(C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

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Keenir
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Keenir » 13 Nov 2014 06:31

Ahzoh wrote:
Keenir wrote: so...they don't really need to laquer it...if nobody else is going to know how well/poorly one's dead were painted...(you could say that Western funerary practice is to paint the bodies of the dead so they look like they're just sleeping). yes? no?

"need" may not be the right word, where the Vrkhazh are concerned, however.
Why wouldn't they lacquer it? The lacquering is to preserve the body so it doesnt get all rotten before the family members finish painting it...
The painting is not meant to show off to others how well you painted, but to express your love for that dearly departed, it is more of thing hetween the family and friends...
pretty sure mortuaries don't lacquer corpses they're going to bury, even if it is an open-casket viewing.
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ahzoh » 13 Nov 2014 13:10

Keenir wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:
Keenir wrote: so...they don't really need to laquer it...if nobody else is going to know how well/poorly one's dead were painted...(you could say that Western funerary practice is to paint the bodies of the dead so they look like they're just sleeping). yes? no?

"need" may not be the right word, where the Vrkhazh are concerned, however.
Why wouldn't they lacquer it? The lacquering is to preserve the body so it doesnt get all rotten before the family members finish painting it...
The painting is not meant to show off to others how well you painted, but to express your love for that dearly departed, it is more of thing hetween the family and friends...
pretty sure mortuaries don't lacquer corpses they're going to bury, even if it is an open-casket viewing.
Then why did Lambuzhao suggest lacquering, shelaccing, etc. for preserving in first place, now that you tell me it is useless information?
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lao Kou » 13 Nov 2014 14:04

Ahzoh wrote:Then why did Lambuzhao suggest lacquering, shelaccing, etc. for preserving in first place, now that you tell me it is useless information?
Egerius wrote:your con people might first paint their deceased with natural colors first and then seal them with translucent wax or something prior to dropping/depositing/burying them in the desert.
Lambuzhao wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:What do you think of the idea of relatives painting the body of the deceased?
It would make a lil more sense if they preserved the body of the deceased by painting it with colored unguents, pastes of preserving salts that reacted with the flesh to make certain colors or hues, and then finished with some kind of perfumed oil or gum or lacquer that, over time, reacted with the former substances to create maybe metallic/iridescent sheens on the flesh of the deceased, and a kind of preserving final coating.
Lambuzhao wrote:I imagine the final varnishing/shellacking would take about an hour.
(emphases mine)

I believe the point is, like staining your back porch or doing your nails, you apply the color first, then apply a sealant (aka lacquer, shellac, wax) to keep the color in and the elements out. If preserving the remains after burial is a non-issue, perhaps that's a step you can forego. Washing and painting can probably be done reasonably before things get a little ... aromatic. (A day or two? Though I'm not a mortician, and all bets are off in the desert.) If you have to wait for all the relatives to come in from out of town and they actually have to see the body before interment, I would imagine some form of preservation would be necessary, or eyes won't be watering just out of grief. Otherwise, paint for closure, paint for a nice send-off, and then get that puppy in the ground ASAP. There won't be enough lilies to cover the odor (particularly in the desert).
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ahzoh » 13 Nov 2014 16:11

Only goes to show you how I miss things.

I don't know, preservation before painting might be necessary, because relatives might be in another city or town...
I just down want a discusting brown shrunken mummy like you see on the covers of National Geographic... I don't know if that is the effect of time or the effect of the preservation method.
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » 13 Nov 2014 22:39

eldin raigmore wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:They probably bury it in the desert...
What about the ones who live in the tropical rain-something?
Or even the ones in the semi-arid region (which is probably a grassland, I'm thinking?)?

In Papua New Guinea (a tropical area), deceased ancestors are mounted on chairs and positioned with sticks, and literally smoked (as in preserved with wood-smoke, aromatic or otherwise).
http://natgeotv.com/uk/lost-mummies-of-papua-new-guinea


Maybe Ahzoh, your tropical folks could do that?

Native American tribes did something similar, if I remember (though how reliable the sources are is another matter):
http://www.nanations.com/burialcustoms/mummies.htm

Just some more suggestions.
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » 13 Nov 2014 22:52

Lao Kou wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:Then why did Lambuzhao suggest lacquering, shelaccing, etc. for preserving in first place, now that you tell me it is useless information?
Egerius wrote:your con people might first paint their deceased with natural colors first and then seal them with translucent wax or something prior to dropping/depositing/burying them in the desert.
Lambuzhao wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:What do you think of the idea of relatives painting the body of the deceased?
It would make a lil more sense if they preserved the body of the deceased by painting it with colored unguents, pastes of preserving salts that reacted with the flesh to make certain colors or hues, and then finished with some kind of perfumed oil or gum or lacquer that, over time, reacted with the former substances to create maybe metallic/iridescent sheens on the flesh of the deceased, and a kind of preserving final coating.
Lambuzhao wrote:I imagine the final varnishing/shellacking would take about an hour.
(emphases mine)

I believe the point is, like staining your back porch or doing your nails, you apply the color first, then apply a sealant (aka lacquer, shellac, wax) to keep the color in and the elements out. If preserving the remains after burial is a non-issue, perhaps that's a step you can forego. Washing and painting can probably be done reasonably before things get a little ... aromatic. (A day or two? Though I'm not a mortician, and all bets are off in the desert.) If you have to wait for all the relatives to come in from out of town and they actually have to see the body before interment, I would imagine some form of preservation would be necessary, or eyes won't be watering just out of grief. Otherwise, paint for closure, paint for a nice send-off, and then get that puppy in the ground ASAP. There won't be enough lilies to cover the odor (particularly in the desert).
Indeed. I guess I conflated mortuary tattooing with quasi-mummification rituals. The lacquering would have been to preserve the metallic/iridescent etc. hues of the paints.

I did kind of understand what The Kou suggested upstairs, namely, that, for "the family" to partake in this kind of ritual (i.e. interment), the immediate family ought to wait a few days so that the whole gang can come in on Mihirung/Toriuma/Chocobo for the funeral. This goes in direct contrast with the prime directive of getting that cadaver 6 feet under/cremated/etc before adding its special post mortem bouquet to the general ambience.

The painting ritual could be done by one or a few relatives, take hours, and Shoop! into the tomb and over. But no luto no novenas... [:'(]


The painting/preserving ritual could be done by the close family, take days (or weeks) to do, with the view of allowing all the clan/tribe to come together for the final send-off.

But again, I assumed too much.

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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » 13 Nov 2014 22:54

Ahzoh wrote:Only goes to show you how I miss things.

I don't know, preservation before painting might be necessary, because relatives might be in another city or town...
I just down want a discusting brown shrunken mummy like you see on the covers of National Geographic... I don't know if that is the effect of time or the effect of the preservation method.
Maybe discusting to your sensibilities, but perhaps not discusting to the confolks'.

:?: :wat:

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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ahzoh » 13 Nov 2014 23:09

Lambuzhao wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:Only goes to show you how I miss things.

I don't know, preservation before painting might be necessary, because relatives might be in another city or town...
I just down want a disgusting brown shrunken mummy like you see on the covers of National Geographic... I don't know if that is the effect of time or the effect of the preservation method.
Maybe disgusting to your sensibilities, but perhaps not disgusting to the confolks'.

:?: :wat:
Fine, maybe they aren't disgusted by a shrunken corpse... this is, however, not how I had imagined the whole idea to be.
Immediate family? The mother, father, children and the grandparents will have to live at one of their children's house.
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Keenir » 14 Nov 2014 10:02

Ahzoh wrote:I don't know, preservation before painting might be necessary, because relatives might be in another city or town...
I just down want a discusting brown shrunken mummy like you see on the covers of National Geographic... I don't know if that is the effect of time or the effect of the preservation method.
ah, you're thinking of the Ancient Egyptian mummies (not of the deserts of China or South America)...where part of the aim wasn't just to preserve their dead...it was to replicate the look of naturally-dessicated bodies.

ps: NOT disgusting.
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ahzoh » 26 Nov 2014 10:02

The Vrkhazh believe that when you die that you are in an eternal rest; oblivion that is.
At least that is as it should be. However, sometimes a person was greatly wronged in life or their corpse becomes disturbed, causing the spirit to become restless and aggressive.
Restless and evil spirits reside in a realm that is called by the Vrkhazh as "The Formless World" because of its formless and chaotic nature. Creatures known as the "Formless Beings" (not really formless, but their forms are often incomprehensible and fear-inducing) also reside in the Formless World. The most feared and well-known is the Formless Being known as Sillhav (who is considered the top dog of them all) who guards the veil between the Formless World and the Formed World.

The Vrkhazh believe that scavenging birds such as ravens and crows (ravens and actual crows are often lumped together as being a kind of "crow") are guardians of the dead that ensure that the spirits are not restless.
The Vrkhazh believe that if a crow is not guarding a body (or a flock of crows, in the case of entire graveyards) then the body and raise up and become a Hollow Man (a Vrkhazhian equivalent to a zombie, "hollow" because it is without sentience).
Times of famine and disease are times where the risk of Hollow Men rising up are the highest.

Often family members will fashion a small statue of a crow to make the spirit of a deceased love one to attain peace by tricking it into believing it is guarded by a real one. Usually the statues are made of onyx with the eyes being studded with turquoise.
Embalming and painting the body is also important in allowing the deceased to attain peace. Organs cannot be removed from the body except for the intestines (which are removed by the embalmer and replaced with preservatives before returning it to the family). This important because the deceased cannot feel like they are not whole. This is the original sense of the meaning of a Hollow Man, who would be literally hollow.

There are four days during the year where the veil between the Formless World and Formed World are thin. These days are the peaks of the Summer Solstice and the Winter Solstice and the Spring Equinox and the Autumn Equinox. Thus these periods are often marked with fear because Formless Beings and evil spirits can gain access to the Formed World to wreak havoc and cause suffering. Because Silhav is the Guardian of the Veil, he is the first one to appear.

Fighting Sillhav is fruitless because he is unaffected by most physicals objects, however the only one known to have been able to successfully defeat Sillhav is the first emperor of Vrkhazh, Arash-Hijunu.
What do you think of this?

Also, I'm looking for ideas of the gemstones onyx and turquoise be associated with in the context of the Vrkhazhian belief about death. Other associated meanings is that turquoise symbolized purity and cleanliness and onyx symbolizes strength (physical, mental and spiritual) and spiritual and mental power.
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by qwed117 » 28 Nov 2014 19:12

Ahzoh wrote:
The Vrkhazh believe that when you die that you are in an eternal rest; oblivion that is.
At least that is as it should be. However, sometimes a person was greatly wronged in life or their corpse becomes disturbed, causing the spirit to become restless and aggressive.
Restless and evil spirits reside in a realm that is called by the Vrkhazh as "The Formless World" because of its formless and chaotic nature. Creatures known as the "Formless Beings" (not really formless, but their forms are often incomprehensible and fear-inducing) also reside in the Formless World. The most feared and well-known is the Formless Being known as Sillhav (who is considered the top dog of them all) who guards the veil between the Formless World and the Formed World.

The Vrkhazh believe that scavenging birds such as ravens and crows (ravens and actual crows are often lumped together as being a kind of "crow") are guardians of the dead that ensure that the spirits are not restless.
The Vrkhazh believe that if a crow is not guarding a body (or a flock of crows, in the case of entire graveyards) then the body and raise up and become a Hollow Man (a Vrkhazhian equivalent to a zombie, "hollow" because it is without sentience).
Times of famine and disease are times where the risk of Hollow Men rising up are the highest.

Often family members will fashion a small statue of a crow to make the spirit of a deceased love one to attain peace by tricking it into believing it is guarded by a real one. Usually the statues are made of onyx with the eyes being studded with turquoise.
Embalming and painting the body is also important in allowing the deceased to attain peace. Organs cannot be removed from the body except for the intestines (which are removed by the embalmer and replaced with preservatives before returning it to the family). This important because the deceased cannot feel like they are not whole. This is the original sense of the meaning of a Hollow Man, who would be literally hollow.

There are four days during the year where the veil between the Formless World and Formed World are thin. These days are the peaks of the Summer Solstice and the Winter Solstice and the Spring Equinox and the Autumn Equinox. Thus these periods are often marked with fear because Formless Beings and evil spirits can gain access to the Formed World to wreak havoc and cause suffering. Because Silhav is the Guardian of the Veil, he is the first one to appear.

Fighting Sillhav is fruitless because he is unaffected by most physicals objects, however the only one known to have been able to successfully defeat Sillhav is the first emperor of Vrkhazh, Arash-Hijunu.
What do you think of this?

Also, I'm looking for ideas of the gemstones onyx and turquoise be associated with in the context of the Vrkhazhian belief about death. Other associated meanings is that turquoise symbolized purity and cleanliness and onyx symbolizes strength (physical, mental and spiritual) and spiritual and mental power.

That sounds really cool tbh. The association with turquoise as purity and cleanliness is a tiny bit obvious. The gem would represent water with it's clear blue, and the cleanliness (and thus purity) one gets by bathing in the water. This may appear to be the IRVC should it have lived longer. The onyx could be because onyx is a strong mineral for war weapons. Maybe the turquoise should be placed on the body before leaving it in it's resting place above ground.
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » 13 Dec 2014 23:00

I know we have talked about "alternate earths" (no water, all tropical, flooded, desertic etc).

Well, I just found this map which is inverted regarding sea-level (and poles):

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/ima ... uo7png.png

http://i.imgur.com/Vqhux.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5086/5292 ... d91f_z.jpg

And just imagining how Coastal peoples would now have landmasses to populate and interact with peoples formerly separated by miles of ocean.

The Iroquois Nations would be sea-faring Islanders living on The Great Archipelago.

Eskimo/Aleut and Inuit folks might live more or less the same, but hunting herds of caribou and musk-oxen. Maybe they wound up herding them like the Lapplanders.

Cultural exchanges between Eastern Coastal Native American Cultures with Western Coastal African Cultures (whoa & wow)

Mediterranean Cultures jam-packed on an island roughly half the size of Australia.

Man, the mind just wanders, and wonders at the possibilities.

Another take would be, rewinding a few millions of years, where o where would the genus Homo have likely developed, if not 20,000 leagues below the African Sea?

The permutations! :mrgreen:



I haven't been this excited since I saw the maps of "Blue Venus":

http://www.futuretimeline.net/images/ve ... formed.jpg


http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/ ... 2os1eb.png

http://www.worlddreambank.org/V/VENUSMAP.GIF

http://iflorinsky.narod.ru/venus-z.jpg


And the moon Titan, well, I've always had a soft-spot for Titan. She just looks better and better all the time:

http://www.planetaryvisions.com/images_new/221.jpg

[<3]

...for some reason, though, terraformed Mars does not get me excited (?) I just prefer it as a red Arrakian/Tatooinian dust-bowl, I guess.

This is as close as I could tolerate for a "wet" Mars:

http://www.erbzine.com/mag39/barsoom72.jpg
:roll:

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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » 13 Dec 2014 23:06

[:'(]
And don't even get me started about how the Polynesians, Melanesians, Australian Coastal, and Inca/Aymara/Mapuche (etc) would all have a Tera-Tonne of room to muck about on the continent that once was the Pacific Ocean (Pacifica?).

...agayne, the mind just wonders... goes into full-on Super-Para-Über-Elsewhither-Alternate Risk/Sid Meiers mode. [:'(] (*joy*)

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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ahzoh » 13 Dec 2014 23:14

Lambuzhao wrote:I know we have talked about "alternate earths" (no water, all tropical, flooded, desertic etc).

Well, I just found this map which is inverted regarding sea-level (and poles):

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/ima ... uo7png.png

http://i.imgur.com/Vqhux.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5086/5292 ... d91f_z.jpg

And just imagining how Coastal peoples would now have landmasses to populate and interact with peoples formerly separated by miles of ocean.

The Iroquois Nations would be sea-faring Islanders living on The Great Archipelago.

Eskimo/Aleut and Inuit folks might live more or less the same, but hunting herds of caribou and musk-oxen. Maybe they wound up herding them like the Lapplanders.

Cultural exchanges between Eastern Coastal Native American Cultures with Western Coastal African Cultures (whoa & wow)

Mediterranean Cultures jam-packed on an island roughly half the size of Australia.

Man, the mind just wanders, and wonders at the possibilities.

Another take would be, rewinding a few millions of years, where o where would the genus Homo have likely developed, if not 20,000 leagues below the African Sea?

The permutations! :mrgreen:



I haven't been this excited since I saw the maps of "Blue Venus":

http://www.futuretimeline.net/images/ve ... formed.jpg


http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/ ... 2os1eb.png

http://www.worlddreambank.org/V/VENUSMAP.GIF

http://iflorinsky.narod.ru/venus-z.jpg


And the moon Titan, well, I've always had a soft-spot for Titan. She just looks better and better all the time:

http://www.planetaryvisions.com/images_new/221.jpg

[<3]

...for some reason, though, terraformed Mars does not get me excited (?) I just prefer it as a red Arrakian/Tatooinian dust-bowl, I guess.

This is as close as I could tolerate for a "wet" Mars:

http://www.erbzine.com/mag39/barsoom72.jpg
:roll:
Venus looks beautiful terraformed! [O.O]
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » 13 Dec 2014 23:20

Ain't it the truth?!

[O.O]

Image

What a splendid idea
This Venus looks fun
Why, I fully endorse it
Terraform it at once
:!:

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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by qwed117 » 14 Dec 2014 05:25

I hear that dude keeps putting furry entertainment there, though.
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by cntrational » 19 Dec 2014 04:03

How could I generate a map for a ringworld? A map that is thin vertically but long horizontally.

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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Ahzoh » 22 Dec 2014 05:49

Will these mountain ranges allow for BWh climate at the north and Af in the south, with a BSh intermediary?
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Buffaloman » 24 Dec 2014 05:36

I'm trying to make a world map for my conworld, and I fiddled around on AutoRealm for a little while before realizing how lost I really was. If you have made a map for your conworld, which program did you use?

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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 25 Dec 2014 09:03

I make my maps in Photoshop, but I can't pretend to be that good at it.
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