Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by ol bofosh » 15 Feb 2015 11:19

Gnoughish Tribes
They have some slavery, mostly of the non-human or semi-human races, which they consider as lacking in personhood. There is some light slavery of humans, but they are in their position for being gravely dishonourable or to pay an honour debt, and they are usually cared for well, and there is a time limit on it.
Some tribes, like the Nuggoubrians, have much of their economies driven by it
Other tribes, like the Saggogys, don't rely on it and in some circumstances oppose it. But even Sagoggys often treat and use some sapient species as "mere" animals.

Alahithians
They are totally against any form of slavery. They were slaves themselves, bound to fight or eliminate the enemies of their masters. When they encounter it they seek to undermine and eliminate it as they see fit.

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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by Tanni » 15 Mar 2015 15:24

Slavery, what's that? We Catys are supposed to fly -- and we need to fly, otherwise we'll get ill or depressive and pass away soon. The skies are wide, you know!
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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by Foolster41 » 23 Mar 2015 04:41

The only kind of slavery in Saltha is debt slavery, that is what you would call "hard labor" sentences for crimes or debt. Saltha has been for a long time very isolationist and then became a democracy soon after, so it didn't have the contact with other nations required for inter-racial slave trade. In 2712 NG Reform laws pass that outlawed debt inheritance, so children no longer go into debt for their children.

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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by elemtilas » 23 Mar 2015 19:41

Foolster41 wrote:The only kind of slavery in Saltha is debt slavery, that is what you would call "hard labor" sentences for crimes or debt. Saltha has been for a long time very isolationist and then became a democracy soon after, so it didn't have the contact with other nations required for inter-racial slave trade. In 2712 NG Reform laws pass that outlawed debt inheritance, so children no longer go into debt for their children.
Democracy . . . that sounds very dangerous indeed! What is it?

Anyway, your reformed debt slavery law sounds very appealing. How has it worked out? If a debtor snuffs it in your workhouses, how will the creditor be repaid and how will the House itself recoup any losses incurred by the untimely demise of the debtor?

At least in Auntimoany, the rates paid to child debt-heirs is the same as to adult debt-heirs (according to a debt slavery reform Act of 2000); but there are those agitating for a further reform that would indeed cancel the debt upon the death of the one owing it. Not that it makes a whole lot of sense, especially to the creditors!, since many other kinds of debt must be paid by the debtor's heirs. So why is this kind of debt seen differently in Saltha?

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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by Ahzoh » 23 Mar 2015 23:32

Squal wrote:Slavery
ʾIm ʾablu Vakkama Pizat Ḵena:
From the perspective of Empress Pizat Khena, 800 YU (equivalent to 500 AD):

"Slavery has existed in The Great Land [Vrkhazh] long before the Great Lion [Iqhamek Arash-Hijunu] united our people as one, though he was unfavourable to the concept. But, what does he know?

The labour of enemies is my empire's strongest economy. Much of my empire relies on forced labour of our enemies and our spoils of war. There exists two tiers of slavery in my empire: the enslavement of prisoners of war and employment of debt slavery mainly to those who cannot pay their debts, though it can extend to those who are criminally accused.
Those who are bound into debt slavery are treated considerably better than those slaves captured as prisoners of war. They are sufficiently housed and fed and given basic decency. One is only in debt slavery for a maximum of 20 years, and then becomes a freeman. Ordinary slaves are like so for their lifetime.

I see nothing wrong with the force labour of enemies after war, we can't simply let them go and attack us again. It is vital to an empress for the growth of her empire that those who are taken as spoils of war must be forced to work. It is as nature intends, to dominate others. There is no other way."
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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by Foolster41 » 24 Mar 2015 00:19

elemtilas wrote:
Foolster41 wrote:The only kind of slavery in Saltha is debt slavery, that is what you would call "hard labor" sentences for crimes or debt. Saltha has been for a long time very isolationist and then became a democracy soon after, so it didn't have the contact with other nations required for inter-racial slave trade. In 2712 NG Reform laws pass that outlawed debt inheritance, so children no longer go into debt for their children.
Anyway, your reformed debt slavery law sounds very appealing. How has it worked out? If a debtor snuffs it in your workhouses, how will the creditor be repaid and how will the House itself recoup any losses incurred by the untimely demise of the debtor?
It's worked out fairly well. There was maybe some attempts at fraud, to get people to pay them, but that is pretty rare. A debtor dying basically just ends things. Some of the money out of an inherited estate may go to creditors, but otherwise debt is not inherited.

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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by elemtilas » 24 Mar 2015 22:30

Ahzoh wrote:
Squal wrote:Slavery
ʾIm ʾablu Vakkama Pizat Ḵena:
From the perspective of Empress Pizat Khena, 800 YU (equivalent to 500 AD):

"Slavery has existed in The Great Land [Vrkhazh] long before the Great Lion [Iqhamek Arash-Hijunu] united our people as one, though he was unfavourable to the concept. But, what does he know?

The labour of enemies is my empire's strongest economy. Much of my empire relies on forced labour of our enemies and our spoils of war. There exists two tiers of slavery in my empire: the enslavement of prisoners of war and employment of debt slavery mainly to those who cannot pay their debts, though it can extend to those who are criminally accused.
Those who are bound into debt slavery are treated considerably better than those slaves captured as prisoners of war. They are sufficiently housed and fed and given basic decency. One is only in debt slavery for a maximum of 20 years, and then becomes a freeman. Ordinary slaves are like so for their lifetime.

I see nothing wrong with the force labour of enemies after war, we can't simply let them go and attack us again. It is vital to an empress for the growth of her empire that those who are taken as spoils of war must be forced to work. It is as nature intends, to dominate others. There is no other way."
Gosh, that sounds every bit as horrid as this democracy thing of the Salthans! Surely it is best to temper the voice and whim of the People with the wisdom and counsel of the wise elders and balance all with a just monarch, ruling according to the commission of Heaven? It's either tyranny of the autocrat or tyranny of the mob with Men! In Auntimoany, we've done our best to curb their strange excesses -- all for their own good of course -- but they continue in their native weirdness. They wìll insist on letting their boys ascend to the imperial dignity more often than not, even though it ought to be obvious even to the most obtuse of them that, as with us Daine, their girls do a far better job of it!

We do commend your empire on its sane debt slavery practice, but remain horrified at the notion of perpetual spoils slavery! Does your empress have no sense of honour in victory at all? An enemy who fought with honour and valour ought to be respected in victory, for then he might in time return as a friend, or at least as a business partner. Else the only recourse the nations of your spoils slaves have is to raise further armies and wage ever more wars in order to free those whose courage your empress has sullied!

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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by qwed117 » 24 Mar 2015 22:37

Nue Topic: Incest and LGBT relationships

The Average Aigan would be angered by incest, but more or less okay with LGBT.

Since incest is often indicative of abusive relationships, incestuous relationships are often banned completely. They are associated with disease and abnormality. LGBT relationships are much more interesting. The LGBT community of Aiga is very shamanic and are highly revered as those who can do both "duties". The LGBT community is also associated with more safe sexual practices than the cis-identity community. While childish gangs do target LGBT, that is believed to be because of an innate idiocy present in the universe
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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by Ahzoh » 24 Mar 2015 23:18

elemtilas wrote:We do commend your empire on its sane debt slavery practice, but remain horrified at the notion of perpetual spoils slavery! Does your empress have no sense of honour in victory at all? An enemy who fought with honour and valour ought to be respected in victory, for then he might in time return as a friend, or at least as a business partner. Else the only recourse the nations of your spoils slaves have is to raise further armies and wage ever more wars in order to free those whose courage your empress has sullied!
Those who fight with honour and valor do not allow themselves to be caught at the enemy's hands.
You do not know the nature of our enemies that we fight: Invaders.
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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by Egerius » 24 Mar 2015 23:50

qwed117 wrote:New Topic: Incest and LGBT relationships
Incest - we had that. In Antiquity, during the Middle Ages, even today. The usual sentence is a therapy or, in serve cases, prison and isolation.
In the Ancient Republic of Buonavalle, the Emperors were often products of incest - they usually had white fur and, according to the sources, had mental and physical problems.
The nobility finally could abolish the monarchy in 312 AUC and went for a democracy - the Hellenics (= Greeks) have a monarchy until this day (3015 AUC), but it's constitutional (and some degree of incest).

LGBT? We had LGB, we still have LGB and the T appeared some decades ago - officially.
Bisexuality is permissible according to church (the Megalobiblion has an opaque passage on that and the clergy recommends keeping your 'nighttime adventures' private).
It's been somewhat common throughout history, especially with the military.

Homosexuality is not really welcome in the church (they quote The Big Book and say abstinence is the goal here), but society is a bit further. Haters gonna hate, but most of the gays and lesbians don't even care. It's been way worse in the past, though: imprisonment or a hilarious fine were the norm for coming out of the closet until the early 70s.

Transgender is a different story: Psychologists research on the causes and doctors are making great progress at cosmetic surgeries.
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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by elemtilas » 25 Mar 2015 04:04

qwed117 wrote:Nue Topic: Incest and LGBT relationships

The Average Aigan would be angered by incest, but more or less okay with LGBT.

Since incest is often indicative of abusive relationships, incestuous relationships are often banned completely. They are associated with disease and abnormality. LGBT relationships are much more interesting. The LGBT community of Aiga is very shamanic and are highly revered as those who can do both "duties". The LGBT community is also associated with more safe sexual practices than the cis-identity community. While childish gangs do target LGBT, that is believed to be because of an innate idiocy present in the universe
Incest is most often, as you rightfully say, a matter of an abusive relationship. We don't talk about it much with Men -- they say they hate it, but freely engage in it all the same! It is very rare among us, but when incest is indeed a matter of abuse, we strike out with wrath: such a boy as forces his daughter to have sex with him will find himself castrated at the very least. He will undergo the Change, and as I understand it, that's a pretty dire punishment right there. Becoming a girl and all. He'll be branded and cast out of society. He will wander alone, unwanted, unaided, turned away, his pleas ignored; his mind will be eaten away by the knowledge of his crime and his heart will be crushed by the terrible isolation of body and spirit! Among us Daine, this is a most severe penalty, to be cut off from everyone else in the world! He will soon enough wish he had been tried by Men in their wooden courtrooms by their wig bedight justices on their high benches -- they would send him off to the gallows (on a good day), and a relatively quick end, dancing Dan Jones his Jigg along with the mournful viol; or perhaps they'll send him to the Halls of Amouraz. Immurement is certainly not a pleasant way to die, and there's no viols, but it only takes a few days and perhaps it beats dying alone and after your heart and mind have been eaten away by the guilt?

But there's that other kind of incest. The one Men think is gross, and even we think is just a little bit creepy. It happens to twins -- like my cousin's kids. Now, among us, twins are very tight, whether they're the best of friends or the worst of adversaries, they are always very close. Like one person in two bodies. I envy my little brothers that way -- best of friends, always have each others backs, think each others thoughts and dream each others dreams. They play a game only twins can master: one will say a word, and then the other will say the next word. And back and forth they go, finishing each other's thoughts, starting each other's sentences. It's uncanny how they can go so fast and somehow know with absolute certainty what the other one is thinking in advance...tis a game those of us who aren't twins can never manage!

But my cousin's kids are a different matter. Very rarely, there will be twins that are born a boy and a girl together. They're close too. Too close -- always their arms are wrapped around each other, and they stare into each other's eyes like two star-crossed lovers that just met at the fair! Mother thinks they're horrid; her sister wishes she had matched them with another set of twins when they were little -- perhaps they would have ended up more normal you know, if they had someone else to latch on to?? I don't know quite what to think! They're still young, and so long as they keep the snogging to themselves, no one seems to mind too much apart from a few uncomfortable glances in their direction. I've heard stories where these siblings go too far and wind up snuffed -- some folks don't take too kindly to twins that get this way! I've heard that children born to such unions are very weird indeed. I know they can't help it but it seems there's no right solution either...

Hmm. Lehmann Gross Bahn Trains -- I certainly asked around, but we are stumped. We're not quite sure how it is Men in your world can have relationships with broad gauge railway locomotives. . . Or what the caravanway has to do with incest. Perhaps Man and Machine were meant for each other? Looking around in this great City, I think I could agree with that! But then again, you are Men, and we Daine know you are all just a touch looney! I don't mean to say we dislike the caravanway! I have to admit we do like how Men have built the caravanway network here in the Eastlands -- riding up on top of the carriages sure beats rattling along in a stage coach or walking all the way to Westmarche to visit the family! (But on the other hand, I wouldn't ride all the way! You miss out on meeting people and staying with them for a time, and seeing what is to be seen along the Road!) But ah, aren't the carriages and brontoreedes so gaily painted? Or so my sister tells me! -- She's so fond of reminding me how girls are so clever for being able to see every colour there is to see, and boy, can she name every hue and shade imaginable!, while we boys can only see grey, grey, grey, black and more grey! How annoying is that! She doesn't get how, well, how deeply we see in those greys and how vividly we see the smallest of details in those blacks! But enough of girls and their colour fixation! And my God, don't you Men know how to build everything so bloody BIG! Drivers as big as bloody mill wheels, the whole locomotive built to look like an old temple, with an old time god standing up on top and the carriages look like grand town houses, and oh, how spacious are the carriages inside! I can just about stretch me wings out and not feel all cramped! Yes, I could ride in your caravan trains all day long! And we take not a little pride in knowing that it's our artificers who came up with the homuncules that power these mighty engines, and as well how to train them with chimes! What a music your caravan trains make when they pull into or out of a station!

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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by elemtilas » 25 Mar 2015 04:16

Ahzoh wrote:
elemtilas wrote:We do commend your empire on its sane debt slavery practice, but remain horrified at the notion of perpetual spoils slavery! Does your empress have no sense of honour in victory at all? An enemy who fought with honour and valour ought to be respected in victory, for then he might in time return as a friend, or at least as a business partner. Else the only recourse the nations of your spoils slaves have is to raise further armies and wage ever more wars in order to free those whose courage your empress has sullied!
Those who fight with honour and valor do not allow themselves to be caught at the enemy's hands.
You do not know the nature of our enemies that we fight: Invaders.
Ah, the selfsightedness of Men! Always thinking of what seems right for their own purposes and their own egos in the moment and never taking heed for what ought to have been put right in the past or what may be best for tomorrow's tomorrow! Invaders -- does your empress not think that the kinfolk of all her precious slaves will not remember her kindly treatment of her slaves? Does she think they will not rise up against her grand daughter or her grand daughter's grand daughter and overthrow her queendom? For all she is a girl, she has so little wisdom! I wonder, is she very young perhaps, and thus unaware of things outside her own experience? You Men live but a short while -- we forget, sometimes, that you have such a small space of time to gain any amount of learning or wisdom! Yet, even so, we would not tolerate a Great Queen to behave so! Can your elders not depose her and let another, more mature, girl ascend to the imperial dignity?

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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by Ahzoh » 25 Mar 2015 04:30

Ah, the selfsightedness of Men! Always thinking of what seems right for their own purposes and their own egos in the moment and never taking heed for what ought to have been put right in the past or what may be best for tomorrow's tomorrow! Invaders -- does your empress not think that the kinfolk of all her precious slaves will not remember her kindly treatment of her slaves? Does she think they will not rise up against her grand daughter or her grand daughter's grand daughter and overthrow her queendom? For all she is a girl, she has so little wisdom! I wonder, is she very young perhaps, and thus unaware of things outside her own experience? You Men live but a short while -- we forget, sometimes, that you have such a small space of time to gain any amount of learning or wisdom! Yet, even so, we would not tolerate a Great Queen to behave so! Can your elders not depose her and let another, more mature, girl ascend to the imperial dignity?
I'm not pleased by your condescendence... watch your tongue our I'll rip it out... better yet... hmm maybe heat up a metal rod and stick it in your eyes? <3 perhaps I'll flay you and burn your family alive? I get so giddy thinking about such fun...
Elders? The empress or emperor does not consult in that manner; those were old times.

They can't rise up, we cut their tongues so they can't speak and the alikdad (soldiers, town guards) are strong and skilled warriors. Let's just say, a runaway slave won't make it out of the empire... in one piece... <3
Not to mention, we have strong ally who would aid us if such an event would happen: Ngu-Cam in the north.
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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by elemtilas » 25 Mar 2015 22:18

Ahzoh wrote:
Ah, the selfsightedness of Men!
I'm not pleased by your condescendence... watch your tongue our I'll rip it out... better yet... hmm maybe heat up a metal rod and stick it in your eyes? <3 perhaps I'll flay you and burn your family alive? I get so giddy thinking about such fun...
Elders? The empress or emperor does not consult in that manner; those were old times.

They can't rise up, we cut their tongues so they can't speak and the alikdad (soldiers, town guards) are strong and skilled warriors. Let's just say, a runaway slave won't make it out of the empire... in one piece... <3
Not to mention, we have strong ally who would aid us if such an event would happen: Ngu-Cam in the north.
Ah, your empress has a very fine sense of humour indeed! I am made to smile in hearing it!

I can assure your empress I have experienced the Justice of Men -- I have been cuffed, haled up before judges, tried, been found guilty, and have suffered punishments at the hands of Men your red hot poker wielding empress would cringe at, quaking with dread! I have passed through the fires of Trial and have been made to undergo the Change -- I have no fear of the wanjustice of Men!

So, in the past of your empire, your rulers acknowledged the wisdom of the Elders as well? That is good, for everywhere touched by their grace, some good yet lingers, even within earth long accustomed to the wanton spilling of blood...

I must wonder, though, do your empress's allies come at her bidding or is she heeled to their chain?...

Tell me about this empress of yours -- how is she elected? What sort of government is she head of? I have heard about this democracy thing, and am sure that in no way figures! Clearly she is an autocrat, and though I despise the tyranny of the one every bit as much as the tyranny of the many, I find it most interesting to learn about. What sort of empire does she rule over, apart from mewling slaves and desert sands!

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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by gestaltist » 26 Mar 2015 09:13

elemtilas wrote: Tell me about this empress of yours -- how is she elected? What sort of government is she head of? I have heard about this democracy thing, and am sure that in no way figures! Clearly she is an autocrat, and though I despise the tyranny of the one every bit as much as the tyranny of the many, I find it most interesting to learn about. What sort of empire does she rule over, apart from mewling slaves and desert sands!
I hope my interjection won’t be taken as rudeness. I am also very interested in this democracy thing. We, Maandi, let the gods appoint the next king. It strikes me as the only way to assure just governance. Men are easily corrupted and swayed by empty promises. I don’t know how either hereditary rule or democracy could ever work well.

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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by Egerius » 26 Mar 2015 10:15

gestaltist wrote:We, Maandi, let the gods appoint the next king. It strikes me as the only way to assure just governance. Men are easily corrupted and swayed by empty promises. I don’t know how either hereditary rule or democracy could ever work well.[/i]
A theocracy never really worked here. The Hellans (Greeks) tried this in antiquity and the priests died after almost a year of 'reign'. Some say they inhaled too much toxic gas.
Kings proclaim themselves servants of God and only serve themselves.

Of course, a democracy also has its pitfalls, but we Virromans, all across Larroma, Saselva and Argemont, have all the people who may vote as a last instance of control. Lawyers work for the state to counter corruption and if nobody can come to terms in the senate, the people vote.
Historically, we've been following the creed 'VÓX PÓPVLÍ • VÓX DEÍ', the voice of the people is the voice of God. Because who can represent God better than the believing people?
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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by gestaltist » 26 Mar 2015 11:42

Egerius wrote: A theocracy never really worked here. The Hellans (Greeks) tried this in antiquity and the priests died after almost a year of 'reign'. Some say they inhaled too much toxic gas.
Kings proclaim themselves servants of God and only serve themselves.

Of course, a democracy also has its pitfalls, but we Virromans, all across Larroma, Saselva and Argemont, have all the people who may vote as a last instance of control. Lawyers work for the state to counter corruption and if nobody can come to terms in the senate, the people vote.
Historically, we've been following the creed 'VÓX PÓPVLÍ • VÓX DEÍ', the voice of the people is the voice of God. Because who can represent God better than the believing people?
No Maan would consider our kingdom to be a theocracy. The gods appoint the king but he is never a priest. The king is there to protect the kingdom, to enforce laws and to fight battles. The gods are jealous of their servants and would never set them free of their priestly duties.

It makes sense to me, though: if the gods don’t care about your country enough to tell you who the best ruler is, you have to find another way.

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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by elemtilas » 26 Mar 2015 21:49

gestaltist wrote:We, Maandi, let the gods appoint the next king. It strikes me as the only way to assure just governance. Men are easily corrupted and swayed by empty promises. I don’t know how either hereditary rule or democracy could ever work well.[/i]

We Daine have no gods, in the way Men seem to understand the concept. We do venerate the Powers, after the fashion of the Teyor, but we understand they are beings akin to ourselves, though of much greater power and grace. We ourselves have been worshipped ás gods by Men in ancient times, and they still tell stories about the mighty winged Titan, Prometeos, the First Teacher of Men! We know that Men will worship anything they can be brought to fear, which we do not understand. There is only one thing worthy of that worship, and yet Men find excuses to take everything but for their gods!

But in their defense, I must say the Men of Narutanea, of the Eastlands that is, have been well taught how to properly choose their monarchs and how those monarchs must well and properly reign over their kingdoms! They can call it the will of a god if they wish, but we call it the Commission of Heaven and it is the foundational principle of the government of modern Auntimoany, and indeed is also the founding principle of any legitimate government. Key here is the understanding and application of the Three Covenants and that they are in harmonious operation. If so, that government is considered legitimate and the blessings heaped upon the ruler and the earthly worship of his people come about because the ruler acts with justice and love at all times, honoring the Three Covenants. And these blessings can be taken away if the underlying nature of the Commission is not followed; and this taking away of the Commission is almost always done in an especially entertaining fashion.

The Three Covenants of a legitimate government are: that the Emperor reigns only with the consent of his people; that the Emperor reigns in covenant with the Heavenly Father & the Law of Heaven and that the Emperor reigns in covenant with the constitutions of the realm. With these Three Covenants in balance, the Empire flourishes and the Emperor himself truly beams with a divine aura and is able to work the particular dwimmery proper to a legitimate king at the head of a legitimate government of a prosperous nation.

In Auntimoany, the emperor is chosen, ultimately, by the Ministry of Kingmaking who will select from among all the eligible candidates and ultimately acclaimed by the Parliament, who are, for the most part, chosen from among the whole People (which until very recently meant Men only). If an emperor should in some way fail in his promise, then those same Ministers of Kingmaking may, perhaps, become responsible for kingunmaking!
Egerius wrote:A theocracy never really worked here. The Hellans (Greeks) tried this in antiquity and the priests died after almost a year of 'reign'. Some say they inhaled too much toxic gas.
Kings proclaim themselves servants of God and only serve themselves.

Of course, a democracy also has its pitfalls, but we Virromans, all across Larroma, Saselva and Argemont, have all the people who may vote as a last instance of control. Lawyers work for the state to counter corruption and if nobody can come to terms in the senate, the people vote.
Historically, we've been following the creed 'VÓX PÓPVLÍ • VÓX DEÍ', the voice of the people is the voice of God. Because who can represent God better than the believing people?
As far as we know in the East, the cousins of Men in the Uttermost West seem to prefer this theocracy. The Remans there, for all the many religions they profess, still worship their pharaohs as god-kings. And yet, their empire is crumbling to pieces, with more "associate kingdoms" and "semi-autonomous provinces" than actual constituent provinces controlled by their central government! Will the divine Ankh-Alexandra iv be able to save her empire or will she die with it? Frankly, the news out of the West is not comforting, at least on the part of Men of those lands!, for war is upon them again and few of the Wise in the East foresee anything other than calamity and ruin heaped upon the destruction and desolation already wrought there!

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gestaltist
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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by gestaltist » 26 Mar 2015 22:05

elemtilas wrote: The Three Covenants of a legitimate government are: that the Emperor reigns only with the consent of his people; that the Emperor reigns in covenant with the Heavenly Father & the Law of Heaven and that the Emperor reigns in covenant with the constitutions of the realm. With these Three Covenants in balance, the Empire flourishes and the Emperor himself truly beams with a divine aura and is able to work the particular dwimmery proper to a legitimate king at the head of a legitimate government of a prosperous nation.
That sounds reasonable to me. What is this „duwimeri“ you are talking about?

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Re: Debate (Conpeople vs Conpeople)

Post by elemtilas » 26 Mar 2015 23:08

gestaltist wrote:
elemtilas wrote: The Three Covenants of a legitimate government are: that the Emperor reigns only with the consent of his people; that the Emperor reigns in covenant with the Heavenly Father & the Law of Heaven and that the Emperor reigns in covenant with the constitutions of the realm. With these Three Covenants in balance, the Empire flourishes and the Emperor himself truly beams with a divine aura and is able to work the particular dwimmery proper to a legitimate king at the head of a legitimate government of a prosperous nation.
That sounds reasonable to me. What is this „duwimeri“ you are talking about?
Dwimmery? Tis one of the mysteries of life in the World. Kind of like how I always find I'm one stocking short on laundry day... I know the philosophers gab on about primal forces and states of equillibria and cosmically intertwined strings all of which seem to be mixed together into some kind of stew by the Creator with the end result that there are Things That Happen, and Things That May Be Made to Happen. Dwimmery is, according to them, one of the forces of nature that allows things to be Made to Happen. We Daine are pretty handy at manipulating dwimmery, though some are much stronger than others; Men are pretty hopeless without all wands and charms and smelly cauldrons of ick!

Frankly, philosophers are a usually a bunch of old white-beards in togas that like nothing more than to tuck in to a seven course dinner and argue about nothing the whole time! The best description I ever heard was this: If Gravity is the force that makes things fall down, then Dwimmery is the force that makes things fall up. And then seemingly disappear while they pass through an alternate dimension or two only to pop up through the table and end up right where they started again. Only upside down and rotated in a most curious fashion...

Like for example, I can sing to an ailing flower and have it hale and blooming in no time! The herbs and veg in our garden grow tall and healthy at my touch. I can take a broken arm and kind of nudge the broken bones back into place, strong as new! I think a proper emperor can do that sort of thing too. Plus there's the aura that surrounds him: my sisters think I'm nuts, but I'm sure I can see a faint nimbus round him, just like I can around a holy monk or one of the Elders, whenever they chance to grace us with their presence! Most especially during the Day of Cleansing is this nimbus strong, when certain afflicted people of the empire are brought before the emperor in the hopes that his touch may heal them. His aura is very strong on those days, and I've even seen him work cures that would make even the best of our Daine healers proud!

Do you not have those who can work magic in your land?

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