The Fox and the Scorpion

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Lambuzhao
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The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 27 Apr 2014, 02:45

Classic, pithy, tragic, and did I mention classic?
Masako & Azoh, git yer translations over here pronto!

:con: Sadraas

Ves uon Prængtyll þanün andlæng uffen þös Rohsbencces, ent ves sjdunchün hœ geðen hit duon udores Siðes. Fvljœtjglyc sēod hit uon Længtyll.
Bitted ye Prængtyll tuo yös Længtylls, «þrogaÐe mj duon dene Ruce ðej übr þös Rohs.»
Anzuarad ye Længtyll cweþün «Njnhööven. Uhenne deðenj enjo, mavolle Ðe mj schtiggðen, ent mavollej mj plïnggðen.»
Miztrængmekked ye Prængtyll tuo hj cweþün «Uhenne mavollej enjö diðen, mavolle jous tjelr plïnggðen.»
Sjruknad ye Længtyll vüt enjöj, ent læztmöstlyc sjtwisvarad hit såkkün mit samern.
Swæðen klûmbad ye Prængtyll duon dene Ruce yös Længtylls, ent sjtjœkkad ye Længtyll tuo suomman.
Ob ë þë Betwichte, schtokad ye Prængtyll hjs.
Michdoch sjmitpfülled der Mordrersgiß ë þeße Þïwe ent Snïwe, sjrüntsirid ye Længtyll ent cweþad tuo hjs, «Vürünj dirt Ðe enjo? Uhenne nö skalrt Ðe olswæ plünken?»
«Cnadj nej mj üvheltin,» anzuarad ye Prængtyll, «orfer becad mj ye Nîd.»


*NB - Originally story ends with the line "because it was my nature".
Spoiler:
A scorpion was walking along the bank of a river, wondering how to get to the other side.
Suddenly, he saw a fox.
He asked the fox to take him on his back across the river.
The fox said, "No. If I do that, you'll sting me, and I'll drown."
The scorpion assured him, "If I do that, we'll both drown."
The fox thought about it and finally agreed.
So the scorpion climbed up on his back, and the fox began to swim.
But halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him.
As poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said, "Why did you do that? Now you'll drown, too."
"I couldn't help it," said the scorpion. "Necessity got the better of me."
gloss & IPA forthwith

Just [tick] . Thank you, Masako!
Last edited by Lambuzhao on Tue 29 Apr 2014, 10:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Ahzoh
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Ahzoh » Sun 27 Apr 2014, 03:39

Note:
I made the scorpion (ṟīyan) a female, so she takes the ending -ē and made the fox (yaẇra) a male, so he takes the ending -(h)ī.

:con: Yaškik Yat-Vṛḵaẕīkam

Šēʾṟūs Ṟīyanē bar ẕalḫūl šajetūn, šēǧnūb šē ḵtaj ʾan-wajīr ḟarīš.
Ḻūnṟat, šē Yaẇrahī nōzlod.
Šē Yaẇrahī nohḏok hē šēyam lagīš ma hēra saṟaẇ taẏkē šajet.
Yaẇrahī «Ṟa. ʾahīf ẕaẏ ʾanī hēdīr, ʾatī hyan ʾafḫed lav ẕaẏ ʾahret» hē nōyšok.
Ṟīyanē «ʾAhīf ẕaẏ ʾanī hēdīr, yeš ʾahretam» šē nōjkol.
Yaẇrahī ʾaf ʾanī nōkgod lav hē nōhqof.
ʾAǧ Ṟīyanē nōḵlom ma hēra saṟaẇ, lav ḏō havīr.
Nē netaẏṟēhī taẏkē šajet šē hēyam nōfḫod.
ʾĪya ḅas yēṣot hēyam, Yaẇrahī nōmrok ṟīyanabē lav «Hna ʾatī hyan fēḫod? ʾAtī vīd hyan ʾahret.» hē noyšok.
«Ẕaẏ ḫala ṟanjīk-na.» Ṟīyanē nōyšok «Ḫol haf ẕtač ya.»


I dare you to pronounce this:
[ɕeʔʀus ʀijane baɾ ʑalχul ɕad͡ʑɛtun ɕeɣnub ɕe xtaʑ ʔan-wad͡ʑiɾ ɸʶaɾiɕ]
[ɬʲunʀat ɕe yao̯ɾahi nozlɔd]
[ɕe yao̯ɾahi noʰt͡sɔk he ɕejam lagiɕ ma heɾa seʀao̯ tae̯ke ɕad͡ʑɛt]
[yao̯ɾahi ʀa ʔahiɸ ʑae̯ ʔani hediɾ ʔati hjan ʔaʷɸχɛd laʷβ ʑae̯ ʔaʰɾɛt he nɔe̯ɕɔk]
[ʀijane ʔahiɸ ʑae̯ ʔani hediɾ jɛɕ ʔaʰɾɛtam ɕe nod͡ʑkɔl]
[yao̯ɾahi ʔaʷɸ ʔani nokgɔd laʷβ he noʰqɔɸ]
[ʔaɣ ʀijane noxlɔm ma heɾa seʀao̯ laʷβ t͡so haʷβiɾ]
[ne nɛtae̯ʀehi tae̯ke ɕad͡ʑɛt ɕe hejam noɸχɔd]
[ʔija bʶas jesʶɔt hejam yao̯ɾahi nomɾɔk ʀijanabe laʷβ ʰna ʔati hjan ɸeχɔd ʔati βid hjan ʔaʰɾɛt he nɔe̯ɕɔk]
[ʑae̯ χala ʀand͡ʑik-nə ʀijane nɔe̯ɕɔk χɔl haʷɸ ʑtaɕ ja]
Spoiler:
A scorpion was walking along the bank of a river, wondering how to get to the other side.
Suddenly, she saw a fox.
She asked the fox to take her on his back across the river.
The fox said, "No. If I do that, you'll sting me, and I'll drown."
The scorpion assured him, "If I do that, we'll both drown."
The fox thought about it and finally agreed.
So the scorpion climbed up on his back, and the fox began to swim.
But halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him.
As poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said, "Why did you do that? Now you'll drown, too."
"I couldn't help it," said the scorpion. "It's my nature."
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Ahzoh
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Ahzoh » Mon 28 Apr 2014, 04:27

We need more translations
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Fluffy8x » Mon 28 Apr 2014, 06:10

:con: Necarasso Cryssesa

Sargo encara invetad cssena iss resa eltesyl ensor encara maryd ryssa gantead er.
Tarcamyn enara menad asendar.
Enara remyd iss asendar re meftehente os yl clastro nysos iss eltes.
Iss asendar enara marayd «0 [ces]. So meftehena ner geves eriegyd e ner geva esforyd.»
Iss sargo enara gerad «So eriegese synta gevan esforyd.»
Iss asendar ner enara sertyd ner es iss symessa enara natryd.
Sa ner iss sargo enara invetad yl clastro otes ner iss asendar enara estenyryd.
Ena meamer nysos iss eltes iss sargo enara eriegyd os.
Ensor emveoro encara cronaryd orelto otes iss asendar ner enara sarayd iss sargo ner enara marayd «Enaras eriegyd astyr? Endyr eo tesos geves esforyd.»
Iss sargo enara marayd «Enare pertenyd egrayd ci. Enare esforyd tarpeata.»

Literally
Spoiler:
A scorpion walked along the bank of a river while he searched for how to cross it.
Suddenly he saw a fox.
He asked the fox if he could carry him on back through the river.
The fox said "No. If I carry you'll sting and I'll drown."
The scorpion assured "If I sting (we) all drown."
The fox thought and at the end agreed.
Therefore the scorpion climbed his back and the fox started swimming.
But halfway through the river the fox stung him.
While poison filled his veins the fox faced the scorpion and said "Why did you sting? Now you'll also drown."
The scorpion said "I couldn't resist. I drowned in necessity."
Debug
Spoiler:
さるご えんから いいんべたつ くぜな いいず れさ える゙てしる゙ えんそる えんから まりつ りざ がんてあつ える。
たるかみん えなら めねあつ あせんだる。
えなら れみつ いいず あせんだる れ めふてっへんて おす いる゙ くら゙すつろ にそす いいず える゙てす。
いいず あせんだる えなら まらいつ «0 [けす]。 そ めふてっへな ねる げべす えいぇぎつ え ねる げば えすほりつ。»
いいず さるご えなら げらつ «そ えいぇげせ しんた げばん えすほりつ。»
いいず あせんだる ねる えなら せるちつ ねる えす いいず しめざ えなら なつりつ。
さ ねる いいず さるご えなら いいんべたつ いる゙ くら゙すつろ おてす ねる いいず あせんだる えなら えすてにりつ。
えな めあめる にそす いいず える゙てす いいず さるご えなら えいぇぎつ おす。
えんそる えむべおろ えんから くろなりつ おれる゙と おてす いいず あせんだる ねる えなら さらいつ いいず さるご ねる えなら まらいつ «えならす えいぇぎつ あすちる? えんぢる えお てそす げべす えすほりつ。»
いいず さるご えなら まらいつ «えなれ ぺるてにつ えぐらいつ き。 えなれ えすほりつ たるぺあた。»
an siina levian t'isorakateez
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Plague
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Plague » Mon 28 Apr 2014, 19:26

:got: Gothic

Skaurpjo ƕarf and aƕos staþ jah þahta ƕe bitiuhan ija.
Anaks, saƕ fauho.
Si baþ fauho niman sik ana hrugja is ufar þo aƕa.
Þata fauho qaþ, "Ne. Jabai taujau þata, stuggjais mik jah fradrigkau."
So skaurpjo fullaweisida ita, "Jabai taujau þata, wit fradrigkanda."
Þata fauho andþahta is jah bi spedistin gaqiþaida.
Nu, so skaurpjo usstaig ana hrugi is, jah þata fauho anastoþ swimman.
Akei, ana halbai wigis, so skaurpjo stuggida ita.
Swe ingif fulljida eþros is, þata fauho wandida du izai jah saƕ "Duƕe tawides þata? Jah nu fradrigkis."
"Ni mahteigs im reikinon þamma," saƕ so skaurpjo. "Nauþs blauþida mik."


[ˈskɔrpjo: ʍɑrɸ ɑnd ˈɑʍo:s stɑθ jɑh ˈθɑhtɑ ʍe biˈtiu̯hɑn ijɑ]
[ɑnɑks sɑʍ ˈɸɔho:]
[si βɑθ ˈɸɔho: ˈnimɑn sik ˈɑnɑ ˈhruɣjɑ is ˈuɸɑr θo: ˈɑʍɑ]
[ˈθɑtɑ ˈɸɔho: kʷɑθ ne ˈjɑβe: ˈtɔ:jɔ: ˈθɑtɑ ˈstuŋgje:s mik jɑh ˈɸrɑðriŋkɔ:]
[so: ˈskɔrpjo: ˈɸul:ɑwi:siðɑ itɑ ˈjɑβe: ˈtɔ:jɔ: ˈθɑtɑ wit ˈɸrɑðriŋkɑndɑ]
[ˈθɑtɑ ˈɸɔho: ɑnt.ˈθɑhtɑ is jɑh bi ˈspeðistiŋ gɑˈkʷiθe:ðɑ]
[nu so: ˈskɔrpjo: us.ˈste:ɣ ˈɑnɑ ˈhruɣi is jɑh ˈθɑtɑ ˈɸɔho: ˈɑnɑsto:θ ˈswim:ɑn]
[ˈɑki: ˈɑnɑ ˈhɑlbe: ˈwiɣis so: ˈskɔrpjo: ˈstuŋgiðɑ ˈitɑ]
[swe ˈiŋgiɸ ˈɸul:jiðɑ ˈeθro:s is ˈθɑtɑ ˈɸɔho: ˈwɑndiðɑ du ˈize: jɑh sɑʍ ˈduʍe ˈtɑwiðes ˈθɑtɑ jɑh nu ˈɸrɑðriŋkis]
[ni ˈmɑhti:xs im ˈri:kino:n ˈθɑm:ɑ sɑʍ so: ˈskɔrpjo: nɔ:θs ˈblɔ:θiðɑ mik]
Spoiler:
A scorpion travelled along the bank of a river, thinking how to cross it.
Suddenly, he saw a fox.
He asked the fox to take him on his back across the river.
The fox said, "No. If I do that, you would sting me, and I would drown."
The scorpion assured him, "If I do that, we would both drown."
The fox thought about it and finally agreed.
So the scorpion climbed up on his back, and the fox began to swim.
But halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him.
As poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said, "Why did you do that? Now you'll drown, too."
"I couldn't control it," said the scorpion. "Need overpowered me."
Spoiler:
My own orthography:

Skorpjō ƕarf and aƕōs staþ jah þahta ƕē bitiuhan ija.
Anaks, saƕ fohō.
Si baþ fohō niman sik ana hrugja is ufar þō aƕa.
Þata fohō qaþ, "Nē. Jabe tojo þata, stungjes mik jah fradrinko."
Sō skorpjō fullawēisida ita, "Jabe tojo þata, wit fradrinkanda."
Þata fohō andþahta is jah bi spēdistin gaqiþeda.
Nu, sō skorpjō ussteg ana hrugi is, jah þata fohō anastōþ swimman.
Akēi, ana halbe wigis, sō skorpjō stungida ita.
Swē ingif fulljida ēþrōs is, þata fohō wandida du ize jah saƕ "Duƕē tawidēs þata? Jah nu fradrinkis."
"Ni mahtēigs im rēikinōn þamma," saƕ sō skorpjō. "Noþs bloþida mik."
No gloss because I'm lazy.

fradrigkan ("to drown") is a neologism, calque of Dutch verdrinken. Eþra ("vein") is also a neologism, from PG *ēþrǭ. AND hrugjis ("back, spine") is also a neologism, from PG *hrugjaz.
Last edited by Plague on Tue 29 Apr 2014, 10:40, edited 1 time in total.
:got:
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Lambuzhao
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Lambuzhao » Tue 29 Apr 2014, 10:21

I must apologize here and give a clarification.

The original story ends not with "Need compelled me", but "It's in my nature".
[:S]
In my Sadraas translation, the word for "nature" for some reason did not sound quite right, so the expression "It's in my nature" or "It's a part of my nature" didn't either.
[:x]
For some reason, this story makes me think of the Spanish dicho "La necesidad me obliga", and, since this phrase does translate pretty easily into Sadraas, I used that as the "punchline".
[:$]

Sorry agayne, and happy translating
[;)]

Azoh's version is the more orthodox (Queller) translation of the story. Masako's is the most orthodox (Quellest, Quellemost) of all of ours, and we await his addition with great expectation.

Of course, there are folks out there who belong to the sect that believes it was a frog carrying the scorpion, or those even farther-out loonies who happen to think it was a spider on the frog's back, who wriggled and jiggled and tickled astride her. Sheesh. IMHO, I hope you're not one of those people. :roll:

[xP]
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Ahzoh » Tue 29 Apr 2014, 11:55

Lambuzhao wrote:I must apologize here and give a clarification.

The original story ends not with "Need compelled me", but "It's in my nature".
[:S]
In my Sadraas translation, the word for "nature" for some reason did not sound quite right, so the expression "It's in my nature" or "It's a part of my nature" didn't either.
[:x]
For some reason, this story makes me think of the Spanish dicho "La necesidad me obliga", and, since this phrase does translate pretty easily into Sadraas, I used that as the "punchline".
[:$]

Sorry agayne, and happy translating
[;)]

Azoh's version is the more orthodox (Queller) translation of the story. Masako's is the most orthodox (Quellest, Quellemost) of all of ours, and we await his addition with great expectation.

Of course, there are folks out there who belong to the sect that believes it was a frog carrying the scorpion, or those even farther-out loonies who happen to think it was a spider on the frog's back, who wriggled and jiggled and tickled astride her. Sheesh. IMHO, I hope you're not one of those people. :roll:

[xP]

Mines not word for word, I used the phrase "I could not resist it" rather than "I couldn't help it"
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Bagliun Edar » Tue 29 Apr 2014, 12:30

You all know my conlang, Godspeech, is amateurish as I am no professional linguist, I've been learning as I go, and I have much to learn yet. But Ahzoh stated that:
Ahzoh wrote:We need more translations
...so I'm wondering whether you need such an amateurish one. If so, please, post the exact text you want translated. It seems each one has quoted a different version of it, and I'm not certain of what exactly should be translated.
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Lao Kou » Tue 29 Apr 2014, 15:47

Lambuzhao wrote:Classic, pithy, tragic, and did I mention classic?
Géarthnuns is not the language of pith, but here we go...

Image Géarthnuns

Sü twaks lü sö shabsöb veng nzdanez kfö chöi hetsöiv knöbetöiv chü azhakhbdönöksüt ntebíeth.
Mbüva'u sük lé sí gnelsít tel.
Sük lé, gü chí gnels lé süküt chau sfaiersaub kéçö mükfé hühazhölízçaunikh sho, hílel.
De chí gnels lé öblé ngamath „Glé. Sí lí hereçkeveçö haudravnath sho, öçek lí sít hektükh, kfö sí lí heralípökh.”
Chü twaks lén sílít rhkauzçöl „Sí lí hereçkeveçö haudravnath sho, trízh lí híau heralípökh.”
Chí gnels lé löithfíkh kfö vangkathé höfnazhen.
De chü twaks lé chí azhölsív chí gnelsís lomarhkovöz, kfö síl lé ba shkeföz zhgöchez.
De chau sfaiersaub ömkéçö, chü twaks lé sílít ktükh.
Zçeshtanö chü jlunaks lé chöik dhongarötsöich zçenshakröf sho, chí gnels lé chü twaksüv öçalídrömídnaf kfö sükük ngamath „Öçek lé chelöi hereçkeveçö ksa hödravnath? Öçek lí ífa'u heralípökh.”
„Fí lé hereçkeveçö ngüdré dravnath.” chü twaks lé helkeveçö ngamath „Chí hengels lü chí veshkals sítel mvaçtö nöi.”
Spoiler:
Sü twaks lü sö shabsöb veng nzdanez kfö chöi hetsöiv knöbetöiv chü azhakhbdönöksüt ntebíeth.
[sy ˈtwaks ly sø ˈʃabsøb ˌvɛŋ nˈzdanɛz kfø tʃøj ˈhɛtsøjv knøˈbetøjv tʃy ˌaʒaxbdøˈnøksyt nˈtɛbjɛθ]
INDEF scorpion-NOM AUX.TRANSC INDEF river.bank-POST along walk and DEF side-LOC opposite-LOC DEF reach.way-ACC wonder
A scorpion was walking along the bank of a river, wondering how to get to the other side.

Mbüva'u sük lé sí gnelsít tel.
[ˌm.byˈva.u syk ˈle si ˈgnɛlsit ˈtɛl]
suddenly 3SG-NOM AUX.PAST INDEF fox-ACC see
Suddenly, he saw a fox.

Sük lé, gü chí gnels lé süküt chau sfaiersaub kéçö mükfé hühazhölízçaunikh sho, hílel.
[syk ˈle, gy tʃi ˈgnɛls le ˈsykyt tʃɔ sfajˈɛɾsɔb ˌkeɕø myˈkfe hyhaˌʒøliʑɔˈnɪx ʃo, hiˈlɛl]
3SG AUX.PAST, CONJ DEF fox-NOM AUX.PAST 3SG-ACC DEF river-POST across kindly back.carry-IMP PTCL, ask
He asked the fox to take him on his back across the river.

De chí gnels lé öblé ngamath „Glé. Sí lí hereçkeveçö haudravnath sho, öçek lí sít hektükh, kfö sí lí heralípökh.”
[dɛ tʃi ˈgnɛls le øˈble ŋaˈmaθ „gle. ˈsi li ˌhɛɾɛɕˌkɛvɛˈɕø hɔˈdɾavnaθ ˌʃo, øˈɕɛk li ˈsit hɛˈktyx, kfø ˈsi li hɛˌɾaliˈpøx”]
but DEF fox-NOM AUX.PAST but say „no. 1SG-NOM AUX.FUT thus do-SPEC PTCL, 2SG-NOM AUX.FUT 1SG-ACC sting-CONCL, and 1SG-NOM AUX.FUT drown-CONCL”
The fox said, "No. If I do that, you'll sting me, and I'll drown."

Chü twaks lén sílít rhkauzçöl „Sí lí hereçkeveçö haudravnath sho, trízh lí híau heralípökh.”
[tʃy ˈtwaks len ˈsilit ˈXkɔʑøl „si li ˌhɛɾɛɕˌkɛvɛˈɕø hɔˈdravnaθ ˌʃo, ˌtɾiʒ li ˈhjɔ hɛˌɾaliˈpøx”]
DEF scorpion-NOM AUX.PAST.CAUS 3SG-ACC be.convinced „1SG-NOM AUX.FUT thus do-SPEC, 1DUAL-NOM AUX.FUT all-ADV drown-CONCL”
The scorpion assured him, "If I do that, we'll both drown."

Chí gnels lé löithfíkh kfö vangkathé höfnazhen.
[tʃi ˈgnɛls le løjˈθfix kfø ˌvaŋkaˈθe høˈfnaʒɛn]
DEF fox-NOM AUX.PRES think.through and finally agree
The fox thought about it and finally agreed.

De chü twaks lé chí azhölsív chí gnelsís lomarhkovöz, kfö síl lé ba shkeföz zhgöchez.
[dɛ tʃy ˈtwaks le tʃi aˈʒølsiv tʃi ˈgnɛlsis ˌlomaˈXkovøz, kfø ˈsil le ba ˈʃkɛføz ˈʒgøtʃɛz]
so DEF scorpion-NOM AUX.PAST DEF back-LOC DEF fox-GEN climb.up, and 3SG-NOM AUX.PAST PTCL swim begin
So the scorpion climbed up on his back, and the fox began to swim.

De chau sfaiersaub ömkéçö, chü twaks lé sílít ktükh.
[dɛ tʃɔ sfajˈɛɾsɔb ømˈkeɕø, tʃy ˈtwaks le ˈsilit ˈktyx]
but DEF river-POST half.across, DEF scorpion-NOM AUX.PRES 3SG-ACC sting
But halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him.

Zçeshtanö chü jlunaks lé chöik dhongarötsöich zçenshakröf sho, chí gnels lé chü twaksüv öçalídrömídnaf kfö sükük ngamath „Öçek lé chelöi hereçkeveçö ksa hödravnath? Öçek lí ífa'u heralípökh.”
[ˌʑɛʃtaˈnø tʃy ˈdʒlunaks ˌle tʃøjk ˌðoŋaˈɾøtsøjtʃ ʑɛnˈʃakɾøf ˌʃo, tʃi ˈgnɛls le tʃy ˈtwaksyv øˌɕalidɾøˈmi.dnaf kfø ˈsykyk ˈŋamaθ „øˈɕɛk le tʃɛˈløj ˌhɛɾɛɕˈkɛvɛˈɕø ˌksa høˈdɾavnaθ? øˈɕɛk li iˈfa.u hɛˌɾaliˈpøx”]
as DEF poison-NOM AUX.PAST DEF.PL vein-ACC.PL fill PTCL, DEF fox-NOM AUX.PRES DEF scorpion-LOC head.turn.around and 3SG-DAT say „2SG-NOM AUX.PAST why thus ADV do-INTERR? 2SG-NOM AUX.FUT also drown-CONCL
As poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said, "Why did you do that? Now you'll drown, too."

„Fí lé hereçkeveçö ngüdré dravnath.” chü twaks lé helkeveçö ngamath „Chí hengels lü chí veshkals sítel mvaçtö nöi.”
[„ˈfi le ˌhɛɾɛɕˌkɛvɛˈɕø ŋyˈdɾe dɾaˈvnaθ” tʃy ˈtwaks le ˌhɛlkɛvɛˈɕø ŋamaθ „tʃi ˈhɛŋɛls ly tʃi vɛˈʃkals siˈtɛl mˈvaɕtø ˌnøj”]
„1SG-NOM.NEG AUX.PAST thus can.only-ADV.PAST do” DEF scorpion AUX.PAST thus say „DEF this-NOM AUX.TRANSC DEF true.nature-NOM 1SG.POSS.ADJ-NOM ADV be”
"I couldn't help it," said the scorpion. "It's my nature."
Last edited by Lao Kou on Tue 29 Mar 2016, 11:14, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Squall » Wed 30 Apr 2014, 03:04

English is not my native language. Sorry for any mistakes or lack of knowledge when I discuss this language.
:bra: :mrgreen: | :uk: [:D] | :esp: [:)] | :epo: [:|] | :lat: [:S] | :jpn: [:'(]
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Lambuzhao » Wed 30 Apr 2014, 11:18

Bagliun Edar wrote:You all know my conlang, Godspeech, is amateurish as I am no professional linguist, I've been learning as I go, and I have much to learn yet. But Ahzoh stated that:
Ahzoh wrote:We need more translations
...so I'm wondering whether you need such an amateurish one. If so, please, post the exact text you want translated. It seems each one has quoted a different version of it, and I'm not certain of what exactly should be translated.
Great question/suggestion.

Go with Masako's version. It works. It's in the CCB Conversation Thread.
masako wrote:Image

seko saye puani nahayo yalaye ma ke tsa’eto omoye
haye seko ke tsola anyaye
seko nya tsa’e naha amo ua’e muta tsolayo kanyoye
tsola kye ak na’eta amo yatli ta’ena kute nuesitli
seko kye na’eta kute yatli nam nuesitli
tsola pue omo nkataye
ya seko ua’e muta tsolayo uayaye ma tsola yokomuye
me tsa’etsohue nahayo seko ke tsola kuteye
tsola ike sunu ke sila hayo yeno ka’e seko muka kye nye ta’ena kuteye ka
ima ta nuesitli
seko kye na’i ke to nayo tlinapayek


A scorpion was walking along the bank of a river, wondering how to get to the other side.
Suddenly, he saw a fox.
He asked the fox to take him on his back across the river.
The fox said, "No. If I do that, you'll sting me, and I'll drown."
The scorpion assured him, "If I do that, we'll both drown."
The fox thought about it and finally agreed.
So the scorpion climbed up on his back, and the fox began to swim.
But halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him.
As poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said, "Why did you do that? Now you'll drown, too."
"I couldn't help it," said the scorpion. "It's my nature."
Last edited by Lambuzhao on Wed 30 Apr 2014, 11:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Lambuzhao » Wed 30 Apr 2014, 11:31

Squall wrote:Is not it a frog?
Wow. Whoa. Talk about plethora of epichoric variants!

I think the original original version included a Sea Scorpion and an Eryops. The Eryops and Sea Scorpion were pursued by a lava flow which evaporated the pond and tidal pool within which they were respectively situated. Thus the Eryops was forced to carry the Sea Scorpion across land. Up high on the Eryops back, the Sea Scorpion spotted an opposite shore from far away, smelled the salt air and heard the crash of waves. He killed his mount, and chuckling maniacally, scampered into the sea.
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Lambuzhao » Wed 30 Apr 2014, 11:36

Bagliun Edar wrote:You all know my conlang, Godspeech, is amateurish as I am no professional linguist, I've been learning as I go, and I have much to learn yet. But Ahzoh stated that:
Ahzoh wrote:We need more translations
...so I'm wondering whether you need such an amateurish one. If so, please, post the exact text you want translated. It seems each one has quoted a different version of it, and I'm not certain of what exactly should be translated.
So what we have here, if I understand you correctly, is an epichoric, Paratranslational Challenge/Thread ?

:idea:

[O.O] :wat: [O.o]
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Lambuzhao » Wed 30 Apr 2014, 11:44

Lao Kou wrote:
Lambuzhao wrote:Classic, pithy, tragic, and did I mention classic?
Géarthnuns is not the language of pith, but here we go...

:con: Géarthnuns
...
Your language just got pithier.
I.E. You just rolled a 19 on the 20s die for PITH.

http://www.scolartek.com/sites/default/ ... 9859a7.png
[:)]
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Bagliun Edar » Wed 30 Apr 2014, 12:08

Lambuzhao wrote:So what we have here, if I understand you correctly, is an epichoric, Paratranslational Challenge/Thread ?
Hardly what I meant, if I understand you correctly.
Edit: After rechecking with my dictionaries, I may actually have thought so. My bad, sorry....
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Lambuzhao » Wed 30 Apr 2014, 17:57

Bagliun Edar wrote:
Edit: After rechecking with my dictionaries, I may actually have thought so. My bad, sorry....
That's all right...as long as you aren't a "frog" person.
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by Bagliun Edar » Thu 01 May 2014, 23:17

:con: Obulamga

Gruluroryomdo vēlbotha zaūlin yagouzu, zleumboimiltha thejalthi zuau.
Aliamorlado grulororyem ilialbo orenyol.
Grulororyemdo muvlibo orenyel mejomthrudul thejaltho zuau.
Amorenyeldo "Vodrouma. Ubovlijoim, dlīojoilomtha brumujoilomtha."
Grulororyem orenyeldul lambodo "Grulororiurodo droumajoim,
oreneoviontha grulororiurōviontha brumujoilom."
Orenyeldo navlabotha ubovlibotha.
Momthrubo. Thalbo.
Aejlelin zuamdo dlīobo.
Enalabin zumbozu brōrorurmorovion althlemarirdo orenyel laīmbotha
lambotha "Lamqhān drejoumathu. Brőzumuqhado gruqhulororyembal!"
Athamimorveavurāmāzlum bōlgumorveavurāmāzlem amgrulororyem. "Abranuinamorja."
Spoiler:
A scorpion was walking on a side of a river,
and asking herself how to go to the other side.
Suddenly, the scorpion saw a fox.
The scorpion asked permission to the fox to mount on the fox's back in order to go to the other side.
The fox said, "You may not. If I permit that, you will sting me, and I will drown."
The scorpion said to the fox, "If this scorpion do that, the fox and this scorpion will drown."
The fox thought about it and finally agreed.
So the scorpion mounted the fox.
The fox began to go.
Halfway during it, the scorpion stung the fox.
As poison filled the fox's veins, the fox brought his attention to the scorpion
and said, "Why did the scorpion do that? Now the scorpion will drown, too."
"Desire stronger than will," said the scorpion. "It's my nature."
Spoiler:
[ˈgɾuluɾɔɾˌʎɔmdɔ ˈvɛːlbɔða ˈzauːlin ˈʎagɔˌuzu,]
gruluror-yom-do vēl-bo-tha zau-u-lin yago-u-zu,
scorpion-SG.INTR_INDF.FEM-TOP walk-NARR.POL-CONJ side-SG.INTR_INDF.NEUT-LOC river-SG.INTR_INDF.NEUT-REL
A scorpion was walking on a side of a river,

[ˈzlɛumbɔiˌmilða ˈðɛʒalði ˈzuau]
zleum-bo-imil-tha th<ej>al-thi zua-u
ask-NARR.POL-2SG.REFL-CONJ <INF>go-how opposing_side-SG.INTR_INDF.NEUT[ACC]
and asking herself how to go to (the) other side.

[ˈaliamɔˌɾladɔ ˈgɾulɔˌɾɔɾʎɛm ˈiliˌalbɔ ˈɔɾɛnʎɔl]
alia-mor-la-do gruloror-yem ilial-bo oren-yol
event-NEUT-adjacent-TOP scorpion-SG.INTR_DEF.FEM[ERG] see-NARR.POL fox-SG.INTR_INDF.MASC[ACC]
Suddenly, the scorpion saw a fox.

[ˈgɾulɔɾɔɾˌʎɛmdɔ ˈmuvlibɔ ˈɔɾɛnʎɛl ˈmɛʒɔmˌðɾudul ˈðɛʒalðɔ ˈzuau ]
gruloror-yem-do muvli-bo oren-yel m<ej>omthru-dul th<ej>al-tho zua-u
scorpion-SG.INTR_DEF.FEM-TOP ask_permission-NARR.POL fox-SG.INTR_DEF.MASC[ACC] <INF>mount-DAT <INF>go-in_order_to opposing_side-SG.INTR_INDF.NEUT[ACC]
The scorpion asked permission to the fox to mount (on the fox's back) in order to go to (the) other side.

[ˈamɔɾɛnˌʎɛldɔ ˈvɔdɾɔˌuma. ˈubɔvliˌʒɔim, ˈdliːɔʒɔiˌlɔmða ˈbɾumuʒɔiˌlɔmða]
am-oren-yel-do "vo-drouma. ubovli-jo-im, dlīo-jo-ilom-tha brumu-jo-ilom-tha"
said_by-fox-SG.INTR_DEF.MASC-TOP PERM.POL.NEG-do permit-IND.POL-CAUSE, sting-IND.POL-EFFECT-CONJ drown-IND.POL.EFFECT-CONJ
The fox said, "(You) may not. If (I) permit (that), (you) will sting (me), and (I) will drown."

[ˈgɾulɔˌɾɔɾʎɛm ˈɔɾɛnˌʎɛldul ˈlambɔdɔ ˈgɾulɔɾɔɾiuˌɾɔdɔ ˈdɾɔumaˌʒɔim, ˈɔɾɛnɛɔviˌɔnða ˈgɾulɔɾɔɾiuɾɔːviˌɔnða ˈbɾumuʒɔˌilɔm]
gruloror-yem oren-yel-dul lam-bo-do "gruloror-i-uro-do drouma-jo-im, oren-e-ovion-tha gruloror-i-uro-ovion-tha brumu-jo-ilom"
scorpion-SG.INTR_DEF.FEM[ERG] fox-SG.INTR_DEF.MASC-DAT say-NARR.POL-TOP "scorpion-SG.DEF.FEM-1.this-TOP do-IND.POL-CAUSE, fox-SG.DEF.MASC-PAT-CONJ scorpion-SG.DEF.FEM-1.this-PAT-CONJ drown-IND.POL-EFFECT
The scorpion said to the fox, "If this scorpion do (that), the fox and this scorpion will drown."

[ˈɔɾɛnˌʎɛldɔ ˈnavlaˌbɔða ˈubɔvliˌbɔða]
oren-yel-do navla-bo-tha ubovli-bo-tha
fox-SG.INTR_DEF.MASC-TOP think-NARR.POL-CONJ permit-NARR.POL-CONJ
The fox thought (about it) and (finally) agreed.

[ˈmɔmðɾubɔ]
momthru-bo
mount-NARR.POL
(So the scorpion) mounted (the fox).

[ˈðalbɔ]
thal-bo
go-NARR.POL
(The fox began to) go.

[ˈaɛˌʒlɛlin ˈzuamdɔ ˈdliːɔbɔ]
a<ej>le-lin zuam-do dlīo-bo
<INF>previous_event-LOC half-TOP sting-NARR.POL
Halfway during it, (the scorpion) stung (the fox).

[ˈɛnaˌlabin ˈzumbɔzu ˈbɾɔːɾɔɾuɾmɔɾɔˌviɔn ˈalðlɛmaˌɾiɾdɔ ˈɔɾɛnʎɛl ˈlaiːmˌbɔða]
enalabin zum-bo-zu brōrorur-mor-ovion al-thlema-rir-do oren-yel laīm-bo-tha
during diffuse-NARR.POL-REL poison-NEUT-PAT within-vein-PL.DEF.NEUT-TOP fox-SG.INTR_DEF.MASC[ERG] bring_attention_to-NARR.POL-CONJ
As poison filled the fox's veins, the fox brought (his) attention (to the scorpion) and said

[ˈlambɔða ˈlamq͡ʁaːn ˈdɾɛʒɔuˌmaðu. ˈbɾɔːzumuˌq͡ʁadɔ ˈgɾuq͡ʁulɔɾɔɾˌʎɛmbal]
lam-bo-tha "lam-qhān dr<ej>ouma-thu. br<őz>umu-qha-do gr-uqh-uloror-yem-bal"
say-NARR.POL-CONJ "say-IMP.RUD2 <INF>do-why <EMP>drown-IND.RUD2-TOP <PEJ>scorpion-SG.INTR_DEF.FEM-ERG"
and said, "Why did the scorpion do that? Now the scorpion will drown, (too)."

[ˈaðamimɔɾvɛavuɾaːˌmaːzlum ˈbɔːlgumɔɾvɛavuɾaːˌmaːzlɛm ˈamgɾulɔˌɾɔɾʎɛm]
athami-mor-veavur-āmā-zlum bōlgu-mor-veavur-āmā-zlem am-gruloror-yem
desire-NEUT-strong-PERM.DESC.UNIF-5DEG.COMP will-NEUT-NEUT-strong-PERM.DESC.UNIF-3DEG.COMP said_by-scorpion-SG.INTR_DEF.FEM
"Desire stronger than will," said the scorpion.

[ˈabɾanuinaˌmɔɾʒa]
"abran-u-inam-or-ja"
inner_nature-SG.DEF.NEUT-1.POSS-COP-IND.RUD
"It's my nature."
Last edited by Bagliun Edar on Fri 02 May 2014, 03:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by thetha » Fri 02 May 2014, 03:46

Here's my attempt at a :que: Cusqueño Quechua translation. There is a good chance that there's one or two mistakes, but I imitated the rhetorical style of the Quechua stories I've read as best I could. I'm quite pleased with this actually, it only (haha) took me an hour!

Atuq Ninaq'arantin

Ninaq'araqa mayu kantupi purishaspa huq kantuman chimpananpichá yuyakushasqa.
Qunqaymanta atuqtas rikusqa.
Mayuta chimpaspa wasayki patapi apaway atuqmansi tapusqa.
"Manayá! Chayta ruwayman ch'ikawanki, chaymanta hiq'ipasaqmi," atuq nisqa.
"Chayta ruwaymantaq, iskayninchis hiq'ipasunchis" ninaq'ara sullullchasqa.
Chaypi atuqsi yuyakusqa, chaymanta p'uchukaypi allipunakusqaku.
Chaypi ninaq'aras wasankama siqasqa, atuq wayt'ayta qallarisqa.
Ichaqa, mayu kuskallankama chimpasqakupi ninaq'ara ch'ikasqa.
Miyu sirk'anta hillp'uspaqa atuq ninaq'aramansi muyukusqa, chaypi "Imarayku ruwaranki? Kaypi hiq'ipankipas!"
"Manan tapkakuytachu atirani," ninaq'ara nisqa. "Tiqsirunkhuyllamanta kan."


(glosses are in the spoiler)
Spoiler:
fox scorpion-INCL

scorpion=TOP river bank-LOC walk-CONT-DEP.PRES other bank-ALL cross-DEP.FUT-3-LOC=INFER think-CONT-NARR
suddenly fox-ACC=HS see-NARR
river-ACC cross-DEP.PRES back-2.POSS top-LOC take-1.OBJ-IMP fox-ALL=HS ask-NARR
NEG-EMOT DEM-ACC do-1-COND sting-1.OBJ-2 DEM-ABL drown-1.FUT=DIR fox say-NARR
DEM-ACC do-1-COND-CONTR two-12.POSS drown-12.FUT scorpion promise-NARR
DEM-LOC fox=HS think.about-NARR DEM-ABL finally agree-RECIP-NARR-PL
DEM-LOC scorpion=HS back-3.POSS-TERM mount-NARR fox swim-INF-ACC begin-NARR
but river half-LIM-TERM cross-DEP.PST-PL-LOC scorpion sting-NARR
poison veins-3.POSS-ACC fill-DEP.PRES-TOP fox scorpion-ALL=REP turn-REFL-NARR, DEM-LOC what-because do-PST-2 DEM-LOC drown-2-ADD
NEG=DIR stop-REFL-INF-ACC=N.AFF able-PST-1 scorpion say-NARR nature-1.POSS-LIM-ABL be-3
Last edited by thetha on Sun 04 May 2014, 18:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by DesEsseintes » Sat 03 May 2014, 17:58

:con: Nınuıntı

Lıanumıc ra Rauhııpılıc

Cuu rauhııpılıc tacuıuıca up hamua lıaamac ra macuıuıca tu autaı paga lıaamac uput.
Aıat tana lıanumıc hııc camaıut.
Ra ıca lıanumıc haıcaı paıgıaat naul cacugat ıa garaıcı lıaamac.
Lıı cana lıanumıc: "Igaı rıı rıı. Ataıga nıınıl; aıntııtıua, hıı luntaıga gıpaıua."
Lıı haınıat rauhııpılıc: "Ataıga nıınıl; luntagın uanuıgın."
Macıuıuca lıanumıc hıı aucıcua up tuıulut.
Hıı tara rauhııpılıc ıanaul cacua lıanumıc hıı aılcıa lıanumıc hıncaıat.
Lıı tana up pıntılıut hahıncaıancı ıa garaıcı lıaamac ra aıntıa rauhııpılıc lıanumıc.
Maılıa rırul lıaamacıuta maampıa ın lıanumıc ra tanaat cata rauhııpılıc hıı cana ıaat: "Ataıtı nıınıl ıamuut? Luntaıtı mumına up nıınıl."
Cana rauhııpılıc: "Gıım ancaua tuıtıımııga. Aı nıınıl hıcınua."

Spoiler:
Cuu rauhııpılıc tacuıuıca up hamua lıaamac ra macuıuıca tu autaı paga lıaamac uput.
PAST.COP scorpion walk<DIM>-3sm by along river and think<DIM> DEM way cross-3sm river by=3sn

Aıat tana lıanumıc hııc camaıut.
COP=3sm see-3sm fox from time-DIM

Ra ıca lıanumıc haıcaı paıgıaat naul cacugat ıa garaıcı lıaamac.
and ask-3sm fox NMLZ-ask-NMLZ cross<CAUS>-3sm=3sm on back=3sm to other.side river

Lıı cana lıanumıc: "Igaı rıı rıı. Ataıga nıınıl; aıntııtıua, hıı luntaıga gıpaıua."
but say-3sm fox | no bad bad | do-1s this-NMLZ.N sting-2s=1s then drown-1s perish<NMLZ>=1s

Lıı haınıat rauhııpılıc: "Ataıga nıınıl; luntagın uanuıgın."
but calm.down<CAUS>-3sm=3sm scorpion | do-1s this-NMLZ.N drown-1p two=1p

Macıuıuca lıanumıc hıı aucıcua up tuıulut.
think<DIM>-3s fox then agree-3sm by end=3sn

Hıı tara rauhııpılıc ıanaul cacua lıanumıc hıı aılcıa lıanumıc hıncaıat.
then climb-3sm scorpion to-on back fox and start-3sm fox swim-NMLZ=3sm

Lıı tana up pıntılıut hahıncaıancı ıa garaıcı lıaamac ra aıntıa rauhııpılıc lıanumıc.
but see-3sm by half-DIM NMLZ-swim-NMLZ=3pm to other.side river and sting-3sm scorpion fox

Maılıa rırul lıaamacıuta maampıa ın lıanumıc ra tanaat cata rauhııpılıc hıı cana ıaat: "Ataıtı nıınıl ıamuut? Luntaıtı mumına up nıınıl."
fill.up<CAUS>-3sn poison river-DIM-PL blood of fox and see-3sn=3sm look-3sm scorpion then say to=3sm | do-2s this-NMLZ.N to-what | drown-2s both-2s by this-NMLZ.N

Cana rauhııpılıc: "Gıım ancaua tuıtıımııga. Aı nıınıl hıcınua."
say-3sm scorpion | NEG.COP ability=1s stop<CAUS>-REFL-1s | COP this-NMLZ.N nature-1s

IPA and literal translation may follow in a day or two...
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Re: The Fox and the Scorpion

Post by clawgrip » Sun 04 May 2014, 14:12

:con: Himmaswa

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Bnar ler pduiloum nek swendeul

Bia dgorp swendeul kih bgaiy gwaday ley jem hwai jok bee gek logiap deu.
Moangchoa swendeul petmjur pduiloum gmar.
Swendeul booay pduiloum noh duool bot hwai jesgeu lik ley ptiahbchejgooay jok gwa choo.
Pduiloum hoyblaa heat yoan hwai bot chai dang duool mgay tek hwai euotgliañ klaang geut.
Swendeul nteyyot pduiloum tek heat yoan hwai chai dang garng euotgliañ daak.
Pduiloum diangchdor wui tek chnorntaa wgoysgung.
Aadang bia swendeul je dua lik ler pduiloum tui jark lerch.
Aacheung larngjuk ler lerch jok swendeul mgay pduiloum.
Flet bia yuyah jgeng ñgarkleh keun pduiloum chdeetoy swendeul tek heat duool chai lognom leut? Aasbiat hwai gang euotglian daak teuol.
Swendeul heat mgay ngtiahchdor dgorp daak. Chijouk nteygmar yang.


Spoiler:
Bnar ler pduilum nek swendeul
event belong.to fox included.with scorpion
Bia dgorp swendeul kih bgaiy gwaday ley jem hwai jok bee gek logiap deu.
time happen scorpion follow.along IMPERF riverbank and consider 1 cross reach opposite.side how Q

Moangchoa swendeul petmjur pduiloum gmar.
suddenly scorpion notice fox exist

Swendeul booay pduiloum noh duool bot hwai jesgeu lik ley ptiahbchejgooay jok gwa choo.
scorpion request fox COMP 2 consent 1 sit.down.on back and carry.someone.to.somewhere cross river HORT

Pduiloum hoyblaa heat yoan hwai bot chai dang duool mgay tek hwai euotgliañ klaang geut.
fox refuse say if 1 consent do then 2 pierce then 1 drown EPIS EMPH

Swendeul nteyyot pduiloum ley heat yoan hwai chai dang garng euotgliañ daak.
scorpion comfort fox then say if 1 do then both drown EMPH

Pduiloum diangchdor wui tek chnorntaa wgoysgung.
fox think.carefully then after.a.while agree

Aadang bia swendeul je dua lik ler pduiloum tui jark lerch.
therefore time scorpion board PERF back belong.to fox 3 begin swim

Aacheung larngjuk ler lerch jok swendeul mgay pduiloum.
however the middle.of.action belong swim cross scorpion pierce fox

Flet bia yuyah jgeng ñgarkleh keun pduiloum chdeetoy swendeul tek heat duool chai lognom leut? Aasbiat hwai gang euotglian daak teuol.
arrive time poison enter vein belong.to fox turn-face scorpion then say 2 do why EMPH | because.of.that 1 both drown EMPH EMPH

Swendeul heat mgay keun ngtiahchdor dgorp daak. Chijouk nteygmar yang.
scorpion say sting TOP alone-complete INTR EMPH | disposition cause HORT
Last edited by clawgrip on Wed 07 May 2014, 16:18, edited 5 times in total.
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