False cognates

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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: False cognates

Post by Thrice Xandvii » Mon 12 Feb 2018, 05:01

... but you just did make it like English whether it was on purpose or not.
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Imralu
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Re: False cognates

Post by Imralu » Mon 12 Feb 2018, 07:06

Yeah, unless you've used a word generator or derived it somehow, either diachronically or by some language-internal means and it's come from something very unlike the natlang word in question language you know (like if jeur came from giol < igola < ik+olna, for example), conlangs are not really a good source of "false cognates" because if you're just using pure inspiration, you can't say what precisely influenced your thoughts.

What I find really cool though is when some purely inspired stuff (or derived, for that matter) ends up weirdly close to natlang stuff that you definitely did not know about at the time you came up with it. For example, my pronoun system that I've carried through several langs for about the last ten years (I'm a serial monogamist with conlangs and I carry a lot forward to the next one) ... at some point I thought of putting it in Papua New Guinea as a language isolate ... I picked an uninhabited area and then saw that my pronoun system fits there pretty unremarkably.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Imralu
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Re: False cognates

Post by Imralu » Mon 12 Feb 2018, 07:19

:tan: Swahili kama "as", "like"; "if" ... borrowed from Arabic kamaa
:esp: como "as", "like" (and of course cognates in its related languages)
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Shemtov
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » Tue 13 Feb 2018, 19:20

:us-pa: Lenepe /ni/ :jpn: ニ /に /ni/ "Two"
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Re: False cognates

Post by Vlürch » Thu 15 Feb 2018, 07:43

:jpn: (ko) - child
:ind: Nyishi ko - child

:es-pv: hiru - three
:tur: :kur: Zazaki hiru - three
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Shemtov
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » Wed 21 Feb 2018, 05:37

:eng: "Smack" :mex: Jacaltec <smak> /smaq'/ "To hit" :kor: 못 /mos/ [mot] "cannot" :mex: Jacaltec <Mat> "NEG." :irl: :sco: <Clann> :ita: Etruscan /klan/ "Child"
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Re: False cognates

Post by Pabappa » Wed 21 Feb 2018, 18:23

And I'm told that: :eng: spank is not cognate to :por: espancar with a similar meaning. But the derivations are unknown. The Pt word does not seem to appear in any other Romance language.


÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷÷
:isr: Obadiah and :ara: Abdullah, variants of a given name, mean "slave of God", both traceable to the Semitic root ʕ-b-d "slave; to work, serve". Not cognate to :esp: obedecer "obey" or its kin.
Edit: there's also :isr: Obed, mentioned first in Ruth 4:17,
for an even closer match.
Last edited by Pabappa on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 04:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: False cognates

Post by Khemehekis » Sun 25 Feb 2018, 00:51

Assyrian Neo-Aramaic ṭĕrā / :jpn: tori (bird)
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

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Re: False cognates

Post by Pabappa » Sun 25 Feb 2018, 07:09

I thought I did this one already but I couldn't find it on a search....

:fra: échine "spine" != :lat: echinus "hedgehog, sea urchin; spiny animal". There's also :eng: "hedgehog" vs :pie: *héģhis, but the pronunciation of the PIE could be wrong.
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Re: False cognates

Post by Imralu » Tue 27 Feb 2018, 02:27

:eng: ponderous, pound
:tan: Swahili: -ponda "to crush", "to pound"
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Re: False cognates

Post by Imralu » Mon 05 Mar 2018, 06:46

:deu: fegen "to sweep"; :isl: fága "to clean"
:tan: Swahili: -fagia "to sweep"
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Re: False cognates

Post by Imralu » Tue 06 Mar 2018, 19:17

Got a structural one. Both :esp: Spanish and :tan: Swahili use the subjunctive for negative imperatives. The present subjunctive of Spanish a-thematic verbs (-ar verbs), the largest group of verbs, generally involves replacing a with e. In Swahili, all native Bantu verbs end with -a and this is changed to -e for the subjunctive.

Canta! Sing! (singular imperative)
Imba! Sing! (singular imperative)

No cantes! Don't sing! (singular imperative using subjunctive form)
Usiimbe Don't sing! (singular imperative using subjunctive form)

Cantas. = You sing.
Unaimba. = You sing.

Quiero que cantes. I want you to sing.
Nataka uimbe.
Glossing Abbreviations: COMP = comparative, C = complementiser, ACS / ICS = accessible / inaccessible, GDV = gerundive, SPEC / NSPC = specific / non-specific, AG = agent, E = entity (person, animal, thing)
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Re: False cognates

Post by All4Ɇn » Thu 08 Mar 2018, 07:10

:tha: แฟน faen "boyfriend/girlfriend"
:eng: friend

The Thai term is actually borrowed from English fan and also has that meaning as well
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » Fri 16 Mar 2018, 18:07

:geo: /sami/ vs. :hkg: /sam˥/ and :kor: 삼 /sam/ "3"
Note that believers in Dene-Caucasian could say that they are cognates, that :geo: borrowed from a cognate of :ru-kb: /ʃə/
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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano » Fri 16 Mar 2018, 21:14

Shemtov wrote:
Fri 16 Mar 2018, 18:07
:geo: /sami/ vs. :hkg: /sam˥/ and :kor: 삼 /sam/ "3"
The last two actually are cognates. 삼 is a loanword from Chinese. The native Korean word for three is apparently 셋 set.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Shemtov
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » Fri 16 Mar 2018, 23:04

GrandPiano wrote:
Fri 16 Mar 2018, 21:14
Shemtov wrote:
Fri 16 Mar 2018, 18:07
:geo: /sami/ vs. :hkg: /sam˥/ and :kor: 삼 /sam/ "3"
The last two actually are cognates. 삼 is a loanword from Chinese. The native Korean word for three is apparently 셋 set.
I was comparing the :geo: to the two Cognates. Thus "vs." and " :hkg: /sam˥/ and :kor: 삼 /sam/
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
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Re: False cognates

Post by GrandPiano » Fri 16 Mar 2018, 23:27

Shemtov wrote:
Fri 16 Mar 2018, 23:04
GrandPiano wrote:
Fri 16 Mar 2018, 21:14
Shemtov wrote:
Fri 16 Mar 2018, 18:07
:geo: /sami/ vs. :hkg: /sam˥/ and :kor: 삼 /sam/ "3"
The last two actually are cognates. 삼 is a loanword from Chinese. The native Korean word for three is apparently 셋 set.
I was comparing the :geo: to the two Cognates. Thus "vs." and " :hkg: /sam˥/ and :kor: 삼 /sam/
Ah, my bad, then.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2
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Re: False cognates

Post by Tuyono » Sun 25 Mar 2018, 18:09

:isr: mehuma מהומה - mess, a chaotic situation
:eng: mayhem
:isr: (native) :eng: (fluent) :deu: (beginner)
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Re: False cognates

Post by Iyionaku » Thu 29 Mar 2018, 12:19

I think everyone on this board might not be surprised, but for an average person it might be quite surprising that the names of Iraq and Iran are not cognates.

Iraq derives from Arabic العراق al-ʿIrāq, which derives from a Semitic word uruk (related to water, due to the rivers Euphrat and Tigris).
Iran derives from Persian ايران Īrān - from Avestian Aryanam vaeja (Land of the Aryans)
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Re: False cognates

Post by Shemtov » Thu 29 Mar 2018, 17:20

:kor: <프르> [pʰɯɾɯ] "[Stem] To be blue" :eng: Blue
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien
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