He feels lied to

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All4Ɇn
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He feels lied to

Post by All4Ɇn » Fri 30 Dec 2016, 09:34

This sentence popped in my head and I realized how interesting of one it is in English. Can't say with absolute certainty that I could translate it into any other languages that I know

:eng: He feels lied to.
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Dormouse559
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Dormouse559 » Fri 30 Dec 2016, 17:15

Here's how I'd translate it to French. Mentir à is the usual translation of lie to, but you can't passivize an intransitive verb like in English. However, there are transitive verbs, like tromper, that have nearly the same meaning.

:fra: French

Il se sent trompé.
/il sə sɑ̃ tʁɔ̃.pe/
M-3SG.NOM 3SG.REFL feel.3SG.PRS.IND deceive-PST_PTCP
He feels lied to.
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by masako » Fri 30 Dec 2016, 17:24

Kala:

어하 냐 토가 도노
eha nya tloka tono
/ɛˈɦa ɲaː t͡ɬoːˈka toːˈno/
P.3sg by lie feel
He feels lied to.
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Chagen
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Chagen » Fri 30 Dec 2016, 19:13

:con: Pazmat

In Pazmat the literal translation of this would be "He feels towards a state of having been lied to/deceived, using a participial form of ver- "decieve, trick":

vūrratīm burstū
deceive-PTCPL.PST.PSS-ATHEM-DAT feel.emotion.AOR-3S

If one wishes to emphasize being deceived by one particular incident (not just in general), then sentence is the same except the participle is now definite: vūrratāyīm burstū

An alternative method is to use the genitive of the participle with the post-particle "like, as if"--the combination of these with the genitive markers ...tṛ/bas dūburst in casual speech has slurred together into taddu and baddu, so vūrrattaddu as opposed to the "correct" vūrratṛ dū (burstū). This make be used with any adjective, not just participles: sinsātaddu! "(I) feel great (lit. "happy")!" Even in more formal speech, the final verb is rarely pronounced.
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Omzinesý » Fri 30 Dec 2016, 23:56

In Finnish this is quite tricky. The one below is the best I came up with.

Hän tuntee itsensä valentelun uhriksi.
he feels hinself lying.GEN victim.TRANSL
'He feels lied to.'
lit. 'He feels like a victim of lying.'


It isn't easy even with a transitive verb.

Hän tuntee itsensä unohdetuksi.
He feels himself forgotten.TRANSL
'He feels forgotten.'


There is a similar verb X:stä tuntuu Y:ltä. It takes the experiencer (X) in the elative and the feeling in the ablative (Y). I just cannot say if it's OK with a participle at all.
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Void » Sat 31 Dec 2016, 19:24

И сънъдъ слѣба ирзьдона.
[ji ˈsĭnʲĭdĭ ˈslʲæba ˈjirzĭdona]
3SG-MASC feel-3SG.PRS self-NOM.MASC deceive-PST.PART-MASC.INST
He feels lied to.
kíghamit hvejôšei tárhúdor
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Lambuzhao » Sat 31 Dec 2016, 22:12

:esp:

él se siente decepcionado
3SG.M.NOM 3SG.RFLX feel<PRS>3SG deceive<PST.PTCP>M.SG
Lit. He feels himself deceived.

Every 40th line of dialogue of just about every telenovela goes something like-

peroooo ... es que me siento decepcionada...
Followed by the "Scared Marmot" (or whatever they call it) music.
lame The Way We Were rip-off instrumental music.

Can just about set your clock to it.
:roll:

Oh yes, desilusionado is also used pretty frequently (in the telenovelas, at least).
The difference is, while decepcionado is more at 'deceived' or 'lied to',
desilusionado is closer to 'built up with a whole bunch of lies, and then left to crash and burn after the truth is revealed', which is certainly the more ratings-worthy of the two options.

OMG, Stefano DiMera, the architect of destruction from Days of Our Lives, has also joined the choir celestial.

2016, you have reached yet a new high in suckage. [}:(]

Well, at lest my mum (RIP) will be in good company - he was her favorite baddie. [}:D]
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Lambuzhao » Sat 31 Dec 2016, 22:39

Image Rozwi

Xeŋguek waya swætriš eyæ nibesæc.
opine<PRS>3SG CNJ speak<SBJV>3PL 3SG.M.OBJ fraud<PL>ACC
He's of the opinion that they may be speaking frauds to him.

waya likes to have irrealis clauses ( SBJV, OPT), as if to say-

He feels lied to (but he's not 100% sure).

I dunno if certainty/vividness was a part of the initial test-run criteria. [:S]

If one wants to say in Rozwi "He's 97~100% certain that he was lied to", one could say-

Xeŋguek θowo (eiχō) sveitoseinaš eyæ nibesæc.
opine<PRS>3SG REL ADV speak<PLUP>3PL 3SG.M.OBJ fraud<PL>ACC
He's of the opinion that they (indeed, actually) spoke frauds to him.
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Lambuzhao » Sat 31 Dec 2016, 23:04

Image Sadrås

Vfåla sjhj uördetrigght.
feel<PRS> RFLX=3SG.M.OBJ word=deceive<PST.PASS.PTCP>

Or

Sjvfåla he uördetrigght.

He feels himself word-deceived.
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Creyeditor » Sun 01 Jan 2017, 04:00

:deu: :de-hh: German
A literal translation doesn't work for me. It sounds as if 'being lied to' is a property instead of a potential action.

*Er fühlt sich angelogen.
[ɐ̟ ˈfyːlt sɪç ˈʔa.ŋə.ˌloːŋ]
Er fühl-t sich an-ge-log-en.
3SG.M.NOM feel-3SG.PRS REFL.3 to-PTCP-lie-PTCP
He feels lied to.

Er fühlt sich als wäre er angelogen worden.
[ɐ̟ ˈfyːlt sɪç ʔalts ˈveː ʔɐ̟ ˈʔa.ŋə.ˌloːŋ ˈvɔːn]
Er fühl-t sich als wäre er an-ge-logen word-en.
3SG.M.NOM feel-3SG.PRS REFL.3 as CONJ.3SG 3SG.M.NOM to-PTCP-lie-PTCP AUX.PASS-INF
He feels, as if he has been lied to.
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Iyionaku » Mon 02 Jan 2017, 11:42

Creyeditor wrote::deu: :de-hh: German
A literal translation doesn't work for me. It sounds as if 'being lied to' is a property instead of a potential action.

*Er fühlt sich angelogen.
[ɐ̟ ˈfyːlt sɪç ˈʔa.ŋə.ˌloːŋ]
Er fühl-t sich an-ge-log-en.
3SG.M.NOM feel-3SG.PRS REFL.3 to-PTCP-lie-PTCP
He feels lied to.
What seems to work is Er fühlt sich belogen. Just compare to often-heard sentences like "Ich fühl mich so verarscht!" etc.
Heaven and Earth, but I feel the color of the cake when you keep the Victoria.
I had a mantra on the moss and I had to go to bed.


Oh, and there is a [ɕ] in my name!
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Lao Kou » Mon 02 Jan 2017, 12:04

Image Géarthnuns

Söb la bök égbaukh pthön.
3SG AUX.PRES PTCL.PRESPRF.DATPASS lie feel
He feels lied to.
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by masako » Mon 02 Jan 2017, 14:22

Ilya:

duyu ulyak
/duˈju ulˈjak/
feel-3sg lie-INS
He feels lied to. (He feels via lie.)
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Jojo87 » Thu 05 Jan 2017, 16:08

:con: mọs

salu retimerus
feel lie.to-PASS
he feels deceived
Currently working on: :con: Maurs mọs
---
Usual disclaimer about English not being my native language bla bla bla.
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Creyeditor
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Creyeditor » Thu 05 Jan 2017, 21:00

Iyionaku wrote:
Creyeditor wrote::deu: :de-hh: German
A literal translation doesn't work for me. It sounds as if 'being lied to' is a property instead of a potential action.

*Er fühlt sich angelogen.
[ɐ̟ ˈfyːlt sɪç ˈʔa.ŋə.ˌloːŋ]
Er fühl-t sich an-ge-log-en.
3SG.M.NOM feel-3SG.PRS REFL.3 to-PTCP-lie-PTCP
He feels lied to.
What seems to work is Er fühlt sich belogen. Just compare to often-heard sentences like "Ich fühl mich so verarscht!" etc.
Well the second one works vor me, but the first one is still weird for me. Maybe because 'belogen' is not as gradable as "verarscht"? "Ich fühle mich so belogen" sounds better than the above, but still strange to me. Maybe also because "sich verarscht fühlen" is a conventionalized description of a feeling?
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Khemehekis » Sun 15 Oct 2017, 23:34

I actually cover sentences like this in my Kankonian grammar!


First of all . . .

To translate an end-of-sentence preposition with a passive voice, add the passive suffix and tense suffix onto the connective:

Ham amal ukal we polus ashizen.
this bed clear ADV jump on-PSV-PST
This bed has clearly been jumped on.

This ability to add -iz to connectives also works with "ai" (to have, in sentences like "Tom has his eyes closed"):

Mega on en hanenzi av wan ayen usleletz ashizen adul na wan.
Mega NEG PST upset when 3s have-PST vomit on-PSV-PST floor of 3s
Mega was not upset when she had her floor vomited on.

In these constructions with passive connectives, it is also possible to slip a direct object between the verb and the connective:

Zhered ad is supung ama kelkes ihemizen.
brother to 1s often play trick-PL towards-PSV-PST
My brother was often played tricks on. / People would often play tricks on my brother.

Or even a prepositional phrase:

Dazirzis uspis pai omen naizen dyu baizhizis.
police_officer spit into face of-PSV-PST by arrested
The cop was spat in the face of by the arrested.



Now . . .

For passive participles with linking verbs (other than "to be", which is simply the voice suffix -iz), make the linking verb passive (and appropriately conjugated) while leaving the verb in its infinitive form:

Hames shures meshizas zdapad.
that-PL flower-PL look-PSV-PRS trample
Those flowers look trampled.

Ham seshui adluiizas vifi*.
this food smell-PSV-PRS fry
This food smells fried.



Finally . . .

With passive participles with linking verbs (as in the sentence "Those flowers look trampled"), make the linking verb passive and do not add an inflectional suffix onto either the action verb or the connective:

Ham hakamar adluiizas uswawan ash.
that T-shirt smell-PSV-PRS urinate on
That T-shirt smells peed on.



So "He feels lied to" would be . . .

Wan kureshizas alshpitz ad.
3s feel-PSV-PRS lie to
He feels lied to.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 55,000 words and counting

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Re: He feels lied to

Post by marvelous » Tue 17 Oct 2017, 08:57

:epo: Esperanto

In Esperanto you can technically say "li sentas sin almensogita" but that's not the way it is typically said. More idiomatic in this case is to say it in a similar way to how it is said in French:

Li sentas sin trompita.
/li ˈsen.tas sin tromˈpi.ta/
PRO.3SG.MASC feel-PRSNT PRO.RFLX-ACC deceive-PART.PRF.PAS-ADJ
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Imralu » Tue 17 Oct 2017, 17:59

:tan: Swahili:

I'll do all of the examples (to the best of my ability) by Khemehekis as well. Swahili makes extensive use of applicative verb forms, which can also be passivised.

Anahisi (kwamba / kuwa) ameambiwa uwongo.
a-na-hisi (kwamba / ku-w-a) a-me-ambi-w-a uwongo
1-PRES-feel (C / INF(15)-be-Ø) 1-PRF-tell-PASS-Ø lie(14)

He feels lied to. / He feels (that) he has been told a lie.

The verb -ambia "tell" is the applicative form of a verb -amba "say" which is no longer in common use, replaced mostly by -sema. -amba is however the source of the complementiser kwamba as well as the relative pronouns beginning with amba-. Kuwa the infinitive/gerund of "to be" can also be used as a complementiser.

Ni wazi kwamba kitanda hiki kimerukiwa.
ni wazi kwamba kitanda hiki ki-me-ruk-i-w-a
COP clear/obvious C bed(7) DEM.PROX.7 7-PRF-jump/fly-APPL-PASS-Ø

This bed has clearly been jumped on. / It is clear that this bed has been jumped on.

Mega hakukasirika sakafu yake ilipotapikiwa.
Mega h-a-ku-kasirik-a sakafu y-ake i-li-po-tapik-i-w-a
Mega(1) NEG-1-PST.NEG-become.angry-Ø floor(9) 9-GEN.3s 9-PST-16.REL-vomit-APPL-PASS-Ø

Mega was not upset when her floor was vomited on.

Mara nyingi kaka yangu alitaniwa / alidanganywa.
mara ny-ingi kaka y-angu a-li-tan-i-w-a / a-li-dangany-w-a
time/occasion(9/10) 9/10-many brother(9/10) 9-GEN.1s 1-PST-cleave-APPL-PASS-Ø / 1-PST-deceive-PASS-Ø

My brother was often played tricks on / fooled / deceived

With alitaniwa it's probably more like he had his leg pulled, but it also just indicates that someone is on familiar terms with someone else, with a kind of banter-ous ease, whereas alidanganywa sounds more serious, like he got scammed. -tania "to pull somebody's leg" seems to be the applicative form of -tana "to cleave, disect, split". -danganya is not applicative. It's just a nice old-fashioned transitive verb.

Polisi alitemewa mate usoni na aliyekamatwa.
polisi a-li-tem-e-w-a mate uso-ni na a-li-ye-kamat-w-a
police(9/10) 1-PST-spit-APPL-PASS-Ø saliva(6) face-LOC COM 1-PST-1.REL-seize-PASS-Ø

The police officer was spat in the face of by the arrested.

Polisi can mean either the police force or individual police officers depending on animate (class 1/2) or inanimate (class 9/10) agreement.

This sentence demonstrates the funny thing about Swahili transitivity that is almost like English. The applicative (here -e-) indicates that the spat-upon is promoted to object, and this is then promoted to subject by passivisation (here -w-), leaving the saliva (mate) and the "face place"
usoni just kind of hanging as unmarked nouns. In English, an indirect object can be promoted to subject by passivisation, but in Swahili there really only seems to be one type of object allowed and anything else needed in the sentence is just thrown in, along with locative nouns, which are semantically locative but syntactically unmarked.

The animate agent of passive verbs is introduced by na and in this case, I've just used a relative verb as the head of the noun phrase rather than throwing a dummy noun in there like mtu "person".


Maua yale yanaonekana kuwa yamekanyagwa.
maua ya-le ya-na-onekan-a ku-w-a ya-me-kanyag-w-a
flowers(6) 6-DEM.DIST 6-PRES-appear-Ø INF(15)-be-Ø 6-PRF-trample-PASS-Ø

Those flowers look trampled. / These flowers appear to have been trampled.

Chakula hiki kina harufu ya mkaangizo.
chakula hiki ki-na harufu y-a mkaangizo
food(7) DEM.PROX.7 7-COM scent(9/10) 9-GEN fried.food(3)

This food smells fried. / This food has the scent of fried food.

Shati lile linanuka kana kwamba limekojolewa.
shati li-le li-na-nuk-a kana kwamba li-me-kojo-le-w-a
shirt(5) 5-DEM.DIST 5-PRES-smell.bad-Ø as.if C 5-PRF-urinate-APPL-PASS-Ø

That shirt smells (as if it has been) peed on.

There's a funny idiomatic quirk of the applicative with the word -nuka. Inanuka means "it smells bad" whereas inanukia, with the applicative in red, means "it smells good".

Also, the phrase as if / as though is represented by kana kwamba. You can also say kama kwamba "like/as/if that" but for some reason,
it's more common with an n ... kana in this phrase, so it was not as easy to gloss, I guess.

With verbs whose stems end in /o/ or /u/, and in the standard language (although not so in many dialects) also /a/, the passive is marked by -lew- or -liw- (depending on vowel harmony) rather than just -w- found after consonants and front vowels, meaning that the applicative passive cannot be distinguished from the non-applicative passive. Context usually clears it up though because, of course, it's not often that you would say a shirt has been peed ... but rather, that it has been peed on.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Khemehekis » Wed 18 Oct 2017, 04:42

Imralu, thank you for doing all my Kankonian sentences! Truly fascinating. (And I never thought I'd see a Swahili sentence that uses Mega, a Kankonian girl's name.)

Now I have some ideas for doing these sentences in other Lehola Galaxy langs. After all, I can't make the grammar in all of them work like Kankonian's!
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 55,000 words and counting

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Re: He feels lied to

Post by Reyzadren » Thu 19 Oct 2017, 00:33

:con: griuskant (without the conscript)

raes haema krajan.
/'res 'hema 'kradʒan/
3SG feel-V lie-V-PASS
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