English Dialects

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Znex
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Re: English Dialects

Post by Znex » Sat 12 May 2018, 09:26

Imralu wrote:
Sat 12 May 2018, 03:40
Imralu wrote:
Sun 18 Feb 2018, 01:01
LOT/CLOTH: [ɔ]
GONE: [ɔː] (marginal)

THOUGHT/NORTH/FORCE: [oː], before a vowel [oːɹ]
It's not British English though, which I think is more his point.
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Creyeditor
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Re: English Dialects

Post by Creyeditor » Sat 12 May 2018, 13:39

Rate my English 101 [:D]
Mine probably screams German. One big reason might be that I merge TRAP and DRESS vowels. I just find it really hard to distinguish these. I also sometimes confuse CURE and NURSE vowels. Another problems are low vowels. LOT and CLOTH are both very variable for me, often depending on the person I am speaking to. From time to time I exaggerate the rhotacity of vowels, and of course lettER sometimes makes me slip an /ɐ/ in.

KIT ɪ
DRESS ɛ
TRAP ɛ
LOT ɑ~ɔ~ɐ
STRUT ɐ
FOOT ʊ
BATH a~ɑ~ɛ
CLOTH oː~ɔ
NURSE ɝ
FLEECE iː
FACE ɛi
PALM ɑː
THOUGHT ɔː
GOAT oʊ
GOOSE uː
PRICE ai
CHOICE ɔɪ
MOUTH au
NEAR iːɻ
SQUARE ɛːɻ
START ɑːɻ
NORTH ɔːɻ
FORCE ɔːɻ
CURE juːɻ~ɝ
HappY i
LettER ə˞ ~ ɐ
CommA ə~ɐ
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Salmoneus
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Re: English Dialects

Post by Salmoneus » Sat 12 May 2018, 14:27

Imralu wrote:
Sat 12 May 2018, 03:40
Salmoneus wrote:
Fri 11 May 2018, 23:27
Egerius wrote:
Fri 11 May 2018, 20:07
LOT/CLOTH [ɒ ~ ɔ]
NORTH/FORCE/THOUGHT [ɔː ~ oː]
LOT /O/ - non-native. Although at first, this might sound like a lot/cloth split - but that would also suggest European, because the lot/cloth split is something that's dying out in native British English, but that still gets emulated by conservative foreign education systems. I appreciate you aren't actually splitting, but since I don't have an intuitive sense of the split myself, as soon as I hear a few "orfs" and "gorns", I'm going to think you're either a cousin of the queen, or a German...
THOUGHT /o:/ - big one for me! /O:/ is quite low - if it raises, I'm liable to interpret it as /oU/. Raising in CHOICE is less egregious because there's no phonemic confusion possible, but it still sounds non-native.
Imralu wrote:
Sun 18 Feb 2018, 01:01
LOT/CLOTH: [ɔ]
GONE: [ɔː] (marginal)

THOUGHT/NORTH/FORCE: [oː], before a vowel [oːɹ]
Well, Australian is basically non-native really, isn't it?

But seriously, there's a whole bunch of Australian things that, if I heard them anywhere outside of the context of a specifically southern hemisphere accent, I'd assume were non-native. Certainly when they were paired with otherwise SSBE features.

[thought? really? I can easily imagine an Australian saying 'lort' or 'gorn'... but I can't imagine them saying 'low' for 'law' or 'so' for 'saw'. I'm not saying you're wrong, obviously, but unless you've got a REALLY strong and weird accent, I think you must mean something different by /o/ than what I think of that as meaning...]
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Znex
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Re: English Dialects

Post by Znex » Sat 12 May 2018, 14:47

Basically what happens in AuE:

/ʌ/ > [ɐ]
/ɑː/ > [ɐː]
/ɒ/ > [ɔ~ɞ]
/ɔ(r)/ > [oː]
/oʊ/ > [əʉ]
/u/ > [ʉː]

Hence something like:
cup /kʌp/ > [kʰɐp̚]
carp /kɑp/ > [kʰɐːp̚]
cop /kɒp/ > [kʰɔp̚]
corpse /kɔrps/ > [kʰoːps]
cope /koʊp/ > [kʰəʉp̚]
coop /kup/ > [kʰʉːp̚]
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Sumelic
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Re: English Dialects

Post by Sumelic » Sun 13 May 2018, 08:09

Salmoneus wrote:
Sat 12 May 2018, 14:27
Imralu wrote:
Sat 12 May 2018, 03:40
Salmoneus wrote:
Fri 11 May 2018, 23:27
Egerius wrote:
Fri 11 May 2018, 20:07
LOT/CLOTH [ɒ ~ ɔ]
NORTH/FORCE/THOUGHT [ɔː ~ oː]
LOT /O/ - non-native. Although at first, this might sound like a lot/cloth split - but that would also suggest European, because the lot/cloth split is something that's dying out in native British English, but that still gets emulated by conservative foreign education systems. I appreciate you aren't actually splitting, but since I don't have an intuitive sense of the split myself, as soon as I hear a few "orfs" and "gorns", I'm going to think you're either a cousin of the queen, or a German...
THOUGHT /o:/ - big one for me! /O:/ is quite low - if it raises, I'm liable to interpret it as /oU/. Raising in CHOICE is less egregious because there's no phonemic confusion possible, but it still sounds non-native.
Imralu wrote:
Sun 18 Feb 2018, 01:01
LOT/CLOTH: [ɔ]
GONE: [ɔː] (marginal)

THOUGHT/NORTH/FORCE: [oː], before a vowel [oːɹ]
Well, Australian is basically non-native really, isn't it?

But seriously, there's a whole bunch of Australian things that, if I heard them anywhere outside of the context of a specifically southern hemisphere accent, I'd assume were non-native. Certainly when they were paired with otherwise SSBE features.

[thought? really? I can easily imagine an Australian saying 'lort' or 'gorn'... but I can't imagine them saying 'low' for 'law' or 'so' for 'saw'. I'm not saying you're wrong, obviously, but unless you've got a REALLY strong and weird accent, I think you must mean something different by /o/ than what I think of that as meaning...]
Geoff Lindsey says that "thought" can actually approach IPA cardinal [o] (the 7th cardinal vowel) in "standard southern British" accents. Since "goat" is something like [əʊ] in many British accents, I don't think it would be particularly close to the 7th cardinal vowel. It makes some sense to me, since my NORTH/FORCE vowel is something like [o˞], and THOUGHT/NORTH/FORCE in British accents sounds to me like it has a similar quality (non-rhotic, obviously) to my NORTH/FORCE.
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Re: English Dialects

Post by Ælfwine » Thu 17 May 2018, 02:50

Might as well give this a shot.

KIT ɪ
DRESS ɛ
TRAP æ
LOT ä
STRUT ʌ (or even ə)
FOOT ʊ
BATH æː
CLOTH ɑː
NURSE ə˞
FLEECE ɪi ~ i
FACE eɪ
PALM äː
THOUGHT ɑ
GOAT oʊ (first element can be slightly unrounded)
GOOSE ʉː (can be diphthongized like ɨʉ)
PRICE ɐi
CHOICE ɔi~oi
MOUTH æʉ
NEAR iɚ
SQUARE eɚ
START ɑɚ
NORTH oɚ
FORCE oɚ
CURE jɚ
HappY i
LettER ə˞
CommA ə

Of course, I can totally be selecting the wrong IPA symbols for the things I hear in my head. Here's what I do know:

/u/ is fairly fronted, approaching /ʉ/
The difference between [ɚ] and say [ɝ] are very difficult to tell for me. I could be using [ɝ] when I mean [ɚ] or vice versa, so I've generalized them all as /ɚ/ in my idiolect.
Some vowels can be diphthongized. Stressed /i/ for example can be diphthongized to /ɪi/ (common from what I hear). Alternatively, /oɚ/ and /ɑɚ/ can be monophthongized to /o̴ ɑ̴/.
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Re: English Dialects

Post by qwed117 » Fri 18 May 2018, 01:08

KIT ɪ
DRESS ɛ
TRAP æ
LOT ɑ ~ CLOTH* ɑː
STRUT ə
FOOT ɯ̹̽
BATH æ
NURSE ɝː
FLEECE i
FACE ɛɪ̯ ~ eɪ
PALM ɑ ~ THOUGHT* ɑː
GOAT ɤ̞ʊ
GOOSE u
PRICE aɪ̯
CHOICE o̞ɪ̯
MOUTH aʊ
NEAR iɝ ~ iːɝ
SQUARE ɛɝ ~ eɝ
START äɻ̬
NORTH ɔɻ̬~oɻ̬ ~ FORCE* oːɻ̬
CURE ɝː
HappY iˑ
LettER ɝ
CommA ʌ

Yikes...

*length not contrastive/present all the time.
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Porphyrogenitos
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Re: English Dialects

Post by Porphyrogenitos » Fri 18 May 2018, 07:00

Well, here's mine

KIT ɪ
DRESS ɛ
TRAP æ
LOT ɑ
STRUT ʌ (it's definitely not actually [ʌ] but it's not quite [ə] either)
FOOT ʊ
BATH æ
CLOTH ɑ
NURSE ɚ
FLEECE i
FACE eɪ
PALM ɑ (though historical /l/ has been reinserted into most of the words with orthographic l)
THOUGHT ɑ
GOAT oʊ
GOOSE ʉu
PRICE (split between RIDER aɪ and WRITER əɪ)
CHOICE ɔɪ
MOUTH aʊ
NEAR i˞
SQUARE ɛ˞
START ɑ˞
NORTH o˞
FORCE o˞
CURE jɚ
HappY i
LettER ə˞
CommA ə
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Re: English Dialects

Post by opipik » Sat 01 Sep 2018, 09:56

Here are my vowels:
Spoiler:
KIT ɪ
DRESS ɛ
TRAP æ if I try, otherwise ɛ
LOT ɑ
STRUT ɐ
FOOT ʊ
BATH ɑː or æ, depends if I try
CLOTH ɔ? ɑ? I don't know.
NURSE ɚ
FLEECE iː
FACE ɛɪ
PALM ɑː or ɑl
THOUGHT ɔː, can't bring myself to merge lot/cloth and thought
GOAT ɔʊ
GOOSE ʉː (might be ʉu?)
PRICE aɪ
CHOICE ɔɪ
MOUTH aʊ
NEAR iˑɻ
SQUARE ɛˑɻ? ɘ˞ː?
START ɑˑɻ
NORTH ɔɻ
FORCE ɔˑɻ
CURE jɚˑ
HappY ɪ
CommA ə
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elemtilas
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Re: English Dialects

Post by elemtilas » Tue 04 Sep 2018, 05:21

KIT ɪ
DRESS ɛ
TRAP æ
LOT ä
STRUT ʌ
FOOT ɵ
BATH æ
CLOTH ä
NURSE ɹ
FLEECE i
FACE e
PALM ä (l-coloured, but not sure how to notate that)
THOUGHT ä
GOAT o
GOOSE u
PRICE əi
CHOICE ʊi
MOUTH æu
NEAR i˞ ᶦɹ (disyllabic)
SQUARE e ᶦɹ (disyllabic)
START ˞a˞ ((nearly) disyllabic)
NORTH oɹ (disyllabic)
FORCE oɹ (disyllabic)
CURE ᶦuɹ (disyllabic)
HappY i
LettER ɹ
CommA ʌ
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Re: English Dialects

Post by Khemehekis » Tue 04 Sep 2018, 05:44

How I pronounce the vowels:

KIT ɪ
DRESS ɛ
TRAP æ
LOT ɑ
STRUT ʌ
FOOT ʊ
BATH a
CLOTH ɑ
NURSE ɝ
FLEECE i
FACE ei
PALM ɑ
THOUGHT ɑ
GOAT ou
GOOSE u
PRICE ai
CHOICE ɔi
MOUTH au
NEAR iɹ
SQUARE æɹ
START ɑɹ
NORTH ɔɹ
FORCE ɔɹ
CURE ʊɹ
happY i
lettER ɚ
commA ə
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