Driving like a madman

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Salmoneus
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Driving like a madman

Post by Salmoneus » Sun 17 Dec 2017, 01:31

A few of the more commonplace sentences that one might find in phrasebooks, but that I don't think have been translated yet.

Bystyre he ofta løy ta tha gieggelmann í tha Paris a’ tha Thusdja
/bI"sty:r he Qft@ l2I t@ D~ gi@g@lman i: D@ pa"ri:s a D@ DUzdj@/
drive he: often like to the madman-DAT in the Paris at the Thursday-DAT
He often drives like a madman in Paris on Thursdays

[NB. 'like a madman' here is literal, referring to irrationality, not merely to, as the translation might wrongly suggest due to English idiom, driving at speed.]

An tha head, wreate he iggeler, løy ta tha gieggelmann as í tha Paris site
/an D@ he@d re@t he: Ig@l@r l2I t@ D@ gi@g@lman az i: D@ pa"ri:s zi:t/
on the head, draw he hedgehod-PL, like to the madman-DAT REL in the Paris sit-3sg
On his head, he draws hedgehogs, like the madman in Paris


Wreate he ofta thar wrétha dąyly iggeler
/re@t he: Qft@ thar wrE:T@ dAIli: Ig@l@r/
draw he often there anger-ADV day-ADV hedgehog-PL
he often draws hedgehogs angrily there during the day

Bystyre he bila løy wreate gieggelmąnn iggeler
/bI"sty:r he bi:l@ l2I re@t gi@g@lmAn Ig@l@r/
drive he car-PL like draw madman hedgehog-PL
He drives cars like a madman draws hedgehogs



Why these sentences?
Well, there are I think a couple of interesting issues here. The obvious one is to look at adverbial position and order in a range of circumstances. We also have comparisons, disambigution in sequences of prepositional phrases, and a few interesting vocabulary items (car, madman, hedgehog), as well as the way of tying events to day names, which can be tricky in some languages. And the name of an old European city.
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Driving like a madman

Post by DesEsseintes » Sun 17 Dec 2017, 02:44

I just absolutely love the words gieggelmąnn and iggeler! [<3]
Salmoneus
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Re: Driving like a madman

Post by Salmoneus » Sun 17 Dec 2017, 15:02

DesEsseintes wrote:
Sun 17 Dec 2017, 02:44
I just absolutely love the words gieggelmąnn and iggeler! [<3]
Confession: sometimes I cheat slightly to make nicer words. Although actually it turns out my 'cheat' for 'iggeler' (singular: 'iggel') is actually perfectly justified (gemination of stops before /l/, which apparently happens not-quite-regularly across Germanic).

Anyway, 'iggel' is cognate to German 'Igel', but has unforgivably been lost in English, and become a word for sea urchins in North Germanic.

I don't have a rock-solid etymology for 'gieggelmąnn' either. It's obviously cognate to English 'giggle', and the -el is a frequentative/diminutive suffix. But it's not clear what the PGmc is. Wiktionary has a Middle English "gigen", "to creak", which may be related to the German and Norse words for a violin, or not, and etymonline just guesses 'imitative'. We may also look at similar words with /b/ (English 'gibber', German 'gibbeln'). In any case, we can assume something similar in this language (there seem to be a number of words that crop up in multiple Germanic languages without having a really clear etymology, so I'm not too worried about that). The initial /g/, instead of /j/, may also be irregular (loanword? imitative?), or there may be some refinement of the rules that I can introduce. Anyway, the word means what it looks like - man who giggles (ie lunatic).
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Lambuzhao
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Re: Driving like a madman

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 17 Dec 2017, 15:42

Before Bluetooth, certainly a "man who gibbers" {apparently to oneself} could've also been considered a mandman.

Nowadays, they're just on the blower.
Mostly.
[;)]
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Lambuzhao
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Re: Driving like a madman

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 17 Dec 2017, 16:37

Anyway, 'iggel' is cognate to German 'Igel', but has unforgivably been lost in English, and become a word for sea urchins in North Germanic.
My favorite Steiffs were iggels (Iggelen) , be it Joggi or Micki or Mecki.


Much better than 'grovel hog'. Heck, I'd even take 'higgle' for a hedgehog.

I mean, heck, who could forget Hans my Higgle?

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/a5/8e/66/a58e ... vie-tv.jpg


Apparently, Youtube has, thanks to LDS Family :mrred:



Looking up something unrelated for a journal entry, I stumbled on this little gem:

:non: Njarðarvöttr
'Njord's glove/mitten' = sponge

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/19/81/ed ... 371350.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/78/d4/37/78d4 ... attern.jpg

Njordgaunt Fourhornhosen

[+1] [<3]
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Lambuzhao
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Re: Driving like a madman

Post by Lambuzhao » Sun 17 Dec 2017, 18:03

:con: Sådras

durive he mecehïre æs tuo änes Mûndzüchnes ë þë Paricge þeßes Dôrsteges.
drive<PRS> 3SG.M.NOM ADV ADV PRP INDEF.M.GEN.SG insane.GEN.SG PRP DEF.F.OBJ.SG <Paris>OBJ.SG DEF.F.GEN.PL Thursday.GEN.PL

scuribble he vïre Neadelpfergglî duon hem Kopfe æs tuo änes Mûndzüchnes ë þë Paricge .
scrawl<PRS> 3SG.M.NOM INDEF.PL.OBJ hedgehog<PL>OBJ PRP 3SG.M.GEN head.OBJ.SG ADV PRP INDEF.M.GEN.SG insane.GEN.SG PRP DEF.F.OBJ.SG <Paris>OBJ.SG

scuribble he geiteræbün mecehïre vïre Neadelpfergglî dirë geihinne glirgghte Sôlne.
scrawl<PRS> 3SG.M.NOM anger<ADJZ>SG.NOM ADV INDEF.PL.OBJ hedgehog<PL>OBJ ADV=PRP REL.ADV shine<PST.PTCP>OBJ sun.OBJ.SG

durive he vïre Weaggene æs tuo änes Mûndzüchnes scuribblünes yös Neadelpfergglî
drive<PRS> 3SG.M.NOM INDEF<PL>OBJ wagon<PL>OBJ ADV PRP INDEF.M.GEN.SG insane.GEN.SG scrawl<PRS.PTCP>GEN.SG DEF.N.PL.OBJ hedgehog<PL>OBJ


mavollej geafe dåc drifghðen der Mûndzüchen æs tuo yös Nædelpfergglis rettünes ë hej Pfugole (!)
COVRB<PST>=1SG.NOM give<PFT> REL drive<SBJV> DEF.M.SG insane.NOM.SG ADV PRP DEF.N.GEN.SG hedgehog.GEN.SG ride<PRS.PTCP>GEN.SG PRP 3SG.N.GEN bird.OBJ
O would that the madman drove like a hedgehog riding a rooster (!)
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Re: Driving like a madman

Post by Reyzadren » Sat 23 Dec 2017, 23:42

:con: griuskant (without the conscript)

raes ilkous shriaca iki bloupen vuzh paeris vozh yaldgau.
/'res 'ilkɔus 'ʃriatʃa 'iki 'blɔupən vuʒ 'peris vɔʒ 'jaldgau/
3SG more.times drive-V like crazy-N-PASS at Paris during work.day

raes venta mulsi yaed vuzh rauk iki paeris bloupen.
/'res 'vənta 'mulsi 'jed vuʒ 'rauk 'iki 'peris 'blɔupən/
3SG draw-V sharp-A animal at head like Paris crazy-N-PASS

raes ilkous ithki venta zhaeg vozh nilith.
/'res 'ilkɔus 'iθki 'vənta 'ʒeg vɔʒ 'niliθ/
3SG more.times angry-A draw there during morning

raes shriaca sun iki bloupen venta mulsi yaed.
/'res 'ʃriatʃa 'sun iki 'blɔupən 'vənta 'mulsi 'jed/
3SG drive-V car like crazy-N-PASS draw-V sharp-A animal
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Dormouse559
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Re: Driving like a madman

Post by Dormouse559 » Mon 25 Dec 2017, 04:23

:con: Silvish

Li men-e souvèn com'en fòlt a Pariji lou dijeùs.
[liˈmẽ.ə suˈvɛ̃n ko.mɛ̃ˈfɔlt a.pəˈʁi.ʑi lu.diˈʑœs]
3SG-NOM drive often like=INDEF madman PREP paris-OBL DEF-M.C* thursday

He often drives like a madman in Paris on Thursdays

Sur sui tæs, li dessengne d'ritçònt com'li fòlt a Parije.
[syʁ.sɥiˈtɛːs li.dɛˈsɛ̃ɲ.ɲə dʁiˈsɔ̃nt ko.mliˈfɔlt a.pəˈʁi.ʑə]
on 3SG-POSS.OBL head.OBL 3SG-NOM draw PART=hedgehog-PL like=DEF-M.N* madman PREP paris-OBL

On his head, he draws hedgehogs, like the madman in Paris

L'i-ddessengne souvèn avè maleji d'ritçònt lou joùr.
[lid.dɛˈsɛ̃ɲ.ɲə suˈvɛ̃n əˈve məˈle.ʑi dʁiˈsɔ̃nt luˈʑuʁ]
3SG=there=draw often with anger-OBL PART=hedgehog-PL DEF-M.C day

he often draws hedgehogs angrily there during the day

Li men-e la-vvætû come c'en fòlt dessængne lou ritçònt.
[liˈmẽ.ə lav.vɛˈtyː ko.me.kɛ̃ˈfɔlt dɛˈsɛ̃ːɲ.ɲə lu.ʁiˈsɔ̃nt]
3SG-NOM drive DEF=PL-car like SBRD=INDEF madman draw.SBJV_PRS DEF-M.C hedgehog-PL

He drives cars like a madman draws hedgehogs

* N = "noble" or human-associated gender
C = "common" or non-human-associated gender



A look at Salmoneus' points of interest:
Spoiler:
Salmoneus wrote:adverbial position and order in a range of circumstances
Silvish does things a lot like English. But a lot of adverbs and some fixed adverbial phrases go directly after the conjugated verb. Also, adverbials can't go directly before the verb. One exception is the adverbial pronoun i, meaning roughly "there". You'll find that in the third sentence.
Salmoneus wrote:comparisons
This comparison of actions triggers the subjunctive. In this case, it's what's called the present subjunctive, which indicates a factual. For a counterfactual meaning (He drives cars like a madman would draw hedgehogs), you would use a form called the imprerfect subjunctive.
Salmoneus wrote:disambigution in sequences of prepositional phrases
The Silvish is about as ambiguous as the English, especially regarding whether the madman or "he" is supposed to be in Paris. You could make it clear it's the madman by relativizing "a Parije/ in Paris".
Salmoneus wrote:a few interesting vocabulary items (car, madman, hedgehog)
These are, respectively: vætû [vɛˈtyː], fòlt [ˈfɔlt], ritcò [ʁiˈso]
Salmoneus wrote:the way of tying events to day names
For a habitual event, like in the first sentence, the day name takes a definite article (lou dijeùs = on Thursdays). If the event is a one-time thing, the day name is used on its own (dijeùs = on Thursday).
Salmoneus wrote:the name of an old European city
Paris = Parì [pəˈʁi] (oblique: Pariji [pəˈʁi.ʑi])
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Re: Driving like a madman

Post by spanick » Wed 27 Dec 2017, 17:51

:con: Modern Gotski

Uft dravd hu doman te en Pariš at Fezordajas.
/uft draːvd huː doːman te en pariʃ at fezordajas/
often IPFV-drive-3SG how madman-M.NOM.SG REL in Paris\N.GEN.SG at Thursday\M.ACC.PL
He often drives like a madman in Paris on Thursdays

Teknjdž jelas, an esas huvuds, hu doman te en Pariš.
/teːkɲdʒ jelas an esas huːvuds huː doːman te en pariʃ/
IPFV-draw-3SG hedgehog-M.ACC.PL on 3SG-M.GEN.SG head-M.GEN.SG how madman-M.NOM.SG REL in Paris\N.GEN.SG
On his head, he draws hedgehogs, like the madman in Paris

Uft teknjdž med vods tar terh dag.
/uft teːkɲdʒ med voːds tar terx dag/
often IPFV-draw-3SG with anger-M.GEN.SG there through day-M.ACC.SG
He often draws hedgehogs angrily there during the day

Dravd auton hu doman te teknjdž jelas.
/draːvd auton huː doːman te teːkɲdʒ jelas/
IPFV-drive-3.mSG car-F.ACC.PL how madman-M.NOM.SG REL IPFV-draw-3SG hedgehog-M.ACC.PL
He drives cars like a madman draws hedgehogs
Last edited by spanick on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 18:14, edited 1 time in total.
Iyionaku
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Re: Driving like a madman

Post by Iyionaku » Wed 27 Dec 2017, 18:00

:con: Yélian
Lambuzhao wrote:
Sun 17 Dec 2017, 16:37
Anyway, 'iggel' is cognate to German 'Igel', but has unforgivably been lost in English, and become a word for sea urchins in North Germanic.
In German as well. Sea urchins are "Seeigel" in High German.
Lambuzhao wrote:
Sun 17 Dec 2017, 16:37
My favorite Steiffs were iggels (Iggelen) , be it Joggi or Micki or Mecki.
By the way, the town where I studied is only 10km away from the headquarters of Steiff ;)

:con: Yélian

I honestly wasn't sure what was idiom and what was not, but as Lambuzhao, Griuskant and Dormouse all followed it more or less literally, I'll stick with it as well.

Licilvatan, auptayiet cet neidor væ Parí.
[lɨˈkilvɐtɐn, aʊ̯̆ˈpaɕɪ̯ət‿ət ˈnɛɪ̯dɔ̈d̟ və pɐˈɾiː]
thursday-PL, often-drive-3SG like madman in Paris
He often drives like a madman in Paris on Thursdays

Tyîyet racun pas to bobas cet a'neidor væ Parí.
[ˈt͡ʃiːɕət ˈɾaːkʉn pɐs to ˈboːbɐʃ kət ɐˈnɛɪ̯dɔ̈d̟ və pɐˈɾiː]
draw-3SG hedgehog-PL on 3SG.POSS head like DEF.ANIM=madman in Paris
On his head, he draws hedgehogs, like the madman in Paris

Fumilvat aupagratyîyet racun atonúm.
[ɸʉˈmilvɐt aʊ̯pɐgɾɐˈt͡ʃiːɕət ˈɾaːkʉn ɐtɔ̈ˈnuːm]
during_day often-angry-draw-3SG hedgehog-PL there
He often draws hedgehogs angrily there during the day

Te tayiet aélicon poucet neidori mia tyîyet racun.
[tə ˈtaɕɪ̯ət ɐˈeːlɨkɔ̈n ˈpɔʊ̯kət ˈnɛɪ̯dɔɾi ˈmi.ɐ ˈt͡ʃiːɕət ˈɾaːkʉn]
3SG.MASC.REC draw-3SG car-PL like madman-ENUM one draw-3SG hedgehog-PL
He drives cars like a madman draws hedgehogs

Another look at Salmoneus' points of interest:
Spoiler:
Salmoneus wrote:adverbial position and order in a range of circumstances
Unlike, English, Yélian usually puts the time before the place. If the time frame is essential to the action (as in this translation challenge), it's mostly put before the subject. Some adverbials are bound classifiers that have to be prefixed to the verb (aup, meaning often, is an example).
Salmoneus wrote:comparisons
Comparisons require either the preposition cet (like) or the conjunction poucet (literally "also like")
Salmoneus wrote:disambigution in sequences of prepositional phrases
If you want to emphasize that it's the man who is in Paris, not the madman, you would put the local adverbial before the comparison: ]Licilvatan, auptayiet væ Parí cet neidori mia.
Salmoneus wrote:a few interesting vocabulary items (car, madman, hedgehog)
1. aélico [ɐˈeːlɨko] - car
Etymology: Derives from the Proto-Mendric root *šlc, roughly referring to pace, on-going processes etc. Cognates include yélicur (evening), Yélian (the Yélian people) and elica (to destroy), but not, although you could propably think, licilvat (Thursday) - this derives from the root *lcn (thunder, attraction).
2. neidor [ˈnɛɪ̯dɔ̈d̟] - madman
From neid (crazy) + personal suffix -or
3. racu [ˈɾaːku] - hedgehog
New root, coined from "rautku" in this lexicon sculpting thread; the similarity of the plural form racun to "racoon" is unintentional
Salmoneus wrote:the way of tying events to day names
For a habitual event, like in the first sentence, the day name is simply put in plural. If you want you can put the temporal preposition u in front of it, but this is facultative. If the event is a one-time thing, the day name is in Singular.
Salmoneus wrote:the name of an old European city
Paris = Parí [pəˈɾiː]
[/quote]
Heaven and Earth, but I feel the color of the cake when you keep the Victoria.
I had a mantra on the moss and I had to go to bed.


Oh, and there is a [ɕ] in my name!
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