So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized...

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Icalasari
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So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized...

Post by Icalasari » 10 Nov 2011 01:11

...That mine is nowhere near presentable

Can I possibly get some help? It isn't the most important part of my conworld (It's an ancient dead language only used by Deities now, and modern people are just assumed to speak another language that is autotranslated for ease), but it's still part of it =/

If so, do I post it in here, or in a new thread in the conlang subforum (I don't even know anything beyond verb, adverb, adjective, noun, proper noun. Heck, at most I could say about letters, "Pronounced like an Albertan would say it". So it's a bit of a mess that I don't feel is up to snuff for the main conlang subboard, but at the same time...)


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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Icalasari » 10 Nov 2011 01:21

Getting it presentable. Basically, the way I developed it was, "Oh, I just realized there is no way to properly say this! I'll just add this as a rule!"

Although I do try to connect each rule to the culture, I realize that it's probably a slow and inefficient method, yet the only one I really know

The language I have so far:
Spoiler:
A Pronounced, "Ah," as in, "Apple"
C Only the hard C is used
D
E Pronounced, "Ee," as in, "Evil"
G Pronounced, "J," as in, "Jam"
H Pronounced, "He," as in, "Help"
I Pronounced, "I," as in, "Ice"
J Pronounced, "Sa," as in, "Sand"
L
M
N Pronounced, "En," as in, "End"
O Pronounced, "Oh," as in, "So"
P
R Pronounced, "Er," as in, "Percent"
S
T
U Pronounced, "Uh," as in, "Under"
V Replaces B (E.G. Vee instead of Bee)
W
Y
Ai Pronounced, "Ey," as in, "Hey"
Eh
Ha
Oo
Th Replaces F (E.G. Thar instead of Far)
Ti Pronounced, "Sh," as in, "Shade"

Special Cases:
Au When U follows A, it makes an Aw sound

Dre (Der-ee) = Day
Ern (Ee-er-en) = Night
Cina (K-ahy-en-ah) = Sing (Verb)
Elan (Ee-lah-en) = Twilight
Oln (Oh-len) = Very
Sla (Slah) = Long
Sala (Sah-lah) = Thunder/Lightning
Vledon (Vlee-doh-en) = Blade
Acainai (Ah-key-en-ey) = Shield
Thina (Thy-en-ah) = Fish
Wynaca (Wi-en-ah-kah) = Water (Fluid)
Haoon (Hah-oo-en) = Rune ; Letters (Alphabet)
Eh'acala (Eh-ah-cah-lah) = Bark ; Paper
Haooneh'acala (Hah-oo-en-eh-ah-cah-lah) = Book (Lit. Rune Paper)
Thcaiti (Th-key-sh) = Ice ; Freeze (Verb)
Altana (Ahl-tah-en-ah) = Unknown ; Undescribable
Con (Koh-en) = Magic
Cin (Kai-en) = Normal
Sesec (See-seek) = Idea ; Thought
Frca (Fer-kah) = White Stones
Yvtsala (Yv-ts-ah-lah) = Metal of the Mad
Vnvnla (Ven-ven-lah) = Bubbles ; Orbs ; Spheres
T'ithtiv (T-ahyth-tahyv) = Name

Mliv (M-lahy-v) = Me, Myself, I
Tihah (Sh-hah-heh) = You, Yourself
Yoovneh (Yoo-ven-eh) = Us, We

Na (En-ah) = Reality
Mir (Mahy-er) = Lord
Nauc (En-awk) = Upper
Nr (En-er) = Truth
Ition (Ahy-shen) = Forbidden
Hraun (Heh-er-aw-en) = Creation
Tehv (Tehv) = Daughter
Hadehs (Hah-Dehs) = Destruction
Onyl (Oh-en-il) = Son
Vnasna (Ven-ahs-en-ah) = Force

Lyncos (Lin-kohs) = Language ; Talk ; Talking (Verb)
Hlne (Heh-len-ee) = Music
Hlneta (Heh-len-ee-tah) = Musical ; Noisy ; Loud (Adj)
Intoca (Ahy-en-toh-kah) = Art

Sailaj (Sey-lah-sah) = Earth
Vrdata (Ver-dah-tah) = Fire
Rntii (Er-en-shahy) = Water
Wnleto (Wen-lee-toh) = Wind
Aljr (Al-sahr) = Light (Actual Light)
Saita (Sey-tah) = Dark (Actual Dark)
Mrautinauc (Mer-aw-shen-awk) = Illusion
Helatiauc (Heh-ee-lah-shawk) = Space
Hasalna (Hah-sahl-en-ah) = Time
Acaintai (Ah-kahy-en-tey) = War/Battle
Wenmehca (Wee-en-meh-kah) = Peace
Vathic (Vah-thik) = Freedom

On (Oh-en) = One
Dento (Dee-en-toh) = Two
Tyla (Til-ah) = Three
Hmota (Heh-moh-tah) = Four
Wiloco (Wahy-loh-koh) = Five
Sylyc (Sil-ik) = Six
Mrau (Mer-aw) = Seven (Holy)
Coonca (Koo-en-kah) = Seven
Tytyc (Ti-tik) = Eight (Unlucky)
Jtasn (Sah-tah-sen) = Nine
Syca (Si-kah) = Ten
Trnca (Ter-en-kah) = Hundred
Pnaca (Pen-ah-kah) = Hundred Thousand
Thalca (Th-ahl-kah) = Hundred Million

Atin (Ah-shen) = Stop (Verb)
Cahulp (Kah-heh-uhl-p) = Drink (Verb)
Synjde (Sin-sah-dee) = Capture (Verb)
Thcatii (Th-kah-shee) = Fall ; Tumble ; Collapse (Verb)
Hrcnti (Her-ken-sh) = Herald ; Announce ; Message (Verb)
Vncajl (Ven-kah-sahl) = Arrive ; Appear (Verb)
Sintah (Sigh-en-tah) = Doing ; Performing ; Acting (Verb)
Valan (Vah-lah-en) = Away ; Leave ; Vanish (Verb)

Ijla (Ahy-sah-lah) = Cold (Physical object) (Adj)
Vitaca (Vahy-tah-kay) = Cold (Weather) (Adj)
Cyltain (Kill-tay-en) = Cold (Feeling) (Adj)
Fihna (Fahy-heh-en-ah) = Hot (Physical object) (Adj)
Wycana (Wi-kah-en-ah) = Hot (Weather) (Adj)
Ti'ipo (Shahy-poh) = Hot (Feeling) (Adj)
Vnctalp (Venk-tahlp) = Fast ; Quick ; Speedy (Adj)

Crmirnauc (Ker-mahy-er-en-awk) = Upper Lord (A deity)
Nrition (En-er-ahy-shoh-en) = Forbidden Truth (A deity)
Jtagn (Sah-tahy-jen) = Oblivion (A deity - One would rush through the word if they meant the deity instead of the word itself in Jtagn's case, and if written, the deities each have their own unique symbol)
Milhlnenr (Mahy-heh-len-ee-en-er) = True Music Teacher (A deity)
Silyncosnr (Sahy-lin-kohs-en-er) = True Language Teacher (A deity)
Cryntoca (Kri-en-toh-kah) = Art Goddess (A deity)
Thatalvathic (Thah-tahl-vah-thik) = Freedom Warrior (A deity)
Pncalynjde (Pen-kah-lin-sah-dee) = Capture Keeper (A deity)
Vnasnasala (Ven-ahs-en-ahs-ah-lah) = Thunder Force (A deity)
Vnasnavrdata (Ven-ahs-en-ah-ver-dah-tah) = Fire Force (A deity)
Vnasnathcaiti (Ven-ahs-en-ah-th-key-sh) = Ice Force (A deity)
Vatne (Vah-te-nee) = Fate, Destiny

Cr- (Ker) = Deity (Prefix)
Crnta (Ker-en-tah) = Deity
Sil- (Sahy-l) = Teacher (Prefix) (Mental activities)
Silta (Sahy-l-tah) = Teacher (Mental activities)
Mil- (Mahy-l) = Teacher (Prefix) (Physical activities)
Milta (Mahy-l-tah) = Teacher (Physical activities)
Thatal- (Thah-tahl) = Warrior (Prefix)
Thatalo (Thah-tah-loh) = Warrior
Pncal- (Pen-kahl) = Keeper (Prefix)
Pnce (Pen-kee) = Keeper
Porjath- (Po-er-jath) = Angel ; Heavenly ; Just Below Divinity (Prefix)
Porgac (Po-er-jak) = Angel ; Heavenly ; Just Below Divinity
Scrntl- (Sker-en-t'l) = Demon ; Hellish ; Just Below Divinity (Prefix)
Scrnta (Sker-en-tah) = Demon ; Hellish ; Just Below Divinity
Crys- (Ker-is) = Beast (Prefix)
Crysa (Ker-is-ah) = Beast

-T'it'ic- (Tahy-tahyk) = Negative Modifier
-Thmyt (Th-mit) = Past Tense
-Tit'ic- (Sh-tahyk) = Disrupting Past Tense
-vehca (Veh-kah) = Place Modifier

Grammar:

Adjectives come after nouns and verbs end the sentence. As the language is still under heavy construction, I will be using English words for the examples:

E.G. Water Cold Running

Nouns doing an action come before the noun they are using:

E.G. Fox Water Cold Drinking



Titles (Teacher, Carpenter, God) are prefixes. They also have their own word for if you mean in general. Cr, for example, is a prefix denoting Deity. It is only used for absolute rulers in pantheons, however, leaving only three deities to have it. Y is usually added to the end of the prefixes to denote a female

E.G. Na = Reality. Cryna = Reality Goddess

If the first letter in the root word is the same as the last letter in the prefix, then the first letter of the root word is removed. If the second character in the root word is y, then the first two characters in that word are removed.

E.G. Lyncos = Language. Sil- = Prefix for Teacher. Silncos = Male Language Teacher. Silyncos = Female Language Teacher
Rntii = Water. Cr- = Prefix for Deity. Crntii = Water God. Cryntii = Water Goddess

If the first letter in the root word starts with a vowel and you need to use the female prefix, then the first letter of the root word is removed.

E.G. Cry- = Prefix for Female Deity. Intoka = Art. Cryntoka = Art Goddess

Some prefixes can get a little odd. For example, there is Sil and Mil for Teacher of Mental Activities and Teacher of Physical Activities. Below is an incomplete list for each one

Silta: Math, Language, Philosophy, Science (Theory)
Milta: Phys-Ed, Art, Music, Science (Practice)

Essentially, if it is something that requires, at most, speaking and writing things down, then it is mental. If it requires moving around (even if it is to do something as simple as draw some of the special symbols), then it is physical. So a sword master teaching you would be a Milta, while someone teaching you to speak would be a Silta. Singing counts under music, so it is an odd one that goes under Milta, even though it would be expected to go under Silta



If a noun is describing another noun, the descriptor comes first

E.G. Vledon = Blade. Mrautinauc = Illusion. Mrautinauc Vledon = Illusion Blade



Numbers are done a certain way (obviously). Basically, when at ten, it works like japanese (nothing proceeding at tens, two proceeding at twenties, etc.). Same with the hundreds. At hundred, a new 'number' is gained every three digits. So yes, you can have hundred hundred. One will only proceed hundred, hundred thousand, etc. if there is another digit before it. Otherwise, it is assumed if no other number is said first. It will never proceed ten

E.G. On = One. Dento = Two. Tytyc = Eight. Syka = Ten. Trnka = Hundred. Sykaon = Eleven. Tytycsykadento = 82. Dentosykatrnkasykatytyc (Dee-en-toh-si-kah-ter-en-kah-si-kah-ti-tik) = 2,018. Tytyctrnkadentosykaontrnkadentosykatytyc (ti-tik-ter-en-ka-dee-en-toh-si-kah-oh-en-ter-en-kah-dee-en-toh-si-kah-ti-tik) = 82,128. Yes, it can get insane after a bit

There are two ways of saying or writing seven. The proper way is Mrau, but since seven is a holy number, people ignored this, only using it for special purposes, and made their own way of saying it. Note that the deities have no clue why humans would do this - even though they also notice that seven seems to be the number Illusoria tends to, they don't see a reason as to why a number should be revered



Negatives are done in a different way. There are ways to spell words that are going to be negative, instead of having a not word. Eight is considered unlucky since it sounds similar to this modifier (essentially, if you have, say, eight of something, they would believe that soon you would not have eight of it). This modifier, if applied to verbs, goes at the beginning (the c being removed if the word already starts with one - This of course leads to some odd looking examples which may cause words to be confused. For the sake of ease, if pronouncing, when the c is removed, there is a sudden cut off of the i sound (cut off depending on region). When written, an apostrophe will be used to indicate this) (E.G. Cahulp is the action of drinking. So if someone commented that, say, a teacher was not drinking her water, then one would say, "Silta Rntii T'it'i'cahulp")



In the case of ti being followed by i: If the t and i are separate, they will be separated by an apostrophe. So ti = sh, while t'i = t-ahy

E.G. Nrition = Forbidden Truth. T'it'i = Negative modifier



With past tense, you add -Thmyt to the end of the first word, no matter if it is a noun, verb, adjective, etc. This converts all words to past tense (it WAS the adjective, it WAS the object, it WAS doing this, etc.). As an example:

Fox Water Cold Drinking (Since there are words and more rules have been shown:)

Fox Rntii Wynaca Cahalp = The fox is drinking water
Foxthmyt Rntii Wynaca Cahalp = What was a fox was drinking what was water

This is a bit of a misunderstanding between deity and human. Humans at the time believed that something a human or deity was not observing no longer existed until viewed again. However, humans came up with something.

Future and present tense are the same. This is due to the fact that the language assumes that even the action is only a means to the end. So if you are telling someone you are completing a painting, it is heard as, "I will finish a painting". Once the action is done, it is automatically past tense.

Due to this quirk in the language, people tend to be more punctual, as you are essentially promising that you are getting something done right then and there. It also causes people with this language as their native one to look to the future more. For example, if one was getting a bad mark, a person thinking in English may dwell on it, making it the present.

Since this language does not allow that luxury, it becomes a case of, "I will soon get a bad mark," leading to trying to stop it, then, "I got a bad mark," which reduces dwelling on it, as there is no way to go, "I have a bad mark and it is ruining me".

Ownership may seem confusing with this, but if one currently owns something, then they use the past tense and say that they obtained it, usually adding when they got it. Memory of dates is quite a bit better due to this, as they are constantly recalling said information.

Native speakers of this language do have some issues though. For example, they are more literal minded, so sayings such as, "Don't count all your eggs before they hatch," would make them think that you literally mean that they should refrain from counting eggs before they hatch.

Also, due to the lack of a present tense, tasks may seem more daunting as everything is still looming on the future, even as they do the task. This can cause some hesitation when attempting to get tasks done.



Places are done in a certain way. You take a noun then add -vehca to the end of it. So a bookstore would be Haooneh'acalavehca. You remove the v if the word ends in a consonant (e.g. a sword store would be Vledonehca). This also works when using a verb, although not too many verbs are used in this manner (e.g. Synjde = Capture. A prison, therefore, would be Synjdevehca)



There is no definitive 'the' article. If one means an item in general, they just don't modify it. If they mean something specific, they add the modifiers. If there is no way to make the description more specific, then they describe it as unknown. This can cause some miscommunication if one means, say, blue books in general instead of a specific blue book. However, in this case they may say, "Number of Blue Books," to mean that they are talking about any number of them instead of a specific one. This issue in the language is due to the deities needing less information to say more, due to increased intelligence and partial telepathic abilities.

Sometimes a hard consonant follows a hard consonant (e.g. Scrntl - the t and l are both like the t and l in English). In cases like these, it is assumed that there is an eh sound between the two, but it is said fast, sort of like saying half the letter, then stopping and moving on to the next one right away.
I don't even know how to start to organize it, what I'm missing, where I've gone wrong (the letters are like that to add an exotic flavour when I type it out - it actually does have its own alphabet)

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Thakowsaizmu
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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Thakowsaizmu » 10 Nov 2011 01:30

One important thing is to learn some IPA so you can transcribe the sounds into something we can all understand.

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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by hashi » 10 Nov 2011 01:33

I can help turn your phonetic explanations into IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet)

A /æ/
C /k/
D /d/
E /i/
G /dʒ/
H /h/
I /aɪ/
J /s/
L /l/
M /m/
N /n/
O /aʊ/
P /p/
R /ɜ/ (not sure about this one based on your explanation - could also be /ɚ/)
S /s/?
T /t/
U /ʌ/ (not sure about this either as /ʌ/ has merged with /a/ in my vernacular to be /ɐ/)
V /v/
W /w/?
Y /j/?
Ai /eɪ/
Eh ??
Ha ??
Oo ??
Th /θ/?
Ti /ʃ/

Special Cases:
Au When U follows A, it makes a /ɒ/(?) sound
:eng: [B)] :swe: [¬.¬] :jpn: :roll: :est: [:(] :mri: [:'(]

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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Sankon » 10 Nov 2011 02:06

1. Learn IPA.

2. Learn basic linguistics terminology. You can do this by reading other people's conlang's grammars/sketches and looking up terms you don't understand. I would recommend looking at shorter sketches of conlangs as opposed to full-on grammars because looking up all the terms will make getting through a grammar an awful slog. Make sure you fully understand the terms, what they signify, and how those features interact with other things. Explore the interesting places languages can go. Wikipedia is a helpful source. If you have questions, we are happy to help.

3. Get acquainted not only with features of languages, but how they interact, as that is what makes languages interesting. For example, just having an ergative alignment (if you don't know what that is, look it up!) doesn't make a conlang interesting or realistic, but what does is how that ergative alignment significantly alters how other parts of the conlang work. Languages are tightly-knit systems. A (realistic) conlang should mimic that.

4. Research! All this requires time, patience, and reading. Read any resources about languages you can get your hands on. The LCK, Wikipedia (hey look there's a language portal), the ZBB (especially the L&L Museum section), the CBB, are all great resources.

5. Ask questions! We're here to help. No question is a stupid question.

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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Icalasari » 10 Nov 2011 02:08

I found an IPA site, so I'll use Hashi's as a starting point :D

A /ɐ/
C /k/
D /d/
E /i/
G /dʒ/ Guess that's the closest. Explains why I couldn't find anything quite like the sound on the chart - didn't realize that you could combine the sounds ^^;
H /hɛ/
I /aɪ/
J /s/
L /l/
M /m/
N /ɛn/
O /aʊ/
P /p/
R /ɚ/ Seems to be the closest
S /s/
T /t/
U /ʌ/
V /v/
W /w/
Y /j/
Ai /eɪ/
Eh Think of how Canadians say eh. Maybe not as hard at the end - Sorry, due to where I live it seemed something obvious
Ha I removed this for some reason... Like the ha in hands - Pronounced with an Albertan accent if that helps
Oo Something between ɤ and o
Th Wow looks like I neglected to look at the letters in a while... Thought I did. Th as in thought or thigh. What I had there was a note on accent
Ti /ʃ/

Special Cases:
Au When U follows A, it makes a /ɑ/ sound


Ok, some of those I had no idea where to look, so I added more precise notes

Thanks Sankon. I'll make sure to follow those tips

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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Thakowsaizmu » 10 Nov 2011 02:46

Icalasari wrote: Eh /e/
Ha I removed this for some reason... Like the ha in hands - Pronounced with an Albertan accent if that helps It does not
Oo Something between ɤ and o Maybe /o̜/?
Th /θ/
Ti /ʃ/

Special Cases:
Au When U follows A, it makes a /ɑ/ sound

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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Pirka » 10 Nov 2011 04:32

Is <ti> a digraph (i.e. <tiam> = /ʃɐm/, <tiim> = /ʃaim/)?
Why is <j> /s/ when you already have <s>?
Otherwise it looks alright aside from the ones that we have no idea how to pronounce.

Post some grammar soon so that we can guide you through it.

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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Valoski » 10 Nov 2011 15:10

It's potentially an interesting language, despite the usual Englishness. Why'd you choose such an unusual orthography for your language?

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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Ànradh » 10 Nov 2011 15:46

Valoski wrote:It's potentially an interesting language, despite the usual Englishness. Why'd you choose such an unusual orthography for your language?
It doesn't seem particularly strange, at least I can see the logic in the choices even if I would have made different ones.
Sin ar Pàrras agus nì sinne mar a thogras sinn. Choisinn sinn e agus ’s urrainn dhuinn ga loisgeadh.

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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by xijlwya » 10 Nov 2011 18:31

Here's a great link for learning IPA: http://www.paulmeier.com/ipa/charts.html, maybe you can find the sounds you look for there. But remember - even Paul Meier is not perfect :).

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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Xing » 11 Nov 2011 13:17

Valoski wrote:It's potentially an interesting language, despite the usual Englishness. Why'd you choose such an unusual orthography for your language?
I also noted the Englishy orthography... But it could be OK for the moment. We could pretend that anglophones had designed the romanisation of some foreign lang.

A good thing to to is to start with the phonology. Start with deciding what sounds will be in the conlang. When you are finished with that, you could create an orthography.

The phonemes could be presented systematically, according to their point of articulation (POA) and manner of articulation (MOA.

I'll try to systematise your phonemes:

Consonants:

Voiceless (fortis) plosives:

/p t k/

Voiced (lenis) plosives:

/b d/

Voiced affricates:

/ʤ/

Voiceless fricatives:

/θ s ʃ h/

Voiced plosives:

/v/

Voiced semi-vowels/glides:

/j w/

Laterals:

/l/

Rhotic

/ɹ/ or possibly /ɻ/ - is your "R" supposed to represent a rhotic vowel (as American English "er", or is it a regular coronal approximant (like the "r" in "rose", as it appears in many English dialects?)

Nasals:

/m n/

Vowels:

Monophthongs:

Close (high): i
Mid-close: o~ɤ
Near-open: æ, ɐ
Open (low): ɒ

Diphthongs:

e͡ɪ
a͡ʊ

Some notes:
(1) I may have forgot some phonemes. Sorry for that.
(2) I speak Swedish-accented RP (which I consider to be the real English), and I have a very hard time understanding other dialects [:P]


When organising one's phonemes systematically, it's easier to spot gaps and skewedness in the inventory.

********

I'm looking forward to see more of the grammar.

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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Trailsend » 11 Nov 2011 17:59

xingoxa wrote:(which I consider to be the real English)
:roll: I suppose you believe in unicorns too [;)]

I look forward to seeing where this goes, Icalasari! The realization that you don't know what you're doing and can ask other people for help puts you leeeeagues ahead of the curve.

For a quick intro to some of the basic terminology that may be useful to you, you can check out this presentation I made for a seminar at my school.
任何事物的发展都是物极必反,否极泰来。

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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Ceresz » 11 Nov 2011 18:03

Why haven't you made a thread for that, Trailsend? I'm sure a lot of beginners would find that helpful.

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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Icalasari » 11 Nov 2011 21:55

Pirka wrote:Is <ti> a digraph (i.e. <tiam> = /ʃɐm/, <tiim> = /ʃaim/)?
Why is <j> /s/ when you already have <s>?
Otherwise it looks alright aside from the ones that we have no idea how to pronounce.

Post some grammar soon so that we can guide you through it.
<j> is a sa sound, not just s. Kind of like how c is redundant in english (we have k for the hard sound and s for those other times). I figure every language that is going to look somewhat natural should have some redundancies

Xingoxa: "R" is supposed to be like er, yes. So p/er/cent, for example
Trailsend wrote:
xingoxa wrote:(which I consider to be the real English)
:roll: I suppose you believe in unicorns too [;)]

I look forward to seeing where this goes, Icalasari! The realization that you don't know what you're doing and can ask other people for help puts you leeeeagues ahead of the curve.

For a quick intro to some of the basic terminology that may be useful to you, you can check out this presentation I made for a seminar at my school.
Well, I always feel that if you are in a spot where the other people have more experience than you, then you'd be an idiot to assume that you know what you're doing and ignore getting help

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Thakowsaizmu
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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Thakowsaizmu » 11 Nov 2011 22:00

Icalasari wrote: <j> is a sa sound, not just s. Kind of like how c is redundant in english (we have k for the hard sound and s for those other times). I figure every language that is going to look somewhat natural should have some redundancies
But there is always a reason for such things to exist. And <c> isn't redundant, but that's neither here nor there for this discussion (though <c> came first...).

So what are the reasons for <j> being /sa/? Because it is completely counterintuitive.

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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Ceresz » 11 Nov 2011 22:00

<j> is a sa sound, not just s. Kind of like how c is redundant in english (we have k for the hard sound and s for those other times). I figure every language that is going to look somewhat natural should have some redundancies
I would advise against that unless your language is going to be spoken somewhere on Earth and will therefore have a historical reason for such an oddity.
Edit: Ninja Thakow!
Last edited by Ceresz on 12 Nov 2011 00:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Aszev » 11 Nov 2011 22:27

Trailsend wrote:The realization that you don't know what you're doing and can ask other people for help puts you leeeeagues ahead of the curve.
[+1]
Sound change works in mysterious ways.

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Re: So, I took one look at somebody's conlang, and realized.

Post by Icalasari » 15 Nov 2011 20:40

Thakowsaizmu wrote:
Icalasari wrote: <j> is a sa sound, not just s. Kind of like how c is redundant in english (we have k for the hard sound and s for those other times). I figure every language that is going to look somewhat natural should have some redundancies
But there is always a reason for such things to exist. And <c> isn't redundant, but that's neither here nor there for this discussion (though <c> came first...).

So what are the reasons for <j> being /sa/? Because it is completely counterintuitive.
As stated, the main reason was to make it look a little more exotic (with an in universe reason being that, well, this is an ancient language and there were some mess ups with translation that stuck in the system)

Since the language has its own letters though I guess that's a redundancy in and of itself, so I'll swap <j> with <sa> (as for in universe reasons why there are different letters for <sa>, <s>, and <a>... Hmm... I remember there being a reason for it, but I can't recall it. It does feature predominantly in one of the deity's names, however... Guess I'll have to rework that part a bit if I want to keep it)

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