A man walks into a bar

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Xing
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A man walks into a bar

Post by Xing » Sat 29 Jul 2017, 21:14

:eng: A man walks into a bar

Being able to handle this sentence is essential of you want to translate bar jokes into your (con)lang. Apart from that, it might show how you handle verb vs satellite framing.

:con: Waku

The most general way of expressing something similar to the English expression would be:

Ko laka o bwaru mwena. 'A man went to the bar.'
PRET go DAT bar man

Here, the general word of 'go' (or 'move' or 'travel' etc.) – laka – is used. In order to specify the way in which he enters the bar, one can use the word olo, 'to walk', 'to go by foot':

Ko olo o bwaru mwena. 'A man walked to the bar.'
PRET walk DAT bar man

The verb olo is derived from the noun olo, which means 'foot' or 'leg'. In contrast to 'pure', underived verbs like laka, verbs derived from nouns do not have plural forms:

Ko lakalaka o bwaru mwena e gorilla. – 'A man and a gorilla went into a bar.'
PRET PL.go DAT bar man and gorilla

Ko olo o bwaru mwena e gorilla. – 'A man and a gorilla walked into a bar.'
PRET walk DAY bar man and gorilla

I made up the word for 'gorilla' on the spot. I'll have to include it in my dictionary.

We have still only used the general lative/dative prepositon, o. To say specifically that our man went inside the bar (and not just went there to hang outside), we might say something like this:

Ko olo o loka o bwaru mwena. 'A man walked to the inside of a bar.'
PRET walk DAT inside DAT bar man

However, if it's understood from context that the man went to the bar in order to drink (or do something that one typically does inside a bar, rather than outside in, or on its roof, etc.), one might prefer to say just ...o bwaru ('to the/a bar'), rather than ...o loka o bwaru ('into the/a bar').

In general speech, it might be more natural to say something like this, if we are talking about an unspecified man:

Nea mwena ko olo o bwaru. – 'There's a man who walked (in)to a bar.'
be man PRET walk DAT bar

Or:

Ko nea mwena olo o bwaru. – 'There was a man who walks into a bar.'

Not that the preterite is generally used in story-telling. The Wakus despise the historical present.
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Re: A man walks into a bar

Post by Creyeditor » Sat 29 Jul 2017, 22:23

:con: Lōri (My Polyneselang)

Yāruiya tasdangda dashareya faksusu.
[ˈjaː.ɾu̟ɪ̯.ja tas.ˈd̥ãŋ.da ˈdas.ha.ˌɾe.ja ˈfak̚.su̥.su̥]
ya-aru-i-ya tas-tangda tas\I-fare-ya fak-susu
3-go-LOC-3SG INDEF-man INDEF\LOC-house-3SG VBLZR-drink
'A man walks into a bar.'


This sentence uses double marking so it's more something like 'to enter into a bar' (just without the 'inside' meaning, only allative-like 'to'). It's also pretty long, because I used overt indefinite marking and there is no native word for bar so I just did a parallel calque to reastaurant. I guess jokes would be more likely to start with a sentence, where a man walks into a house.

Yāruiya tangda hare.
[ˈjaː.ɾ̞u̟ɪ̯.ja ˈtãŋ.da ˈha.ɾe̝̙]
ya-aru-i-ya tangda fare\I
3-go-LOC-3 man house\LOC
'A man walks into a house.'

If you mention the man in the next sentence again (e.g. The man looks aroun) you should use the indefinite on man though. If the next sentence is about something else in the house (e.g. There is a fire), you should not use the indefinite on man.

I don't think it would be common to use a relational word, to specify that he went inside of the house. If you say you go to a house, you go into it, duh [xD]
So, I have to work on prepositions now.

The sentence is also interesting, because it is the start of a conversation and only features indefinites. Not that easy if your language requires a topic in each sentence.
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Re: A man walks into a bar

Post by Imralu » Sat 29 Jul 2017, 22:28

:tan: Swahili:

Mwanaume aingia kwenye baa.
mwana(m)ume Ö-a-ingia kw-enye baa
man(1) 1-AOR-enter 17-having bar

A man goes into a bar.

I'm assuming aorist would be used for this. Kwenye could simply be glossed as "LOC", it could also be replaced with katika, which is very common, but I prefer the sound of kwenye.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Re: A man walks into a bar

Post by marvelous » Sun 30 Jul 2017, 11:24

:con: Ganur Lon

Munet me anc ca'le'bazolt.
/ˈmunet me anc caleˈbazolt/
mun-et me anc ca=le=baz-olt
father-more.general TOP walk.or.go LAT=INES=club-drink

A man, he goes/walks to in drinking club.
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Re: A man walks into a bar

Post by Omzinesý » Sun 30 Jul 2017, 12:01

Kôrem is very analytical with those verbs.
Verb sep has the directional meaning, no deictic or manner meaning.
Manner is coded by an noun in the instrumental function.
(Kôrem avoids indefinite specific topics, so a existential much appear 'There is a man, he...'.

ello pon, sep Segti bara.
ello p<o>n, s<e>p segti bara
man.INDEF exist.NFUT<PAT>, go.to.NFUT<AG> foot.DEF bar.INDEF
'A man walked into a bar.

Diathesis may be varied. Instrument and location are though coded identically on the verb.

Segti sup ello bara
segti s<u>p ello bara
foot.DEF go.to.NFUT<LOC/INSTR> man.INDEF bar.INDEF
'By foot was how a man went to a bar.

bara pon, sup ello Segti.
bara p<o>n, s<u>p ello Segti
bar.INDEF exist.NFUT<PAT>, go.to.NFUT<LOC/INSTR> man.INDEF foot.DEF
'A bar was walked in by a man.'
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Re: A man walks into a bar

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 30 Jul 2017, 18:05

Yaza ʔeno ʔō ʔolyuek ʔenauθ nektukabuktauθ , ʕa…
CNJ INDEF<SG>NOM man.NOM.SG enter<PRS>3SG INDEF<SG>ACC tavern.SG.ACC | CNJ
On the on hand, a certain man enters a certain bar, and…

This could be put into the past, but then that has less of a 'joke' feel, and then feels more anecdotal or a didactic~parable sort of short saying.

Then again, jokes teach us something, and have a speck of a lesson inside.
:wat:
Last edited by Lambuzhao on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 18:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A man walks into a bar

Post by Void » Sun 30 Jul 2017, 18:08

:con: Hieratic Shurturian

Venger dheki panardá.
[ˈʋɛŋgɛr ˈðɛki ˈpɑnɑrdɑː]
man walk-3SG.PRS tavern-LAT.in
A man walks into a bar.

A question: would a language with various movement cases be considered a verb-framing language?
mihor odh jörhönsüd šarhur zahrastakram

uhra róksud rétthírselle murgga arraukun duhšankatas
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Re: A man walks into a bar

Post by Xing » Mon 31 Jul 2017, 03:49

At an earlier stage, Waku was more verb-framing. I couldn't find the entry for 'to enter' – I think I had it in an earlier dictionary – so I made up a few new entries, allowing for more verb-framing constructions:

Ko mite a mwena bwaru.
[ko mʲite a mˠeːna
PRET go_into ERG man bar
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Re: A man walks into a bar

Post by Xing » Mon 31 Jul 2017, 04:49

Konungr wrote::con: Hieratic Shurturian

Venger dheki panardá.
[ˈʋɛŋgɛr ˈðɛki ˈpɑnɑrdɑː]
man walk-3SG.PRS tavern-LAT.in
A man walks into a bar.

A question: would a language with various movement cases be considered a verb-framing language?
Don't think so; a verb-framing language would somehow encode (direction of) movement in the verb. Or does the verb translated as 'walk' in this case say something about the direction of walking? (Like 'walk-into', 'walk-away', etc.?) A classical test is how you translate a sentence like 'we swam into the cave'.

In any case, you don't have to choose between verb- and satellite framing. You can use a mixture of both (like English), or you could use neither. Say you have a language with three verbs. Then you'd probably have to encode both direction and manner etc. of movement somewhere else than in the choice of verbs.
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Re: A man walks into a bar

Post by Iyionaku » Mon 31 Jul 2017, 08:20

:con: Yélian

Broya pucuret pès glutan...
[ˈbɾoːʃɐ pʉˈkuːɾə̆‿pɛs ˈgluːtɐn]
man come_in-3SG to bar
A man walks into a bar...

:con: Caelian

Mo bordyek mob tokdubyak byäis...
[mɔ bɔɾˈdʲɛk mɔb tʰɔkduˈbʲak bʲæɪ̯ʃ]
INDEF.MASC.NOM man.NOM INDEF.MASC.ILL bar.ILL COP.3SG>3SG
A man walks into a bar...

:con: Ular

男人啤寮在去他。。。
Rărngō pŭpál phūlhù tōn...

man bar enter 3.ANIM
A man walks into a bar...
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Re: A man walks into a bar

Post by marvelous » Mon 31 Jul 2017, 12:19

:eng: A man walks into a bar.

:con: Boriomanco

Un omon ambla inna daborna.
/un ˈomon ˈambla ˈinna daˈborna/
un omon ambl-a in-na daborna
INDEF.M man walk-PRSNT in-INDEF.F bar
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Re: A man walks into a bar

Post by Parlox » Sun 22 Oct 2017, 18:38

:con: Makǔdorın

Sǒuǰathsun ats dzanyusho kaǒgaš
[sɘɯd͡ʒat̪sɯn at͡s d͡zancɯshɤ kaɘgaʃ]
Walk-PRES.ACT.TRANS that bar-INN.SING man
A man walks into the bar (lit, man is walking in that bar)

In this phrase there is no equivalent of "to", instead it is assumed to be in the context of walking into, and not having already been in and walking.

:con: Podmåri

Vånårbóyn sodi sóyyabsyósa
[vɑnɑɹpʼɤin sɑdɪ sɤjappʼsiɤsa]
Walk-3RDTR.3RDTR-IPFV man bar-INN-DEF
A man walks into the bar (lit, man is walking in the bard)

Once again, as above. "To" is assumed.

:con: Gwynwth

Wae cerĝdded en tyn in bâch’r
[waɛ kɛɹʁðɛd ɛn tɪn in bɑxɹ]
be.PRES.AFF.SING.3RD walk to man in bar-DEF
A man walks into the bar (lit, a man is walking in to the bar)

:con: Nymburun

Badfas bunyma llan ddaçŷymlyçon
[badvaʃ bɯnɪma ɬan ðasjɪmlɪsɤn]
Man be.PROG.IPFV.SING.3RD walk bar-ALL.PRES
A man walks into the bar (lit, a man is walking towards the bar)

In this phrase it is presumed that the man is walking into the bar. Though there is a better way to say this phrase, this would be the most common method.

I would have posted translations in a few other conlangs, though the list above is already a bit long.
My main conlangs are Podmåri, and Gwynwth.
i have several other smaller conlangs, such as Tänggorosepero , Makǔdorın, La Patagonê, and Nòvgraďà.
Along with a unnamed sign language, and multiple conlangs that are on hold.
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Re: A man walks into a bar

Post by Reyzadren » Mon 23 Oct 2017, 01:21

:con: griuskant (without the conscript)

er yurda ki sevou.
/'ər 'jurda ki 'səvɔu/
person walk-V to cafe
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Re: A man walks into a bar

Post by Lao Kou » Thu 26 Oct 2017, 13:55

Image Géarthnuns

Sö dhaubs lü sí jürdhalsív nadínzdanez.
INDEF man-NOM AUX.TRANSC INDEF bar-LOC walk.into
A man walks into a bar.

Image Japoné語

Un 男 oué il ga 歩mi入rë un 飲mi屋 ni.
Un hotôcau oué il ga ayoumihirë un nômiya ni.
INDEF man TOP 3SG NOM walk.in-PRES INDEF bar ALL
A man walks into a bar.
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名
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Re: A man walks into a bar

Post by Creyeditor » Mon 30 Oct 2017, 21:24

:con: Project Tri 3
Lafana et zulnat silran.
[laˈfaːnaː ɛt ˈdzuːlnat ˈsiːlran]
lafana-a et zuln-at silran
go\PST.ACT-3SG PREP.OBL aim\A.PASS-NMLZ-PSSD drink\ACT.NMLZ-LOC
A man walked into a bar.

You use the past in jokes. No special word order. Allative is expressed by a relational noun goal, derived from the verb aim (i.e. lit. that which is aimed at) plus an oblique preposition. A bar is a "place of drinking" derived from the verb root for 'to drink'. The subject pronoun is dropped because person and number is marked on the verb.
interestingly the roots in this sentence are only verbs and a preposition. Go figure.
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Re: A man walks into a bar

Post by Iyionaku » Thu 23 Nov 2017, 13:22

:chn: Mandarin?

一个男人进来酒吧。。。
Yī gè nánrén jìnlai jiǔbā...
[i˧˥ kɤ˥˩ nan˧˥ʒən˧˥ ͡tɕɪn˥˩laɪ̯˧˥ ͡tɕɪ̯eʊ̯˨˩pa˥]
one CL man get_in bar
A man walks into a bar
Heaven and Earth, but I feel the color of the cake when you keep the Victoria.
I had a mantra on the moss and I had to go to bed.


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