Diphthongization

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aquatiki
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Diphthongization

Post by aquatiki » 28 Jan 2013 23:47

I'm trying to make my diachronic conlang sound more interesting than it's ancestor. It used to be anti-diphthong, but now it's new environment is very heavily pro-. What are some realistic things that happen? (P.S. How do you guys know these? Do you just have to stumble upon historic sound changes over the years and remember them?) I have the normal five vowels and phonemic length, and I want to get aw ay aw oy ou ey uy iw coming up a lot more. What is possible?
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Re: Diphthongization

Post by Xing » 29 Jan 2013 07:51

aquatiki wrote:I'm trying to make my diachronic conlang sound more interesting than it's ancestor. It used to be anti-diphthong, but now it's new environment is very heavily pro-. What are some realistic things that happen? (P.S. How do you guys know these? Do you just have to stumble upon historic sound changes over the years and remember them?) I have the normal five vowels and phonemic length, and I want to get aw ay aw oy ou ey uy iw coming up a lot more. What is possible?
You could do it the Englishy way, and have /i: u:/ turning into /aI aU/. And possibly also /e: o:/ into /eI oU/. Or you could perhaps do the other way around: Have /i: u:/ turning into /eI oU/, and /e: o:/ into /aI aU/.

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by Prinsessa » 29 Jan 2013 11:21

There is also the lovely Faroese path, turning /i: y:/ into /Ui/.

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by Omzinesý » 29 Jan 2013 17:25

A palatal consonant following a vowel can turn to a glide very easily. aj > ai
labial can become /u/ av/aw -> au
It's actually more about phonotaxis and analysis than real phonetics, if a glide is a vowel or a consonant.

------------------
Sámi is very interesting because diphthongization was blocked before some vowels. So the words have alternations (damn I don't remember examples anymore).

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by aquatiki » 31 Jan 2013 04:47

Thank you all so much. This has been very helpful. Is there any process y'all know of that over generates /oi/?
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Read: :zho: :rus: :deu: :ces:
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:con: : I'm sketching "A Brief History of Proto-Polynesian-Hebrew"
and Parseltongue

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by Linguist_Wannabe » 31 Jan 2013 14:57

aquatiki wrote:Thank you all so much. This has been very helpful. Is there any process y'all know of that over generates /oi/?
Not sure what you mean by "over generate". But Australian English got it by raising the start point of the diphthong /ɔi/. This is part of a much broader chain shift of the start points of diphthongs /ɔi/ -> /oi/, /ai/ -> /ɒi/, /ei/ -> /ai/, /iː/ -> /ei/ or /əi/, /iə/ -> /iː/. You can read more about chain shifts here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_shift or here http://www.glottopedia.de/index.php/Chain_shift.

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by Prinsessa » 08 Feb 2013 09:25

aquatiki wrote:Thank you all so much. This has been very helpful. Is there any process y'all know of that over generates /oi/?
Faroese, once again, in (most?) dialects, has Ei > oi.

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by Xonen » 08 Feb 2013 20:15

Skógvur wrote:
aquatiki wrote:Thank you all so much. This has been very helpful. Is there any process y'all know of that over generates /oi/?
Faroese, once again, in (most?) dialects, has Ei > oi.
Are you sure it's not straight from Old Norse /øy/? At least intuitively, I think the change /øy/ > /Oi/ would seem more likely than /Ei/ > /Oi/, although I guess the latter could also happen. (I tried googling, and even found one book with a reasonably good section on the phonological history of Faroese - but annoingly enough, the author appears to have forgotten to mention anything explicit about the development of just this particular diphthong entirely. [:S])

Anyway, plenty of languages have something like /Ai/ > /oi/, and at least (High) German has /y:/ > /OY/ (from which it's just a short step to [OI] - and indeed, that pronunciation is apparently even attested among German speakers).

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by Dormouse559 » 08 Feb 2013 20:44

Xonen wrote:Are you sure it's not straight from Old Norse /øy/? At least intuitively, I think the change /øy/ > /Oi/ would seem more likely than /Ei/ > /Oi/, although I guess the latter could also happen.
French had /ei/ > /oi/, with /oi/ eventually becoming modern /wa/.

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by Aszev » 08 Feb 2013 20:50

Xonen wrote:
Skógvur wrote:
aquatiki wrote:Thank you all so much. This has been very helpful. Is there any process y'all know of that over generates /oi/?
Faroese, once again, in (most?) dialects, has Ei > oi.
Are you sure it's not straight from Old Norse /øy/? At least intuitively, I think the change /øy/ > /Oi/ would seem more likely than /Ei/ > /Oi/, although I guess the latter could also happen. (I tried googling, and even found one book with a reasonably good section on the phonological history of Faroese - but annoingly enough, the author appears to have forgotten to mention anything explicit about the development of just this particular diphthong entirely. [:S])
I'm fairly sure Faroese <oy> derives from ON <øy>. Surprisingly to me, when I looked up ON <ey/øy>, two of my books claimed that the pronunciation most likely was closer to German eu/äu (/ɔʏ/), which would make Faroese conservative in this regard, rather than innovative.

Also, I believe Bavarian has /oi/ from /ol/.
Sound change works in mysterious ways.

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by Prinsessa » 09 Feb 2013 02:42

Xonen wrote:
Skógvur wrote:
aquatiki wrote:Thank you all so much. This has been very helpful. Is there any process y'all know of that over generates /oi/?
Faroese, once again, in (most?) dialects, has Ei > oi.
Are you sure it's not straight from Old Norse /øy/? At least intuitively, I think the change /øy/ > /Oi/ would seem more likely than /Ei/ > /Oi/, although I guess the latter could also happen. (I tried googling, and even found one book with a reasonably good section on the phonological history of Faroese - but annoingly enough, the author appears to have forgotten to mention anything explicit about the development of just this particular diphthong entirely. [:S])

Anyway, plenty of languages have something like /Ai/ > /oi/, and at least (High) German has /y:/ > /OY/ (from which it's just a short step to [OI] - and indeed, that pronunciation is apparently even attested among German speakers).
Goes for both of them. ON øy, corresponding to Icelandic ey, as in FO oy(ggj) (Icelandic ey, Norwegian øy) is /Oi/ in all dialects. Then ei, corresponding to IS/ON/NO ei, is, I think, /Oi/ commonly, but /ai/ in the north, if I remember correctly. So <heim> is /hOim/ commonly, and /haim/ in some places. Also note that the short version of ei is /O/ everywhere, as in <eingin> /ˈɔɲdʒɪn/, of which some forms are even spelled with <o> (accusative <ongan>, for example), which goes for a lot of words (though this ei does not come from ON ei, but from e, so it may differ, possibly, but the fact remains that a lot of speakers have /Oi/ for ei).

You can hear it in this song, for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qWD4paslXQ

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by Ean » 09 Feb 2013 23:16

In Iveriss, my Germanic conlang, length did something like in English and now you have short <a e i o u> /a e i o u/ contrasting with long <a e i o u>/<ae ei/ie y ou/ow/au/au eu/ew> /aɛ̯ i ɛj aw ew/. For instance:

/ma:n/ > /maɛ̯n/ maen "moon"
/go:d/ > /hawɾ/ haud "good"

Weirder things happen, like /e:/ > /ʊɨ/ <wy> as in llwyd "grey" for Welsh.

Another way to get semivowels for the diphthongs, in case it hasn't been mentioned yet, is through liquids, /r l/ for instance. For example, in Brazilian Portuguese modern coda <l> always stands for /w/ from earlier phonemic velar l (ultimately from Latin /l/). For instance the name Sílvia is /'siw.vjɐ/.

And not only in codas, it can occur intervocally yet disappear and make normal vowels merge into the diphthongs in the most natural ways, like for instance Latin artificiales to Portuguese artificiais via ellision of /l/ (and /e/ was demoted to /i/).

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by Xonen » 10 Feb 2013 15:01

Skógvur wrote:Then ei, corresponding to IS/ON/NO ei, is, I think, /Oi/ commonly, but /ai/ in the north, if I remember correctly.
The other way around, according to Wikipedia:
Image

Still, you're right that historic <ei> has become /Oi/ in some dialects (i.e. the northern ones). However, based on the modern situation alone, my first hypothesis on the history of these diphthongs would be that /Ei/ first became /ai/ in Faroese in general, and that this /ai/ then subsequently shifted to /Oi/ in some dialects. Again, I'm not saying /Ei/ > /Oi/ can't happen, but I'm fairly sure /ai/ > /Oi/ is still a far more likely change.

Then again, I guess it doesn't really matter if all we're concerned about is the end result. /Ei/ can certainly become /Oi/, even if it often goes through some kind of intermediate stage first.

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by Prinsessa » 11 Feb 2013 03:15

Yes, yes, of course. I didn't think we were just talking about the second stage of any sound. Just any interesting end result.

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by Hakaku » 11 Feb 2013 03:28

Canadian French has the following general shifts:

[ɛː] → [ae̯], [aɛ̯], [ɛi̯], [aɪ̯], [ai̯]
[øː] → [øy̯]
[oː] → [ou̯], [oʊ̯]
[ɑː] → [aʊ̯], [au̯], [aɔ̯], [ɑɔ̯] (except before /j/)
[ɔː] → [ɑɔ̯] (before /ʁ/)
[œː] → [aœ̯], [œy̯], [aø] (before /ʁ/)
[ãː] → [ãũ̯]
[ẽː] → [ẽĩ̯], [ãẽ̯]
[õː] → [õũ̯]
[œ̃ː] → [œ̃ỹ̯]

As for other solutions, you don't have to forcibly rely on vowel shifts. You can have consonants drop, creating diphthongs as well. For example, in the Kagoshima dialect of Japanese you have:

/...re/, /...ri/ > /...i/
are > ai [aj]
ore > oi [oj]

/...si/ > /...i/
kagoshima > kagoima

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by DrGeoffStandish » 26 Feb 2013 20:37

Maybe some input from Elfdalian (spoken in Western Central Sweden) and Gutnish (spoken in Gotland island in Sweden) could be of some interest:

Elfdalian secondary diphthongs:
    • ON í: [iː] → [aɪː] "ai"
      ON ó: [oː] → [ʊɔː] "uo" (Note: [ʊɛː] "" in some dialects)
      ON ú: [uː] → [aʊː] "au"
      ON ý: [yː] → [ɔʏː] "åy"
      ON ǿ: [øː] → [ʏœː] "" (Note: [ʏæː] "" in some dialects)
      ON ei: [ɛɪː] → [eː] → [ɪeː] "ie" (Note: Old Norse é [eː] became [iː] as a consequence)
Gutnish secondary diphthongs:
    • ON é,ǽ: [eː] → [eɪː] "ei" (Note: Old Gutnish had merged ON é,ǽ into é)
      ON í: [iː] → [ɛɪː] "äi" (Note: [eɪː] "ei", i.e. merging with ON é,ǽ, in most Modern Gutnish dialects)
      ON ó: [oː] → [ɔʊː] "ou"
      ON ú: [uː] → [eʊː] "eu"
      ON ý,ǿ: [yː] → [œʏː] "öy" (Note: Old Gutnish had merged ON ý,ǿ into ý)
An interesting observation is that neither Elfdalian nor Gutnish diphthongized ON á unlike many other "Mainland" Scandinavian dialects.

N.B.: The spellings within "..." are the semi-official ones as proposed and recommended by Råðdjärum (Elfdalian) and Gutamålsgillet (Gutnish) language councils.
There are competing orthographies for both Elfdalian and Gutnish, though, especially for the latter language.

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by HinGambleGoth » 20 Jul 2014 14:05

Can anyone help me transcribing the drawly diphthongization in :se-og:

/y:/ = /øy/ hyvel = höyvel
/i:/ = /eɪ/ fin = fein
/ʉ:/ = (unsure) i would spell it äu. hus = häus
/ɑ:/ = (unsure) would spell it åa. gata = gåate, it is also slightly nasalised, in all contexts.
/e:/ = not sure if it is fully diphthongized, but there can be some glide there.
/ø:/ = /œə/ not sure if it is actually diphthongized.
/o:/ = can be a slight schwa.
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Re: Diphthongization

Post by Xonen » 21 Jul 2014 21:00

HinGambleGoth wrote:/y:/ = /øy/ hyvel = höyvel
/i:/ = /eɪ/ fin = fein
/ʉ:/ = (unsure) i would spell it äu. hus = häus
Your orthographic representation suggests something like [ɛʉ]. Then again, the expected parallel development with the other high vowels would yield [ɵʊ̈], or maybe [ɘʊ̈].
/ɑ:/ = (unsure) would spell it åa. gata = gåate
Phonemically it would probably make sense to just call that /oa/, although I can't say much about the actual phonetic realization. Presumably [oa], [ɔɑ], or something in between.
it is also slightly nasalised, in all contexts.
You mean this vowel alone is nasalized in all contexts while all other vowels are completely unaffected by any kind of nasalization? That sounds extremely odd. [O.O]
/e:/ = not sure if it is fully diphthongized, but there can be some glide there.
/ø:/ = /œə/ not sure if it is actually diphthongized.
/o:/ = can be a slight schwa.
Not sure if it's the same thing, but Wikipedia seems to include the diphthongization of long mid vowels as a feature of rikssvenska:
Furthermore, /eː/, /øː/ and /oː/ are often realized as centering diphthongs [eə], [øə] and [oə].

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Re: Diphthongization

Post by HinGambleGoth » 21 Jul 2014 23:37

Xonen wrote: You mean this vowel alone is nasalized in all contexts while all other vowels are completely unaffected by any kind of nasalization? That sounds extremely odd. [O.O]
Yes, it is nasal regardless of position, listen to how :se-og: pronounce "har" and "gata". but as you say this probably applies to all vowels, so you could say that Östgötska has a "nasal voice" in general.

Xonen wrote: Not sure if it's the same thing, but Wikipedia seems to include the diphthongization of long mid vowels as a feature of rikssvenska:
Furthermore, /eː/, /øː/ and /oː/ are often realized as centering diphthongs [eə], [øə] and [oə].
It is not uncommon to hear /eː/ turning into /ie/ in central Swedish, even when the speaker speaks very "standard", Emil = Jemil.
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