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PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 16:18 
darkness
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DesEsseintes wrote:
Creyeditor wrote:
That's the rank. You can call him qwed.

[xD]

I thought he was thanking the Mongolian language and I could not figure out why!


[+1]

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PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 20:07 
mongolian
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shimobaatar wrote:
DesEsseintes wrote:
Creyeditor wrote:
That's the rank. You can call him qwed.

[xD]

I thought he was thanking the Mongolian language and I could not figure out why!


[+1]
*pillages your village and takes over your empire*

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PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 21:20 
moderator
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DesEsseintes wrote:
I thought he was thanking the Mongolian language and I could not figure out why!
You know you're a conlanger when …


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PostPosted: Mon 11 Sep 2017, 21:27 
mayan
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qwed117 wrote:
shimobaatar wrote:
DesEsseintes wrote:
Creyeditor wrote:
That's the rank. You can call him qwed.

[xD]

I thought he was thanking the Mongolian language and I could not figure out why!


[+1]
*pillages your village and takes over your empire*


He is still young, he will yet learn.

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PostPosted: Mon 25 Sep 2017, 01:23 
greek
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Why do some Eastern Romance (like Istriot) have -ei as their plural? (as opposed to just -i)

Also, I'm trying to look up toponyms around Lake Batalon in Hungary to give me clues on sound shifts in Pannonian Romance. Do any of these names look like they could derive from Latin?

Siófok
Tihany
Zamárdi
Marcali
Fonyód
Szigliget
Tapolca

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Last edited by Ælfwine on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 02:20, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon 25 Sep 2017, 01:35 
darkness
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Ælfwine wrote:
Also, I'm trying to look up toponyms around Lake Batalon in Hungary to give me clues on sound shifts in Pannonian Romance. Do any of these names look like they could derive from Latin?

Siófok
Tihany
Zamárdi
Marcali
Fonyód
Szigliget
Tapolca


Are you asking for particular Latin words these names could come from, or are you just asking if any of them sound like they potentially could be derived from Latin? If it's the latter, "Marcali", "Tapolca", and "Zamárdi" sound particularly Latinate to me, but of course, any of these could theoretically be derived from Latin with the right sound changes.

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PostPosted: Mon 25 Sep 2017, 02:19 
greek
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shimobaatar wrote:
Ælfwine wrote:
Also, I'm trying to look up toponyms around Lake Batalon in Hungary to give me clues on sound shifts in Pannonian Romance. Do any of these names look like they could derive from Latin?

Siófok
Tihany
Zamárdi
Marcali
Fonyód
Szigliget
Tapolca


Are you asking for particular Latin words these names could come from, or are you just asking if any of them sound like they potentially could be derived from Latin? If it's the latter, "Marcali", "Tapolca", and "Zamárdi" sound particularly Latinate to me, but of course, any of these could theoretically be derived from Latin with the right sound changes.


Former if possible, latter if not.

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PostPosted: Mon 25 Sep 2017, 12:07 
MVP
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Ælfwine wrote:
Why do some Eastern Romance (like Istriot) have -ei as their plural? (as opposed to just -i)

Also, I'm trying to look up toponyms around Lake Batalon in Hungary to give me clues on sound shifts in Pannonian Romance. Do any of these names look like they could derive from Latin?

Siófok
Tihany
Zamárdi
Marcali
Fonyód
Szigliget
Tapolca


Have you talked to Dewrad about this? His romlang is set around Lake Balaton, iirc. Iirc it's more based on Dalmatian (etc) than on historical Pannonian Romance (which may not even have been an Eastern Romance language, historically), but if there's anything concrete known about the latter he probably knows about it.

EDIT: he's not around much, and he may be too busy to help you much, but it would seem worth asking. He might at least point you in the right direction.


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PostPosted: Mon 25 Sep 2017, 14:04 
mongolian
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Ælfwine wrote:
Why do some Eastern Romance (like Istriot) have -ei as their plural? (as opposed to just i)

Probably dissimilation from a prior vowel if it is masculine and from the second declension, or it might be from -ēs if from the 3rd declension

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PostPosted: Sat 30 Sep 2017, 01:26 
greek
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qwed117 wrote:
Ælfwine wrote:
Why do some Eastern Romance (like Istriot) have -ei as their plural? (as opposed to just i)

Probably dissimilation from a prior vowel if it is masculine and from the second declension, or it might be from -ēs if from the 3rd declension


The latter seems plausible.

Salmoneus wrote:
Ælfwine wrote:
Why do some Eastern Romance (like Istriot) have -ei as their plural? (as opposed to just -i)

Also, I'm trying to look up toponyms around Lake Batalon in Hungary to give me clues on sound shifts in Pannonian Romance. Do any of these names look like they could derive from Latin?

Siófok
Tihany
Zamárdi
Marcali
Fonyód
Szigliget
Tapolca


Have you talked to Dewrad about this? His romlang is set around Lake Balaton, iirc. Iirc it's more based on Dalmatian (etc) than on historical Pannonian Romance (which may not even have been an Eastern Romance language, historically), but if there's anything concrete known about the latter he probably knows about it.

EDIT: he's not around much, and he may be too busy to help you much, but it would seem worth asking. He might at least point you in the right direction.


I have not, but I will.

I took a look at Dravian. There a few things I like about it, but there are many things I dislike. For the most part the language seems too Italianesque for a lack of a better word, and even though I get he focused on Dalmatian as his main influence, I would think there would be a bit more Romanian influence, even if the language was not historically Eastern Romance.

I want to ask him specifically about vowel changes, as currently my vowel shifts from Latin are mostly made up. As soon as I get accepted to the ZBB I'll carry along with that.

The good thing about Pannonian is the fact that it is so mysterious gives me a bit of creative freedom. The bad thing about it is that sometimes too much freedom can be a bad thing.

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PostPosted: Sun 01 Oct 2017, 21:47 
roman
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Does anyone know what the current estimates are for the number of German speakers in America during its pre-ww1 height?


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PostPosted: Sun 01 Oct 2017, 22:42 
mongolian
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Wikipedia suggests up to 2.8 million, but it only counts foreign born Germans, suggesting the number maybe significantly higher. This is however the beginning time period of the American schooling system, so I'd imagine a good amount of their children were not speaking German, (maybe a third?) If each pair had 3 children, that'd put the rough estimate at nearly 50% higher.

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PostPosted: Sun 01 Oct 2017, 23:01 
roman
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qwed117 wrote:
Wikipedia suggests up to 2.8 million, but it only counts foreign born Germans, suggesting the number maybe significantly higher. This is however the beginning time period of the American schooling system, so I'd imagine a good amount of their children were not speaking German, (maybe a third?) If each pair had 3 children, that'd put the rough estimate at nearly 50% higher.

Do you know what year that was by chance? I'm curious what percentage of the total population that could be.


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PostPosted: Mon 02 Oct 2017, 05:09 
cuneiform
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When did Standard German become non-rhotic?

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PostPosted: Mon 02 Oct 2017, 05:16 
mongolian
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All4Ɇn wrote:
qwed117 wrote:
Wikipedia suggests up to 2.8 million, but it only counts foreign born Germans, suggesting the number maybe significantly higher. This is however the beginning time period of the American schooling system, so I'd imagine a good amount of their children were not speaking German, (maybe a third?) If each pair had 3 children, that'd put the rough estimate at nearly 50% higher.

Do you know what year that was by chance? I'm curious what percentage of the total population that could be.

1910 census.

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PostPosted: Mon 02 Oct 2017, 07:24 
roman
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qwed117 wrote:
1910 census.

Hmm so about 3-6%


Ashtăr Balynestjăr wrote:
When did Standard German become non-rhotic?

According Renata Szczepaniak, around the end of the 10th century


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PostPosted: Mon 02 Oct 2017, 08:06 
cuneiform
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All4Ɇn wrote:
Ashtăr Balynestjăr wrote:
When did Standard German become non-rhotic?

According Renata Szczepaniak, around the end of the 10th century

Are you implying that Middle High German was non-rhotic? Karl Lepsius and Alexander Ellis both described final /r/ in German as a consonant well into the 19th century, and Japanese transcriptions of German conventionally use ル ru to transcribe final German /r/, whereas ア a is more common when transcribing English. Then again, there is that linking-/r/ in daran, worüber, etc., so maybe the German consonantal /r/ was artificially imposed later on.

Edit: That’s not a linking-/r/, but a reflex of PGmc *r in *þar and *hwar, so that evidence is out. Perhaps that first round of rhotic-dropping was responsible for da and wo... I’d really like to read Szczepaniak’s arguments.

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PostPosted: Mon 02 Oct 2017, 13:06 
mongolian
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Don't forget that there have been two competing pronunciation standards for German for decades. I think Viëtor might have already been criticizing rhoticity in Sieb's standard German.

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PostPosted: Wed 04 Oct 2017, 12:44 
roman
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How long does it usually take for Children to acquire tone in tonal language? I was always under the impression that it may take several years, but recently I watched a Chinese children TV series and was surprised that even the 3somewhat-year-olds were already (apparently) distinghuishing tone.

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PostPosted: Wed 04 Oct 2017, 13:51 
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Iyionaku wrote:
How long does it usually take for children to acquire tone in tonal language? I was always under the impression that it may take several years, but recently I watched a Chinese children TV series and was surprised that even the 3somewhat-year-olds were already (apparently) distinguishing tone.
What led you to this impression?

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