(ACH) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

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eldin raigmore
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Re: (ACH) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » 03 Dec 2018 21:31

Are the Koryak кытьгем and the Ojibwe dreamcatcher related?

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elemtilas
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Re: (ACH) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by elemtilas » 04 Dec 2018 04:53

eldin raigmore wrote:
03 Dec 2018 21:31
Are the Koryak кытьгем and the Ojibwe dreamcatcher related?
An interesting question!

To which I think the answer might lie somewhere between "probably not but possibly so" and "yes..." and "...yes."

We do know that the "Native" Americans are Asians that immigrated over to the New World before anyone thought of building a Wall anywhere. Except for a wall of water which shut off the flow of migrants about 8000BC. The lands the Native Asian Americans came from, Southwestern Beringia, roughly corresponds to the land now inhabited by the Koryaks.

So. "Probably not but possibly so". The last possible time any culture could have extended all along Beringia was 10000 years ago. In all those thousands of years, the people that would become Ojibwe had long journeys to make before ending up where they did. We also don't know if the Proto-Koryaks and Proto-Ojibwe are related or were even in Beringia at the same time or had a related material culture. The long stretches of time speak to the improbability but bare possibility. We do know that cultural artifacts & practices can survive for even longer periods of time, and there do seem to be some similarities in construction and use, so it is possible.

"Yes..." The similarity in construction and use as a shamanic tool speaks to either a) the two tools being related by descent from a common ancestor or b) the two tools being related only by chance occurrence of form. Both are basically nets or traps, and it would make sense for the shaman to make tools that will trap ill influences or dreams.

"...Yes." The rising and long-lived popularity of all thing Native American within the broader culture has made a number of objects popular generally. Almost any panethnic festival in the US will have one or more craftsmen-vendors selling "Native American (Inspired) Products". Jewelry, dreamcatchers, peace pipes, chachkies with feathers glued on. We do know that dreamcatchers are verifiably old in the ethnographic record. I can't find any old pictures of Koryak life that depict anything like a dreamcatcher. I can't find any old images of Siberian dream catchers in general. Drums yes, dreamcatchers no. (That doesn't mean they aren't old in Koryak culture, but it speaks against.) One thing we do have to keep in mind is the possibility of westward migration of the dreamcatcher. Perhaps it is the case that Native Asians became aware of their cousins' folklore and shamanic tools and decided "hey, if it works for them, maybe it'll work for us too!" and so adopted the dreamcatcher.
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eldin raigmore
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Re: (ACH) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore » 04 Dec 2018 06:37

Thanks, @padraig.
The kitgem themselves seem to be very traditional for the Koryaks in Kyrgyzstan, if I correctly interpret the websites I’ve found, only one of which is in English.
Some of the illustrations in the non-English websites seem to show them being used to catch dreams; but they seem modern, so I’d have to be able to read and understand the language to find out how native and traditional they are.
Edit: In other words, the items themselves, and their design and manufacture, seem to be original with the Koryaks. But their use as “dreamcatchers”, may or may not be “imported”. For all I know.

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Re: (ACH) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Lambuzhao » 10 Mar 2019 13:37

Doggerland ?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmqDjPW6kxU

Wow. Now, if folks could make levees around Dogger Bank…
a whole new country! Fishers and farmers, Mammoth pasturers, and Wooly rhino hunters, oh my!

Hmm..... my conlang gears are grinding to life. An ingvæonic Northern Germanic language (???)

Whoo-hoo!

Hey, wait a minute… I have such a monster (sort of).

An Urheimat for my Dakru/Sadrås Peoples - Huzzah!

[:D]

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Re: (ACH) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by sangi39 » 14 Mar 2019 18:23

Lambuzhao wrote:
10 Mar 2019 13:37
Doggerland ?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmqDjPW6kxU

Wow. Now, if folks could make levees around Dogger Bank…
a whole new country! Fishers and farmers, Mammoth pasturers, and Wooly rhino hunters, oh my!

Hmm..... my conlang gears are grinding to life. An ingvæonic Northern Germanic language (???)

Whoo-hoo!

Hey, wait a minute… I have such a monster (sort of).

An Urheimat for my Dakru/Sadrås Peoples - Huzzah!

[:D]
There are a fair few conworlders/conlangers who've used Doggerland as part of there work, and I can see why. When it's just 15 to 20 metres below sea-level, the idea of it remaining above the surface of the North Sea into the present day is rather tempting.

As for levees? Maybe? I seem to recall that the lowest point in the Netherlands that was reclaimed from the sea is about 7m below sea-level. I don't know if that's a limitation of the technology that the Dutch are using, or if it's down to the fact that the sea floor in the Netherlands being closer to the surface, or both.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

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