Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Thu 04 Jan 2018, 07:29

...how is that list relevant?
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Khemehekis » Thu 04 Jan 2018, 07:38

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 07:29
...how is that list relevant?
It can help All4Ɇn look for unintentional gaps. For instance, I noticed All4Ɇn included "platypus", but has no marsupials.
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My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » Thu 04 Jan 2018, 07:46

Khemehekis wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 07:38
It can help All4Ɇn look for unintentional gaps. For instance, I noticed All4Ɇn included "platypus", but has no marsupials.
Just added a few more mammals to the list
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Khemehekis » Thu 04 Jan 2018, 07:47

All4Ɇn wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 07:46
Khemehekis wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 07:38
It can help All4Ɇn look for unintentional gaps. For instance, I noticed All4Ɇn included "platypus", but has no marsupials.
Just added a few more mammals to the list
I checked out the additions -- awesome! In particular I got a chuckle out of how the "llama" transliteration translates as "Roman beast". And "sheep camel" is beautiful for alpaca.

EDIT: Reminds me of this thread.
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My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » Thu 04 Jan 2018, 07:57

Khemehekis wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 07:47
I checked out the additions -- awesome! In particular I got a chuckle out of how the "llama" transliteration translates as "Roman beast". And "sheep camel" is beautiful for alpaca.

EDIT: Reminds me of this thread.
Thanks [:D]. I've really had to think out of the box with animal names since so few are known from proto-Chamic. Plus Vietnamese uses a huge number of animal names derived from other words so it only makes since that Ởnh·Vú would do the same.
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Khemehekis » Thu 04 Jan 2018, 08:05

All4Ɇn wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 07:57
Thanks [:D]. I've really had to think out of the box with animal names since so few are known from proto-Chamic. Plus Vietnamese uses a huge number of animal names derived from other words so it only makes since that Ởnh·Vú would do the same.
You're welcome. I think "goblin pig" for tapir is a pretty awesome concoction -- did you come up with that all by yourself, or does it have precedent in some other Southeast Asian language?
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Thu 04 Jan 2018, 10:28

Khemehekis wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 07:38
Thrice Xandvii wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 07:29
...how is that list relevant?
It can help All4Ɇn look for unintentional gaps. For instance, I noticed All4Ɇn included "platypus", but has no marsupials.
It can, and apparently has already, it just seemed to come out of nowhere since you didn't really preface the post with any kind of rationale. Apologies to All4en if I've rained on this wonderful parade overmuch.

(However, @Khemehekis, you may want to toss those lists into spoilers for brevity's sake.)
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » Thu 04 Jan 2018, 23:18

Khemehekis wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 08:05
You're welcome. I think "goblin pig" for tapir is a pretty awesome concoction -- did you come up with that all by yourself, or does it have precedent in some other Southeast Asian language?
As far as I know there's not. But the word for Tapir in Japanese, 獏, is also the word for an Tapir-like spirit that feeds on dreams so there is an Eastern precedence for comparing them to supernatural creatures
Thrice Xandvii wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 10:28
It can, and apparently has already, it just seemed to come out of nowhere since you didn't really preface the post with any kind of rationale. Apologies to All4en if I've rained on this wonderful parade overmuch.
Oh no I was really confused as to why it was posted myself. It wasn't until I started to notice how many words I had left out that I realized what I assumed was the reason it was posted. [:)]
Thrice Xandvii wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 10:28
(However, @Khemehekis, you may want to toss those lists into spoilers for brevity's sake.)
I too agree with this
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Khemehekis » Fri 05 Jan 2018, 05:31

All4Ɇn wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 23:18
Khemehekis wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 08:05
You're welcome. I think "goblin pig" for tapir is a pretty awesome concoction -- did you come up with that all by yourself, or does it have precedent in some other Southeast Asian language?
As far as I know there's not. But the word for Tapir in Japanese, 獏, is also the word for an Tapir-like spirit that feeds on dreams so there is an Eastern precedence for comparing them to supernatural creatures
Ah, yes, the word "baku". Japanese seems to have a thing with mythical animals being used for real ones: "kirin" can also mean giraffe and "kitsune" can also mean fox. (Of course, English does this too, with hydras, Komodo dragons, goblin spiders, cyclops plankton, and medusas. Oh, and this creature.)
Thrice Xandvii wrote:
Thu 04 Jan 2018, 10:28
(However, @Khemehekis, you may want to toss those lists into spoilers for brevity's sake.)
I too agree with this
I've done this now. Question: Should all long lists of words on this board be in spoiler tags?
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My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Fri 05 Jan 2018, 05:56

Maybe not all of them as a rule, but I'd think any list one could define as "long" might be good to consider the option. Seems like the more tangential to the thread the list, the more good in spoiling.
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » Sat 06 Jan 2018, 02:42

Spoiler:
Khemehekis wrote:
Fri 05 Jan 2018, 05:31
cyclops plankton
So that's why Plankton only has one eye!
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » Sat 06 Jan 2018, 05:06

The 4 Main Ways Of Writing
Hopefully this post isn't too long! Even though it only concerns the ways a word can be written, I think this is a very important topic to bring up

1. Latin Alphabet
Writing in the Latin alphabet is fairly uncommon and only occurs in the following situations:
1. In books meant for kids who don't know any Chữ Nôm yet
2. For sorting in dictionaries
3. To give the pronunciation of a character that one may not know (very common with names)
4. When inputting text on a computer

2. Chữ Nôm
A lot of written texts are written solely in Chữ Nôm (aside from direct loanwords that must be written in the Latin alphabet). These texts are either simple enough that a reader should have no trouble with any Chữ Nôm in them, or are formal texts where the use of the Latin alphabet is looked down upon. Essays are almost always written this way.

3. Chữ Nôm With Ruby Characters
A large amount of written texts are written with a combination of Chữ Nôm and Latin script ruby characters. Because younger kids aren't familiar with most Chữ Nôm, most books for kids are written entirely in Chữ Nôm but with ruby characters above every character. As a book's difficulty increases, the number of ruby characters usually goes down with it. However, because of the huge amount of characters in Ởnh·Vú it's not uncommon at all to find a few ruby characters even in very complicated books. Some words are practically never seen without ruby characters. Two words like this are 𧋟 (Naoc), meaning mosquito, and 𧋟 (Mữr), meaning termite. Because both of these words are written with 𧋟, it'd be practically impossible to tell them apart without the ruby characters. On occasions they can also be seen above directly borrowed words written in the Latin script as a way to provide a rough Ởnh·Vú pronunciation for the term such as something like "É·bơ·ra·hàm Lính·còn" for "Abraham Lincoln"

4. Note Taking
When taking notes it's most common to use a mix of Chữ Nôm with Latin Script based on what's the quickest to write and easiest to understand. Simplified characters are commonly used too.

Samples
Here are some examples of the different ways to write in each style using the Ởnh·Vú translation of the sentence: "Abraham Lincoln was the 16th president of the United States and served from 1861 to 1865."

Abraham·Lincoln nãnh đè sủ·nam nìm mí·túnh·tũonh, sơnh tam·tanh đì tén·bet·bac·luc·it nen tén·bet·bac·luc·vó nen.
Abraham·Lincoln罖第16任美總統、仍擔當自1861年自1865年。
Abraham·Lincoln罖第16任美túnh·tũonh、仍tam当自1861年自1865年。
Last edited by All4Ɇn on Mon 16 Apr 2018, 05:59, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Khemehekis » Sat 06 Jan 2018, 23:55

Spoiler:
All4Ɇn wrote:
Sat 06 Jan 2018, 02:42
Khemehekis wrote:
Fri 05 Jan 2018, 05:31
cyclops plankton
So that's why Plankton only has one eye!
Yep.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclops_(genus)
Also, you may want to check what century Abraham Lincoln served as president! [:D]
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My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » Sun 07 Jan 2018, 00:32

Khemehekis wrote:
Sat 06 Jan 2018, 23:55
Also, you may want to check what century Abraham Lincoln served as president! [:D]
[xD] I got it right when I had to write it out in the alphabet, but 8 and 9 look a lot alike and I sometimes accidentally mix them up in dates.
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » Mon 08 Jan 2018, 01:17

爬蟲爻唄兩居爻 (Bà·Đùnh·Lìo Nanh Lứnh·Cư·Lìo)- Reptiles And Amphibians
Thought I'd get back to the animal vocab [:)]

Lizards
蠑𤌄 (Chi·Chả)- Lizard
龍蠑𤌄 (Lưonh·Chi·Chả)- (Spotted) Flying Dragon (literally Dragon Lizard)
鰂蜞 (Tác·Kè)- (Tokay) Gecko
釯鰂蜞 (Gior·Tác·Kè)- Chameleon (literally Rainbow Gecko)
Komodo龍 (Komodo Lưonh)- Komodo Dragon
𣭛龍 (Bur·Lưonh)- Agamid/Indo-Chinese Forest Lizard (literally Mane Dragon)
大𣭛龍 (Đày·Bur·Lưonh)- Iguana (literally Big Agamid)
*鼉 (Pãy)- Monitor Lizard
*大鼉 (Đày·Pãy)- Water Monitor (literally Big Monitor Lizard)
洱鼉 (Nir·Pãy)- Nile Monitor

Snakes
𧋻 (Vãr)- Snake
虺𠰘 (Cỏ·Bả)- (King) Cobra (literally Striking Mouth; based on a nativized pronunciation of Cobra)
毒蛇 (Đuoc·Gia)- Venomous Snake/Viper
蟒 (Sảnh)- (Burmese) Python or Boa (in non-scientific everyday use)
海蟒 (Hứy·Sảnh)- Reticulated Python (literally Sea Python)
北美蟒 (Pơc·Mí·Sảnh)- Boa (Constrictor) (literally South American Python)

Turtles
龜 (Cở)- Turtle/Tortoise
𤿦龜 (Cuich·Cở)- Leatherback Sea Turtle
大龜 (Đày·Cở)- Giant Tortoise (literally Big Turtle)
海龜 (Hứy·Cở)- Sea Turtle
𠗰龜 (Pã·Cở)- (Chinese) Softshell Turtle (literally Slippery Turtle)
𧓮龜 (Ri·Cở)- Olive Ridley Sea Turtle
還劍龜 (Ứn·Kèm·Cở)- Hoàn Kiếm Turtle
玳瑁 (Đừy·Mùy)- Hawksbill Sea Turtle

Crocodilians
䱸 (Bứy)- (Saltwater) Crocodile
沼䱸 (Chớ·Bứy)- Mugger Crocodile (literally Swamp Crocodile)
𥐍𡂅䱸 (Cỏ·Ãonh·Bứy)- (Chinese) Alligator (literally Short Snout Crocodile)
美𥐍𡂅䱸 (Mí·Cỏ·Ãonh·Bứy)- American Alligator
印度䱸 (Ìn·Đùo·Bứy)- Gharial/Gavial (literally Indian Crocodile)

Ampibians
蜍㭲 (An·Ronh)- Toad
𧊕 (Ãnh)- Salamander
𧉙𧊕 (Lãnh·Ãnh)- Caecilian (literally Worm Salamander)
彌西𧊕 (Me·Xí·Ãnh)- Axolotl (literally Mexican Salamander)
鰔 (Chưnh)- Newt
螠ヌ (Gep·Gep)- Frog
鯢 (Yảch)- (Chinese) Giant Salamander
美鯢 (Mí·Yảch)- Hellbender (literally American Giant Salamander)

*In scientific usage, 鼉 is the word for monitors in general while 大鼉 refers specifically to the water monitor. In everyday speech, 大鼉 is commonly used to refer to both the water monitor as well as monitors in general
Last edited by All4Ɇn on Fri 29 Jun 2018, 23:43, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » Wed 10 Jan 2018, 22:27

魚爻 (Vu·Lìo)- Fish

Cartilaginous Fish
𩼸𩵜 (Á·Yãnh)- (Giant Oceanic Manta) Ray/Skate
䳧𩼸𩵜 (Cãnh·Á·Yãnh)- Stingray (literally Hawk Ray)
䱸ヌ (Bứy·Bứy)- Shark (literally Crocodile Crocodile)
大壯䱸ヌ (Đày·Có·Bứy·Bứy)- Great White Shark
𤞺䱸ヌ (Mã·Bứy·Bứy)- Tiger Shark (literally Fox Shark)
鑡䱸ヌ (Ử·Bứy·Bứy)- Sawshark (literally Sawfish Shark)
鑡 (Ử)- Sawfish
𩵜庯 (Yãnh·Po)- Whale Shark (literally Mister Fish)

Generic Fish
鰍 (Cãm)- Mackerel
䱛 (Đĩt)- Perch/Bass
金魚 (Ghim·Vu)- Goldfish
香魚 (Hưnh·Vu)- Ayu/Sweetfish (literally Fragrant Fish)
陰陽𩵜 (Ìm·Yưnh·Yãnh)- Carp/Koi (literally Yin-Yang Fish)
粓西𩵜 (La·Xí·Yãnh)- (Pacific Bluefin) Tuna (literally Meal Fish)
瀂𩵜 (Rỏ·Yãnh)- Salmon/Trout/Whitefish (literally Pink Fish)
鯕𩵜 (Sỏy·Yãnh)- (Common) Dolphinfish
暹𩵜 (Xãm·Yãnh)- Siamese Fighting Fish (literally Siamese Fish)

Weird Fish
鯔𩵜 (Bur·Yãnh)- Catfish
䱸𩵜 (Bứy·Yãnh)- Barracuda (literally Crocodile Fish)
哥㺝𩵜 (Ca·Sữr·Yãnh)- Porcupinefish
鰱 (Cãor)- (Asian Swamp) Eel
電鰱 (Đèn·Cãor)- Electric Eel
𠔭𧷺眜鰱 (Sưinh·Bõ·Mã·Cãor)- Lamprey (literally Eight Eyed Eel)
𦡮𥐈𩵜 (Cuich·Só·Yãnh)- Lungfish
大𣭛𩵜 (Đày·Bur·Yãnh)- Sailfish (literally Big Mane Fish)
鮋𩵜 (Duc·Yãnh)- Stonefish/Scorpionfish
劍𩵜 (Kèm·Yãnh)- Swordfish
氣𩵜 (Kĩ·Yãnh)- Pufferfish/Blowfish (literally Air Fish)
矛尾魚 (Mu·Mứy·Vu)- Coelacanth
滝𩵜 (Nã·Yãnh)- (Giant) Oarfish (literally Naga Fish)
𠸬刀 (Lưy·Đao)- Marlin (literally Swimming Sword)
鮟𩵜 (Pa·Yãnh)- Anglerfish/Monkfish
𠖤𩵜 (Pơr·Yãnh)- Flying Fish
獅魚 (Ri·Vu)- (Red) Lionfish
𦝄𩵜 (Vãn·Yãnh)- (Ocean) Sunfish (literally Moon Fish)
鱘 (Vãnh)- (Green) Sturgeon
鱔 (Yảir)- Moray Eel
Last edited by All4Ɇn on Fri 29 Jun 2018, 23:43, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » Thu 11 Jan 2018, 06:18

Allotony
Just got through making this. I can't believe I hadn't done this yet! Below are the different allotones for the five tones: /˧ ˧˩ ˧˥ ˧˩˧ ˦˧˥/

/˧/ is pronounced as [˦] after /˧˥/ and /˦˧˥/ and in syllables ending in /p̚ t̚ c̚ k̚/
/˧/ is pronounced as [˨˧] after /˧˩/
/˧˩/ is pronounced as [˩] after /˧˩/
/˧˩/ is pronounced as [˨˩] after /˧˩˧/
/˧˥/ is pronounced as [˥] after /˧˥/ and /˦˧˥/
/˧˥/ is pronounced as [˦˥] after /˧˩˧/
Last edited by All4Ɇn on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 22:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Creyeditor » Thu 11 Jan 2018, 15:54

I am asking this because natlang allotonic rules are often iterative.
Suppose you have underlying /˧˩.˧˩.˧˩.˧˩/, do you get [˧˩.˩.˩.˩] (because the rule says every underlying fall is a low after an underlying fall) or do you get [˧˩.˩.˧˩.˩] (because the second surface fall now comes after a low tone and so the allotony does not apply)?
The same question I could ask for other allotonic patterns I guess.
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » Thu 11 Jan 2018, 22:41

Creyeditor wrote:
Thu 11 Jan 2018, 15:54
I am asking this because natlang allotonic rules are often iterative.
Suppose you have underlying /˧˩.˧˩.˧˩.˧˩/, do you get [˧˩.˩.˩.˩] (because the rule says every underlying fall is a low after an underlying fall) or do you get [˧˩.˩.˧˩.˩] (because the second surface fall now comes after a low tone and so the allotony does not apply)?
The same question I could ask for other allotonic patterns I guess.
Great question! Ởnh·Vú's allotones are iterative and so if given /˧˩.˧˩.˧˩.˧˩/, one would pronounce it as [˧˩.˩.˩.˩]
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Khemehekis » Fri 12 Jan 2018, 05:20

All4Ɇn wrote:
Mon 08 Jan 2018, 01:17
虺𠰘 (Cỏ·Bả)- (King) Cobra (literally Striking Mouth; based on a nativized pronunciation of Cobra)
It's amazing that these words match up so well, just like your word for tank!
𧉙𧊕 (Lãnh·Ãnh)- Caecilian (literally Worm Salamander)
I love it!

Hey All4Ɇn, I was going to post the fish, amphibian/reptile, and bird segments of my Landau Core Vocabulary, but then I decided I'd ask you a different question: would you like me to send you the whole LCV? If you PM me your email addy, I can email you the list as I have it tweaked up right now. You'll get lots of animal and plant names, plus a whole lot more (colors, prepositions/postpositions, food and drink, vehicles, weapons, thinking verbs, speaking verbs, verbs of movement, kinship terms, words for physical description, body parts, clothing, medicine, nature, etc.)
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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