Grammar invented for your conlang?

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eldin raigmore
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Re: Grammar invented for your conlang?

Post by eldin raigmore » 07 Jun 2017 03:13

Kuhron wrote:The articles on Equative features state that they can be thought of as "like X" or "being a X". I would thus think that the equative case for predicate nominatives would be analogous to the positive degree for predicate adjectives. As an analogue to adjectives used as modifiers (term for this, in contrast to PAs?), I think a close example would be appositives. In such a language the appositive could be placed in the equative to make a nicely consistent system.
As for the equative degree, it doesn't seem like there is a noun case that makes a good analogue, but there do exist constructions like "He's as much a man as I am." If a case could accomplish this, it's probably what I'm looking for in my little idealistic system.
I was talking about an equative degree of comparison, like "positive, equative, comparative, superlative".

You're talking about an equative case, like "nominative, accusative, dative, genitive, locative, equative".
(What you describe seems to be very similar to what I have heard called the essive case.)

If you come up with a novel or creative or otherwise cool way to accomplish something, please feel free to brag! We'll want to see it!

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Axiem
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Re: Grammar invented for your conlang?

Post by Axiem » 07 Jun 2017 04:39

Kuvian has what I'm calling three "animacy grades". Animate and Inanimate aren't surprising, but I also have something in-between, used for animals and slaves, which I'm calling "sub-animate" because I haven't found a better term.
Conworld: Mto
:con: : Kuvian

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DesEsseintes
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Re: Grammar invented for your conlang?

Post by DesEsseintes » 07 Jun 2017 05:31

Axiem wrote:Kuvian has what I'm calling three "animacy grades". Animate and Inanimate aren't surprising, but I also have something in-between, used for animals and slaves, which I'm calling "sub-animate" because I haven't found a better term.
Euchee (also spelt Yuchi) does something similar, whereby all people who are not Euchee are lumped into the same gender as animals. My conlang Híí has a similar system, but the "lower masculine gender", as I've ineloquently termed it, includes Híí males that haven't been initiated into a hunter-warrior order.

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Znex
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Re: Grammar invented for your conlang?

Post by Znex » 07 Jun 2017 06:32

eldin raigmore wrote:
Kuhron wrote:I also came up with this idea that I called "separation of equality" (in the same conlang that has the four grammatical numbers). It placed predicate nominatives in a different case from the "subjective" and caused items in a list to be inflected differently. I guess I could exploit this for topic marking or something, but at the time I had no real purpose in mind for it.
I'm pretty sure ANADEW (A Natlang Already Does (Except Worse)). If I remember correctly one of the "Eskimo" languages that has a separate case for predicate "nominatives". (The language I think I rember about, might be an ergative language, for all I can remember. I don't know how much of a difference that makes.
Polish and a number of other Slavic languages use the instrumental case for predicate nominals. Russian does as well for instance, but only for non-present tenses.
:eng: : [tick] | :grc: :wls: : [:|] | :chn: :isr: : [:S] | :nor: :deu: :rom: :ind: :con: : [:x]
Conlangs: Pofp'ash, Ikwawese, Old Quelgic, Nisukil Pʰakwi, Apsiska

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eldin raigmore
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Re: Grammar invented for your conlang?

Post by eldin raigmore » 07 Jun 2017 11:36

Axiem wrote:Kuvian has what I'm calling three "animacy grades". Animate and Inanimate aren't surprising, but I also have something in-between, used for animals and slaves, which I'm calling "sub-animate" because I haven't found a better term.
DesEsseintes wrote:Euchee (also spelt Yuchi) does something similar, whereby all people who are not Euchee are lumped into the same gender as animals. My conlang Híí has a similar system, but the "lower masculine gender", as I've ineloquently termed it, includes Híí males that haven't been initiated into a hunter-warrior order.
Adpihi has three also.
The middle animacy grade I've been calling "bound animate" or "sessile animate".
It differs from "inanimate" in that its members can move under their own power and control;
but differs from "free animate" in that its members cannot, under their own power and control, move their own entire bodies from one location to another.

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Frislander
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Re: Grammar invented for your conlang?

Post by Frislander » 07 Jun 2017 12:17

O Kanã uses a verbal suffix which goes on a verb denoting that lat least one of its arguments is masculine. The language also has a plural affix on verbs which behaves the same way: this is a borrowing from some languages of California (I can't remember which) and the masculine suffix was developed on top of that by analogy.

[Examples to arrive soon]

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Re: Grammar invented for your conlang?

Post by jute » 08 Jun 2017 20:10

Jutean mixes a split-s alignment with Austronesian triggers, which apparently is unattested

Verb classes: Ergative, Unergative, Transitive
Spoiler:
Verbs in Jutean are usually sorted into two (or three) categories, objectless (the more scientific term being unaccusative or unergative), and split (or ergative). Object-taking or transitive verbs are not always classified as a separate verb class.

The first category refers to verbs which, like their name implies, take no object, are therefore always intransitive, and in addition usually imply at least a vague sense of agency. These are usually verbs of motion, like to ('go'), ato ('come') or static, like nisaido ('feel energized'), though there are some other ones, like mihinido ('sleep') or moo ('meditate'). Unaccusative verbs (agent-lacking ones) are also usually in this category, such as no ('live, exist').
Of course these can all still use adverbs, as in to li tan ('to go to my home').
These also can't ever convey a passive meaning, aside from more convoluted constructions such as noitono mihinido ('be made to sleep', literally 'be lead to sleep), which use a patient suffix as a trigger on an auxiliary verb, but more on that later.

The second, 'split' or 'ergative' variety refers to more complicated ones. These can both stand in objectless (intransitive) sentences as well as sentences with objects (transitive ones), and depending on which is used convey either a passive or active meaning, similar to for example the English verb to break in The door broke and I broke the door. An example in Jutean would be hemo ('to eat'), where Hemo fal would translate to 'They are all eaten', but Hemo fal kiove would mean 'They all eat something'.

The third one, called 'transitive', covers the verbs who always need an object, such as to learn about. These are rare and often homonyms or additional meanings of ergative verbs, so they aren't always seen as a distinct category. A lot of secondary meanings of daho (base intransitive meaning: 'to have space'), such as 'to accommodate', 'to make room', 'to send into space', to name a few, are transitive.
And four triggers:
Spoiler:
Examples for the ergative verb joo (to see), where C. = common gender

Agentive
Joo ta ja I see this. (See 1S this.C)

Patientive
Joono ja he ta This is what I see (See-PV this.C IDR 1S)

Instrumental
Joode dovauhi he ta. The glasses are what I use to see. (See.INSV glass IDR 1S)

Locative
Joohen saanu he ta. The sea is where I see. (See.LOCV sea IDR 1S)
Additionally, I came up with the strange idea to have four clusitivity distinctions.

Image
Jutean: Hawaiian phonology meets Tagalog, with English ergativity and Mandarin tenselessness added.
Also on CWS.
Information on Juteans and their homeland

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lsd
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Re: Grammar invented for your conlang?

Post by lsd » 08 Jun 2017 20:43

Even linguists have a tendency to use concepts in a sometimes slippery fashion.
Often no term corresponds but I reuse the traditional concepts ...
(Eg I do not have parts of speech, everything is at the same level, does not prevent me from sometimes seeing adjectives ... my writing is both picto / logo / syllabo / alphasyllabo / alphabetic, but I like to talk about logography ...)

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eldin raigmore
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Re: Grammar invented for your conlang?

Post by eldin raigmore » 23 Jun 2017 02:41

@Frislander, @Jute, @lsd: Those are fascinating!

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