Language practice thread

What can I say? It doesn't fit above, put it here. Also the location of board rules/info.
User avatar
Lao Kou
korean
korean
Posts: 5665
Joined: 25 Nov 2012 10:39
Location: 蘇州/苏州

Re: Language practice thread

Post by Lao Kou » 02 May 2015 14:23

Egerius wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote:/u le lɛtʁə mɥɛtə ki tu dœ̃ ku nə sɔ̃ ply mɥɛtə kɑ̃‿tɔ̃ ʃɑ̃tə/
Perché non parlano i Francesi come qui? [:'(]
Why don't the French speak like that? [:'(]
Image

Plus jamais.
Nevermore.
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名

shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 11791
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: Language practice thread

Post by shimobaatar » 02 May 2015 20:39

mbrsart wrote:Porque tengo un recital el próximo mes. Quería cantar en el ruso, así que escogí unas dos canciones de Rajmaninov.
Because I have a recital next month. I wanted to sing in Russian, so I chose a couple of Rachmaninoff songs.
¡Buena suerte! [:D]
Good luck!
mbrsart wrote:
kilenc wrote:pero no sé si los mandatos proceden del subjuntivo por cierto
but i don't know if the commands come from the subjunctive for certain
Yo tampoco, pero sería interesante saberlo.
Me neither, but it would be interesting to know.
Estoy definitivamente de acuerdo. [+1]
I definitely agree.
Egerius wrote:
Dormouse559 wrote:/u le lɛtʁə mɥɛtə ki tu dœ̃ ku nə sɔ̃ ply mɥɛtə kɑ̃‿tɔ̃ ʃɑ̃tə/
Perché non parlano i Francesi come qui? [:'(]
Why don't the French speak like that? [:'(]
Warum würden sie?
Why would they?

User avatar
Lambuzhao
korean
korean
Posts: 7786
Joined: 13 May 2012 02:57

Re: Language practice thread

Post by Lambuzhao » 02 May 2015 21:11

shimobaatar wrote:
mbrsart wrote:
kilenc wrote:pero no sé si los mandatos proceden del subjuntivo por cierto
but i don't know if the commands come from the subjunctive for certain
Yo tampoco, pero sería interesante saberlo.
Me neither, but it would be interesting to know.
Estoy definitivamente de acuerdo. [+1]
I definitely agree.

Да. [;)]
Yup.

ces mandats formels viennent du subjonctif.
Those formal commands come from the subjunctive.


Hágalo Ud. [->] que Ud. lo haga [->] {quisiera/me encantaría/me gustaría/sería bueno/espero/deseo/etc.} que Ud. lo haga

Beaucoup de gens perouviens disent «que Ud. lo haga», c'est a dire, la forme avec «que»,
Many Peruvan folks say «que Ud. lo haga», that is, the form with the "que",

au lieu de la forme réelle du mandat.
instead of the actual command form.

Beaucoup de gens portoricains disent «¿Por qué no lo hagas?», et evitent la forme de «Ud.»
Many Puertorican folks say «¿Por qué no lo hagas?», and avoid the 'Ud.' form

mais encore c'est le subjonctif.
But it's still the subjunctive.

Prefiero usar los mandatos formales con un "que" en frente,
I like to use the formal commands with the "que" in front,


Es como una señal morfosintáctica que «¡Mire! Aquí hay un deseo no complido».
It's like a morphosyntactic signal that "Hey! Here's an unfulfilled desire."

Precisamente porque le falta el comienzo {e.g. espero/me gustaría/sería bueno}
Exactly b/c it's missing the beginning part {exemplorum gratia}.

comme s'il était un subjonctif en ballant
As if it were a dangling subjunctive.
:wat:

shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 11791
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: Language practice thread

Post by shimobaatar » 03 May 2015 02:25

Hmm, ése es interesante para saber. Gracias, Lambuzhao. [:)]
Hmm, that's interesting to know. Thanks, Lambuzhao.

Ahora tengo que salir de mi computadora por un tiempo corto porque debo estar yendo a cenar.
Now I have to leave my computer for a little while because I should be going to eat dinner.

User avatar
Illuminatus
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 110
Joined: 13 May 2012 15:17
Location: Germany

Re: Language practice thread

Post by Illuminatus » 03 May 2015 16:12

:gle: Is ceart dom a dhéanamh iomaí rud inniu, ach is fearr liom foghlaim beagán Gaeilge nó Rúiseach, sin nó caitheamh cuid den am le mo chairde.
I have many things to do for today but I would rather learn some more Irish or Russian, or spend time with my friends.
:deu:

shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 11791
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: Language practice thread

Post by shimobaatar » 04 May 2015 06:02

shimobaatar wrote:Ahora tengo que salir de mi computadora por un tiempo corto porque debo estar yendo a cenar.
Now I have to leave my computer for a little while because I should be going to eat dinner.
¿Debo decir que disfruté la cena, ayer y hoy? [:P]
Should I say that I enjoyed dinner, yesterday and today?
Illuminatus wrote: :gle: Is ceart dom a dhéanamh iomaí rud inniu, ach is fearr liom foghlaim beagán Gaeilge nó Rúiseach, sin nó caitheamh cuid den am le mo chairde.
I have many things to do for today but I would rather learn some more Irish or Russian, or spend time with my friends.
Definitivamente puedo entender este sentimiento.
I can definitely understand this feeling.

User avatar
Sḿtuval
greek
greek
Posts: 850
Joined: 10 Oct 2013 00:56
Location: California

Re: Language practice thread

Post by Sḿtuval » 04 May 2015 07:17

shimobaatar wrote:
Illuminatus wrote: :gle: Is ceart dom a dhéanamh iomaí rud inniu, ach is fearr liom foghlaim beagán Gaeilge nó Rúiseach, sin nó caitheamh cuid den am le mo chairde.
I have many things to do for today but I would rather learn some more Irish or Russian, or spend time with my friends.
Definitivamente puedo entender este sentimiento.
I can definitely understand this feeling.
De acuerdo.
Yup.

¿Creen ustedes que yo pueda aprender ruso y hablarlo con fluencia en un año?
Do you all think I can learn Russian and speak it fluently in a year?
I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing.

User avatar
kilenc
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 121
Joined: 27 Mar 2015 23:14
Location: louisville
Contact:

Re: Language practice thread

Post by kilenc » 04 May 2015 12:47

Sḿtuval wrote:¿Creen ustedes que yo puedo aprender ruso y hablarlo con fluencia en un año?
Do you all think I can learn Russian and speak it fluently in a year?
no sé a qué nivel hablas idiomas similares, pero es posible, si tienes el tiempo.
I dunno what level you speak similar languages, but it's possible, if you have the time.

y verbos como creer, pensar, y decir no exigen el subjuntivo nunca a menos que son negativos (no creer que..., etc.)
and verbs like creer, pensar, and decir never require the subjunctive unless they're negative (I don't believe that..., etc.)
eventually ill work out a good conlang :)

User avatar
GrandPiano
runic
runic
Posts: 2639
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Language practice thread

Post by GrandPiano » 04 May 2015 13:14

Sḿtuval wrote:¿Creen ustedes que yo pueda aprender ruso y hablarlo con fluencia en un año?
Do you all think I can learn Russian and speak it fluently in a year?
是,只要你有对的态度。
Shì, zhǐyào nǐ yǒu duì de tàidu.
Yes, if you have the right attitude.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

User avatar
Tuslaven Kukristo
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 161
Joined: 31 Dec 2014 01:57

Re: Language practice thread

Post by Tuslaven Kukristo » 04 May 2015 22:15

Sḿtuval wrote:¿Creen ustedes que yo puedo aprender ruso y hablarlo con fluencia en un año?
Do you all think I can learn Russian and speak it fluently in a year?
:grc: ναί. κάνε αύτό!
Yes! Do it!

:esp: Voy a tratar de aprender el idioma de griego durante este verano.
I am going to try to learn Greek this summer.
Fluent: :usa:
Learning: :esp: + :grc: + :rus: + :epo: + :heb: + Toki Pona + ASL
Conlang: Image(Teeverb Kuluxem)

shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 11791
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: Language practice thread

Post by shimobaatar » 04 May 2015 23:42

GrandPiano wrote:
Sḿtuval wrote:¿Creen ustedes que yo pueda aprender ruso y hablarlo con fluencia en un año?
Do you all think I can learn Russian and speak it fluently in a year?
是,只要你有对的态度。
Shì, zhǐyào nǐ yǒu duì de tàidu.
Yes, if you have the right attitude.
Una actitud buena va a ayudarte, pero…
A good attitude will help you, but…

Personalmente, no creo que nadie puede aprender un idioma y hablarlo absolutamente perfectamente en solo un año, porque hay nadie que no tiene ningunas otras necesidades y responsabilidades.
Personally, I don't think anyone can learn a language and speak it absolutely perfect in just a year, because there isn't anyone who doesn't have any other needs or responsibilities.

¡Pero debes definitivamente intentar, porque estoy absolutamente seguro que vas a poder aprender mucho! [:D]
You should definitely try, though, because I'm absolutely sure that you'll be able to learn a lot!

User avatar
GrandPiano
runic
runic
Posts: 2639
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Language practice thread

Post by GrandPiano » 05 May 2015 03:54

Spoilered for all-English:
Spoiler:
There's a huge difference between "fluent" and "absolutely perfect". Not to mention that the definition of fluency varies depending on who you ask. Really, even if you have a lot of other responsibilities, you might be surprised at the number of opportunities you can have to practice a language if you're devoted enough. Pretty much any time when you're waiting is a good opportunity to learn or review vocabulary: Waiting for the bus, waiting in line, waiting on the bus, etc. Even if you're busy, just start with whatever you have time for. If you become devoted enough, you'll eventually be making more and more time to learn and practice.

Also, an important thing: If you want to achieve fluency, spoken practice is really, really important. Start speaking as soon as you can; even if you're only at a basic level and don't even know how to form the plural or conjugate verbs for tense or whatever, just work with what you have. Tarzan-speak is perfectly OK at a basic level, and mistakes are essential for learning. Contrary to popular belief, mistakes often made early on do not stick with you and become nearly impossible to correct later on. [;)]
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 11791
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: Language practice thread

Post by shimobaatar » 05 May 2015 04:15

I'm using spoilers for English as well:
Spoiler:
Well, my definition of "fluency" is almost as close to "absolutely perfect" as a non-native speaker can get. There's nothing that I'd call "fluency" that could be achieved in a year, and, since I don't know what Sḿtuval's exact goals are, I responded regarding my definition of "fluency".

You're right about the waiting and devotion stuff, but I've yet to meet a human being perfect enough to fully take advantage of all that, let alone approximately half of it, especially not within one year.

I completely agree about the speaking early on thing. I'd say attempting to converse in any way (such as communicating with others by writing posts in threads like these) is good to do.

User avatar
GrandPiano
runic
runic
Posts: 2639
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Language practice thread

Post by GrandPiano » 05 May 2015 04:23

Spoiler:
What do you mean by "absolutely perfect"? Do you mean knowing every single detail of the language? Not even native speakers have that down.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 11791
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: Language practice thread

Post by shimobaatar » 05 May 2015 04:56

Spoiler:
No, of course not. I'd like to think I'm not a complete idiot. I suppose I should have said "almost as close to "absolutely perfect" as any speaker can get". Nobody can be an "absolutely perfect" speaker. I'll try to express this another way. I'd say that being "fluent", or "almost absolutely perfect", is being able to think of at least one way to express nearly everything you want to say without taking several minutes to just think about it, and being able to construct those sentences from off the top of your head. If you need to find a few words or grammar points by talking to the people around you in the language in question, or using a dictionary or something written in the language in question, that's fine, as long as you're not always doing that and taking up lots of time doing it. Anyway, if you can do all that more than 75% of the time, I'd probably call that fluency, although it's not that straightforward. I'm also bad with numbers, so the percentage might not really be what I'm thinking of.

For understanding, I'd say fluency is something like being able to understand nearly everything that's said to you without having to ask or research more than five things (using resources in the language in question or asking people near you who speak the language in question) 75% of the time or more. It's pretty similar to speaking fluency, so again, it's not that straightforward, and it's not easy to explain.

This pretty much goes for any speaker, native or not, I guess. Native speakers can't understand others and express themselves 100% of the time either.

What would you call fluency?

User avatar
GrandPiano
runic
runic
Posts: 2639
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Language practice thread

Post by GrandPiano » 05 May 2015 05:08

Spoiler:
I suppose that's more or less what I was thinking of. What really matters is what Sḿvutal's definition of fluency is, though. Shimobaatar, just out of curiosity, what sorts of learning techniques do you consider to be the most effective?
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

User avatar
Sḿtuval
greek
greek
Posts: 850
Joined: 10 Oct 2013 00:56
Location: California

Re: Language practice thread

Post by Sḿtuval » 05 May 2015 05:55

Mi definición de "con fluencia" es poder entender los nativos bien y hablar un poco rápidamente.
My definition of "fluently" is to be able to understand natives and speak a little fast.

Я думаю что я хорошо говорю по-русски, но не быстро.
I think I speak* Russian well, but not fast.

*The word "pronounce" would probably be better, but I don't know the Russian one.
I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing.

User avatar
DesEsseintes
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4630
Joined: 31 Mar 2013 13:16

Re: Language practice thread

Post by DesEsseintes » 05 May 2015 06:00

произносить - to pronounce
произношение - pronunciation

shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 11791
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: Language practice thread

Post by shimobaatar » 05 May 2015 06:06

Spoiler:
Heh, see? We're native speakers of English, and look how much trouble we had communicating. [:P]

But yes, if we're going to advise Sḿvutal, using their definition would be the only way to go.

Hmm… that's an interesting question. The thing I do that I think is probably the most effective is silently "talking to myself" in a language/trying to figure out how I would say or describe certain things if I had to. I also silently "talk to myself" about grammatical points I've learned. Additionally, I do my best to connect new vocabulary to ideas/mental images instead of English words.

Conversing with others in a language is also a good way to learn, but we've said that already.

@Sḿtuval: I don't speak Russian, so I can't say how well you already speak it, but you're obviously not starting from scratch, so I'd say you have a pretty good chance of reaching your goals by next May. [:D]

User avatar
Sḿtuval
greek
greek
Posts: 850
Joined: 10 Oct 2013 00:56
Location: California

Re: Language practice thread

Post by Sḿtuval » 05 May 2015 06:54

DesEsseintes wrote:произносить - to pronounce
произношение - pronunciation
Спасибо. Я помню слова сейчас.
Thanks. I remember the word now.

Что мы должны говорить о?
What should we talk about?
I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing.

Post Reply