Damta: A collaborative world

Discussions about constructed worlds, cultures and any topics related to constructed societies.
Nachtuil
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil » 21 Oct 2019 15:53

k1234567890y wrote:
19 Oct 2019 21:40
a proposal:

Damta did not have positional notation for numbers at all before the time equivalent to around 500 CE or something.
I'm not familiar with the concept. Does this means that in the writing systems numbers just use different symbols for larger units and place them in a group without concern to order? If I = 1, V = 5, x=10, U = 100, then 27 could be XXVII OR IXXIV and 253 could be UUXXXXXIII OR XXIUUIIXXX? I'm just a bit fuzzy on what the implications are.
Khemehekis wrote:
20 Oct 2019 02:44
I know, right? It's so much fun to see where conlangers are taking other conlangers' words -- a two-heads-are-better-than-one phenomenon. Once head teachers come about on Damta, that could well be the word. The Txabao won't have schools, though.
I'm glad it's good for you. No maybe not formally at that early period :)
Khemehekis wrote:
16 Oct 2019 05:42
Glad you think it's not bad. We could go with a meaning like "hammer", "saw", or "to bind", but I like the chain I marked in red better.
I'm extremely comfortable with that semantic pathway :) (The one in red)

brblues:
I think what you're doing with your number system is really cool. I am curious what your sound change engine does look like. I have a set of sound change rules but have not posted them in a while. You're using the apostrophe to show which syllable is stressed right?
Last edited by Nachtuil on 22 Oct 2019 01:23, edited 1 time in total.

brblues
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by brblues » 21 Oct 2019 20:06

Nachtuil wrote:
21 Oct 2019 15:53

brblues:
I think what you're doing with your number system is really cool. I am curious what your sound change engine does look like. I have a set of sound change rules but have not posted them in a while. You're using the apostrophe to show which syllable is stressed right?
Yeah, stress is marked by an apostrophe before the vowel of the syllable, not the whole syllable (as common in IPA), as I wanted to make it easier to refer to stressed vowels in the Sound Change Engine. The SCE I'm referring to is this nifty little tool: https://conworkshop.com/leashy/sce/

In the documentation you will find some info on how to use it, but best is usually to attempt to implement a rule and look up how to do things when you're stuck. For my rules I have used a somewhat weird notation and a lot of workarounds, as I often did not know how to exactly do something or a rule was not working, and sometimes I just played around till finding the mistake (one time I changed most of the rule notation up, only to in the end notice that the problem was that the "g" copied in from my list of changes into the editor window was different from the one it put when I typed into that window [:D] ).

All that being said, here are the changes from the proto-lang to the Early Classical stage:
Spoiler:
V = a,e,i,ɪ,o,u,ə,ɯ,ɛ
longV = a:,e:,i:,ɪ:,o:,u:,ə:,ɯ:,ɛ:,ɑ:

F = e,i,ɛ,ɪ
longF = e:,i:,ɛ:,ɪ:
B = o,u,ɯ
longB = o:,u:,ɯ:


C = p,t,k,ʔ,m,n,b,g,d,s,z,ʃ,ʒ,x,ɣ,h,l,j,w

vc = b,d,g,z,ʒ,ɣ
vlc = p,t,k,s,ʃ,x

labial = m,p,b

N = m,n

fric = s,z,x,ɣ,h
stop = t,d,k,g,ʔ

s > ʃ / _(')[F]
z > ʒ / _(')[F]

[vc] > [vlc] / _(.)[vlc]
[vlc] > [vc] / _(.)[vc]


u > ɯ ! [labial](')_

ɯ > ə ! '_
ɛ > ə ! '_

-ə / _#

i > ɪ / _[C]. | _(.)[C]#

u > y / '[F](.)([C])(.)([C])([C])_

o > ø / '[F](.)([C])(.)([C])([C])_

ɯ > i / '[F](.)([C])(.)([C])([C])_

i,ɪ > ɯ / '(.)([C])(.)([C])([C])_

e > o / '(.)([C])(.)([C])([C])_

fric += v,f
stop += b,p


[stop](.)h(.) > [fric]

[C](.)h > [C]"


m(.)m > mw
s(.)s > st
z(.)z > zd
n(.)n > nj

[C]w > [C]u / _#
[C]j > [C]i / _#


-ʔ / (')[V](.)_(.)(')[V]


[V](.)ə > [longV]

[V](.)" > [longV]

u(.)(')[V] > w[V]
i(.)(')[V] > j[V]

[F](.)'[F] > [F]'[F]

(.)' > '


[F](.)[F] > [longF] / '(*)_

(.) > [longB] / '(*)_

fric += ʃ,ʒ


-ə(.)(ʔ) / _#

[V](.)h > [longV] / _#

a(.)(')[F] > aj
a(.)(') > aw

(')[F](.)(')a > ja
(')(.)(')a > wa

-ə / _(.)(')[V] | [longV] | #_



a[N](.) > ɛ / _[C]
ɛ[N](.) > e / _[C]
e[N](.) > i / _[C]
ə[N](.) > e / _[C]
o[N](.) > u / _[C]
ɯ[N](.) > ɯ / _[C]
u[N](.) > u / _[C]
ɪ[N](.) > ɪ / _[C]

u(.)wə > u:
i(.)jə > i:

ɣ > j / _([C]). | _([C])#

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k1234567890y
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by k1234567890y » 22 Oct 2019 11:27

Nachtuil wrote:
21 Oct 2019 15:53
I'm not familiar with the concept. Does this means that in the writing systems numbers just use different symbols for larger units and place them in a group without concern to order? If I = 1, V = 5, x=10, U = 100, then 27 could be XXVII OR IXXIV and 253 could be UUXXXXXIII OR XXIUUIIXXX? I'm just a bit fuzzy on what the implications are.
kinda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positional_notation

something used before the positional notation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign-value_notation

also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... al_systems
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by brblues » 22 Oct 2019 18:25

After I started outlining some ways in which my conlang has changed over time from the proto-lang to the Classical stage, I want to go a bit deeper into that, based on the morphosyntactic alignment; a tiny quirk there has grown into a strange system that unfortunately might deter any potential learners!

Changes to morphosyntactic alignment between Proto-Bokisig and Classical Bokisig

In Proto-Bokisig, only animate nouns could act as agents; in order to form a sentence with an inanimate agent, the inanimate noun is put into the instrumental and a dummy agent ("somebody") is used:

se-kom-du kiku sotki-mɛka-sig katma-mɛ
fire-PL-INST DUMMY.AGENT citizen-all-PL kill-PFV


“Fires killed all the citizens.”
(Also note the different plural suffixes, based on the semantics of the lexical item; the one used for “fire” originally meant “forest”, i.e. “a forest of fires”, while the one used with human nouns, /sig/, is “gathering”. The infix “mɛka” means “full”, so a “full gathering of citizens” means “all citizens”.)


Later on, the instrumental is re-analysed as ergative in such clauses, and the dummy agent is fused with the following noun as an accusative prefix, so by the Early Classical stage we get the following:

ʃe-k'u-d kɪk-sot.ki-mə.k'a-ʃɪg kat.m'am
fire-PL-ERG ACC-citizen-all-PL kill-PFV


At that time, the alignment was thus split as follows:

NOM: animate and inanimate subjects, animate and inanimate objects if the agent is inanimate, animate agents
ACC: objects if the agent is inanimate
ERG: inanimate agents


Through sound changes, the /i/ was centralized and finally deleted, shrinking the prefix until only /k/ is left; and by the Classical stage, the /k/ prefix had affected the following consonant (if any), and afterwards was deleted to simplify the cluster, effectively meaning that the ACC (for objects if the agent is inanimate) is now marked by the following initial consonant mutations (nouns starting in a vowel still just prefix /k/):

/kp kb km/ > /kw/ > /w/
/kl/ > /kɫ/ > /ɫ/
/kn/ > /ŋ/
/ks kz/ > /kʃ/ > /ʃ/
/kt kd/ > /t̠ʃ/
/kx kɣ/ > /kj gj/ > /j/



So the sentence, including the initial consonant mutation, looks like this:

ʃek'ud ʃot.ki-mə.k'a-ʃɪg kat.m'am
fire-PL-ERG ACC.citizen-all-PL kill-PFV

The initial /s/ changes to /ʃ/ to mark the accusative!

Finally, for Classical Bokisig, I want to generalize and analogize the alignment as follows:

NOM: animate and inanimate subjects, animate agents
ACC: objects
ERG: inanimate agents


There may be variations amongst other daughterlangs, also with regards to whether the whole noun phrase is prefixed, or only the noun, or all constituents of the noun phrase.

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by k1234567890y » 25 Oct 2019 17:37

@brblues nice and creative way for case marking! (: the way you mark accusative reminds me of how Nias marks absolutive
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil » 26 Oct 2019 05:56

So like the old Latin system? Ok, yeah I'm okay with sign value notation being the most prevalent system for most of the time.

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil » 26 Oct 2019 17:08

brblues wrote:
22 Oct 2019 18:25
After I started outlining some ways in which my conlang has changed over time from the proto-lang to the Classical stage, I want to go a bit deeper into that, based on the morphosyntactic alignment; a tiny quirk there has grown into a strange system that unfortunately might deter any potential learners!

...

Finally, for Classical Bokisig, I want to generalize and analogize the alignment as follows:

NOM: animate and inanimate subjects, animate agents
ACC: objects
ERG: inanimate agents


There may be variations amongst other daughterlangs, also with regards to whether the whole noun phrase is prefixed, or only the noun, or all constituents of the noun phrase.
I finally got around to reading this properly and also think it is rather neat!

Khemehekis: I've updated the classifiers. If they interest you as possible roots stemming from Txabao. I've indicted the current semantic scope of the words. Just to be clear I imagine the classifiers would have stemed from lexical items, probably nouns.
Spoiler:

S = stop F = fricative. ( ) = optional. [ / / / ] necessary but unspecified between options

1. o̰gwa /o̰kwa/
Used for inanimate objects as a catch all.
ʔokabe(F) -> ʔokaβe ->ʔõkawe -> õkowa -> o̰kwa

2. reba /repa/
Used for animate machines and living creatures.
(d)zipe(F) -> dzepa -> repa

3. chi /tʰi/
For long stiff objects - branches, spears, bones, pens
tʃ(ɾ)e(F) -> tʃʰe -> tʃʰi -> tʰi

4. oshi /o̰si/
For long flexible objects - vines, ropes, ribbons, limbs
ʔo [sɾ / xɾ / ʃɾ / ʃ] u (F) -> ʔõʃu -> õʃu -> õʃi ->o̰si

5. o̰ra
For flat stiff objects - tables, doors, the ground, plates
ʔodze(F) -> õ:dze-> õ:dze -> õ:dza -> o̰ra

6. jire /tire/
For flat flexible objects - blankets, sheets of paper, pelts
didzi (F) -> di:dzi -> di:re -> tire

7. so̤
Specifically for people or potentially pets endearingly.
[s / z / sɾ / xɾ / ʃɾ / kʃ / ʃ / ks] a S -> ʃ/s a F -> ʃ/s oh -> so̤


Also a non-classifier item:


xeʔu [z / zˤ / dz ] i (F / N / ʔ) -> hakḭrḛ : The third consonant needs to be zˤ if the final coda isn't a glottal stop or nasal.
“fighter or soldier”

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil » 27 Oct 2019 00:51

brblues wrote:
21 Oct 2019 20:06

Yeah, stress is marked by an apostrophe before the vowel of the syllable, not the whole syllable (as common in IPA), as I wanted to make it easier to refer to stressed vowels in the Sound Change Engine. The SCE I'm referring to is this nifty little tool: https://conworkshop.com/leashy/sce/

In the documentation you will find some info on how to use it, but best is usually to attempt to implement a rule and look up how to do things when you're stuck. For my rules I have used a somewhat weird notation and a lot of workarounds, as I often did not know how to exactly do something or a rule was not working, and sometimes I just played around till finding the mistake (one time I changed most of the rule notation up, only to in the end notice that the problem was that the "g" copied in from my list of changes into the editor window was different from the one it put when I typed into that window [:D] ).

All that being said, here are the changes from the proto-lang to the Early Classical stage:
Spoiler:
V = a,e,i,ɪ,o,u,ə,ɯ,ɛ
longV = a:,e:,i:,ɪ:,o:,u:,ə:,ɯ:,ɛ:,ɑ:

F = e,i,ɛ,ɪ
longF = e:,i:,ɛ:,ɪ:
B = o,u,ɯ
longB = o:,u:,ɯ:


C = p,t,k,ʔ,m,n,b,g,d,s,z,ʃ,ʒ,x,ɣ,h,l,j,w

vc = b,d,g,z,ʒ,ɣ
vlc = p,t,k,s,ʃ,x

labial = m,p,b

N = m,n

fric = s,z,x,ɣ,h
stop = t,d,k,g,ʔ

s > ʃ / _(')[F]
z > ʒ / _(')[F]

[vc] > [vlc] / _(.)[vlc]
[vlc] > [vc] / _(.)[vc]


u > ɯ ! [labial](')_

ɯ > ə ! '_
ɛ > ə ! '_

-ə / _#

i > ɪ / _[C]. | _(.)[C]#

u > y / '[F](.)([C])(.)([C])([C])_

o > ø / '[F](.)([C])(.)([C])([C])_

ɯ > i / '[F](.)([C])(.)([C])([C])_

i,ɪ > ɯ / '(.)([C])(.)([C])([C])_

e > o / '(.)([C])(.)([C])([C])_

fric += v,f
stop += b,p


[stop](.)h(.) > [fric]

[C](.)h > [C]"


m(.)m > mw
s(.)s > st
z(.)z > zd
n(.)n > nj

[C]w > [C]u / _#
[C]j > [C]i / _#


-ʔ / (')[V](.)_(.)(')[V]


[V](.)ə > [longV]

[V](.)" > [longV]

u(.)(')[V] > w[V]
i(.)(')[V] > j[V]

[F](.)'[F] > [F]'[F]

(.)' > '


[F](.)[F] > [longF] / '(*)_

(.) > [longB] / '(*)_

fric += ʃ,ʒ


-ə(.)(ʔ) / _#

[V](.)h > [longV] / _#

a(.)(')[F] > aj
a(.)(') > aw

(')[F](.)(')a > ja
(')(.)(')a > wa

-ə / _(.)(')[V] | [longV] | #_



a[N](.) > ɛ / _[C]
ɛ[N](.) > e / _[C]
e[N](.) > i / _[C]
ə[N](.) > e / _[C]
o[N](.) > u / _[C]
ɯ[N](.) > ɯ / _[C]
u[N](.) > u / _[C]
ɪ[N](.) > ɪ / _[C]

u(.)wə > u:
i(.)jə > i:

ɣ > j / _([C]). | _([C])#


Also, I haven't meant to ignore this, but just been too occupied to really dig into it though I'd like to.

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by k1234567890y » 27 Oct 2019 09:42

Sitr peoples traditionally did not have a national flag, and there are no laws about the national flag so far, and they used something similar to a Mongolian-Turkic tug/sulde for military banners in the past. A flag consisting of solely orange is the de facto national flag since the time of the 5th Republic.
Nachtuil wrote:
26 Oct 2019 05:56
So like the old Latin system? Ok, yeah I'm okay with sign value notation being the most prevalent system for most of the time.
yeah
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Khemehekis » 27 Oct 2019 23:18

Nachtuil wrote:
26 Oct 2019 17:08
Khemehekis: I've updated the classifiers. If they interest you as possible roots stemming from Txabao. I've indicted the current semantic scope of the words. Just to be clear I imagine the classifiers would have stemed from lexical items, probably nouns.
Awesome!
ʔokabe(F) -> ʔokaβe ->ʔõkawe -> õkowa -> o̰kwa
'okabez: possession (from 'oka, sack + -bez, suffix for things)
(d)zipe(F) -> dzepa -> repa
dzipe: spider (dzipu is louse in Kankonian!)
tʃ(ɾ)e(F) -> tʃʰe -> tʃʰi -> tʰi
txrez: spear
ʔo [sɾ / xɾ / ʃɾ / ʃ] u (F) -> ʔõʃu -> õʃu -> õʃi ->o̰si
'oqru: tail
ʔodze(F) -> õ:dze-> õ:dze -> õ:dza -> o̰ra
'odze: wood (later board, plank)
didzi (F) -> di:dzi -> di:re -> tire
didzi: drum (later used for an animal hide that covered a drum, then as pelt)
[s / z / sɾ / xɾ / ʃɾ / kʃ / ʃ / ks] a S -> ʃ/s a F -> ʃ/s oh -> so̤
kxap: mask
xeʔu [z / zˤ / dz ] i (F / N / ʔ) -> hakḭrḛ : The third consonant needs to be zˤ if the final coda isn't a glottal stop or nasal.
“fighter or soldier”
qe'u: a kind of round bagel/jelly doughnut roll eaten by the ancients, later circle, later a round shield + zhin, person
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 60,137 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil » 30 Oct 2019 22:52

Khemehekis wrote:
27 Oct 2019 23:18
ʔokabe(F) -> ʔokaβe ->ʔõkawe -> õkowa -> o̰kwa
'okabez: possession (from 'oka, sack + -bez, suffix for things)
Haha I enjoy some of these quite a bit like this one.
Khemehekis wrote:
27 Oct 2019 23:18
(d)zipe(F) -> dzepa -> repa
dzipe: spider (dzipu is louse in Kankonian!)
This is interesting! I guess it'll become more generalised quite a bit. Maybe going from spider to bug to something like "critter". A new spider word may come from weave or net or a foreign word. Or... a word for a subset of spiders becomes the general one.
Khemehekis wrote:
27 Oct 2019 23:18
tʃ(ɾ)e(F) -> tʃʰe -> tʃʰi -> tʰi
txrez: spear
Makes sense. I'll need to derive a new word for spear in the present I guess... although I guess it could be preserved. It is possible the original term referred to an older style of spear used for hunting and the new word for spear came from a term specialized for war. Maybe the new word could be a borrowing too.
Khemehekis wrote:
27 Oct 2019 23:18
ʔo [sɾ / xɾ / ʃɾ / ʃ] u (F) -> ʔõʃu -> õʃu -> õʃi ->o̰si
'oqru: tail
ʔodze(F) -> õ:dze-> õ:dze -> õ:dza -> o̰ra
'odze: wood (later board, plank)
didzi (F) -> di:dzi -> di:re -> tire
didzi: drum (later used for an animal hide that covered a drum, then as pelt)
[s / z / sɾ / xɾ / ʃɾ / kʃ / ʃ / ks] a S -> ʃ/s a F -> ʃ/s oh -> so̤
kxap: mask
Also interesting.
Khemehekis wrote:
27 Oct 2019 23:18
xeʔu [z / zˤ / dz ] i (F / N / ʔ) -> hakḭrḛ : The third consonant needs to be zˤ if the final coda isn't a glottal stop or nasal.
“fighter or soldier”
qe'u: a kind of round bagel/jelly doughnut roll eaten by the ancients, later circle, later a round shield + zhin, person
This one has to be my favourite! hahah. Kind of absurd but over two thousand years certainly plausible.

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Khemehekis » 31 Oct 2019 03:21

Nachtuil wrote:
30 Oct 2019 22:52
Khemehekis wrote:
27 Oct 2019 23:18
ʔokabe(F) -> ʔokaβe ->ʔõkawe -> õkowa -> o̰kwa
'okabez: possession (from 'oka, sack + -bez, suffix for things)
Haha I enjoy some of these quite a bit like this one.
Thanks! Now that I have -bez, I'll consider using it kind of like the Japanese -mono.
Nachtuil wrote:
30 Oct 2019 22:52
Khemehekis wrote:
27 Oct 2019 23:18
(d)zipe(F) -> dzepa -> repa
dzipe: spider (dzipu is louse in Kankonian!)
This is interesting! I guess it'll become more generalised quite a bit. Maybe going from spider to bug to something like "critter". A new spider word may come from weave or net or a foreign word. Or... a word for a subset of spiders becomes the general one.
Spider -> bug -> critter? Yep, sounds likely. It has the perfect sound, dzipe. It's likely "dzipe" will be replaced anyway, because people have a way of inventing new words for gross or scary animals -- the classic example being the way Russian speakers changed the PIE word for bear to 'honey-eater'. Long ago, English speakers called spiders attarcoppes.
Nachtuil wrote:
30 Oct 2019 22:52
Khemehekis wrote:
27 Oct 2019 23:18
tʃ(ɾ)e(F) -> tʃʰe -> tʃʰi -> tʰi
txrez: spear
Makes sense. I'll need to derive a new word for spear in the present I guess... although I guess it could be preserved. It is possible the original term referred to an older style of spear used for hunting and the new word for spear came from a term specialized for war. Maybe the new word could be a borrowing too.
Good idea. I can invent TWO words for spear in Txabao.

Nachtuil wrote:
30 Oct 2019 22:52
Khemehekis wrote:
27 Oct 2019 23:18
xeʔu [z / zˤ / dz ] i (F / N / ʔ) -> hakḭrḛ : The third consonant needs to be zˤ if the final coda isn't a glottal stop or nasal.
“fighter or soldier”
qe'u: a kind of round bagel/jelly doughnut roll eaten by the ancients, later circle, later a round shield + zhin, person
This one has to be my favourite! hahah. Kind of absurd but over two thousand years certainly plausible.
I had to really stretch my imagination to think of what Txabao people would know that was round besides wheels. Glad you like it, though. And a bonus is that zhin ends up looking a lot like the Sino-Japanese jin, especially if a reader mispronounces ZH the way it's used in pronunciation guides ("s as in vision") in English fictionaries.

Which culture will invent the qe'u?
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 60,137 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by brblues » 31 Oct 2019 19:08

Nachtuil wrote:
30 Oct 2019 22:52

I'll need to derive a new word for spear in the present I guess... although I guess it could be preserved. It is possible the original term referred to an older style of spear used for hunting and the new word for spear came from a term specialized for war. Maybe the new word could be a borrowing too.
FWIW, the Proto-Bokisig word for spear is /ɣu.'pɛ.da/, derived from /'ɣu.pɛ/ "sting" + /da/ "hand" (also sometimes used to derive tools/instruments). I've not run it through the sound changes yet though, so it would need to be a fairly early borrowing! (Or I could just give you the word after doing the changes.)

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil » 03 Nov 2019 02:03

brblues wrote:
31 Oct 2019 19:08

FWIW, the Proto-Bokisig word for spear is /ɣu.'pɛ.da/, derived from /'ɣu.pɛ/ "sting" + /da/ "hand" (also sometimes used to derive tools/instruments). I've not run it through the sound changes yet though, so it would need to be a fairly early borrowing! (Or I could just give you the word after doing the changes.)
I would be quite happy to adopt it, even at that early stage. /ɣu.'pɛ.da/ Could enter at an early stage where ɣ has just become phonemic in the language already. It actually fits in quite nicely, so nicely it can hide out as if it were a Txabao word from the start, eventually becoming ... /wipero/. Gracias :p

I'd be quite happy to borrow a lot of words actually. :D I've been meaning to review your conlangs history but I imagine that the Pro-Kojikeng would have left the Txabao homeland at some point but I'm not sure the timeline. I had wanted them to venture west and south because of a seismic event disrupting a water system that they previously relied upon but they spent a great deal of time doing Txabao things like keeping herds of animals and eating "qe'u".

It has occurred to me that perhaps the the Proto-Kojikeng and Proto-Bokisig interacted a while before they moved on. We could say they were sometimes allies sometimes rivals to each other but were both driven west or exiled to the west by the /neduki/ at the same time the neduk Proto-Bokisig were driven out of their homeland. For some words to transfer I imagine that they would have spent a good 50 years or so at least being friendly. :P Unlike the Bokisig, the Proto-Kojikeng would never again roam or hold territory in their homeland. :'( (except maybe as traders in future generations) For this to work I have to conceive of them as never having become fully urban up to that point but having retained strong herdsman traditions while dabbling with settlement life.

Having the Kojikeng travel west first then south to their peninsula would let me nab even more words from the Sitr people :p It would likely have to be indirectly though unless they had some colonies along the western shoreline maybe.
Khemehekis wrote:
31 Oct 2019 03:21

I had to really stretch my imagination to think of what Txabao people would know that was round besides wheels. Glad you like it, though. And a bonus is that zhin ends up looking a lot like the Sino-Japanese jin, especially if a reader mispronounces ZH the way it's used in pronunciation guides ("s as in vision") in English fictionaries.

Which culture will invent the qe'u?
It definitely worked! I enjoy that the lexicon I can draw from keeps growing :P
I don't know, but I imagine from a people who had agriculture already.

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil » 03 Nov 2019 02:34

brblues wrote:
31 Oct 2019 19:08
FWIW, the Proto-Bokisig word for spear is /ɣu.'pɛ.da/, derived from /'ɣu.pɛ/ "sting" + /da/ "hand"
I am also curious what the next stage might look like but it depends on what part of the history of the language the events I've described occur at (the original loss of the Bokisig homeland. I have realised I'll need to assign the eventual word a noun class to belong to as well. :P

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by brblues » 03 Nov 2019 19:50

Nachtuil wrote:
03 Nov 2019 02:03

I would be quite happy to adopt it, even at that early stage. /ɣu.'pɛ.da/ Could enter at an early stage where ɣ has just become phonemic in the language already. It actually fits in quite nicely, so nicely it can hide out as if it were a Txabao word from the start, eventually becoming ... /wipero/. Gracias :p

I'd be quite happy to borrow a lot of words actually. :D I've been meaning to review your conlangs history but I imagine that the Pro-Kojikeng would have left the Txabao homeland at some point but I'm not sure the timeline. I had wanted them to venture west and south because of a seismic event disrupting a water system that they previously relied upon but they spent a great deal of time doing Txabao things like keeping herds of animals and eating "qe'u".
I posted a very rough sketch of the timeline for the development of my lang from the proto-lang to the Classical stage here in my thread, in case that helps! I also got a lot more vocab than I've shown so far in the few example sentences posted. Wondering whether making vocab databases as k123456789y has done would be a good idea for all of us for borrowing words? Full disclosure: I am not sure how much effort that requires nor how it works, I just keep mine in a table in my Word document.
It has occurred to me that perhaps the the Proto-Kojikeng and Proto-Bokisig interacted a while before they moved on. We could say they were sometimes allies sometimes rivals to each other but were both driven west or exiled to the west by the /neduki/ at the same time the neduk Proto-Bokisig were driven out of their homeland. For some words to transfer I imagine that they would have spent a good 50 years or so at least being friendly. :P Unlike the Bokisig, the Proto-Kojikeng would never again roam or hold territory in their homeland. :'( (except maybe as traders in future generations) For this to work I have to conceive of them as never having become fully urban up to that point but having retained strong herdsman traditions while dabbling with settlement life.

Having the Kojikeng travel west first then south to their peninsula would let me nab even more words from the Sitr people :p It would likely have to be indirectly though unless they had some colonies along the western shoreline maybe.
I would love that, but see some geographical issues regarding how that could work because the distance might be too big, with my people settled to the east of the mountain range and yours presumably to the west...

An option might be if you want to have a migration path in which your people start in the west (in the desert) together with the Txabao (when both languages were still one the same proto-language), and then split off the Txabao family once the Txabao go east and into the wars against my people, which take place roughly between PS8,000 and 8,350. You could then have the origin of your language be part of the population that settles in the rainforest in the Southeast (Southeast of the mountain range, right-hand side half of D5), and finally migrate (for some reason...) through the westwards through the savannah towards your peninsula. Living in a rainforest area would provide you with the know-how to master the climate zone of the Western Peninsula (which is also a rainforest area).

This would all make a lot more sense to show on the map, but I am currently despairong over GIMP and have grown a bit frustrated with it, so words will have to do for now :D

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil » 05 Nov 2019 03:04

brblues wrote:
03 Nov 2019 19:50
I posted a very rough sketch of the timeline for the development of my lang from the proto-lang to the Classical stage here in my thread, in case that helps! I also got a lot more vocab than I've shown so far in the few example sentences posted. Wondering whether making vocab databases as k123456789y has done would be a good idea for all of us for borrowing words? Full disclosure: I am not sure how much effort that requires nor how it works, I just keep mine in a table in my Word document.
I'll have to look into it myself.
I would love that, but see some geographical issues regarding how that could work because the distance might be too big, with my people settled to the east of the mountain range and yours presumably to the west...

An option might be if you want to have a migration path in which your people start in the west (in the desert) together with the Txabao (when both languages were still one the same proto-language), and then split off the Txabao family once the Txabao go east and into the wars against my people, which take place roughly between PS8,000 and 8,350. You could then have the origin of your language be part of the population that settles in the rainforest in the Southeast (Southeast of the mountain range, right-hand side half of D5), and finally migrate (for some reason...) through the westwards through the savannah towards your peninsula. Living in a rainforest area would provide you with the know-how to master the climate zone of the Western Peninsula (which is also a rainforest area).

This would all make a lot more sense to show on the map, but I am currently despairing over GIMP and have grown a bit frustrated with it, so words will have to do for now :D
Ah ok! I was under the impression the Txabao started on the eastern side of the mountain divide, perhaps because that is where I had intended them to start initially (that and north). I suppose it is quite plausible the proto-Kojikeng did a lot of trading along a mountain corridor between the two grassland/desert regions and over a period of time contact was fairly frequent and there was some intermarriage at least into the Kojikeng tribe. The Kojikeng travelling along the south eastern shore to their eventual home could work in a quasi or fully nomadic lifestyle.
I'm going to think about it but either could work. It is tempting to eventually head back straight west to grab some Sitr words if possible or incorporate words from other Txabao daughter languages to grab some cognates of words I already have :P Maybe they did migrate over for a century or two keeping some cultural and economic ties to the Txabao groups but the Neduki's rise to power in the east causing them to migrate back to the western portion through the pass.

I don't know if you saw it but I did a new version of the map with photoshop and the climate areas. https://www.flickr.com/photos/184958086 ... 885132808/

Maybe we could work together closely if you have trouble with gimp.

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by k1234567890y » 05 Nov 2019 18:52

I put many of my things about Classical Sitr on CWS.

The Classical Sitr word moushana is an adverb mainly used in situations similar to English "happen to V" and "by chance"
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by brblues » 06 Nov 2019 13:32

Nachtuil wrote:
05 Nov 2019 03:04


I don't know if you saw it but I did a new version of the map with photoshop and the climate areas. https://www.flickr.com/photos/184958086 ... 885132808/

Maybe we could work together closely if you have trouble with gimp.
I did see that, good work! At some point we should also do the following with the map:

a) Different elevation heights; I assume this to be quite involved - though maybe k123456789y has already given some thought to the terrain when creating the map?

b) Rivers, as they will be quite important to the civilisations; their placement is naturally closely linked to a).

Working together would be great - if you were willing to join the unofficial CBB discord, communication could be made easier, but we could also just PM on here obviously!

Another idea regarding migration: The Neduki themselves might, if they survive long enough, also develop a Txabao daughterlang, given they are simply that portion of the Txabao people that ventured eastwards, and then formed a kingdom there in the wake of the wars against the Bokisig people. If a portion of those people survives and stays in the general area, we could have a daughterlang that might eventually develop into Kodikeng instead of that just being an unknown factor.

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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Khemehekis » 07 Nov 2019 14:43

All right, so yesterday I got this awesome idea for a futuristic technology that we could have by PS 13,000.

You know virtual reality? Well, this is called cerebral reality. You go to a CR center and you see a tiger, or a dragon, or an abomhiz, or a spear, or a sword, or a tank, or a palm tree, or a treadmill, or a river, or a dune, or a mountain, or whatever, but it's not projected by VR technology, the vision is actually coming from your brain. Your visions are fed to you and the other people in the CR center by a dreamstream attached to your head, coming from a drug we'll call metechin in English (from the Greek root for "share"). Such a shared vision is called a metecheidon. The metechin is stored in a metpump on the ground, and several people sit or stand around it in a circular chair called a puntchair (because it's split radially like the punt in a bottle) to enjoy their metecheida. The field of vision around you in which your metecheidon appears is called your dreamfield.

As the people hang around in the CR center on their puntchair, they can share an adventure. They can ride through a river that leads to the underworld, passing through their dreamfields. Seigo can save Conchita from a three-headed monster, or Ingrid can catch Paolo as he feels as if he's falling from the balcony of an arcology tower. Carly can see hundreds of fans of eiverse genders, races, and ages listen to her in a concert and hound her for autographs, or Geoff can go through a herd of abomhiz and hunt them in the savannahs of ancient Damta.
♂♥♂♀

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