(L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

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Salmoneus
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Salmoneus » Sun 10 Jun 2018, 11:25

If you search for metaphony (the cunning codeword Romance linguists use so that specialists in non-Romance can't see what they're doing and realise that Romance is actually sort of not magically different from other families...), you'll find a bunch of stuff.

Essentially, vulgar latin(s) had three processes - vowel lengthening, metaphony and diphthongisation - that interacted in complicated ways, but it's only when you look at the details of the italian dialects (and other areas that have resisted standardisation, like Romansch) that you see how varied the realisations could be.
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ælfwine » Mon 11 Jun 2018, 04:37

Zekoslav wrote:
Sun 10 Jun 2018, 09:44
Ælfwine wrote:
Sun 10 Jun 2018, 07:40
Salmoneus wrote:
Fri 08 Jun 2018, 12:20
Ælfwine wrote:
Fri 04 May 2018, 00:53
Also, what umlaut are we speaking of here? I know that /m/ might have preserved the height for a while longer, as Old Spanish evidence suggests.
Vulgar Latin appears to have had umlaut, seen in the mid-low vowels, both front and back. These were raised (or diphthongised) in umlauting environments. The dialects - particularly in Italy where this seems to be massively varied - disagree on the exact environments - either just before -i or -j, or also before -um, or also before -u generally. And the outcomes also obviously differ.
Interesting. Do you happen to know of any papers on this specific topic?
I can't remember any papers specifically about Italian, but there's this paper on metaphony (the usual term for umlaut in Romance linguistics) in Spanish and Catalan. It's concerned mostly about the development of verbs, but there is a section where general rules of sound change are laid out. I can try to find more papers later.
Very interesting. Thank you for this.
Salmoneus wrote:
Sun 10 Jun 2018, 11:25
If you search for metaphony (the cunning codeword Romance linguists use so that specialists in non-Romance can't see what they're doing and realise that Romance is actually sort of not magically different from other families...), you'll find a bunch of stuff.

Essentially, vulgar latin(s) had three processes - vowel lengthening, metaphony and diphthongisation - that interacted in complicated ways, but it's only when you look at the details of the italian dialects (and other areas that have resisted standardisation, like Romansch) that you see how varied the realisations could be.
Dewrad is giving me a pdf on the Italian dialects. I'm aware of some crazy stuff in i.e. Bulgnais and Vastese but a more comprehensive analysis was appreciated.
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Shemtov » Mon 18 Jun 2018, 17:40

Does anybody know where the Polish family name Chaś comes from? And was it carried by any Polish Jews?
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Re: Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Keola_Kent » Tue 19 Jun 2018, 21:51

Maximillian wrote:
Tue 14 Sep 2010, 19:13
Is there an example of a language that had definite article, but it fell out of use?
Syriac. The alef at the end of words represented a definite article, as it is in most Aramaic dialects, but using the word with a definite article became so common that the sense of definiteness was lost.
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Keola_Kent » Tue 19 Jun 2018, 21:54

Is Linguistics and Natlangs the correct place to post about an alternate time-line conscript for a natlang?
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by shimobaatar » Tue 19 Jun 2018, 21:56

Keola_Kent wrote:
Tue 19 Jun 2018, 21:54
Is Linguistics and Natlangs the correct place to post about an alternate time-line conscript for a natlang?
This thread may be kind of what you're looking for?

If you want to make your own thread, though, then yeah, I'd say that this is the right section of the board.
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Aszev » Wed 20 Jun 2018, 11:57

Shemtov wrote:
Mon 18 Jun 2018, 17:40
Does anybody know where the Polish family name Chaś comes from? And was it carried by any Polish Jews?
According to this site:
Chaś - od hasać ‘skakać’ lub od niemieckiej nazwy osobowej Has.
Google translates this as: "from the password 'jump' or from the German personal name Has." But you'd probably want a Polish speaker to check that first part...

(It seems Chaś can also be a diminutive of the first name Michał, but I suspect that's mere coincidence in this case)
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by All4Ɇn » Mon 16 Jul 2018, 23:37

Apparently in Northern and Southern Vietnamese, the word for that is "đó", while in Central Vietnam it is "tê". Are there any known historical reasons for this development? It seems very strange to me for a dialect to differ that extremely from the dialects both above and below it without there being something else at play.
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Void » Tue 17 Jul 2018, 09:48

So recently, I've picked up Armenian and had a problem with the pronunciation of ր - almost every single academic resource gives it as /ɾ/, yet that's not what I hear in many cases. I usually hear some strange variation on /ʒ/ or even /ɹ/ (and not from the speakers of different Armenian dialects, but Eastern itself). Does anyone know of this phenomenon, and how one is truly supposed to pronounce ր?
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by sangi39 » Tue 17 Jul 2018, 16:33

As some of you may know "Swaziland" has officially changed its name to "eSwatini" recently, but I can't figure out what's going on with this word. I know that -ni is a locative suffix, and the -swati- refers to, well, the Swazi people and language, but I can't seem to find out what the e- is. I'd assumed, drawing from Zulu, that it was the locative form of a Class 5 prefix i-, but apparently this prefix is li- in Swazi. Countries in Swazi do still take an i- prefix, though, as they do in Zulu, and they seem to fall into Class 5 as well, so does anyone have any idea why this might be?

The full name also seems to be "Umbuso weSwatini", but given that the full name of South Africa in Swazi is iRiphabhulikhi yeNingizimu Afrika, I assume the /w/ is like an epenthetic thing.
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Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Creyeditor » Tue 17 Jul 2018, 20:02

sangi39 wrote:
Tue 17 Jul 2018, 16:33
As some of you may know "Swaziland" has officially changed its name to "eSwatini" recently, but I can't figure out what's going on with this word. I know that -ni is a locative suffix, and the -swati- refers to, well, the Swazi people and language, but I can't seem to find out what the e- is. I'd assumed, drawing from Zulu, that it was the locative form of a Class 5 prefix i-, but apparently this prefix is li- in Swazi. Countries in Swazi do still take an i- prefix, though, as they do in Zulu, and they seem to fall into Class 5 as well, so does anyone have any idea why this might be?

The full name also seems to be "Umbuso weSwatini", but given that the full name of South Africa in Swazi is iRiphabhulikhi yeNingizimu Afrika, I assume the /w/ is like an epenthetic thing.
Do you know the glosses of the full name of South Africa? I looked at Thwala's 1996 grammar and it looks as if Proper names have special morphology, which is often a we- or ye- prefix. It is glossed as vocative case, but I am not too sure about that. Similarly borrowed nouns are said to take the i- prefix, maybe that might play a role (because other state names are borrowed and then analogy kicks in?). The claim is also that mid vowels are generally the result of coalescence of /a/ with a high vowel, so maybe there is another a- prefix? a- is definitely the genitive/associative marker in Swati.

tl;dr: my guess:

eSwatini
/a-i-swati-ni/
GEN-NOUNCLASS-Swati-LOC
'of the Swati place'
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