Yay or Nay?

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Boehijt
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Boehijt » 10 Aug 2014 19:35

Which of these vowel systems should I use with this consonant system?

/p b t d k g ʔ/
/ts tɬ ʈʂ tɕ/
/s z ʂ ɕ ʑ χ h/
/m n ŋ/
/ʋ r l j ʁ/

/i ɯ u~o a e/
/i ɯ u~o a e y ɵ æ/
/i u o a e y ɵ æ ɯ/

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DesEsseintes
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by DesEsseintes » 10 Aug 2014 19:42

Personally, I'd go for /i ɯ u~o a e/

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DesEsseintes
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by DesEsseintes » 10 Aug 2014 21:22

I was practicing the other day and found that I can relatively effortlessly distinguish [n̥ʰ n̥]. As TLFKAT has "aspirated" vowels that aspirate a preceding consonant I'm now wondering whether to make /n̥ n/ phonemic which would result in a three-way phonetic distinction [n̥ʰ n̥ n]. This would mirror existing contrasts [sʰ s z] [ɬʰ ɬ l] etc. (voiced sibilants cannot be followed by an aspirated vowel btw)

Yea or Nay.

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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by shimobaatar » 10 Aug 2014 21:30

DesEsseintes wrote:I was practicing the other day and found that I can relatively effortlessly distinguish [n̥ʰ n̥]. As TLFKAT has "aspirated" vowels that aspirate a preceding consonant I'm now wondering whether to make /n̥ n/ phonemic which would result in a three-way phonetic distinction [n̥ʰ n̥ n]. This would mirror existing contrasts [sʰ s z] [ɬʰ ɬ l] etc. (voiced sibilants cannot be followed by an aspirated vowel btw)

Yea or Nay.

Definitely yes.

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eldin raigmore
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by eldin raigmore » 12 Aug 2014 07:03

DesEsseintes wrote:… [n̥ʰ n̥]. TLFKAT has "aspirated" vowels that aspirate a preceding consonant ... whether to make /n̥ n/ phonemic ... a three-way phonetic distinction [n̥ʰ n̥ n]. would mirror existing contrasts [sʰ s z] [ɬʰ ɬ l] etc. ...
Up to you, IMO.
I think I'd have trouble learning such a language. But maybe I'm wrong.
Anyway if you can pronounce it and recognize it when pronounced you don't have any reason not to include it in a conlang --- IMHO FWIW.

Rainchild
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Rainchild » 12 Aug 2014 07:22

Dear Boehijt,

I favor the third vowel system down, namely ...

/i u o a e y ɵ æ ɯ/


:-)

Jim
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Ahzoh
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Ahzoh » 08 Sep 2014 01:29

Yay or nay?

Should my conlang have purposive or sequential periphrastic causative constructions? I shan't have both.
http://wals.info/chapter/110
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thaen
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by thaen » 09 Sep 2014 01:16

Ahzoh wrote:Yay or nay?

Should my conlang have purposive or sequential periphrastic causative constructions? I shan't have both.
http://wals.info/chapter/110
Purposive. I'm not a fan of sequential.
:con: Nillahimma
:con: Øð!
:con: Coneylang

I am the Great Rabbit. Fear me, O Crabs!
Spoiler:
ı θ ð ʃ ɲ ŋ ʔ ɛ ə ø ʑ ɕ ʷ ʲ ⁿ

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Ahzoh
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Ahzoh » 09 Sep 2014 01:32

thaen wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:Yay or nay?

Should my conlang have purposive or sequential periphrastic causative constructions? I shan't have both.
http://wals.info/chapter/110
Purposive. I'm not a fan of sequential.
Yea, it's too much trouble, though, I could have made more use for the subjunctive.
He told me and I put-SUBJ not it in.
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thaen
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by thaen » 09 Sep 2014 01:40

Ahzoh wrote:
thaen wrote:
Ahzoh wrote:Yay or nay?

Should my conlang have purposive or sequential periphrastic causative constructions? I shan't have both.
http://wals.info/chapter/110
Purposive. I'm not a fan of sequential.
Yea, it's too much trouble, though, I could have made more use for the subjunctive.
He told me and I put-SUBJ not it in.
I guess that is a good use for the subjunctive...maybe I'll use sequential in a future conlang. I just have to figure out how I'm going to express the causative in my first one...
:con: Nillahimma
:con: Øð!
:con: Coneylang

I am the Great Rabbit. Fear me, O Crabs!
Spoiler:
ı θ ð ʃ ɲ ŋ ʔ ɛ ə ø ʑ ɕ ʷ ʲ ⁿ

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Lao Kou
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Lao Kou » 13 Sep 2014 05:37

For those who have been following the Géarthnuns thread:

I find myself at a bit of a crossroads (or rather, circling in the Étoile unable to get to an outer lane to pull out), never having gotten this far in organizing the grammar linearly before. One has tried to be reasonably cumulative without pulling in too much unintroduced gunk into the mix, with varying degrees of success. At the moment, I think it could go a couple of different ways without disturbing that flow, so I'm in a dither. Should one:

A) press on with verbs (next up to bat would be either the causative voice or the imperative mood (preferences?))
B) take a break from verbs and go back to nouns for a bit (probably entailing compound nouns, nouns <--> verbs, the "vocative", and possible other loose ends (?))
C) introduce relative pronouns/clauses (the thread has dabbled enough in subordinate clauses that these could go here as well as anywhere else, I suppose)
D) play a wild card (the gentle reader suggests something I might not have even thought of which doesn't upset the apple cart)

:?:

Adjectives and adverbs are probably two or three posts down the pike regardless of what comes next.

Any nudge out of the Kou's tizzied torpor would be appreciated. [:)]
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DesEsseintes
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by DesEsseintes » 13 Sep 2014 06:20

Lao Kou wrote:A) press on with verbs (next up to bat would be either the causative voice or the imperative mood (preferences?))
B) take a break from verbs and go back to nouns for a bit (probably entailing compound nouns, nouns <--> verbs, the "vocative", and possible other loose ends (?))
C) introduce relative pronouns/clauses (the thread has dabbled enough in subordinate clauses that these could go here as well as anywhere else, I suppose)
D) play a wild card (the gentle reader suggests something I might not have even thought of which doesn't upset the apple cart)
This gentle reader votes b)

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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Keenir » 13 Sep 2014 07:11

Lao Kou wrote:For those who have been following the Géarthnuns thread:
D) play a wild card (the gentle reader suggests something I might not have even thought of which doesn't upset the apple cart)
[:)]
perhaps covering how to say "does/doesn't upset the apple cart" ? (with lesson focus on the bolded part)
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quadrilabial
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by quadrilabial » 15 Sep 2014 21:05

trills as the geminate allophones of voiced stops; implosive trills as the geminate allophones of voiced implosive stops. Y/N?
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loglorn
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by loglorn » 15 Sep 2014 21:50

How's an implosive thrill even pronounced?
Diachronic Conlanging is the path to happiness, given time. [;)]

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Creyeditor
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Creyeditor » 16 Sep 2014 00:46

Is an implosive trill just a trill with ingressive airflow?
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Keenir
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Keenir » 16 Sep 2014 07:15

Singular & Dual, or Singular & Plural?

Option One:
Spoiler:
* Singular
Tch. Skrinnle tridden hriddak.
[tC skrin:.le trid:.en hrid:.ak]
Oi! caught.trapped spider mosquitoish.fly

* Dual
Tch. Skrinnlee tridden diy hriddak.
[tC skrin:.le: trid:.en di hrid:.ak]
Oi! caught.trapped.dual spider dual mosquitoish.fly

Option Two:
Spoiler:
* Singular
Tch. Skrinnle tridden hriddak.
[tC skrin:.le trid:.en hrid:.ak]
Oi! caught.trapped spider mosquitoish.fly

* Dual
Tch. Skrinnle tridden diy hriddak.
[tC skrin:.lə: trid:.ən di hrid:.ak]
Oi! caught.trapped.PL spider.PL mosquitoish.fly
e=ē.
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799

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loglorn
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by loglorn » 16 Sep 2014 13:33

If you are asking whether to elongate or to shorten the vowel in order to mark the dual, i say make it longer.
Diachronic Conlanging is the path to happiness, given time. [;)]

Gigxkpoyan Languages: CHÍFJAEŚÍ RETLA TLAPTHUV DÄLDLEN CJUŚËKNJU ṢATT

Other langs: Søsøzatli Kamëzet

Keenir
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Keenir » 16 Sep 2014 14:34

loglorn wrote:If you are asking whether to elongate or to shorten the vowel in order to mark the dual, i say make it longer.
thank you.

also was asking if i should keep the dual or have a plural.
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loglorn
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by loglorn » 16 Sep 2014 14:56

Keenir wrote:Singular & Dual, or Singular & Plural?

Option One:
Spoiler:
* Singular
Tch. Skrinnle tridden hriddak.
[tC skrin:.le trid:.en hrid:.ak]
Oi! caught.trapped spider mosquitoish.fly

* Dual
Tch. Skrinnlee tridden diy hriddak.
[tC skrin:.le: trid:.en di hrid:.ak]
Oi! caught.trapped.dual spider dual mosquitoish.fly

Option Two:
Spoiler:
* Singular
Tch. Skrinnle tridden hriddak.
[tC skrin:.le trid:.en hrid:.ak]
Oi! caught.trapped spider mosquitoish.fly

* Dual
Tch. Skrinnle tridden diy hriddak.
[tC skrin:.lə: trid:.ən di hrid:.ak]
Oi! caught.trapped.PL spider.PL mosquitoish.fly
e=ē.
Both have Singular and Dual inside, i'm confused [O.o]

And even if you have a dual, you are probably having a plural too.
Diachronic Conlanging is the path to happiness, given time. [;)]

Gigxkpoyan Languages: CHÍFJAEŚÍ RETLA TLAPTHUV DÄLDLEN CJUŚËKNJU ṢATT

Other langs: Søsøzatli Kamëzet

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