On a meaningless world

Discussions about constructed worlds, cultures and any topics related to constructed societies.
User avatar
gestaltist
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1811
Joined: 11 Feb 2015 11:23

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by gestaltist » 01 Aug 2015 08:24

Teddy wrote:
gestaltist wrote: I meant „purpose“ in the sense of an „internal governing principle“. Why do we like sex so much? Why do we fight for resources and try to achieve the highest status possible? Because we have inbuilt imperatives supposed to help us further our genes.

Also, „purpose“ doesn’t mean „destiny“.
"We" like it because it feels good.
And why does it feel good?
I don't think even this is true anyway, plenty of people hate sex and throw away their resources. There's nothing 'built in them' that drives them to further their genes, but they're definitely living.
Well, we are not amoebae. Nothing is ever simple with humans. I think to discuss further I need to know whether you believe in evolution or not.

User avatar
Ear of the Sphinx
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1969
Joined: 23 Aug 2010 01:41
Location: Nose of the Sun

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by Ear of the Sphinx » 01 Aug 2015 16:34

I think to discuss further I need to know whether you believe in evolution or not.
Of course I believe in Evolution. I pray to Evolution every morning…
Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

User avatar
gestaltist
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1811
Joined: 11 Feb 2015 11:23

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by gestaltist » 01 Aug 2015 17:02

Ear of the Sphinx wrote:
I think to discuss further I need to know whether you believe in evolution or not.
Of course I believe in Evolution. I pray to Evolution every morning…
This is no way to have a reasonable conversation, Sphinx.

Also, as Salmoneus said, this discussion is pointless anyway since we don’t have a common understanding of the key concepts being discussed. I’m out of here.

thetha
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1961
Joined: 29 Apr 2011 01:43

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by thetha » 01 Aug 2015 17:26

gestaltist wrote: Well, we are not amoebae. Nothing is ever simple with humans. I think to discuss further I need to know whether you believe in evolution or not.
Amoebas can be pretty complicated depending on how you look at it. I'm not really sure what you mean by "nothing is ever simple with humans" -- humans are not the only kind of lifeforms who occasionally choose not to reproduce.

I believe there is a tendency for the genetic makeup of organisms to change over time if that is what you are asking.
gestaltist wrote:Also, as Salmoneus said, this discussion is pointless anyway since we don’t have a common understanding of the key concepts being discussed. I’m out of here.
but... you said right here:
gestaltist wrote: I meant „purpose“ in the sense of an „internal governing principle“.
I had the understanding that that was what we were talking about. Have you thrown out this idea?

User avatar
Ear of the Sphinx
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1969
Joined: 23 Aug 2010 01:41
Location: Nose of the Sun

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by Ear of the Sphinx » 01 Aug 2015 18:24

gestaltist wrote:
Ear of the Sphinx wrote:
I think to discuss further I need to know whether you believe in evolution or not.
Of course I believe in Evolution. I pray to Evolution every morning…
This is no way to have a reasonable conversation, Sphinx.
I agree. But you asked a nonsensical question, so I just followed suit.
Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

User avatar
Ahzoh
korean
korean
Posts: 5785
Joined: 20 Oct 2013 02:57
Location: Canada

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by Ahzoh » 01 Aug 2015 18:34

Ear of the Sphinx wrote:
gestaltist wrote:
Ear of the Sphinx wrote:
I think to discuss further I need to know whether you believe in evolution or not.
Of course I believe in Evolution. I pray to Evolution every morning…
This is no way to have a reasonable conversation, Sphinx.
I agree. But you asked a nonsensical question, so I just followed suit.
It is hardly a nonsensical question. When someone asks you "do you believe in" and does not involve deities, it is to be understood that it means "do you accept this as true".
There are people who don't.
Image Ӯсцьӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image Śāt Wērxālu (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]

User avatar
Foolster41
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 167
Joined: 11 Aug 2012 07:45
Location: pacific Northwest, USA
Contact:

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by Foolster41 » 02 Aug 2015 02:33

Hopefully this isn't a hijack (or maybe it's a good thing?), but what this made me think of was my own con-culture of Saltha, and the problem I've been seeing for a while and the reason I basically abandoned it, is too much focus on a few themes.

I'm not really sure where I went wrong. I wanted to have a sweeping, changing history of different periods, from nomadic peoples to city states to a united monarchy to a nation who underwent revolution to overthrow a terribly sadistic king and stop an unpopular war. I took different ideas, building on them.

Early on I decided they have a strong ideal of purity, particularly in their religion. I thought the Japanese bathing custom of rinse than soak fit in with that. I thought the idea of them giving corperal punishment to children 1/month, assuming they did stuff they got away with as a sort of "just in case" made sense too.

I was writing a story where some humans come to visit, and most of the situations involved conflict with the monthly punishment or difference in nudity taboo (e.g. mixed sex bathing).

I guess in short, I don't know where to go next.

HoskhMatriarch
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1575
Joined: 16 May 2015 18:48

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by HoskhMatriarch » 02 Aug 2015 03:56

Foolster41 wrote: I was writing a story where some humans come to visit, and most of the situations involved conflict with... difference in nudity taboo (e.g. mixed sex bathing).
You mean like in Europe? Earth cultures have a lot of variance. You need to be more specific with "humans"...
Foolster41 wrote: I guess in short, I don't know where to go next.
Think about what you find interesting in your world and write a personal account of that. Not even all stories have to be long. You have a whole world, so don't tell me you can't find one interesting thing in one person's life in the history of that whole world to write about.
No darkness can harm you if you are guided by your own inner light

User avatar
Egerius
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2388
Joined: 12 Sep 2013 21:29
Location: Not Rodentèrra
Contact:

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by Egerius » 02 Aug 2015 12:52

Foolster41 wrote:I was writing a story where some humans come to visit, and most of the situations involved conflict with... difference in nudity taboo (e.g. mixed sex bathing).
Cool. Definitely worth to give it a try.
HoskhMatriarch wrote:You mean like in Europe? Earth cultures have a lot of variance. You need to be more specific with "humans"...
We might agree on the point. But usually, when someone writes "humans", he/she means "a typical, self-destructing pack of individuals in my country".
Foolster41 wrote:I guess in short, I don't know where to go next.
There must be some forms of faux-pas in your conculture. Let the visitors do those and see how things turn out!
Something like "10 Ways to make a Clown out of yourself in Saltha - Europe edition".

As for me, I'm writing a visitor's guide for Buonavalle - valid for three eras.
Spoiler:
It will be similar to what Zompist wrote.

Furries may visit Buonavalle (or, Rodentèrra in general) in their fur-suits and won't ever need to take them off in public.[/size]
Last edited by Egerius on 03 Aug 2015 10:55, edited 2 times in total.
Languages of Rodentèrra: Buonavallese, Saselvan Argemontese; Wīlandisċ Taulkeisch; More on the road.
Conlang embryo of TELES: Proto-Avesto-Umbric ~> Proto-Umbric
New blog: http://argentiusbonavalensis.tumblr.com

User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 3513
Joined: 22 Nov 2014 04:48

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by elemtilas » 02 Aug 2015 17:20

[tick]
Foolster41 wrote:I was writing a story where some humans come to visit, and most of the situations involved conflict with the monthly punishment or difference in nudity taboo (e.g. mixed sex bathing).

I guess in short, I don't know where to go next.
If perhaps some of the fair folk came to visit in the Westmarche (a country of Daine in the Eastlands of the World), I might suggest that, after they have entertained their guests in the bath house that, rather than mess about with towels and so forth, just head on out to the gardens outside the bath house and let everyone dry off in the warmth of the Sun. Daine as a rule wear very little clothing -- a raka, a kind of tinted or decorated cloth wrapped around the waist generally does for everyone -- and so getting dressed after the bath and after preening each others' feathers is no complicated affair. After getting dressed, I'd suggest perhaps visiting the house of maranderi -- here folks can choose a nice mendika design and have it expertly applied to the body. Perhaps a nice vine of leaurallayeiu on your right arm? Or a sunburst on your left breast? Or perhaps just some wave-patterns running up your left forearm? We'll try to keep it simple -- it is entirely possible for a Daine to while away many hours in the house of maranderi! Anyway, I'm sure our fair folk guests will be hungry, so now that all are beautifully arrayed and decorated; perhaps we should consider something to eat? We'll head over to our host family's manse and take our nuncheon there -- today we'll sample a lovely oliphant barbecue, meat smoked for seventy-two hours and rubbed with just the right combination of sweet and spicy -- nnmang! Yummy, as the Daine say! The barbecue meat will be wrapped up in a flat bread and served with a kind of salted chips made from various tubers. This will be followed by a salad of greens straight from the garden, garnished with a kind of peppery-flavoured flower petal. And that followed by a honey and cream cheese confection for afters. Nuncheon is a rather light meal, but we'll eat rather more later when the shinanntannima, the story crafter, begins her work. I understand the experience will be spectacular! But first, perhaps we could rest a bit in the shade of the garden? Here as the Sun rides high and begins her downward course is a good time for talk, our guests can tell us stories and news from far countries and the lands they have passed through; we can tell them about the doings and goings here in Westmarche. After a while we might take a nap and wake refreshed -- for we shall be awake well into the early morning hours under the wheeling stars when once the shinanntannima begins to weave her enchantments over everyone!

Now we'll gather up a couple rugs and our basket of snacks and cutlery kits and go down to a hollow dell just outside town and find a spot to sit on the gentle grassy slope. As other folks gather, we can see them setting out their blankets and hides and rugs and baskets; and the kids will be running all over the place; and young, er, "friends" will be making eyes at each other. Soon enough, though, the storytelling begins... First up is a bit of a rare treat for our guests: a board singer. Although Daine have long known how to write with inks on vellum and rice paper, it is a particular invention of folk in this region to write by carving syllabics into planks of wood. The signs look a lot like the vine and leaf patterns tinted onto our arms by the maranderi girls. The board singer brings her basket of singing boards down to the place where the story tellers will sit and arranged them before her in the correct order. She closes her eyes and the crowd hushes -- she picks up the first plank and caresses it with her fingers, tells the story written upon it. Ah, a history of ancient days -- a story of Enca and Nico! The first Daine to cross the Canash river and settle near the lands of the fair folk! Always a crowd pleaser, those two! Her story done, another fellow takes her place. He tells a story of the Great War to the accompaniment of a harp. Some of the older folks around us recall those dark days and they eagerly listen to the retellings of ancient valour; and we can see not a few elbows prodding the sides of neighbours with a quiet "oo, in that battle yester-I fights; how well it now-I recalls!"

But the Sun bids her last farewell to the shining stars and now comes the principal story teller of the night, and long will be her work ere we all go home! A tiny girl sits down upon the rug placed on the grass for the storytellers to sit -- the weight of many centuries rest upon her shoulders, yet she appears no older than a young girl in her thirtieth year. Ah, I see she's wearing a plain yellow robe draped over her left shoulder and this means she is a monk, and monks it is said may live for many lifetimes of Daine...there is no knowing how many ages of the world she may have walked these lands! Her gift is that of enchantment -- and if there were any Men among us, we should be worried on their account because the gift of enchantment is perilous for them to experience. Their minds are so easily led astray! But the fair folk are well prepared for this kind of story and perhaps have travelled hither simply to experience this one night of endless story. She begins the fantasy ...

And before we know what has happened, she has cast her net over us all and has enthralled us within the very essence of narrativity. No one can withstand this kind of magic, unless he be truly deaf, for her voice is music and her words are power!

And then we awake as if from an agelong dream! And yet we know that we have not slept since our nap yesternoon. The Sun's first light blushes the eastern sky behind us; a curious kind of cold mist is breaking up and drifting away; the enchantress is nowhere to be found. But everyone is happy to have experienced her spell! How many lives did we live and adventures did we undergo; and how many lands both wonderful and awesome did we travel through; and did we not leave this world and travel to other worlds beyond the confines of Sky and Overheaven? Everyone who heard the story knows deep in their bones that they were truly there, living those lives, travelling to those other worlds; and yet we also know that where we were in all those ages was the land of story and the us that went into those lands was another us, an inner us; for her words are power and the visions that she conjured and placed before our eyes have entered them and become part of that inner us. I suppose this is why such stories are not meant for Men; perhaps they can not comprehend that distinction and become confused. But anyway! Our guests seem satisfied with the experience; and now let us get home again to the house of our host family and find out what we have to break our fast; for all that adventuring in other worlds is surely hungry work!

So... tell us what happens in Saltha after we take our bath!...
Last edited by elemtilas on 07 Dec 2015 01:18, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Foolster41
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 167
Joined: 11 Aug 2012 07:45
Location: pacific Northwest, USA
Contact:

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by Foolster41 » 03 Aug 2015 00:47

HoskhMatriarch wrote: You mean like in Europe? Earth cultures have a lot of variance. You need to be more specific with "humans"....
They are from a europe-ish nation neighboring to the west. They have a strong emphasis on knights and honor. I havn't really fleshed much more than that, since I wanted to focus on Saltha. There is another human nation, called the Trahernians, who are also a europe-ish nation, and former allies of Saltha during the great war. They are more focused on technology (steam tanks etc.) and more brutal, like what Saltha used to be, and thus Saltha and Trahern are no longer BFFs.) (I had some stuff in terms of units and ability cards for each of these cultures, since they were originally for a sort of CCG/miniatures game hybrid that will likely never see the light of day)
elemtilas wrote:So... tell us what happens in Saltha after we take our bath!...
Good prompt!

After getting out of the bath, instead of drying off with a towel, usually Salthans will go to the olrelkesh (sun room), an alcove with no roof and rows of mats to lie on to dry off. The wall is low and slanted to allow the maximum amount of time in the sun.

Salthans also commonly visited the gidaskesh (sanctification room). This room has benches along the sides and a rack with switches and short straps of leather, used in self-punishment.

After leaving the bath house they may go to a restaurant for dinner. Salthan cuisine is generally served "family style" in larger groups. Food is all stuff that is eaten with the hands, Salthans in general do no use utensils. A popular dish is a bread stuffed with meat, usually fish, particularly on the coastal regions. They also serve sticks of fried vegetables and meat (comparable to beef or chicken) wrapped in grape leaves with oils and spices.

Then after eating they could go to the local theater for historical dramas or comedies. Or they might attend a Sanagisany, which is a sort of comedy musical performance where the audience is encouraged to join in on choruses. They could go to a dance, called a Asausa, a form of dance where everyone dances together (though also may break temporarily into pairs of partners). The dance has emphasis on hand motions (since Salthans with their tails are not really graceful with the lower half of their body).
Egerius wrote: As for me, I'm writing a visitor's guide for Buonavalle - valid for three eras.
Spoiler:
It will be similar to what Zompist wrote.

I've revised my visitor's guide, though needs work.

Egerius wrote: There must be some forms of faux-pas in your conculture. Let the visitors do those and see how things turn out!
Something like "10 Ways to make a Clown out of yourself in Saltha - Europe edition".

I guess that's my problem, is I'm not sure where they'd go. I've tried looking up examples of stories and havn't really had much success finding things that felt like they fit in, or sparked an idea.

User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 3513
Joined: 22 Nov 2014 04:48

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by elemtilas » 03 Aug 2015 01:15

Foolster41 wrote:
elemtilas wrote:So... tell us what happens in Saltha after we take our bath!...
Also, obviously the folks you describe below are not humans (and possibly not humanoid either...) -- can you describe them for me? I see that they have tails... Were all these other Europeanish countries with their knights in shining landironclads of the same race, or a different one?

Daine have wings but no tails -- different issues while dancing! As well as bathing...
After getting out of the bath, instead of drying off with a towel, usually Salthans will go to the olrelkesh (sun room), an alcove with no roof and rows of mats to lie on to dry off. The wall is low and slanted to allow the maximum amount of time in the sun.
You mention earlier that at least some visiting humans might have issues with public nudity, commingled bathing, etc. It would appear from this description that Salthans, while not adverse to public nudity, at least keep bathing nudity behind walls. What are their practices in this regard? What kinds of clothing will they put on before heading out to the restaurant? How much is enough or not enough? If they aren't humanoid -- what do they have to hide, and why?
Salthans also commonly visited the gidaskesh (sanctification room). This room has benches along the sides and a rack with switches and short straps of leather, used in self-punishment.
This would cèrtainly cause some comment among any Daine, if they were able to visit Saltha! They would find it a very strange practice indeed! What is the reasoning behind it? Is there some sort of great cultural sin they are atoning for, perhaps now long forgotten?
After leaving the bath house they may go to a restaurant for dinner. Salthan cuisine is generally served "family style" in larger groups. Food is all stuff that is eaten with the hands, Salthans in general do no use utensils.
This is typical of large eateries in just about any place in The World, apart from the lack of utensils. Daine always carry a cutlery kit with them when travelling: it consists of a small wooden case with a pair of chopsticks, a long knife (for slicing), a short knife (for smaller cutting or spreading), a spoon and a kind of jabbing fork, not unlike our pickle forks. Usually it will be wrapped in a cloth envelope that they use, not so much as a napkin but as a small spread like a placemat. Oh, napkins? That's why God gave you forearms and trouser legs! [xD] Many kinds of food are indeed eaten with fingers -- the wraps I described will certainly be. The chips, probably will be eaten with the chopsticks.
then after eating they could go to the local theater for historical dramas or comedies. Or they might attend a Sanagisany, which is a sort of comedy musical performance where the audience is encouraged to join in on choruses. They could go to a dance, called a Asausa, a form of dance where everyone dances together (though also may break temporarily into pairs of partners). The dance has emphasis on hand motions (since Salthans with their tails are not really graceful with the lower half of their body).
Daine have no concept of theatre, so would find these entertainments kind of odd. Daine of Auntimoany have come to appreciate opera, however. But that's mostly because of the music and story telling aspects of the art. They do like to dance, and their dancing is mostly communal, not unlike old time dancing *here* in the US. Only with a lot more feathers! And the music sounds all different. And no one's wearing any shoes. But other than that, yeah, very much like an old time house dance. Even the instruments aren't too far different: a fiddle, possibly a couple zithers, a frame drum or two, maybe a whistle or small organ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cs2j8f7H2WY

Salthans would not like this kind of dancing, though -- too much complex footwork!

User avatar
Foolster41
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 167
Joined: 11 Aug 2012 07:45
Location: pacific Northwest, USA
Contact:

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by Foolster41 » 03 Aug 2015 02:33

elemtilas wrote:Also, obviously the folks you describe below are not humans (and possibly not humanoid either...) -- can you describe them for me? I see that they have tails... Were all these other Europeanish countries with their knights in shining landironclads of the same race, or a different one?
Salthans are lizard-folk, they are maybe a litle shorter in average than a human with scaley green or red skin. They have "snouts", which are longer on males. Males, starting around puberty have a row of spikes from the front top of their head to the back. Females, lacking breasts are flat-chested.
elemtilas wrote:Also, obviously the folks you describe below are not humans (and possibly not humanoid either...) -- can you describe them for me? I see that they have tails... Were all these other Europeanish countries with their knights in shining landironclads of the same race, or a different one?
If you mean are Braydonians and Trahernians distant reletives? It's very possible, though both deny it heavily.
elemtilas wrote:You mention earlier that at least some visiting humans might have issues with public nudity, commingled bathing, etc. It would appear from this description that Salthans, while not adverse to public nudity, at least keep bathing nudity behind walls. What are their practices in this regard? What kinds of clothing will they put on before heading out to the restaurant? How much is enough or not enough?
It is perhaps somewhat of a cultural oddity that they would be shocked at the sight of a nude adult in public, but think nothing of adults of both sexes being togethr in a bath house.

Salthans adults tend to wear a loin-cloth like undergarment called an Aki (they don't worry too much about covering their bottoms because the tail does that already), a long-sleeved shirt (a!nok) and a longer sleeveless robe (Hoshu) over that.

An image here: http://dikaesha.pbworks.com/w/file/3527 ... othing.jpg

It is socially acceptable for males to wear just the undergarment while doing strenious work. It's not seen as acceptable for women to do hard labor (though in rare cases where it's unavoidable of course it will be abided). Children (under 10) when doing chores or school wear just an undergarment, but when playing prefer (and is acceptable) to be completely nude. After 10, they are expected to cover up all the time.
elemtilas wrote:If they aren't humanoid -- what do they have to hide, and why?
If you mean, genetils, Salthan genetils are much like human ones. Males have penises and testicles (and despite rumors, Salthans do not have hemi-penis). Females have vaginas.
elemtilas wrote:This would certainly cause some comment among any Daine, if they were able to visit Saltha! They would find it a very strange practice indeed! What is the reasoning behind it? Is there some sort of great cultural sin they are atoning for, perhaps now long forgotten?
It's more they see the inner purification as part of the outer purification. Usually this is never very severe (a couple strokes) it's said it's good for the scales after a bath.

((I seem to remember this being an after-bathing custom somewhere, I thought Rome, but I can't find it anywhere))

Edit: and the straps thing feels like a bit much, I think just switches.

Daine should visit Saltha sometime. :) Contact me, and we can set up an RP, maybe come up with ideas for why she's there.

At any rate, I don't want to monopolize this thread too much, but as I said, the comment about being an overly focused conworld made me think of my own. Maybe I need to create a new thread and try to actually work on this con-world more.

Thanks for the prompts, at the very least that sun-room thing was added.

User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 3513
Joined: 22 Nov 2014 04:48

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by elemtilas » 03 Aug 2015 04:54

Foolster41 wrote:
elemtilas wrote:Also, obviously the folks you describe below are not humans (and possibly not humanoid either...) -- can you describe them for me? I see that they have tails... Were all these other Europeanish countries with their knights in shining landironclads of the same race, or a different one?
If you mean are Braydonians and Trahernians distant reletives? It's very possible, though both deny it heavily.
Yes -- how do they fit into the grand scheme of things?
It is perhaps somewhat of a cultural oddity that they would be shocked at the sight of a nude adult in public, but think nothing of adults of both sexes being togethr in a bath house.
I guess everything in its proper place!
Salthans adults tend to wear a loin-cloth like undergarment called an Aki (they don't worry too much about covering their bottoms because the tail does that already), a long-sleeved shirt (a!nok) and a longer sleeveless robe (Hoshu) over that.

An image here: http://dikaesha.pbworks.com/w/file/3527 ... othing.jpg

It is socially acceptable for males to wear just the undergarment while doing strenious work. It's not seen as acceptable for women to do hard labor (though in rare cases where it's unavoidable of course it will be abided). Children (under 10) when doing chores or school wear just an undergarment, but when playing prefer (and is acceptable) to be completely nude. After 10, they are expected to cover up all the time.
Thanks for the description! There are a couple pictures of Daine here, so you can get an idea: http://www.frathwiki.com/Daine. And some in Chorography, along with other folks. Daine can't wear shirts, so that's out. While it's not "unacceptable" for an adult to be entirely naked, it is rather unusual. Most Daine will wear sòme article of clothing. There are times when it's expected: obviously, they must take off their clothing and decorations to take a bath; and generally will do so when sleeping; some will in battle; many will when competing in certain sports (running, wrestling, etc; but not archery or pitching). In some cultures nudity is expected of guests at a wedding ceremony others at a funeral.
It's more they see the inner purification as part of the outer purification. Usually this is never very severe (a couple strokes) it's said it's good for the scales after a bath.
[O.O]
Daine should visit Saltha sometime. :) Contact me, and we can set up an RP, maybe come up with ideas for why she's there.
You could also send a Salthan over to the Multiverse Inn, viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4599. That's a good way to hash out such interactions, too.
At any rate, I don't want to monopolize this thread too much, but as I said, the comment about being an overly focused conworld made me think of my own. Maybe I need to create a new thread and try to actually work on this con-world more.
Yes, a very good suggestion! The more worlds being worked on and talked about around here the better!

Curlyjimsam
sinic
sinic
Posts: 256
Joined: 01 Sep 2010 15:31
Location: UK

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by Curlyjimsam » 03 Aug 2015 15:31

cntrational wrote:The world is filled with many things. We have far right capitalists like Ayn Rand to far left revolutionaries like Karl Marx, we have advocates for transhumanism, we have advocates for pastorialism, we've fought wars, we've invented medicine, we kill animals, we save animals, we fly to space, we explore the ocean, we create operatic sonatas, we create slangy rap, we create uplifting stories, we create stories of misery, we have cultures of pacifism and peace, we have cultures extolling war and conquest, we've lived in deserts, beaches, jungles, mountains, cities, villages, and even in space.
Nothing about having a teleologically-ordered world makes any of those things impossible. Indeed, there are all sorts of possible teleologies you could have which would still be compatible with these things.
And leaving philosophy and opinion aside, there's a practical point to making your conworlds meaningless. If your entire world is too focused on one particular type of story or theme, then it becomes difficult to use when telling a story that doesn't fit your world's mould.
On the other hand if you want your world for the purpose of telling a single sort of story, then it makes sense to build it around that sort of story.
Twitter: @jsbaker750
Website: seven-fifty.net

User avatar
Ahzoh
korean
korean
Posts: 5785
Joined: 20 Oct 2013 02:57
Location: Canada

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by Ahzoh » 03 Aug 2015 19:31

Curlyjimsam wrote:
And leaving philosophy and opinion aside, there's a practical point to making your conworlds meaningless. If your entire world is too focused on one particular type of story or theme, then it becomes difficult to use when telling a story that doesn't fit your world's mould.
On the other hand if you want your world for the purpose of telling a single sort of story, then it makes sense to build it around that sort of story.
Entirely why I started conlanging.
Image Ӯсцьӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image Śāt Wērxālu (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]

User avatar
Sew'Kyetuh
hieroglyphic
hieroglyphic
Posts: 50
Joined: 08 Aug 2015 00:08

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by Sew'Kyetuh » 08 Aug 2015 07:01

I was looking all over these forums for an introductory location to make a first post and couldn't find anything, so here I am to pop a question in:

What is a "focused" conworld?

I've been conworlding for two decades now, but I only just recently found the term (through conlang) and now I'm discovering this entire cultural interest of people creating this sort of thing which is kind of awesome. So no, I'm not new at it, but yes I am very new to the terms, ideas, and study. I was invited here by a member whose username I don't know yet (he found me on one of the conlang Facebook groups).

User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 3513
Joined: 22 Nov 2014 04:48

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by elemtilas » 08 Aug 2015 19:34

Sew'Kyetuh wrote:I was looking all over these forums for an introductory location to make a first post and couldn't find anything, so here I am to pop a question in:

What is a "focused" conworld?

I've been conworlding for two decades now, but I only just recently found the term (through conlang) and now I'm discovering this entire cultural interest of people creating this sort of thing which is kind of awesome. So no, I'm not new at it, but yes I am very new to the terms, ideas, and study. I was invited here by a member whose username I don't know yet (he found me on one of the conlang Facebook groups).
I've never heard the term before, and I've been at this at least thirty to thirty-five years. I can actually find only one reference to this as a term:

http://www.incatena.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=39404

I can't find the term being used on Conlang anywhere. Could you provide a link? Without knowing the context, it would be next to impossible to sort out how that person was intending the term to be understood. As for terminology: you'll find that these related arts, glossopoesy & geopoesy are definitely jargonridden and we like to come up with names for things on a regular basis. I guess this should come as no surprise from people who think nothing at all of not only coming up with names for things but also whole new languages to devise those names in!

I would hazard the guess that this refers to people who create otherwords for specific purposes: for the purpose of writing a novel, for the purpose of making a video game, for the purpose of a screenplay. I get the sense it is a "goal oriented" endeavour and probably one filled with deadlines and a whole lot of very strange purposeful activity. Alternatively, I think it could also mean that the geopoet has chosen a single aspect, a single country, a single era within History as his primary focus. In this regard, I would call Tolkien's work "focused", since almost every word he ever wrote in some way is the history that leads up to the moment of the Ring's destruction. As far as I know, he never tells us stories about Harad or the far East or anything that isn't in some way connected to that one theme.

I definitely have no goal oriented purpose in mind (books, games, commercial enterprise) when I do this, so I don't consider myself "focused" in that way. Geopoesy is simply an expression of what I see & experience in my mind and heart. I guess in a way that could be seen as "focused" but it is a very broad focus indeed. After all, I have been what gestaltist has called a "monogamous" geopoet, having really only laboured at one work over the course of very many years. Though I have done some small side projects as well.

In any event, there is no one place for newcomers to make their presence known. You did as good as could be done, and asked a terribly deep question to boot! So, welcome, etc. And now get busy telling us about your own work! You say you've been at this for more than twenty minutes, so I suspect you must have quite a lot to say about your world!

User avatar
Ahzoh
korean
korean
Posts: 5785
Joined: 20 Oct 2013 02:57
Location: Canada

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by Ahzoh » 08 Aug 2015 19:50

Eremtiras, it was mentioned on the first page of this thread and the entire talking point of the OP...
Image Ӯсцьӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image Śāt Wērxālu (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]

User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 3513
Joined: 22 Nov 2014 04:48

Re: On a meaningless world

Post by elemtilas » 08 Aug 2015 20:18

Ahzoh wrote:Elemtilas, it was mentioned on the first page of this thread and the entire talking point of the OP...
Thank you for the pointer, but I wasn't really responding to cntrational (the OP of this thread) and the whole theme of conworlds being without meaning or purpose; but rather to Sew'Kyetuh. cntrational mentioned the word "focused" in the original post, but not the term "focused conworld". That came later, and even there, I am not entirely certain what he means by it, because he doesn't define it. cntrational said: "If your entire world is too focused on one particular type of story or theme, then it becomes difficult to use when telling a story that doesn't fit your world's mould." Later he does say "I think focused conworlds can work, but have to be written well." I am still not certain precisely what he means by the term or what it has to do with meaning and purpose. I am not even convinced that he intended this to be any kind of term with a particular meaning. It could simply be the juxtaposition of adjective and noun without any deeper significance.

Sew'Kyetuh said: "I only just recently found the term (through conlang)". I could be very wrong, but I didn't think the two instances are connected.

Post Reply