He is...

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Re: He is...

Post by Nate » Thu 30 Oct 2014, 01:14

a.) He is a fisherman.
b.) He is strong.
c.) He is my husband.
d.) He is in my house.

:con: Novoromán

Es'is pecetúr.
/ˈesis peʃeˈtuɾ/

Es'is fore.
/ˈesis ˈfoɾe/

Es'is marisos míos.
/ˈesis maˈɾisos ˈmi.os/

Es'is nello casa mía.
/ˈesis ˈnel.lo ˈkasa ˈmi.a/
English: [tick] Mother tongue, perfect.
Japanese: [:D] 完璧に近づいてるわ!
Spanish: [:)] Bien!
French: [:|] Pas bien, mais pas mal.
German: [:(] Ich brauche Übung...
Mandarin: [:'(] Oh god, somebody help me!
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masako
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Re: He is...

Post by masako » Thu 30 Oct 2014, 23:14

Kala:

ha uatsiko
3SG fish-AG
He is a fisherman.

ha tinua
3SG be.strong
He is strong.

ha ke taya nayo
3SG O husband 1SG.POSS
He is my husband.

ha ke tsaka nayo nahe
3SG O house 1SG.POSS be.inside
He is in my house.
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Re: He is...

Post by nzk13 » Sun 16 Nov 2014, 04:30

:con: Unnamed

bu nunur ru.
bu nun-ur r-u-0
3SG fish-AGENT be-3SG-PRS

He is a fisherman.

bu guc ru.
bu guc r-u-0
3SG strong be-3SG-PRS

He is strong.

bu ani ru.
bu ani-i r-u-0
3SG man-1SG be-3SG-PRS

He is my husband.

bu ca buti fi ru.
bu ca but-i fi r-u-0
3SG TOP house-1SG LOC be-3SG-PRS

He is in my house.
Skribajon mean vi esas lektant, kar amiki.
Native: American English. Knows: some Hebrew/Judaeo-Aramaic, some Ido, bit of La Esperanton, a couple of Yiddish words, and bits and pieces of others.
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Redaun
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Re: He is...

Post by Redaun » Sun 16 Nov 2014, 12:58

Image Glenrién:
Domodako plir shol.
ERG-fish-hunter ABS.3sf NN.be
He is a fisherman.

Amariez plir troj.
ADJ.strong ABS.3sf ADJ.be
He is strong.

Ti lor dozuzon plir shol.
ERG.1pf GEN ERG-husband ABS.3sf NN.be
He is my husband.

Bron tin lor tisendra plir borna.
in DAT.1pf GEN DAT-house ABS.3sf PRP.be
He is in my house.

[info] Glenrién has three different copulas, specifically for describing things with nouns, adjectives, or prepositions. (At least for now.)
I may also be changing how genitive phrases work soon, but at the moment, they use a genitive particle.
[ɹeɪˈdɑːn]

:con: Glenrién (Constant work in progress)
Info HERE and Lexicon HERE.
I have no idea what I'm doing.
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eldin raigmore
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Re: He is...

Post by eldin raigmore » Sun 16 Nov 2014, 17:09

Redaun wrote: [info] Glenrién has three different copulas, specifically for describing things with nouns, adjectives, or prepositions. (At least for now.)
I may also be changing how genitive phrases work soon, but at the moment, they use a genitive particle.
Redaun wrote:... prepositions.
The usual four functions that "to be" sometimes has some of (but are sometimes separated in some languages) are:
* noun in predicate also names noun/pronoun/nominal in subject
* adjective in predicate describes noun/pronoun/nominal in subject
* location in predicate is where noun/pronoun/nominal in subject lies or sits or stands or ... etc.
* subject exists

The example you* provided that has a preposition is a locating clause. The preposition "in" is one of the locational prepositions in English.
*(The original post provided it, I know. The original poster wanted responders to explore locating clauses and the "copula"'s function in them.)
Do you also want this copula to work with other prepositions?
For instance how would you say in Glenrién "I am all about that bass"?

And:
Does Glenrién have any other kinds of adpositions? Postpositions, or inpositions, or circumpositions, or ambipositions? (I think that list is exhaustive, but I may be wrong.)

Redaun wrote:... genitive phrases ... genitive particle.
"Of" is a genitive preposition in English.
And in many languages possession is treated like location.

I'm not criticizing your language, nor am I criticizing your post.
I'm saying that answering this translation thread doesn't tell us (well, doesn't tell me) enough about (for instance) why you translate "He is my husband" with shol instead of borna.
By "why" I mean "how would someone learning the language know which one to use?"
And I'm hoping and asking that you'll tell us -- sometime and somewhere, but not necessarily now (though that would be great!) nor necessarily on this thread.

And, as long as I'm doing this, I should say:
"Genitive" case is the case you put a noun in when you want to use it to modify another noun -- that is to say, when you want to use a noun as an adjective.
And if you have a genitive adposition (like "of" or "de" or "von"), one of the main things it does is create a PPhrase that can be used to modify a noun-phrase.
So, for some languages with cases, some grammarians call any case that can "turn a noun into an adjective" a "genitive case".
(Some of them are more precise, however. If a language has "attributive" and "possessive" and maybe "ablative" cases, then "genitive" is the case for a noun that tells what kind of thing some other noun is; for instance distinguishing "wooden coin" and "leaden coin" from "golden coin".)

So how would you say "He is mine"?
Would you use "troj"?
Because "mine" is an adjective; it's the genitive form of "I" that's used when the modified noun-phrase is a grammatical object (of a verb or a preposition or anything else that can take an object).
Or would you use "shol"? or "borna"?

And do you work from the inspiration that natlang examples give you?
I only know such examples exist -- I don't know what they are.
Maybe some other contributor to this thread knows some?
Maybe there are some early in this thread and I missed them somehow?
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Redaun
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Re: He is...

Post by Redaun » Mon 17 Nov 2014, 02:10

... Apparently, I really don't know what I'm doing, haha. [xD]

What I meant by "preposition" was mostly locating clauses, yes. I hadn't thought of other types of prepositions yet. I think I'd like it to work with any and all prepositions, but I'll have to look at how that works. Saying "locating" rings a lot truer to what I originally had in mind, though.

I also hadn't thought of "subject exists" types of phrases either. I could say something like, "It is itself," and use the noun copula, or maybe, "It is alive/existing," and use the adjective version. Or I could just make another copula. I... will have to look at the options.

Glenrién does only have prepositions, though, as the word order requires them to come before their root. (I really hope I haven't messed up that somehow too, lol.)
Eldin Raigmore wrote:"Of" is a genitive preposition in English.
And in many languages possession is treated like location.
...
"Genitive" case is the case you put a noun in when you want to use it to modify another noun -- that is to say, when you want to use a noun as an adjective.
And if you have a genitive adposition (like "of" or "de" or "von"), one of the main things it does is create a PPhrase that can be used to modify a noun-phrase.
So, for some languages with cases, some grammarians call any case that can "turn a noun into an adjective" a "genitive case".
Apparently I had how genitives work in my head wrong. I was under the impression that the word in the genitive was the word being modified. The right way, though, makes a lot more sense, now that I think about it. I've been planning on redoing how they work already, so I'm glad I realized this now, rather than after I did something stupid. [:P]
Eldin Raigmore wrote:I'm not criticizing your language, nor am I criticizing your post.
...
And do you work from the inspiration that natlang examples give you?
Oh, I know you're just helping and asking questions. I'm open to any input, really. I know I'll need a lot before I'm done!

And I haven't reeeeeally been looking at specific examples. I'll read about something I think sounds fun somewhere, and maybe consider adding it, but usually I just go from scratch. If anything, the example I'm using is English, and then deciding what parts of it I want similar or different in Glenrién. Looking at other languages sounds like a good idea, though. [D:]

I guess I have some homework to do. Thanks so much!
[ɹeɪˈdɑːn]

:con: Glenrién (Constant work in progress)
Info HERE and Lexicon HERE.
I have no idea what I'm doing.
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eldin raigmore
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Re: He is...

Post by eldin raigmore » Mon 17 Nov 2014, 04:15

Redaun wrote:I also hadn't thought of "subject exists" types of phrases either.
English's existence statement sounds an awful lot like it should be a location statement.
"There is a certain tavern …".
But it's said without pointing to the place the tavern is.
If the speaker does point, "There is a tavern!", I guess it is a location statement.
And of course if you can locate something for your addressee you can't help simultaneously revealing that it exists.
French's existence phrase "il y a" ("it there has") and German's existence phrase "es gibt" ("it gives") are different from English's and from each other's.
For one thing, neither of them uses that language's form of their "to be" verb.
Redaun wrote:I was under the impression that the word in the genitive was the word being modified.
There are languages (Semitic languages are the only ones I can think of at the moment) in which the head noun of a "genitive" phrase is marked and the dependent noun isn't.
For those, the head noun is said to be marked in the "construct state", and the dependent noun is left unmarked in the "absolute state".

(Maybe I shouldn't mention too much.
(But look at WALS.info chapters 23, 24, and 25 -- especially chapter 24, "Locus of Marking in Possessive Noun Phrases".
(Just avoid getting so fascinated by cool new stuff that you forget to make progress on your conlang. That's happened to me.)
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atman
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Re: He is...

Post by atman » Wed 19 Nov 2014, 12:29

:con: Atlántika

Watos éktutar yexte.
['wɑtos 'extutar 'jeʃte]
he fisherman be.3SG
He is a fisherman.

Ixcros yexte.
['iʃkros 'jeʃte]
strong-M be.3SG
He is strong.

Adar mèhu yexte.
['adar 'mɛhu 'jeʃte]
man my be.3SG
He is my husband.

Duómuyen mèhu xtète.
['dwomujem 'mɛhu 'ʃtɛte]
house-LOC my stand.3SG
He is in my house.

The -d- in adar is analogical from the plural and the oblique cases; duómuyen is a normal thematic -en locative, pronounced with a final [m] in this case because of sandhi.

And, for the sake of comparison:

:ell: Modern Greek

Αυτός είναι ψαράς.
[afˈtos ˈine psaˈɾas]
he be.3SG fisherman
He is a fisherman.

Είναι ισχυρός.
['ine isçiˈɾos]
be.3SG strong-M
He is strong.

Είναι ο άνδρας μου.
['ine o ˈanðɾas 'mu]
be.3SG ART.M man my
He is my husband.

Είναι στο σπίτι μου.
['ine sto 'spiti 'mu]
be.3SG at house my
He is at my house.
Երկնէր երկին, երկնէր երկիր, երկնէր և ծովն ծիրանի.
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Dezinaa
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Re: He is...

Post by Dezinaa » Sun 23 Nov 2014, 20:13

:con: ’iiƞìm:

Mi’máat túàì.
[bɪʔmaːt˥˧ two˥˩i˩]
mi’má-at tú-àì
fish(v.)-NMLZ be-3SG.ERG
He is a fisherman.

Napakat túàì.
[daβaɣɐt two˥˩i˩]
napak-at tú-àì
strong-NMLZ be-3SG.ERG
He is strong.

Àn atpaƞunu túàì.
[ãn˩ ɐtpãŋunu ɾwo˥˩i˩]
àn atpaƞu=nu tú-àì
1SG husband=GEN be-3SG.ERG
He is my husband.

Àn paànmúnu’ai túàì.
[ɐ̃n˩ bãːn˧˩mũ˥nuʔej ɾwo˥˩i˩]
àn paànmú=nu=’ai tú-àì
1SG house=GEN=LOC be-3SG.ERG
He is in my house.
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Re: He is...

Post by xroox » Thu 04 Dec 2014, 03:40

a.) He is a fisherman.
b.) He is strong.
c.) He is my husband.
d.) He is in my house.

:esp: Español
a) Él es pescador
3.MASC.SING COP-3.SING.PRES fisherman.MASC-SING

b) Él es fuerte
3.MASC.SING COP-3.SING.PRES strong-SING

c) Él es mi marido
3.MASC.SING COP-3.SING.PRES 1SING.POSS.SING husband.MASC-SING

d) Él está en mi casa
3.MASC.SING COP-3.SING.PRES PREP 1SING.POSS.SING house.FEM-SING

:con: Tynaap

a) Taara ta ranruut.
[ˈtaːɾə də ˈrandrut]
taara ta tan-ruu-t
3.MASC.NOM.PROX DEF.MASC catch-fish-NOM
he he that-fishes

b) Irqiryr tar.
[ˈʔiɾkʷɪrɨɾ dəɾ]
i-rqir-r tar
3-STAT-strong-INHER 3.MASC.NOM.PROX
is.strong he

c) Taara sau snuka.
[ˈtaːɾə so znuˈgaː]
3.MASC.NOM.PROX 1SING.POSS.SING.PROX spouse
He my spouse

d) Jas tyys su sau qut.
[jɛs tɨːs su zo guːt͡s]
COP.LOC 3.MASC.NOM.NONVIS DAT 1SING.POSS.SING.PROX house
exists.at he to my house
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Luan
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Re: He is...

Post by Luan » Fri 05 Dec 2014, 11:59

:lat: Lingua Latina

Piscator est.
fisherman be.3SG
He is a fisherman.

Fortis est.
strong.MASC be.3SG
He is strong.

Maritus meus est.
husband my.MASC.NOM be.3SG
He is my husband.

Is est in domo meo.
3SG.MASC be.3SG in house.ABL my.MASC.ABL
He is in my house.

:con: Derrovian

То тунарєт тондарас.
To túnaret tondaras.
3SG.MASC work-3SG fisherman.ESS
He is a fisherman.

ДЬот мидқас.
Dhot midcas.
exist.3SG strong.ESS
He is strong.

То'т пантою.
To't pantoiu.
3SG.MASC=be.3SG husband-1SG.POSS
He is my husband.

То'т и-аммєлтиъу (яммєлтию).
To't i-ammeltîu.
3SG.MASC=be.3SG in=house.DAT-1SG.POSS
He is in my house.
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elemtilas
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Re: He is...

Post by elemtilas » Sat 06 Dec 2014, 02:36

Not an easy exercise. :con: Mentolatian has a verb for being, siyan, but not a copula. Idiomatically, most of these sentences require verbs other than be anyway. Issues of alienable v. inalienable possession cloud matters at times; verb endings have tended to migrate to the pronoun before disappearing; verbal utterances are rarely simple, it being preferred in stead to circumlocute:

1. He is a fisherman.

quamítertrogrardan hi.

qua- -m í- tert rogr- -ardan hi

TOPIC- -LIAISON POSS(inher.)- fish gather- -AGT.NOM. he

Concerning fish-gatherer, he.

A simple zero copula this = that type of statement.

2. He is strong.

anttarcwinnum hehid duremmom.

and- tarcu -inno -um he-hi -(u)d dure- -m(e)n- -om

NONTOPIC- strong -nominaliser -ACC REFL.PRON.- -3s make- -MID/DEPON- -STATE

Regarding strength, he him makes.

Strength is an inalienable property of a living being, and thus can not be equated with that being, so the (non)copula won't work here.

3. He is my husband.

quamídezg cabiro andogdázg evem domyo : qua dazg íotaru yisamuz hiz pademmos.

qua- -m í- -dezg cabiro and- -og- -dázg ev- -em dom- -yo qua dazg í- -otaru yi- -sam- -uz hi- (u)z pada- -men- -os

TOPIC LIAISON POSS(inalien)-house treasure NONTOPIC-within-house PRON-1s inhabit- -ACTIVE TOPIC house POSS(alien)-master DEM.-DEM.-PARTICIP. PRON-3s go-DEPON-IMPERF.

Concerning the Treasure of this House, regarding this house I inhabit; concerning the Master of this House, thating he goes.

This would have been loads easier if the O.P. had stipulated "She is my wife"! -- quamídezg cabiro : ívan -- Concerning this House's Treasure -- mine! Women can not rightfully possess things, least of all their own husbands, so she must be contented to speak in a roundabout fashion of the Master of the House she lives in. One can only suppose (or leastways hope!) that pillow talk Mentolatian can not be quite so distant and formal!

The wife is considered to be a Treasure of one's House, while the husband is both its and her Master: notice that the woman is an inalienable property of the household, while the household itself is an alienable possession of the man. Mentolatian often verbs its pronouns in this way, making here a sort of pro-verbial participle. The pro-verb yisamuz refers back to the man's being Master of his House. Think of that sub-phrase as something like "he goes house-lording".


Note also that, depending on the shift of accent, certain ablaut changes affect the nominal root. This leads to chain ablaut which can lead to bouts of semantic dyspepsia: dazg [texos] (house/roof/covering) ~ jí [dzgí] (houses) > jun (cloth/covering) ~ jní (pieces of cloth) > sinaru (clothing) ~ snáer (articles of clothing) > sneres (a suit of clothing) ~ zrezí (suits of clothing) > erzed (an armoir or wardrobe -- a house for clothing!).

4. He is in my house.

andogdázg ívan hiz astyos.

NONTOPIC-within-house POSS-PRON PRON-3s stand-ACT-IMPF.

Regarding-within-house my he is standing.

One can not be in a house, in the English sense. One can, of course, stand or sit or lie down in a house. To say andogdázg ívan hiz siyos is to say "he is living in my house".

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Re: He is...

Post by spikedee » Sat 06 Dec 2014, 16:34

Since xroot already did Spanish, I reckon I'll give this a shot using the other natlang in which I have delusions of proficiency.

:fra: français

Il est pêcheur.
3SM COP.3SG.PRES.IND fisherman.M.
"He is a fisherman."

Il est fort.
3SM COP.3SG.PRES.IND strong.M
"He is strong."

Il est mon époux.
3SM COP.3SG.PRES.IND 1SG.GEN:M spouse.M
"He is my husband."

Il est dans ma maison.
3SM COP.3SG.PRES.IND in 1SG.GEN:F house.F
"He is in my house."

The French translations of these are so straightforwardly English-like that providing the glosses seems about as silly as providing English "translations" and glosses of English sentences. Still, I'm not a native francophone, so any corrections, suggestions, better translations, etc. would be cool.
native:  :eng: :esp:  |  fluent:  :fra:  |  competent:  :fin: :lfn:  |  passive/read:  :est: :grc: :hun: :ita: :lat: :por:
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Re: He is...

Post by Andlat » Sun 07 Dec 2014, 23:21

:con:Kwëpta
Hína ëas kalatúpon.
3SG be fisher
He is a fisherman.
Kalatúpi means fish. By adding the suffix -on, meaning a person that does something, we get kalatúpon, fisher. If you really wanted to emphasize that he's a fisherman, you could add the male prefix úr and use úrkalatúpon.

Hína ëas väva.
3SG be strong
He is strong.

Hína ëas míno aví puosyö.
3SG be 1SG.POSS romantic.partner permanent.
He is my husband.
Aví is a word that can mean anything from spouse to friend with benefits. When used with the adjective puosyö, it designates a spouse. Again, if you felt the need, you could make it úraví to emphasize his masculinity, but he's a strong fisher, so why do we need to further emphasize it?

Hína ëas prú míno taalökö.
3SG be in 1SG.POSS house.
He is in my house.
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Re: He is...

Post by masako » Mon 08 Dec 2014, 01:25

:lfn:

El es un pexor.
He is a fisherman.

El es forte.
He is strong.

El es la sposo de me.
He is my husband.

El es en la casa de me.
He is in my house.
Jojo87
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Re: He is...

Post by Jojo87 » Tue 23 Dec 2014, 18:19

:con: Maurs:

Irregular verb a for all uses besides the predicate with an adjective, which uses a stative verb construction. The pronoun o is optional.

(O) a icillamareson.
(it) COP fish-hunt-er
He is a fisherman.

(O) stakar.
(it) be.strong-PRES
He is strong.

(O) a maritoma.
(it) COP husband-my
He is my husband.

(O) a ta tatma.
(it) COP LOC house-my
He is in my house.
Currently working on: :con: Maurs mọs
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Usual disclaimer about English not being my native language bla bla bla.
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Re: He is...

Post by Plusquamperfekt » Mon 29 Dec 2014, 21:39

:con: Miwonša

He is a fisherman: Woi pjunšišan.
(he fisherman)

He is strong: Woi chaski.
(he strong)

He is my husband: Woi sunžiwmo. / Woi sunro maya.
he husband-my / he husband of-mine (a bit more emphatic

He is in my house: Woi wa waliwmi. / Woi waliwmul. / Woi wa wali maya.i.
he in house-my / he house-my-in (a bit old-fashioned) / he in house of-mine (a bit empathic)
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Re: He is...

Post by Prinsessa » Mon 05 Jan 2015, 14:48

Vanga has no copula.

First one would be fish<NEUT>.V-VL-3, but I don't have a word for that yet, so I'll use an equivalent one:

tahyah
he kills
die<NEUT>.V-CAUS.VL-3

Second one is an attributive verb, which are usually non-volitional (tho only certain verbs may explicitly mark volition) and not continuous (continous aspect would generally imply a more temporary state; the difference is similar to the double copulæ of certain Romance languages):

hapah
he is strong
strong*<NEUT>.V-NVL-3

* This actually means hand; arm, and is one of the stems that may indeed encode explicit volition.

For husband and wife alike, the regular nouns for man and woman coupled with a possessive referring to their spouse is used. This existential phrase could, and often would, be expressed simply as my husband, tho for emphasis, direction or endearment or rarely for disambiguation the correct pronoun – stressed or unstressed – may be added too. No copular verb is used. To deny the fact, a negative pronoun would be used.

muyanī (ha[ya]*)
(he is) my husband
man.N-POSS=1 (3SG)

* The stressed form is haya and the unstressed form is ha.

The last one may differ depending on whether the guest is a welcome one or not. The more positive phrasing would be the following:

assizyıyō
"I am housing him here" (≈ I'm having him as a guest in my home)
CONT-home<PROX>.V-CAUS.VL-1-OBJ-3

Should the person not be there by invitation or to the delight of the host, a more general expression may be used:

asūznallıah
he is in (my) house
CONT-[home.N]-LOC-be*<PROX>.V-3

* Again, the language has no copula, but this is a handy gloss. It really is the root for foot and means to be in a place or stand.

This might seem slightly ambiguous, but its not in practice. For one, the proximal stem helps direct the contents of the statement towards the speaker.

Another possibility would be for the speaker to take some distance from the statement by making it passive and using an indirect rather than direct self-referring object form.

assizyaziva
"he is being housed towards (= at) me"
CONT-home<PROX>.V-CAUS.VL-3-OBJ-1-NDIR

Were it not the speaker's home, a distal form would probably have been used. Either way, to say that someone is in their own home, the same verb as before, in its non-causative form, would be used.

ossūzah
he is (over) in his house
CONT-home<DIST>.V-VL-3
Solarius
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Re: He is...

Post by Solarius » Thu 08 Jan 2015, 19:33

Xhpo démí plays.
3p. hook-person be.estar
"He is a fisherman."

Xhpo estar né a.
3p. be.strong REP PRS
"He is strong."

Xhpo e u t'íjåtéí yés né a.
3p. GEN 1p. crown-person be.ser REP PRS
"He is my husband."

Xhpo e u eréka mér né a.
3p. GEN 1p. house be.LOC REP PRS
"He is in my house."

Although the latter sentence would typically be avoided as it's often used for innuendo and would be replaced by

Xhpo mér cå né a, u eréka kpóno'ha né a qa'.
3p. be.LOC ANTIP REP PRS 1p. house hold=SR REP PRS COM
"He is in (a house), and I own the house."
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Dormouse559
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Re: He is...

Post by Dormouse559 » Tue 13 Jan 2015, 06:28

This is an unnamed conlang I started working on a few days ago. The first and fourth sentences use a zero-copula construction. The second and third sentence use verbal expressions.

Vis lałunik.
[ˈvis laɫuˈnik]
[COP] 3SG[NOM] fisherman[NOM]
He is a fisherman.

Nakkhiyagane vis.
[ˈnakkʰijagan ˈvis]
be_strong-ANTIP 3SG[NOM]
He is strong.

Phálaní vis.
[pʰaːlaˈniː ˈvis]
be_married_to[CONT]=1SG[ACC] 3SG[NOM]
He is my husband.

Vis nikkaya nívuk.
[ˈvis ˈnikkaja niːˈwuk]
[COP] 3SG[NOM] house-LOC 1SG-GEN
He is in my house.
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