Damta: A collaborative world

Discussions about constructed worlds, cultures and any topics related to constructed societies.
Nachtuil
greek
greek
Posts: 507
Joined: 21 Jul 2016 00:16

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil » 02 Oct 2019 03:56

Dormouse has kindly offered to update the thread name. If you guys prefer something else feel free to suggest something.

Khemehekis
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2386
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Any interest in starting a collaborative project?

Post by Khemehekis » 02 Oct 2019 04:57

Nachtuil wrote:
30 Sep 2019 16:34
Khemehekis wrote:
30 Sep 2019 05:28
As for Nachtuil, I believe you mean "elk", not "elf". We're not writing Tolkien, are we? [B)]
Yeah... hahah. We are not making ~that~ kind of conworld. :p
I am soooooo unable to get into elf-dwarf-and-orc conworlds that have magic. Worlds like Damta are a lot more fun.
I've taken a first attempt at deriving a phonology to get to Kojikeng but I'll likely change it.
Spoiler:
Stage 1:
Inventory:
/m n /
/p t ts tˤ tʃ ʔ/
/b d dz dˤ g/
/s sˤ ʃ x ħ/
/z zˤ/
/ɾ/

/i e a o u/
/ei̯ eu̯ o̯i ou̯ au̯ ai̯ ao̯ ae̯/

C(C)V(C)
/n/ becomes [ɴ] at before /ʔ/ or /ħ/, and [ŋ] before /k/, /g/, or /x/.
/b/, /d/ and /g/ become [β], [ð], and [ɣ] respectively intervocalically.
/dˤ/ becomes [ðˤ] intervocalically.
/ħ/ becomes [ç] before /i/.
/a/ becomes [ɐ] when unstressed.

Txabao has a stress accent system. The primary stress falls on the penult if the word ends in a single vowel, and on the final syllable if the word ends in a consonant or diphthong.

C(N)V(M)
C: any consonant
N: ɾ s ʃ
M: any consonant but emphatic or pharyngeal
Clusters:
/pɾ tɾ kɾ bɾ dɾ gɾ/
/sɾ xɾ ʃɾ zɾ/
/tsɾ tʃɾ dzɾ/
/ps ks/
/pʃ kʃ/
/psˤ ksˤ/
/xs xʃ xsˤ/
/sp st sk/
/sx/

Stage 2:

/b d g/ -> /β ð ɣ/ / V_V
/ps ks/ ->/s/
/pʃ kʃ/-> /ʃ/
/psˤ ksˤ/ -> /sˤ/
/xs xʃ xsˤ/ /s ʃ sˤ/
/sp st sk/-> /p t k/
/sx/ -> /x/
[β ð ɣ] -> /β ð ɣ/ ( ðˤ remains allophone of dˤ)
/x ħ/ -> /x/ (ç remains allophone)
voiced obstruent -> unvoiced obstruent / word finally
Voiceless obstruents -> voiced obstruent / _ [nasal stop]
Word stress travels to first long vowel in a word, otherwise stays the same.
/ʔ/ -> [∅] / _#

/ei̯ eu̯/ -> /e:/
/o̯i/ ->/i:/
/ou̯ ao̯ au̯/ ->/o:/
/ai̯ ae̯/ -> /a:/
/o a/ -> /a/

Inventory:
/m n /
/p t ts tˤ tʃ ʔ/
/b d dˤ g/
/s sˤ ʃ x ħ/
/z zˤ/
/ɾ/
/i u e a/
/i: e: a: o: u:/

C(C)V
Permissible clusters:
/pɾ tɾ tsɾ tʃɾ kɾ/
/bɾ dɾ dzɾ gɾ/

Stage 3:

/p t ts tʃ k/ -> [pʰ tʰ tsʰ tʃʰ kʰ] / _#
/pɾ tɾ tsɾ tʃɾ kɾ/ -> [pʰ tʰ tsʰ tʃʰ kʰ]
/sɾ xɾ ʃɾ zɾ/ -> /ʃ /
/bɾ dɾ dzɾ gɾ/ -> /r r r R/
/ð ðˤ/ -> /z zˤ/
/ɾ/ -> /l/
/β/ -> /w/
/ɣ/ -> [j] / _[i i: e e:]
/ɣ/ -> [w] / [a a: o o:]
[ç] -> /ʃ/
/x/ -> /h/

Fricatives in clusters where they precede stops become [h]
Word final oral stops and affricates become fricatives of the same place of articulation.
Fricatives become [h] when word finally.
Oral stops in clusters with nasal stops are deleted.

/u/ -> /i/
/i/ -> /e/
/e/ -> /a/
/a/ -> /o/

Inventory:
/m n ŋ/
/pʰ tʰ tsʰ tʃʰ kʰ/
/p t ts tʃ k ʔ/
/b d dz g/
/ɸ s ʃ x h/
/ð z/
/r R/
/w l j/

/i e a o/
/i: e: a: o:/

(C)V(N)

Stage 4:

/ts tʃ/ -> /ts/
/tsʰ tʃʰ/ -> /tsʰ/
/s ʃ/ -> /s/
/ð z/ -> /z/
V -> V̰ / _ Cˤ (vowels before or after pharyngealized vowels become creaky)
V -> V̰ / Cˤ_
/tˤ dˤ sˤ zˤ ðˤ/ -> /t d s z ð/
V -> V̰ / _[ʔ]
/h/ word initially deleted.
V -> V̤ / _h (vowels become breathy before h)
/h ʔ/ word finally deleted.
All vowels are allophonically nasalised when preceding or following a glottal stop or h.
/p t ts k/ -> /pʰ tʰ tsʰ kʰ/ / _#
Plain voiced and voiceless stops merge into plain stops in all other circumstances.
/ʔ h/ -> [ʔ]

Inventory:
/m n ŋ/
/pʰ tʰ tsʰ tʃʰ kʰ/
/p t ts tʃ k ʔ/
/b d dz g/
/ɸ s ʃ x h/
/ð z/
/r R/
/w l j/

/i e a o /
/i̤ e̤ a̤ o̤ /
/ḭ ḛ a̰ o̰ /
/i: e: a: o: /
/i̤: e̤: a̤: o̤: /
/ḭ: ḛ: a̰: o̰: /

Stage 5:

Length distinction on vowels lost.
Stressed syllables remain allophonically long.
/ʔ h/ -> /ʔ/
/ɸ s x/ -> /h/
/w j/ deleted word initially
/l/ -> /j/ in all circumstances
/r/ -> /l/
/R/ -> /w/ in all circumstances
V -> Ṽ / _ final nasal
Final nasals lost.
Final /e e̤ ḛ ẽ/ lost.

/m n ŋ/
/pʰ tʰ tsʰ tʃʰ kʰ/
/p t ts tʃ k ʔ/
/s h/
/r/
/w l j/

i e a o
i̤ e̤ a̤ o̤
ḭ ḛ a̰ o̰
ĩ ẽ ã õ
/h/ -> [ɸ] / _ /o o̤ o̰ õ/

That's where I got to. haha. With one more step I could bring it to Kojikeng as I initially presented I think but this direction has been interesting.
That's a lot of awesome work! You think we could retroengineer Txabao numbers from Kojikeng now? Janko has already asked me for my Txabao numbers, and I've explained to him that I'm waiting until you've worked out to Txabao-Kojikeng diachronics, since you've already created the Kojikeng numbers one to ten.

I can certainly say you've managed to get it to a Kojikengy phonology without anything contrived. These steps also offer many chances for branching and subbranching.
I'm pleased I figured out a way to get to a 4 vowel system from what you had.
It worked well. Vlürch has also suggested some more allophony involving vowel-shortening in Txabao, which I may go with.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 60,137 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Nachtuil
greek
greek
Posts: 507
Joined: 21 Jul 2016 00:16

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil » 02 Oct 2019 08:09

I can tolerate elves and such but I'm really not keen on high magic at all. haha I agree that low magic or no magic worlds are way more fun. Maybe because it is easier to conceptualise the behaviour and don't need to suspend disbelief all the time that major factors of the world would be identical to our historical one despite the existence of powerful magic that would supersede a great deal of historical technology etc.

I'm so glad you like it :) I've actually just gone through the trouble of reorganizing it. It's funny, I didn't plan for Kojikeng to have this particular resulting phonology but here we are. I plan to advance it in future periods and am setting this as the "modern" phonology. I can't really say if it is objectively better but this second attempt I feel is easier to follow for me as I bring words back and forth through the transitions. I imagine with it we can send words back and forth through time :)

Initially I wanted to have voicing contrast on stops but aspiration is fine for now. Also it seems unnecessary to go from voiced to aspirated and back to voiced if that's really where I wanted to end up anyway haha. Also 8 stages is more than enough. The idea of being able to break off new languages from certain stages is appealing. I invite you to grab a stage to work from should you find one appealing.
Spoiler:
Stage 0:
/m n /
/p t ts tˤ tʃ ʔ/
/b d dz dˤ g/
/s sˤ ʃ x ħ/
/z zˤ/
/ɾ/
/i e a o u/
/ei̯ eu̯ o̯i ou̯ au̯ ai̯ ao̯ ae̯/

C(C)V(C)
/n/ becomes [ɴ] at before /ʔ/ or /ħ/, and [ŋ] before /k/, /g/, or /x/.
/b/, /d/ and /g/ become [β], [ð], and [ɣ] respectively intervocalically.
/dˤ/ becomes [ðˤ] intervocalically.
/ħ/ becomes [ç] before /i/.
/a/ becomes [ɐ] when unstressed.

Stage1:
/sp st sk sx -> insert duplicate of syllable vowel between consonants. Ex: /spo/ -> /sopo/
Oral stop + Fricative -> [∅] +Fricative
/psˤ ksˤ/ -> /sˤ/
/xs xʃ xsˤ/ /s ʃ sˤ/
/ei̯ eu̯/-> /e:/
/o̯i/ ->/i:/
/ou̯ ao̯ au̯/ ->/o:/
/ai̯ ae̯/ -> /a:/

Inventory:
/m n /
/p t ts tˤ tʃ ʔ/
/b d dz dˤ g/
/s sˤ ʃ x ħ/
/z zˤ/
/ɾ/
/i e a o u/
/i: e: a: o:/

Stage 2:
[β ð ɣ] -> /β ð ɣ/ ( ðˤ still allophone of dˤ)
Nasal + voiced stop -> nasal + [∅]
Nasal + voiceless stop -> nasal + voiced
Loss of unstressed word initial onsetless vowels before clusters
Loss of vowels after lone nasals word finally.
Inventory:
/m n ŋ/
/p t ts tˤ tʃ ʔ/
/b d dz dˤ g/
/s sˤ ʃ x ħ/
/β ð z zˤ ɣ/
/ɾ/
/i e a o u/
/i: e: a: o:/

Stage 3:
/sɾ xɾ ʃɾ zɾ/ -> /ʃ ʃ ʃ ʒ/
/pɾ tɾ tsɾ tʃɾ kɾ/ -> /pʰ tʰ tsʰ tʃʰ kʰ/
/bɾ dɾ dzɾ gɾ/ -> /r r r R/
Devoicing of final obstruents
/o a/ -> /a/
V-> V: / # _ voiced consonant
Inventory:
/m n ŋ/
/pʰ tʰ tsʰ tʃʰ kʰ/
/p t ts tˤ tʃ ʔ/
/b d dz dˤ g/
/s sˤ ʃ x ħ/
/β ð z zˤ ʒ ɣ/
/ɾ r R/
/i u e a/
/i: e: a: o:/

Stage 4:
Final fricatives to /h/
Final stop stops to fricatives in same place of articulation
Nasal + voiced stop -> nasal + [∅]
/ʒ/ -> /j/
/β/ -> /w/
/ɾ/ -> /l/
/R ɣ/ -> /ɣ/
/ð ðˤ/ -> /z zˤ/
/u/ -> /i/
/i/ -> /e/
/e/ -> /a/
/a/ -> /o/
Inventory:
/m n ŋ/
/pʰ tʰ tsʰ tʃʰ kʰ/
/p t ts tˤ tʃ ʔ/
/b d dz dˤ g/
/s sˤ ʃ x ħ h/
/z zˤ ɣ/
/l r/
/w j/
/i e a o/
/i: e: a: o:/

Stage 5:
Final fricatives to /h/
Loss of final nasal consonants.
Loss of final unstressed vowels following a nasal.
/j w/ -> [∅] / _# (only if onset of unstressed syllable)
/ɣ/ -> /j/ / _[i i: e e:]
/ɣ/ -> /w/ / [a a: o o:]
/tˤ dˤ sˤ zˤ/ -> /t d s z/
/x ħ/ -> /x/
[ç] -> [ʃ] / _/i/
/ʔ/ -> [∅] / #_
/z dz/ -> /z/

Unstressed vowels between a velar oral stop and a glide onset of another syllable are deleted.
V -> Ṽ / _ Nasal #
V -> V̰ / _ Cˤ, _ħ, _ʔ
Inventory:
/m n ŋ/
/pʰ tʰ tsʰ tʃʰ kʰ/
/p t ts tʃ ʔ/
/b d g/
/s ʃ x h/
/z/
/l r/
/w j/
/i e a o/
/i: e: a: o:/
/ĩ ẽ ã õ/
/ĩ: ẽ: ã: õ:/
/ḭ ḛ a̰ o̰/
/ḭ: ḛ: a̰: o̰:/

Stage 6:
/ʔ/ -> [∅] / _#
/r/ -> /ɾ/
/x/ -> /h/ / _#
/z/ -> /r/
/b d dz g/ -> /p t ts k/
/p t ts tʃ k/ -> /pʰ tʰ tsʰ tʃʰ kʰ/ /_#
/s z/ -> /s/
V -> Ṽ / ʔ_ (nasalised)
V -> V: / _voiced consonant
Stress moves to first long vowel in each word
/ĩ ẽ/ -> /ẽ/
/ĩ: ẽ:/ -> /ẽ:/
Inventory:
/m n ŋ/
/pʰ tʰ tsʰ tʃʰ kʰ/
/p t ts tʃ k ʔ/
/s ʃ x h/
/l ɾ r/
/w j/
/i e a o/
/i: e: a: o:/
/ẽ ã õ/
/ẽ: ã: õ:/
/ḭ ḛ a̰ o̰/
/ḭ: ḛ: a̰: o̰:/

Stage 7:

/h/ -> [∅] / _#, #_
/h/ -> [ʔ] / V_V
/x/ -> /h/
/l/ -> /j/
/ɾ/ -> /l/
V -> V̤ / #_h (to breathy voicing)
Vowel length ceases to be phonemic. Stressed syllables are lengthened allophonically
Inventory:
/m n ŋ/
/pʰ tʰ tsʰ tʃʰ kʰ/
/p t ts tʃ k ʔ/
/s ʃ h/
/l r/
/w j/
/i e a o/
/ẽ ã õ/
/ḭ ḛ a̰ o̰/
/i̤ e̤ a̤ o̤/

Stage 8:
/ j l/ -> /j/
/ts tʃ/ -> /ts/
/tsʰ tʃʰ/ -> /tsʰ/
/s ʃ/ -> /s/
Ṽ -> V (nasalisation on vowels ceases to be phonemic)
Inventory:
/m n ŋ/
/pʰ tʰ tsʰ kʰ/
/p t ts k ʔ/
/s h/
/r/
/w j/
/i e a o/
/ḭ ḛ a̰ o̰/
/i̤ e̤ a̤ o̤/

Allophony:
/V/ -> [Ṽ ] / ʔ_
/C/ -> [Cʷ] / _ /o o̰ o̤/
/h/ -> [ɸ] / _ /o o̰ o̤/
/p t ts k s/ -> [ b d dz g z] / V_V
/n tʰ t s l/ -> [ɲ tʃʰ tʃ ʃ ʎ] / _
/s/ + voice / V_V
/w j/ -> [j̥ w̥] -> / [k g]_V



Ok lets try those numbers and see how it goes. I'll have to make choices of course as there was loss of information over time. I hadn't intended for the phonation distinctions so I'm going to throw a few in to see how it goes.

I'll have to finish this later but the first two are... interesting.
One: zip -> zeɸ -> zeh -> reh -> rḛ
Two: mentu -> me:ndu -> me:ndi -> me:n -> men
Three: tɾai̯ŋke -> tɾa:ŋke-> tɾa:ŋge -> tʰa:ŋe -> tʰa:ŋ-> tʰaŋ (an unfortunate resemblance to "three" but what can you do.)


To be continued.

Nachtuil
greek
greek
Posts: 507
Joined: 21 Jul 2016 00:16

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil » 02 Oct 2019 19:28

Yeah so, it turns out some of my previous word forms are not possible with the phonological pathway I've chosen so I've been trying to approximate them the best I can. It's been a good process though as some of the phonological changes in the second version don't make sense or won't ever occur due to previous processes so this has been a good process for that. It is 10x easier to move forward through time than backwards. haha.
I'll have to just revamp a lot of the previous work on Kojikeng but that's ok. I'll also have to message Janko to update the numbers.

Nachtuil
greek
greek
Posts: 507
Joined: 21 Jul 2016 00:16

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil » 03 Oct 2019 15:23

Alright, these are the numbers I came up with.
On the left is the original form and on the right is "modern" Kojikeng. Are these workable?

1. zip -> zeɸ -> zeh -> reh -> rḛ
2. mentu -> me:ndu -> me:ndi -> me:n -> men
3. ksˤao̯ʔi -> sˤo:ʔi -> sˤo:ʔe -> sõ:ʔe
4. tɾai̯ŋke -> tɾa:ŋke-> tɾa:ŋge -> tʰa:ŋe -> tʰa:ŋ-> tʰaŋ
5. dɾa ->ra-> ro-> lo -> jo
6. tʃeu̯m -> tʃe:m -> tʃe:m -> tʃẽ: -> tʃʰẽ: -> tsʰẽ:-> tsʰḛ
7. iɾaku -> eloki -> ijoki -> joki
8. sxaŋke -> saxaŋge-> soxoŋga-> soxo:ŋa-> soxo:ŋ -> soxo:ŋ -> sohoŋ
9. aben -> aβen -> owan -> wã -> wa̰
10. kozɾat -> kaʒat -> kojos ->kjoh -> kjo̤
100. ksˤitˤom -> sˤitˤam -> sˤetˤõ -> sḛtõ̰ -> sḛto̰

I'm just .... reworking.... my phonological processes just for my own sanity so I may actually re-derive them. If you don't care for any feel free to just make up your own and I'll work from what you pick. Some of them are kind of heavy as far as numbers go. I just don't want to feel like I am holding up progress :P

brblues
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 109
Joined: 03 Aug 2018 15:34

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by brblues » 03 Oct 2019 21:32

Okay, so finally a conworldy post by me! The words in IPA are Proto-Bokisig (which is what I will call Proto-BLSL from now on), but will still undergo quite a bit of sound change chaos before the classical stage.


The /bo’kisig/ empire descended from hunter-gatherer tribes that had been populating the savannah in E4 since at least approximately PS7,000. The survival of the tribes, who at that time were speaking a precursor of Proto-Bokisig, was under constant threat not only by nature and foreign foes, but also internal fighting between tribes and clans. The common language provided a bond, and a common enemy provided urgent impetus for some sort of unification: Around PS8,000, an offshoot of the Txabao people from the desert to the west of the highlands and mountain range ventured onto the territory peopled by the Bokisig.

In these wars, referred to as /mɛ.'ʔu.at/ (struggle away [from the established order]”) in Proto-Bokisig, the hunter-gatherers were no match for the camel cavalries of the Txabao , and the latter managed a series of quick conquests. The camel – or rather the name of the Txabao camel-deity “Neidu” – also was the source for the exonym in Proto-Bokisig for this invading people: /nedu-ki/, “camel-people”.
By around PS8200 the tribes had been fully pushed into the Southeastern half of the savannah, and a kingdom called /ne’dusu/ was formed in the western and northern part. However, the success of that kingdom was short-lived; while the savannah provided richer game, namely the hadrosaurids called /a’bomhiz/ (“ground-shaker”) in Proto-Bokisig, they lacked the experience and skill set necessary to successfully live off the lands of that savannah. The kingdom had overstretched itself and had to rely on plundering and even keeping camels for food.
Meanwhile, by around 8,300, the Bokisig people lands had regrouped in the southeast and established fortified settlements in this land as a confederation of tribes named /bokisig/ (“gathering of nomads/hunters/gatherers”; this confederation gave its name to the later empire and its people). Furthermore, they combined their invention of the wheel with domesticated camels – either caught in the wild, after they had escaped the /neduki/, or captured directly from the latter – to construct and field camel-drawn war chariots, which finally gave them an edge over the /neduki/ forces.

Thus ensued the successful yet bloody wars of reconquest called /'bo.ʔat/ (“struggle to get back towards [the established order]”, during which a large swathe of land up to the highlands in the west was won back, and most of the remaining /neduki/ fell back to a small kingdom in the north of the savannah and south of the desert to the north of it. Those /neduki/ who fled back to their ancestral homeland, the desert to the west of the highlands and mountain range bisecting the continent, brought with them the BLSL invention of the wheel, spurring huge growth of the Txabao civilization in the Western deserts of the continent.

With the external threat of the /neduki/ all but disappeared, the confederation now covering almost the whole savannah was more susceptible to in-fighting between tribes and clans, as evidenced by the uprisings of the clans /sehinsig/ (around 8325) and /keohu/ (around 8350). Such full-blown civil war, however, did not recur after the successful suppression of these revolts – this may be at least partly due to the introduction of large-scale exogamous marriage between clans, based upon a development that had already taken place on a smaller scale in the southeast as a means of strengthening bonds between tribes, as stable relationships had been a prerequisite for being able to muster up the resources to successfully defend the land and make use of new technologies to then lead the reconquest. In addition, the loose-federation system then put in place for peace time respected the fierce independence of the individual tribes and clans.

TBC ;)
Last edited by brblues on 09 Oct 2019 11:07, edited 1 time in total.

Khemehekis
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2386
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Khemehekis » 04 Oct 2019 04:31

Nachtuil wrote:
02 Oct 2019 08:09
I can tolerate elves and such but I'm really not keen on high magic at all. haha I agree that low magic or no magic worlds are way more fun. Maybe because it is easier to conceptualise the behaviour and don't need to suspend disbelief all the time that major factors of the world would be identical to our historical one despite the existence of powerful magic that would supersede a great deal of historical technology etc.
Yeah, that reminds me of one of the Seven Deadly Sins of Worldbuilding -- not thinking through how a form of technology or magic would change your world.

The numbers are awesome!

1. zip
2. mentu
3. kshao'i
4. trainke
5. dra
6. txeum
7. 'iraku
8. sqanke
9. 'aben
10. kozrat

And also . . .

100. kshithom

I'm sending 1-10 to Janko. Thank you so much for aligning our conlangs like this! [<3]
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 60,137 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Khemehekis
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2386
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Khemehekis » 04 Oct 2019 04:44

brblues wrote:
03 Oct 2019 21:32
Okay, so finally a conworldy post by me! The words in IPA are Proto-Bokisig (which is what I will call Proto-BLSL from now on), but will still undergo quite a bit of sound change chaos before the classical stage.
Awwwll right!
In these wars, referred to as /mɛ.ʔu.at/ (struggle away [from the established order]”) in Proto-Bokisig, the camel cavalries of the Txabao were no match for the hunter-gatherers, and the Txabao managed a series of quick conquests.
Do you mean "The hunter-gatherers were no match for the camel cavalries of the Txabao"?
The camel – or rather the name of the Txabao camel-deity “Neidu” – also was the source for the exonym in Proto-Bokisig for this invading people: /nedu-ki/, “camel-people”.
[<3]
By around PS8200 the tribes had been fully pushed into the Southeastern half of the savannah, and a kingdom called /ne’dusu/ was formed in the western and northern part. However, the success of that kingdom was short-lived; while the savannah provided richer game, namely the hadrosaurids called /a’bomhiz/ (“ground-shaker”) in Proto-Bokisig, they lacked the experience and skill set necessary to successfully live off the lands of that savannah. The kingdom had overstretched itself and had to rely on plundering and even keeping camels for food.
Serves the "Neduki" right! [>:D] I think I'll borrow 'abomhhiz into Txabao as the people learn of these hadrosaurids for the first time.
Meanwhile, by around 8,300, the Bokisig people lands had regrouped in the southeast and established fortified settlements in this land as a confederation of tribes named /bokisig/ (“gathering of nomads/hunters/gatherers”; this confederation gave its name to the later empire and its people). Furthermore, they combined their invention of the wheel with domesticated camels – either caught in the wild, after they had escaped the /neduki/, or captured directly from the latter – to construct and field camel-drawn war chariots, which finally gave them an edge over the /neduki/ forces.

Thus ensued the successful yet bloody wars of reconquest called /bo.ʔ’at/ (“struggle to get back towards [the established order]”, during which a large swathe of land up to the highlands in the west was won back, and most of the remaining /neduki/ fell back to a small kingdom in the north of the savannah and south of the desert to the north of it. Those /neduki/ who fled back to their ancestral homeland, the desert to the west of the highlands and mountain range bisecting the continent, brought with them the BLSL invention of the wheel, spurring huge growth of the Txabao civilization in the Western deserts of the continent.
Brilliant worldbuilding! And I see the Bokisig get their land back!
TBC
I look forward to it.





I'm thinking of creating a tribe of zebu pastoralists in the desert called the Prömkhongkhong (sing. Prömkhong), meaning "zebu people". The Txabao will occasionally run into them in the centuries around PS8000. They will give the Txabao a word for zebu (prum), and will also serve as a substrate language for one of the descendants of the Txabao tongue that ultimately replaces the Prömkhongvrîp language. Prömkhongvrîp probably won't leave any present-day direct descendants.



Also: are the elk that some of the peoples ride going to be elk in the British sense of the word (moose), or elk in the American sense of the word (wapiti), or something like the Great Irish elk (except without the horns so big they will lead to extinction)?
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 60,137 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

User avatar
k1234567890y
runic
runic
Posts: 3077
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
Contact:

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by k1234567890y » 04 Oct 2019 17:18

for the elks, maybe let's do European elks first.
...

Khemehekis
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2386
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Khemehekis » 05 Oct 2019 00:57

k1234567890y wrote:
04 Oct 2019 17:18
for the elks, maybe let's do European elks first.
So . . . this creature?
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 60,137 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

User avatar
k1234567890y
runic
runic
Posts: 3077
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
Contact:

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by k1234567890y » 05 Oct 2019 10:25

I have created the numeral system for Classical Sitr, it is based on Lakh and Crore
Khemehekis wrote:
05 Oct 2019 00:57
k1234567890y wrote:
04 Oct 2019 17:18
for the elks, maybe let's do European elks first.
So . . . this creature?
yes (:
...

User avatar
k1234567890y
runic
runic
Posts: 3077
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
Contact:

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by k1234567890y » 05 Oct 2019 10:30

Sorry for double posting

Numerals in Classical Sitr

The numeral system in Classical Sitr was decimal, with 20 and 30 being irregular, and there's an archaic irregular form for 50 alongside with the regular form, with tens formed suffix -dal; also, Classical Sitr uses a system based on 100,000 and 10,000,000 when it comes to larger numbers, which is similar to Indian languages.

Cardinal Numbers

Below are the cardinal numerals in Classical Sitr:

-1: as
-2: daa
-3: das
-4: athal
-5: kal
-6: chas
-7: chad
-8: dagar
-9: asgad
-10: daal
-11: daal as
-12: daal daa
-13: daal das
-14: daal athal
-15: daal kal
-16: daal chas
-17: daal chad
-18: daal dagar
-19: daal asgad
-20: nvsaam
-30: dansa
-40: athaldal
-50: kaldal / kardaalna(archaic)
-60: chasdal
-70: chaddal
-80: dagardal
-90: asgaddal
-100: (as) daalna
-1,000: (as) mvnaat
-10,000: daal mvnaat / (as) paltvr(rare)
-100,000: (as) bektvr
-10,000,000: (as) maatvr

daalna, mvnaat, paltvr, bektvr and maatvr act like nouns, and are always preceded by smaller numerals when they are used as numerals.

paltvr is rarely used, one usually uses tens of mvnaat instead.

The way to form numerals are straightforward, larger numerals always come before smaller ones:

- 29 - nvsaam asgad(20+9)
- 36 - dansa chas(30+6)
- 188 - as daalna dagar daal dagar(1x100+8x10+8)
- 2,341 - daa mvnaat das daalna athaldal as(2x1,000+3x100+40+1)
- 38,835 - das daal dagar mvnaat dagar daalna dansa kal((3x10+8)x1,000+8x100+30+5) / das paltvr dagar mvnaat dagar daalna dansa kal(3x10,000+8x1,000+8x100+30+5)(rare)
- 131,072 - as bektvr das daal as mvnaat chaddal daa(1x100,000+(3x10+1)x1,000+70+2) / as bektvr das paltvr as mvnaat chaddal daa(1x100,000+3x10,000+1x1,000+70+2)(rare)

Larger numerals are listed below, they are basically formed by the repetitive use of daal, daalna, mvnaat, bektvr and maatvr:
- 10^8: (as) daal maatvr(10x10,000,000)
- 10^9: (as) daalna maatvr(100x10,000,000)
- 10^10: (as) mvnaat maatvr(1000x10,000,000)
- 10^11: (as) daal mvnaat maatvr(10x1000x10,000,000)
- 10^12: (as) bektvr maatvr(100,000x10,000,000)
- 10^14: (as) maatvr maatvr(10,000,000x10,000,000)
and so on.

Ordinal Numbers

Ordinal numbers are formed with the suffix -ni on the basis of the cardinal numbers; however, the word for "first" is irregular, and there's an archaic irregular form for "second" alongside with the regular form, and for ordinal numbers for numerals ending in "one", the ending is replaced with the corresponding word for "first" accordingly.

Below are the ordinal in Classical Sitr:

-1st: gaani
-2nd: daani / naagni(rare)
-3rd: dasni
-4th: athalni
-5th: kalni
-6th: chasni
-7th: chadni
-8th: dagarni
-9th: asgadni
-10th: daalni
-11th: daal gaani
-12th: daal daani
-13th: daal dasni
-14th: daal athalni
-15th: daal kalni
-16th: daal chasni
-17th: daal chadni
-18th: daal dagarni
-19th: daal asgadni
-20th: nvsaamni
-30th: dansani
-40th: athaldalni
-50th: kaldalni / kardaalnani(archaic)
-60th: chasdalni
-70th: chaddalni
-80th: dagardalni
-90th: asgaddalni
-100th: (as) daalnani
-1,000th: (as) mvnaatni
-10,000th: daal mvnaatni / (as) paltvrni(rare)
-100,000th: (as) bektvrni
-10,000,000th: (as) maatvrni

Some more examples:

- 29th - nvsaam asgadni
- 36th - dansa chasni
- 188th - as daalna dagardal dagarni
- 2,341st - daa mvnaat das daalna athaldal gaani
- 38,835th - das daal dagar mvnaat dagar daalna dansa kalni / das paltvr dagar mvnaat dagar daalna dansa kalni(rare)
- 131,072nd - as bektvr das daal as mvnaat chaddal daani / as bektvr das paltvr as mvnaat chaddal daani(rare)
...

Nachtuil
greek
greek
Posts: 507
Joined: 21 Jul 2016 00:16

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil » 08 Oct 2019 19:57

Nice work on that history brblue!

I'm really glad you like the numbers Khemehekis! I'm going to rederive them forward again haha seeing that the glottal stop would be required in onset. I'm going to "send backwards" a few lexical items with possible root forms to you at some point and their current Kojikeng semantic scope and use so that you can choose to adopt them or not. I'd do it in the most general way though. Like if I have a modern word ending with a breathy vowel, it is likely it originally had any stop so I won't specify the exact stop.

Ky, I like the sound of your numbers (well judging from my interpretation of the romanization anyway). Just to make sure I understand it right, would 21 be "nvsaam as" and 54 be "kaldal kal" ?

User avatar
k1234567890y
runic
runic
Posts: 3077
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
Contact:

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by k1234567890y » 08 Oct 2019 21:32

Nachtuil wrote:
08 Oct 2019 19:57
Ky, I like the sound of your numbers (well judging from my interpretation of the romanization anyway). Just to make sure I understand it right, would 21 be "nvsaam as" and 54 be "kaldal kal" ?
you are correct about 21, but for 54 you did it wrong, 54 would be kaldal athal, as 4 is athal
...

Nachtuil
greek
greek
Posts: 507
Joined: 21 Jul 2016 00:16

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil » 09 Oct 2019 01:12

k1234567890y wrote:
08 Oct 2019 21:32
Nachtuil wrote:
08 Oct 2019 19:57
Ky, I like the sound of your numbers (well judging from my interpretation of the romanization anyway). Just to make sure I understand it right, would 21 be "nvsaam as" and 54 be "kaldal kal" ?
you are correct about 21, but for 54 you did it wrong, 54 would be kaldal athal, as 4 is athal
Ah yes. My bad!

brblues
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 109
Joined: 03 Aug 2018 15:34

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by brblues » 09 Oct 2019 11:05

Khemehekis wrote:
04 Oct 2019 04:44
In these wars, referred to as /mɛ.ʔu.at/ (struggle away [from the established order]”) in Proto-Bokisig, the camel cavalries of the Txabao were no match for the hunter-gatherers, and the Txabao managed a series of quick conquests.
Do you mean "The hunter-gatherers were no match for the camel cavalries of the Txabao"?
Yes of course, thanks for noticing!

I think I'll borrow 'abomhhiz into Txabao as the people learn of these hadrosaurids for the first time.
Cool, since I won't have my Classical lang until the first big empire forms, it would indeed be the proto-lang form here that would form the basis for your loanwords, so go ahead!

As an aside, I am not 100% yet about all the sound changes and when they will take place, but by around 9,000 the word will likely have changed to /a'bu:z/, provided I've done the tentative sound changes correctly in my head.

Khemehekis
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2386
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Khemehekis » 11 Oct 2019 05:39

Nachtuil wrote:
08 Oct 2019 19:57
I'm really glad you like the numbers Khemehekis! I'm going to rederive them forward again haha seeing that the glottal stop would be required in onset.
[+1]

Ah yes, Txabao is one of those languages in which every word must begin with a consonant phoneme, even if it is only a glottal stop.
I'm going to "send backwards" a few lexical items with possible root forms to you at some point and their current Kojikeng semantic scope and use so that you can choose to adopt them or not. I'd do it in the most general way though. Like if I have a modern word ending with a breathy vowel, it is likely it originally had any stop so I won't specify the exact stop.
Thanks! This sounds like a lot of fun!
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 60,137 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Khemehekis
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2386
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Khemehekis » 11 Oct 2019 05:47

brblues wrote:
09 Oct 2019 11:05
Khemehekis wrote:
04 Oct 2019 04:44
Do you mean "The hunter-gatherers were no match for the camel cavalries of the Txabao"?
Yes of course, thanks for noticing!
You're welcome!
brblues wrote:
I think I'll borrow 'abomhhiz into Txabao as the people learn of these hadrosaurids for the first time.
Cool, since I won't have my Classical lang until the first big empire forms, it would indeed be the proto-lang form here that would form the basis for your loanwords, so go ahead!

As an aside, I am not 100% yet about all the sound changes and when they will take place, but by around 9,000 the word will likely have changed to /a'bu:z/, provided I've done the tentative sound changes correctly in my head.
That's quite a change, but definitely not too big a change for a thousand-year timespan. We can share a Wanderwort here and there with each other as we place animals, plants, and foodstuffs into our regions of Damta.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 60,137 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Nachtuil
greek
greek
Posts: 507
Joined: 21 Jul 2016 00:16

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil » 12 Oct 2019 17:26

I finally got photoshop running again. Is this what was desired with the biomes?

https://flic.kr/p/2htP5Ro

Khemehekis, I'm so glad you like the idea!

User avatar
k1234567890y
runic
runic
Posts: 3077
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
Contact:

Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by k1234567890y » 12 Oct 2019 17:41

btw, below is a list of the current lexicon of Classical Sitr:

https://conworkshop.com/dictionary.php?L=XSO

it is still far from complete yet though.
Nachtuil wrote:
12 Oct 2019 17:26
I finally got photoshop running again. Is this what was desired with the biomes?

https://flic.kr/p/2htP5Ro

Khemehekis, I'm so glad you like the idea!
looks nice (:
...

Post Reply