Eroki Gǂama

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Eroki Gǂama

Post by Shemtov » Thu 03 May 2018, 22:41

Eroki Gǂama is a language spoken by a nomadic tribe of around two thousand people, on the southwest coast of the same island as the Oman family. It is a part of the ǂamian family,which has influenced Southwest Oman, which has clicks.
Phonology:
/p b t tʰ d k kʰ g/ <p b t t' d k k' g>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ñ>
/ɸ s h/ <f s h>
/w ɹ j/ <w r y>

/ʘ ʘʰ ᶢʘ ǃ ǃʰ ᶢǃ ǂ ǂʰ ᶢǂ/ <ʘ ʘ' gʘ ǃ !' g! ǂ ǂ' gǂ>

/i u e o æ ɑ/ <i u e o ǎ a>

Phonotactics: (C)V
Clicks can only occur before back vowels. Aspirates and/h/ lengthen the vowel.

Nouns part 1:
Nouns have 13 genders, which are numbered, and are shown by prefixes that also show number singular and plural.
Gender I: Male humans. Hagǂarǎdo "boy" !ogǂarǎdo "boys"
Gender II Female humans. Yegǂarǎdo "girl" Migǂarǎdo "girls"
Gender III polar bears, wolves and sealife. K'utafi "wolf" Satafi "wolf"
Gender IV Birds. Tiʘ'uwe "albatross" Gǎʘ'uwe "albatrosses"
Gender V Mammals and insects. G!abit'u "rat" Wǎbit'u "rats"
Gender VI Augmentation of genders I-V. !'utafi "dire wolf" Hutafi "dire wolves"
Gender VII Diminuation of genders I-V. Sitafi"wolf whelp" Hitafi "wolf whelps"

More soon....
Last edited by Shemtov on Fri 04 May 2018, 23:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by kiwikami » Fri 04 May 2018, 01:49

Ahh, you've already won me over with the clicks. Interesting orthographic choice with the ' for aspiration!
Are there ever noun pairs that are distinguished by gender prefix but otherwise homophonous, and would augmenting/diminuating those nouns lead to ambiguity?

Edit: It looks like "boy" and "girl" are a case of this, didn't see that; so if one were to say "little boys/girls", would it be gender-ambiguous?
Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by Shemtov » Fri 04 May 2018, 03:46

kiwikami wrote:
Fri 04 May 2018, 01:49
Ahh, you've already won me over with the clicks. Interesting orthographic choice with the ' for aspiration!
Are there ever noun pairs that are distinguished by gender prefix but otherwise homophonous, and would augmenting/diminuating those nouns lead to ambiguity?

Edit: It looks like "boy" and "girl" are a case of this, didn't see that; so if one were to say "little boys/girls", would it be gender-ambiguous?
Sigǂarǎdo would mean something like "infant/baby". As the language is zero-copula, the phrase Sigǂarǎdo hagǂarǎdo, lit. "The baby is a boy" would serve as an embedded reference to the baby's gender, though verbs take the diminutive marker for agreement.
I also made the language because I realized the conworld doesn't have any clicklangs.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by Shemtov » Sat 05 May 2018, 00:03

Gender VIII Plants, fungi and lichen. Bǎroki "Yellow Poppy" Gʘaroki "Yellow poppies"
Gender IX Natural features. Fǎhori "lake" Fahori "lakes"
Gender X Instruments Sok'a!'uke "arrowhead" Sosok'a!'uke ",arrowheads"
Gender XI Augmentation of Genders VIii-X. ǂ'uhori "large lake; inland sea" Gihori "PLR of above"
Gender XII Dimunative of Genders VIii-X. Rihori "pond" Rehori "ponds"
Gender XIII Abstracts and spiritual objects. Ugǂarǎdo "Soul/Ghost of a child" Wagǂarǎdo "PLR of above"

There are the following cases, which will be shown later: Nominative, Accusative, Genitive-Instrumental, Dative-Lative, Locative-Comatative, Ablative. All except the unmarked NOM have 3 forms: Singular First 7 Genders, Plural First 7 Genders, Last 6 Genders.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by Shemtov » Sun 06 May 2018, 22:48

The cases, as said, have, except the unmarked NOM have 3 forms: Singular First 7 Genders, Plural First 7 Genders, Last 6 Genders. The second form is formed by reduplication or <mǎ> as a suffix. I will mark each case with an (R) for the former, or (M) for the latter, before the declension of the singular. Note that the plural of the gender marker is in place, also.



Gender I <Hagǂarǎdo> "Boy"
Nominative Hagǂarǎdo
Accusative (R) Hagǂarǎdoñe
Genitive-Instrumental (M) Hagǂarǎdosa
Dative-Lative (R) Hagǂarǎdori
Locative-Comatative (R) Hagǂarǎdopo
Ablative (M) Hagǂarǎdomi

Gender X < Sok'a!'uke> "Arrowhead"
Nominative Sok'a!'uke
Accusative Sok'a!'ukeku
Genitive-Instrumental Sok'a!'ukeso
Dative-Lative Sok'a!'ukeg!o
Locative-Comatative Sok'a!'ukeʘ'a
Ablative Sok'a!'ukewǎ

Thus the noun phrase Hagǂarǎdosa sok'a!'ukeʘ'a means "Accompanied by the boy's arrowhead"

Nouns can take possesive suffixes before the case marker. 1P sing. is mo 1P plr. is ka, 2p sing is te, 2p plr is se. Third-person is marked by the appropiate gender prefix.
Sok'a!'ukeha "His arrowhead"
Sok'a!'uketeso "using thy arrowhead"ǂ
Hagǂarǎdomopo "accompanied by my son"

The verb:
The verb is templitic, being preverb-agent-tense-object-root. This post will focus on intransitive verbs.
Intransitive verbs are divided into volitional, which takes nouns in the NOM, and non-,volitional, whose nouns are in the ACC. They may be distinguished by suppletion, or with motion verbs, by different preverbs, for example, Fora "down.VOl" or hat'ǎ "down" may be combined with ʘareku "go-" to mean "lay down; descend into" or "fell" respectively.
The concord markers are the same as the gender prefixes, except for1P and 2P, which will not be discussed here.

The tense markers are:
Non-past:yu
Past: bag!a
Past perfect: k'o
Distan Past/Gnomic: ǂ'u
The last one is used for things that happaned before living memory, or things that known.



Hagǂarǎdo forahabag!aʘareku
"The boy layed down"

Hat'a!oʘareku !ogǂarǎdoñeñe
"The boys have fallen"

Hat'aǂ'ufaʘareku fagibu!otaku
" Long ago, the mountains fell"

Sadogʘi gihori forasaǂ'uʘareku
"Polar bears jump into seas"
Last edited by Shemtov on Thu 10 May 2018, 22:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by Shemtov » Tue 08 May 2018, 19:27

Specificity:
Though Eroki Gǂama, as shown, has no marking for defitenes, it does have markers for specificity. The difference is that while nouns show no marking for defiteness, they take a suffix that means ",that/those very one(s). The singular suffix is t'ǎ, while the plural is t'ǎt'a.

Hagǂarǎdotǎ forahabag!aʘareku
"That very boy lied down"


Hat'a!oʘareku !ogǂarǎdoñeñetǎta
"Those very boys have fallen"
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by eldin raigmore » Tue 08 May 2018, 21:05

Your latest post reads as if you misunderstand the meaning of the _linguistic_ term “specificity” (as a pragmatic status).
Given what I think I know about you that seems unlikely.
So what are you meaning in this case?

Specificity and referentiality are synonymous pragmatic statuses; they mean the speaker has a specific one, or specific ones, to which s/he is referring.
Definite means, specific plus the speaker expects the addressee knows which ones the speaker is talking about.

Turkish, or so I understand, is a language that marks specificity but not definiteness.


——————————

Probably I just didn’t understand your glosses.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by Shemtov » Wed 09 May 2018, 01:45

I got specificity from the SIL grammar of Sandawe. I think I might have misunderstood the explanation.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by eldin raigmore » Wed 09 May 2018, 03:29

Shemtov wrote:
Wed 09 May 2018, 01:45
I got specificity from the SIL grammar of Sandawe. I think I might have misunderstood the explanation.
(1) SIL isn’t always right. For instance, they used to have a definition of “liquid” phoneme that would have excluded most rhotics (e.g. taps and flaps and trills and any other non-approximants).
(1’ : — But as a practical matter they are right way more often than not! Before gainsaying them online I’d try to be sure my hubris were justified!)

(2). Their SIL Glossary of Linguistics Terms’s current definition of “Specificity” is about what I said (except they describe it as a type of definiteness. I said specificity is a prerequisite for definiteness.). Basically “the speaker knows the identity of the referents”.
See https://glossary.sil.org/term/specificity

(3) The notion you’re describing is still very worthwhile even if the label you used for it usually has another meaning. Your glosses seem, to me, to illustrate a kind of hyperdefiniteness, or emphasized definiteness. in my opinion it’s probable some natlang has a way to communicate exactly that; and there’s no reason your conlang shouldn’t. Indeed, your conlang might benefit from such a feature (IMHO) even if no natlang has it. (And as I said I think English probably “almost” has something like it!)

If you can find a natlang that has a very similar phenomenon, and find out what its grammarians call it, you could use their label. Otherwise, make up your own; or use hyperdefinite, or emphatic definiteness, or whatever.

——————

Or if it seems wiser to you, abandon that feature.
(But I hope you don’t!)

———————

Independently;
Lots of natlangs have definite articles and indefinite articles, but don’t have specific/referential articles and don’t have nonspecific/nonreferential articles.
And, lots of natlangs have specific/referential articles (or whatever), and may (or may not) also have ways to mark nonspecific/nonreferential status, without having anything quite so simple to mark definiteness or indefiniteness.

Your conlang could have both a way to mark the specific/referential, and a way to mark the “hyperdefinite”, without having a transparent, simple way to mark the “ordinary” definite. IMNSHO it would be perfectly naturalistic and realistic.


——————

Good luck!

I look forward to reading more.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by Creyeditor » Wed 09 May 2018, 14:24

I just wanted to mention that there are a lot of natlangs with an anaphorical article that can only be used when the word has appeared before in the discourse. I don't know if this is what you (Shemtov) means though.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by Shemtov » Wed 09 May 2018, 15:43

Creyeditor wrote:
Wed 09 May 2018, 14:24
I just wanted to mention that there are a lot of natlangs with an anaphorical article that can only be used when the word has appeared before in the discourse. I don't know if this is what you (Shemtov) means though.
I meant that there is no distinction between the indefinite and the regular definite, but the hyperdefinite is marked. I think that's naturalistic, because that's what I think SIL meant by "Specific" in Sandawe. There may be a finer distinction there though.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by eldin raigmore » Wed 09 May 2018, 20:18

Shemtov wrote:
Wed 09 May 2018, 15:43
Creyeditor wrote:
Wed 09 May 2018, 14:24
I just wanted to mention that there are a lot of natlangs with an anaphorical article that can only be used when the word has appeared before in the discourse. I don't know if this is what you (Shemtov) means though.
I meant that there is no distinction between the indefinite and the regular definite, but the hyperdefinite is marked. I think that's naturalistic, because that's what I think SIL meant by "Specific" in Sandawe. There may be a finer distinction there though.
Is there in your conlang a difference between the nonspecific/nonreferential indefinite and the specific/referential (definite or indefinite)?

—————

As for finer distinctions:
You might enjoy and/or profit from looking at the scale (? right word?) in the SIL Glossary’s entry on “Definiteness”, https://glossary.sil.org/term/definiteness .
And there are other articles I remember reading (or, at least, looking at) about different values for this feature and similar features in natlangs. Don’t have time to look them up at the moment.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by Shemtov » Wed 09 May 2018, 22:51

I think I'm going to make an optional definite marker, as I know that's naturalistic; :bgd: definitively has it.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by Shemtov » Thu 10 May 2018, 22:33

The Collective Noun is a third Number that is marked the same in all gender, by ∅. An example would be Eroki Gǂama itself, as Gǂama is the root for "Person of unspecified gender and age", though it takes the Masculine, Hagǂama, and there are seperate words for men (<Hayenosa>) and women (<Yeyiǂ'ǎ>) and the full name is Eroki Gǂamasa Usefa, though many just call it Eroki Gǂama.

The adjective:
There are three kinds of adjectives: Plain Adjectives, Denominal Adjectives, and Gerunds. I will only consider the first two in this post.

The Plain adjective as predicate, is placed before the noun, and takes its gender marking.
Bǎeroki bǎperak'a
"Yellow Flower [Poetic term for Bǎroki "Yellow Poppy, symbol of the Eroki Gǂam]

Yeeroki yeyiǂ'ǎ
"Woman member of the Eroki Gǂama tribe [Lit. Yellow Woman]"

As an attributive, the order is reversed:
Yeyiǂ'ǎ yeeroki.


Noun adjectives are formed by taking a noun, suffixing <si> to it, and putting the noun it take's gender marker as a prefix:
Faǂ'itot'a "water"

Wǎǂ'itot'asi wǎbit'u
"Wet rats"

Wǎbit'u wǎǂ'itot'asi
"The rats are wet"
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by eldin raigmore » Fri 11 May 2018, 03:03

Gerunds are almost always a kind of verbal noun. In fact most verbal nouns that aren’t called infinitives are usually called gerunds.

Verbal adjectives are always called participles. (Or almost always.)

In some languages, for instance In languages where adjectives can be used as nouns and/or vice-versa, there’s not much difference between a gerund and a participle. Or maybe no difference.
But I don’t recommend calling your verbal adjectives “gerunds” unless they’re used more as nouns than as adjectives.

Can your verbal adjectives inflect for tense or aspect or voice (diathesis)? Or can they take an object?
If so you should probably call them participles instead of gerunds.

What verb-like properties do they retain? If none, how are they verbal instead of deverbal?

——————

But once again, telling the reader what your language actually does is more important than using the “right” words to describe it.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by eldin raigmore » Fri 11 May 2018, 03:07

eldin raigmore wrote:
Fri 11 May 2018, 03:03
Gerunds are almost always a kind of verbal noun.
Rather than verbal adjective.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by Shemtov » Fri 11 May 2018, 07:12

Sorry, I forgot my terminology for a moment. Nothing to cry over spilled morphemes.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by Shemtov » Sat 12 May 2018, 00:34

Transitive verbs:
Transitive verbs come in three categories: Transitive Root, Transitivized Intransitives, and Causatives. Concord for 1 and 2P is for Agents, 1P sing. mi 1P plr. ke, 2p sing is tu, 2p plr is su, and for patients, 1P sing. mo 1P plr. ka, 2p sing te, 2p plr se.
The first type includes such roots as K'udaǃo "To strike; to hit"
Tubagǃamok'uda!o
"You hit me!"

The second type is ussually formed by the pre-verb Wige- if volitional, and Ngugi- if non-volitional.
Root:
Dowe "To be able to see"
Yumodowe
"I can see; I am not blind"

Yug!adowe g!abit'u
"The rat can see"

Ngugimibag!atedowe
"I saw you out of the corner of my eye"

Wigemibag!atedowe
"I watched you"

This can occur with other pre-verbs:
Wigeforamik'osoʘareku sok'a!'ukemoku
"I have thrown down my arrowhead"

The third type is for making the object do X intransitive action. It has the pre-verb gǃoǂ'u-. This can occur with other pre-verbs:

G!oǂ'uhat'amiyohaʘareku
"I am pushing him over"
Last edited by Shemtov on Sun 03 Jun 2018, 19:13, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by eldin raigmore » Sat 12 May 2018, 12:50

Shemtov wrote:
Sat 12 May 2018, 00:34
Transitive verbs come in three categories: Transitive Root, Transitivized Intransitives, and Causatives.
I like this.

(I like the whole language!)
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Re: Eroki Gǂama

Post by Shemtov » Thu 17 May 2018, 22:35

The Passive is contructed with the preverb Rigǎ if volitional (the person/animal let it happen) and K'oda if non-volitional. They can occur with other Pre-verbs.
Volitional Passives take the subject marker, with no object. If an object-agent needs to be specified, it follows the verb in the Genitive-Instrumental.
Non-Volitional Passives have only the object marker, and the noun is in the ACC. They are treated as intransitive, even if transitive. The Object-Agent is not marked.
Hitafi rigǎwigehiǂ'umagʘu satafisa
"Wolf whelps let themselves be suckled by [she-]wolves"

Bǎroki k'odagǃoǂ'uyubǎdowe
"The yellow poppy is being displayed"

(Thanks to Creyeditor for helping with passives with split-S)

Question: Is this a Polysynthetic Lang?
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