XKCD 2149:_Alternate_Histories is funny & especially for Conworlders!

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elemtilas
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Re: XKCD 2149:_Alternate_Histories is funny & especially for Conworlders!

Post by elemtilas » 14 May 2019 06:51

[xD]

So true.
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Re: XKCD 2149:_Alternate_Histories is funny & especially for Conworlders!

Post by eldin raigmore » 17 May 2019 21:05

elemtilas wrote:
14 May 2019 06:51
[xD]

So true.
You seem to have been the only one who laughed!
[:x] [:$] [:3]

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Re: XKCD 2149:_Alternate_Histories is funny & especially for Conworlders!

Post by WeepingElf » 17 May 2019 21:46

I lost interest in alternative histories when I realized that most of those only serve to make a right-wing political point by making a lost cause desired by the author (such as racial purity) triumphant or by excising a successful cause despised by the author (such as the welfare state) from history.
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Re: XKCD 2149:_Alternate_Histories is funny & especially for Conworlders!

Post by elemtilas » 18 May 2019 03:56

WeepingElf wrote:
17 May 2019 21:46
I lost interest in alternative histories when I realized that most of those only serve to make a right-wing political point by making a lost cause desired by the author (such as racial purity) triumphant or by excising a successful cause despised by the author (such as the welfare state) from history.
Perhaps not the majority, but let's face it, those turns of history tend to be quite popular. I've not read any alt-history, so can't say one way or the other if it's "right wing politics" per se or not at the core so much as a general fascination with history. At least in the US, it's "what if the CSA won or at least came to an armistice with the USA". There's really no right or left wing politics there. (Not as "right" and "left" are currently constituted in the US!) But the Civil War is one of those perennially interesting (as well as perilously hot button) historical eras. In the US, while we view The Holocaust with revulsion, we tend to view Hitler and (actual) Nazis and the whole political era in Germany with a kind of morbid fascination (I believe, much to the astonishment of Europeans in general!), so it should come as no surprise that "what if the Third Reich was victorious" is another popular motif. Again, no clear political direction (except perhaps for a few Neonazi numbskulls).

So many alt histories deal with ancient Rome, the Revolutionary War, China, the Ottoman Empire, etc., that I'm not convinced of any particular political aspect to the genre as a whole. Though you do note at least one political aspiration I'd concur with (racial purity).
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Re: XKCD 2149:_Alternate_Histories is funny & especially for Conworlders!

Post by sangi39 » 19 May 2019 21:08

I think that's an "unfortunate subset" of alternative history. The ones that seem to be most popular revolve around the points in history that most people are familiar with (WWII, the American Civil War for those in the US, the development, or lack thereof, of nuclear weapons, etc.), and those events will, of course, attract people who would prefer that things went differently. I'd posit that a fair few of them, though, tend to come simply from "what if things went differently" from a well-known point of divergence.

Harry Turtledove's Southern Victory series, IIRC, posits a victory for Southern secession from the USA, but ultimately sees the CSA fall to the USA, and its leaders tried for crimes against humanity (although it also sees slavery continue for longer in the south, followed by apartheid-like conditions, and eventual genocide). Sometimes in some places the "right" does well, other times in other places the "left" does well, but overall I think it's meant to have a hint of realism, with tensions rises, wars waging, and forces on either side winning.

Alternative History Hub over on YouTube attempts to do something similar, albeit in much shorter "stories" (I don't think many of his videos stretching for longer than around 20 minutes), and he's actually redone some of his older videos, taking into account more details.

I will say, though, it does suck when alternative history takes a political bent, but then I suppose that's one of the main impetuses behind working on them. "What if" is all well and good, and can get you so far, but eventually the author will take the world in a direction that's based more on gut-feeling and ideology then any data (either because they're ignoring it or because they don't have it).
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Re: XKCD 2149:_Alternate_Histories is funny & especially for Conworlders!

Post by Keenir » 20 May 2019 04:30

WeepingElf wrote:
17 May 2019 21:46
I lost interest in alternative histories when I realized that most of those only serve to make a right-wing political point by making a lost cause desired by the author (such as racial purity) triumphant or by excising a successful cause despised by the author (such as the welfare state) from history.
and yet you're a conlanger, when people like Bliss give conlanging a bad name.
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799

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Re: XKCD 2149:_Alternate_Histories is funny & especially for Conworlders!

Post by DesEsseintes » 20 May 2019 08:29

Keenir wrote:
20 May 2019 04:30
Bliss
Who’s Bliss?

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elemtilas
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Re: XKCD 2149:_Alternate_Histories is funny & especially for Conworlders!

Post by elemtilas » 20 May 2019 14:47

DesEsseintes wrote:
20 May 2019 08:29
Keenir wrote:
20 May 2019 04:30
Bliss
Who’s Bliss?
I suspect Charles Bliss.
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If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera

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Re: XKCD 2149:_Alternate_Histories is funny & especially for Conworlders!

Post by Keenir » 21 May 2019 00:28

elemtilas wrote:
20 May 2019 14:47
DesEsseintes wrote:
20 May 2019 08:29
Keenir wrote:
20 May 2019 04:30
Bliss
Who’s Bliss?
I suspect Charles Bliss.
*nods*
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799

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Re: XKCD 2149:_Alternate_Histories is funny & especially for Conworlders!

Post by eldin raigmore » 21 May 2019 02:18

elemtilas wrote:
20 May 2019 14:47
DesEsseintes wrote:
20 May 2019 08:29

Who’s Bliss?
I suspect Charles Bliss.
Thanks for that informative story! I didn’t know any of that!

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