(L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

A forum for discussing linguistics or just languages in general.
shimobaatar
darkness
darkness
Posts: 8684
Joined: Fri 12 Jul 2013, 22:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by shimobaatar » Mon 11 Sep 2017, 16:18

DesEsseintes wrote:
Creyeditor wrote:That's the rank. You can call him qwed.
[xD]

I thought he was thanking the Mongolian language and I could not figure out why!
[+1]
User avatar
qwed117
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4277
Joined: Thu 20 Nov 2014, 02:27

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by qwed117 » Mon 11 Sep 2017, 20:07

shimobaatar wrote:
DesEsseintes wrote:
Creyeditor wrote:That's the rank. You can call him qwed.
[xD]

I thought he was thanking the Mongolian language and I could not figure out why!
[+1]
*pillages your village and takes over your empire*
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.
User avatar
Dormouse559
moderator
moderator
Posts: 2370
Joined: Sat 10 Nov 2012, 20:52
Location: California

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Dormouse559 » Mon 11 Sep 2017, 21:20

DesEsseintes wrote:I thought he was thanking the Mongolian language and I could not figure out why!
You know you're a conlanger when …
User avatar
Frislander
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2056
Joined: Sat 14 May 2016, 17:47
Location: The North

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Frislander » Mon 11 Sep 2017, 21:27

qwed117 wrote:
shimobaatar wrote:
DesEsseintes wrote:
Creyeditor wrote:That's the rank. You can call him qwed.
[xD]

I thought he was thanking the Mongolian language and I could not figure out why!
[+1]
*pillages your village and takes over your empire*
He is still young, he will yet learn.
User avatar
Ælfwine
greek
greek
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon 21 Sep 2015, 00:28
Location: Canada

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ælfwine » Mon 25 Sep 2017, 01:23

Why do some Eastern Romance (like Istriot) have -ei as their plural? (as opposed to just -i)

Also, I'm trying to look up toponyms around Lake Batalon in Hungary to give me clues on sound shifts in Pannonian Romance. Do any of these names look like they could derive from Latin?

Siófok
Tihany
Zamárdi
Marcali
Fonyód
Szigliget
Tapolca
Last edited by Ælfwine on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 02:20, edited 1 time in total.
The worst thing you can do to an idea is forget about it.
shimobaatar
darkness
darkness
Posts: 8684
Joined: Fri 12 Jul 2013, 22:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by shimobaatar » Mon 25 Sep 2017, 01:35

Ælfwine wrote:Also, I'm trying to look up toponyms around Lake Batalon in Hungary to give me clues on sound shifts in Pannonian Romance. Do any of these names look like they could derive from Latin?

Siófok
Tihany
Zamárdi
Marcali
Fonyód
Szigliget
Tapolca
Are you asking for particular Latin words these names could come from, or are you just asking if any of them sound like they potentially could be derived from Latin? If it's the latter, "Marcali", "Tapolca", and "Zamárdi" sound particularly Latinate to me, but of course, any of these could theoretically be derived from Latin with the right sound changes.
User avatar
Ælfwine
greek
greek
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon 21 Sep 2015, 00:28
Location: Canada

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ælfwine » Mon 25 Sep 2017, 02:19

shimobaatar wrote:
Ælfwine wrote:Also, I'm trying to look up toponyms around Lake Batalon in Hungary to give me clues on sound shifts in Pannonian Romance. Do any of these names look like they could derive from Latin?

Siófok
Tihany
Zamárdi
Marcali
Fonyód
Szigliget
Tapolca
Are you asking for particular Latin words these names could come from, or are you just asking if any of them sound like they potentially could be derived from Latin? If it's the latter, "Marcali", "Tapolca", and "Zamárdi" sound particularly Latinate to me, but of course, any of these could theoretically be derived from Latin with the right sound changes.
Former if possible, latter if not.
The worst thing you can do to an idea is forget about it.
Salmoneus
MVP
MVP
Posts: 1225
Joined: Mon 19 Sep 2011, 18:37

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Salmoneus » Mon 25 Sep 2017, 12:07

Ælfwine wrote:Why do some Eastern Romance (like Istriot) have -ei as their plural? (as opposed to just -i)

Also, I'm trying to look up toponyms around Lake Batalon in Hungary to give me clues on sound shifts in Pannonian Romance. Do any of these names look like they could derive from Latin?

Siófok
Tihany
Zamárdi
Marcali
Fonyód
Szigliget
Tapolca
Have you talked to Dewrad about this? His romlang is set around Lake Balaton, iirc. Iirc it's more based on Dalmatian (etc) than on historical Pannonian Romance (which may not even have been an Eastern Romance language, historically), but if there's anything concrete known about the latter he probably knows about it.

EDIT: he's not around much, and he may be too busy to help you much, but it would seem worth asking. He might at least point you in the right direction.
User avatar
qwed117
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4277
Joined: Thu 20 Nov 2014, 02:27

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by qwed117 » Mon 25 Sep 2017, 14:04

Ælfwine wrote:Why do some Eastern Romance (like Istriot) have -ei as their plural? (as opposed to just i)
Probably dissimilation from a prior vowel if it is masculine and from the second declension, or it might be from -ēs if from the 3rd declension
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.
User avatar
Ælfwine
greek
greek
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon 21 Sep 2015, 00:28
Location: Canada

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ælfwine » Sat 30 Sep 2017, 01:26

qwed117 wrote:
Ælfwine wrote:Why do some Eastern Romance (like Istriot) have -ei as their plural? (as opposed to just i)
Probably dissimilation from a prior vowel if it is masculine and from the second declension, or it might be from -ēs if from the 3rd declension
The latter seems plausible.
Salmoneus wrote:
Ælfwine wrote:Why do some Eastern Romance (like Istriot) have -ei as their plural? (as opposed to just -i)

Also, I'm trying to look up toponyms around Lake Batalon in Hungary to give me clues on sound shifts in Pannonian Romance. Do any of these names look like they could derive from Latin?

Siófok
Tihany
Zamárdi
Marcali
Fonyód
Szigliget
Tapolca
Have you talked to Dewrad about this? His romlang is set around Lake Balaton, iirc. Iirc it's more based on Dalmatian (etc) than on historical Pannonian Romance (which may not even have been an Eastern Romance language, historically), but if there's anything concrete known about the latter he probably knows about it.

EDIT: he's not around much, and he may be too busy to help you much, but it would seem worth asking. He might at least point you in the right direction.
I have not, but I will.

I took a look at Dravian. There a few things I like about it, but there are many things I dislike. For the most part the language seems too Italianesque for a lack of a better word, and even though I get he focused on Dalmatian as his main influence, I would think there would be a bit more Romanian influence, even if the language was not historically Eastern Romance.

I want to ask him specifically about vowel changes, as currently my vowel shifts from Latin are mostly made up. As soon as I get accepted to the ZBB I'll carry along with that.

The good thing about Pannonian is the fact that it is so mysterious gives me a bit of creative freedom. The bad thing about it is that sometimes too much freedom can be a bad thing.
The worst thing you can do to an idea is forget about it.
User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1536
Joined: Sat 01 Mar 2014, 07:19

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by All4Ɇn » Sun 01 Oct 2017, 21:47

Does anyone know what the current estimates are for the number of German speakers in America during its pre-ww1 height?
User avatar
qwed117
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4277
Joined: Thu 20 Nov 2014, 02:27

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by qwed117 » Sun 01 Oct 2017, 22:42

Wikipedia suggests up to 2.8 million, but it only counts foreign born Germans, suggesting the number maybe significantly higher. This is however the beginning time period of the American schooling system, so I'd imagine a good amount of their children were not speaking German, (maybe a third?) If each pair had 3 children, that'd put the rough estimate at nearly 50% higher.
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.
User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1536
Joined: Sat 01 Mar 2014, 07:19

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by All4Ɇn » Sun 01 Oct 2017, 23:01

qwed117 wrote:Wikipedia suggests up to 2.8 million, but it only counts foreign born Germans, suggesting the number maybe significantly higher. This is however the beginning time period of the American schooling system, so I'd imagine a good amount of their children were not speaking German, (maybe a third?) If each pair had 3 children, that'd put the rough estimate at nearly 50% higher.
Do you know what year that was by chance? I'm curious what percentage of the total population that could be.
Ashtăr Balynestjăr
sinic
sinic
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed 18 Jan 2017, 07:17

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ashtăr Balynestjăr » Mon 02 Oct 2017, 05:09

When did Standard German become non-rhotic?
[ˈaʃt̪əɹ ˈbalɨˌnɛsʲtʲəɹ]
User avatar
qwed117
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4277
Joined: Thu 20 Nov 2014, 02:27

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by qwed117 » Mon 02 Oct 2017, 05:16

All4Ɇn wrote:
qwed117 wrote:Wikipedia suggests up to 2.8 million, but it only counts foreign born Germans, suggesting the number maybe significantly higher. This is however the beginning time period of the American schooling system, so I'd imagine a good amount of their children were not speaking German, (maybe a third?) If each pair had 3 children, that'd put the rough estimate at nearly 50% higher.
Do you know what year that was by chance? I'm curious what percentage of the total population that could be.
1910 census.
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.
User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1536
Joined: Sat 01 Mar 2014, 07:19

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by All4Ɇn » Mon 02 Oct 2017, 07:24

qwed117 wrote:1910 census.
Hmm so about 3-6%

Ashtăr Balynestjăr wrote:When did Standard German become non-rhotic?
According Renata Szczepaniak, around the end of the 10th century
Ashtăr Balynestjăr
sinic
sinic
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed 18 Jan 2017, 07:17

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ashtăr Balynestjăr » Mon 02 Oct 2017, 08:06

All4Ɇn wrote:
Ashtăr Balynestjăr wrote:When did Standard German become non-rhotic?
According Renata Szczepaniak, around the end of the 10th century
Are you implying that Middle High German was non-rhotic? Karl Lepsius and Alexander Ellis both described final /r/ in German as a consonant well into the 19th century, and Japanese transcriptions of German conventionally use ル ru to transcribe final German /r/, whereas ア a is more common when transcribing English. Then again, there is that linking-/r/ in daran, worüber, etc., so maybe the German consonantal /r/ was artificially imposed later on.

Edit: That’s not a linking-/r/, but a reflex of PGmc *r in *þar and *hwar, so that evidence is out. Perhaps that first round of rhotic-dropping was responsible for da and wo... I’d really like to read Szczepaniak’s arguments.
[ˈaʃt̪əɹ ˈbalɨˌnɛsʲtʲəɹ]
User avatar
Creyeditor
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 3887
Joined: Tue 14 Aug 2012, 18:32

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Creyeditor » Mon 02 Oct 2017, 13:06

Don't forget that there have been two competing pronunciation standards for German for decades. I think Viëtor might have already been criticizing rhoticity in Sieb's standard German.
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 :deu: 2 :eng: 3 :fra: 4 :esp: 4 :ind:
:con: Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
[<3] Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics [<3]
Iyionaku
roman
roman
Posts: 1414
Joined: Sun 25 May 2014, 13:17

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Iyionaku » Wed 04 Oct 2017, 12:44

How long does it usually take for Children to acquire tone in tonal language? I was always under the impression that it may take several years, but recently I watched a Chinese children TV series and was surprised that even the 3somewhat-year-olds were already (apparently) distinghuishing tone.
Heaven and Earth, but I feel the color of the cake when you keep the Victoria.
I had a mantra on the moss and I had to go to bed.


Oh, and there is a [ɕ] in my name!
User avatar
Lao Kou
korean
korean
Posts: 5471
Joined: Sun 25 Nov 2012, 10:39
Location: 蘇州/苏州

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lao Kou » Wed 04 Oct 2017, 13:51

Iyionaku wrote:How long does it usually take for children to acquire tone in tonal language? I was always under the impression that it may take several years, but recently I watched a Chinese children TV series and was surprised that even the 3somewhat-year-olds were already (apparently) distinguishing tone.
What led you to this impression?
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名
Post Reply