Omzinian Scrap thread

A forum for all topics related to constructed languages
User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2666
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread: Project VII

Post by Omzinesý » 20 Dec 2014 23:02

Random idea for my newest project

The language has an ergative-absolutive alignment which realizes in case markers of nouns.

Lé rôve trovê .
please ERG.boy ABS.girl
'The girl likes the boy.'

Lé trôve rovê.
please ABS.boy ERG.girl
'The boy likes the girl.'


But when the arguments are personal prefixes, they are attached to the verb without any case marking. Then the syntactic functions are expressed by markers of deictic directionality (the difference between go and come). Pleasing is thought as movement from the pleaser to the pleased one. Because the first person is the primary deictic center, the deixis marking tells which is the subject and which is the object.

Kénle.
[cæn̯ʲl̯ʲɛ]
k-e-n-le
sg1-ø-sg2-please.towards_deictic_center
'I like you.'

Kéonloe
[cænʷlʷɛ]
k-e-n-loe
sg1-ø-sg2-please.outwards-deictic_center
'You like me.'
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Aug 2017 19:27, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2666
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread: Project VIII

Post by Omzinesý » 28 Jul 2015 18:54

Cagenian is my old speed-lang of which I sometimes make new versions.

Cagenian (etnonym Kagen) is an endogenous European language spoken somewhere in the Mediterranean. Hypothesis on relationships with Basque and Etruscan have been posed, but both are controversial.

Phonology

p t t͡ʃ k k͡x
b d d͡ʒ g
f s ʃ h
m n
l r
j

Voiced plosives do not appear in native words, which doesn't matter much because most of the vocabulary is of Romance/Latin or Arabic origin.

<p t c c/ch k
b d g/gh
f s sc h
m n
y>

Palatals appear only before front vowels, ʃ also appears word-finally.
k͡x <k> is also palatalized when preceding front vowels but that's not phonemic.
Velars are written with c, g, and sc /sk/ when they precede back vowels and with ch, gh, and sch when they precede front vowels.

Vowels
i u
e o
a ɑ
ai ɑi ɑu

Vowels have stressed and unstressed versions
stressed - unstressed
a - ɐ~ə <â - â>
ɑ - ɐ~ə <a - a>
e -ɪ/ə <e - i/a>
o - ʊ/ə <o - u/a>
i - ɪ <i - i>
u - ʊ <u - u>
ai - e <ȧ - e>
ɑi - e <ȧ - e>
ɑu - <o - ǔ>
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Aug 2017 19:27, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2666
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread: Project VIII

Post by Omzinesý » 28 Jul 2015 19:02

Nouns have three cases the agentive, the patientive and the genitive. The agentive is the case of all agents/actors (either transitive or intransitive) and the patientive is the case of all patients/undergoers (either transitive or intransitive).
The same endings also mark definiteness/deixis. There are two deictic articles: the proximate (this) and the distal (that). Nouns have no genders and all nouns have the same inflectional paradigm.

Code: Select all

                agentive         patientive         genitive
indefinite      -ø                     -ø                -ú
proximate       -i                     -e                -í
distal          -o                     -a                -ó
The accent marks the stress on the ending.
There is also an interfix -u that appears at the end of the first part of compounds. It is clearly related to the indefinite genitive ú.
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Aug 2017 19:28, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2666
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread: Project VIII

Post by Omzinesý » 28 Jul 2015 19:24

Transitivity is not the important thing of Kagenian verbs. Verbs can be used transitively or intransitively as unergatives or unaccusatives. The case of the "subject" is the only that matters.

Pera morá 'Pero died.'
Pero morá 'Pero killed (something).'
Pero morá cata. 'Pero killed the cat.'

Cross-referencing
Number is not marked in personal affixes, so the affixes are 1st person, 2nd person familiar, 2nd person formal, 3d person proximate, and 3d person distal. There is also an infinitive.

1st-AG -i, 1st-PAT -u
2nd-fam-AG -er, 2nd-fam-PAT -or
2nd-form-AG -el, 2nd-form-PAT -er
PROX-AG i-, PROX-PAT e-
DIST-AG o-, DIST-PAT a-
INF-ACT -en, INF-PASS -on

The personal affixes can be joined:
1>2 ri
2>1 ru
Third person prefixes can co-occur with 1st and 2nd person suffixes. Two third person prefixes cannot co-occur.

TAM
Cagenian has three "tenses": present, imperfect(ive past) and perfect(ive past).
Present is the simple basic form. Th perfect is formed by moving the stress one syllable right. Because most verbs has their stress on the last syllable of the stem in the present, the stress appears on a personal suffix or a perfective suffix -á in perfect. Imperfect is formed with an auxiliary ant the infinitive.
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Aug 2017 19:28, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2666
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread: Project IX

Post by Omzinesý » 17 Jan 2016 14:48

A NEW UNNAMED PROJECT

The consonant inventory is too symmetric and it has typologically very rare phonemes like velar/palatal laterals.

Consonants
Edit: Omitted the rounded consonants.

Code: Select all

pɸ-p̪f 	ts tθ tɬ	cɕ kx kɩ̥	
p	        t	       k	        
f	      s θ ɬ	  ɕ  x ɩ̥	 
m	        n	       η	       
mṽ	      nṽ	       ηṽ	       
	         l	       ɩ	        
	         r
                       j            
I call mṽ nṽ ηṽ nasal affricates. Phonetically, they are nasals followed by a nasal vowel i.e. nasal consonants with a slow nasal rease. Historically, they have probably been some kind of affricates, but because nasal fricatives are hard to hear the fricative release has disappeared and only the long nasal release says. (I don't know what processes could create a real nasal affricate, at the beginning.

Prestopped sonorants appear as a result of sc. d-effect (term from Navajo), a morpological process that makes sonorants prestopped.
bm dn gη gηʷ
bmṽ dnṽ gηṽ gηʷṽ
dl gɩ gɩʷ
dr


Vowels
Edit: Added rhotic centranl/back vowels.

Code: Select all

i	ɨ	ɨ˞  u
e	ə   ɚ	o
a	ɑ	ɑ˞  ɒ

There are three POAs of vowels: front unrounded, central/back unrounded, and back rounded. Front (unrounded) vowels cause palatalization of the preceding consonant. Palatalized velars are palatals, actually. *The palatals stridents only appear before front (unrounded) vowels.
Rounded and unrounded consonants are merged before rounded (back) vowels.

Tones and phonations are phonemic, too, but I don't know yet how they work.

Phonotaxis is CV, but words can begin with a vowel, so the first syllable can be just v.
Word-final /ə/ can be dropped if it's the last sound in an utterance, sc. pausa forms.
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Aug 2017 19:29, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2666
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread: Project IX

Post by Omzinesý » 23 Jan 2016 21:30

Nominal conjugation of the lang of the previous post.

There are two genders: masculine and feminine. There are three cases: direct, oblique, and genitive.

There four declension, though 1st and 2nd, and 3th and 4th are quite similar. Plurals are identical in 1st and 2nd, and 3th and 4th one.

Code: Select all

direct, oblique, genitive
The root pat is used for all of the conjugations in the examples.

1. (masculines ending in <e> /ə/, which diappears in some conditions)

Code: Select all

sg. pat, patɒ <patua>, patu 
pl. patu, patu, patɚ <pater>
2. (feminines ending in <e> /ə/, which diappears in some conditions)

Code: Select all

sg. pat, patɑ˞ <patra>, patɨ˞ <patry>
pl. patu, patu, patɚ <pater> 
3. (masculines ending in <a> /ɑ/ or <y> /ɨ/)

Code: Select all

sg. pata, pato, pato 
sg. paty, pato, pato
pl. patɚ <pater>, paterɒ <paterua>, paterɒ <paterua>
4. (feminines ending in <ia> ʲa or <i> ʲi)

Code: Select all

sg. patʲa <patia>, patʲe <patie>, patʲe <patie>
sg. patʲi <pati>, patʲe <patie>, patʲe <patie>
pl. patɚ <pater>, paterɒ <paterua>, paterɒ <paterua>
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Aug 2017 19:29, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2666
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread: Project IX

Post by Omzinesý » 23 Jan 2016 21:59

History of the declensions

The marker of 1st declension was u. The plural marker was u, as well.

Code: Select all

sg. u => ə (=> ø), u+a => ɒ <ua>, u+u => u
pl. u+u => u, u+u+a => uə => u, u+u+u => uru > ɨ˞
The marker of 2nd declension was /r/.

Code: Select all

sg. r => ø, r+a => ɑ˞, r+u => ɨ˞
pl. analoguious to 1st.
3st and 4 declensions are actually the same. The 4st one just had a stem ending in a palatal, /j/ mostly. They have gone through a process where those stems moved to the feminine gender and the others to the masculine. /a/ and /i/ were derivational endings. They were long vowels (when the lang had the length contrast). For some reason they had /er/ as their plural ending.

Code: Select all

sg. aa > a, aa+a => o (maybe just analogy), aa+u => o 
pl. er => ɚ, er+a => ərɒ, er+u => əru 
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Aug 2017 19:30, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2666
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread: Project IX

Post by Omzinesý » 02 Mar 2016 22:21

Useage of the cases

Direct case
- subject of most structures
- direct object of all verbs (direct objects are defined so)
- vocative

Oblique
- stimulus of some verbs of perception and experience
- used with prepositions adverbally (The man was sitting in the prison.) including the ergative preposition used in some structures
- the theme argument of ditransitive verbs

Genitive
- all associative relations between two nouns (possession, part-whole etc.)
- Adjetives are a minimal class of 8 members so the genitive is used in structures like "man of honor".
- used with prepositions adnominally (The man in the prison was sitting.)
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Aug 2017 19:31, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2666
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread: Project X

Post by Omzinesý » 27 Apr 2016 19:35

A new project!

Consonant inventory
p <p/b>, t <t/d> t͡s <c>, t͡ʃ~t͡ʂ <č>, t͡ɕ <ć>, k <k/g>
s <s/z>, ʃ~ʂ <š/ž>, ɕ <ś/ź>
m <m>, n <n>, ŋ <ŋ>
r <r>, ʀ <r̂>
ʋ <v>, l <l>, j <j>

Phonemes have three lengths: short, long, ang over long. The lengths are of course relative. That resembles Estonian. Affricates do not have short variants.
Short consonants are written:
b, d, g
z, ž, ź
m, n, ŋ
r, r̂
v, l, j

Long obstruents are written:
p, t, c, č, ć, k
s, š, ś
I don't know yet how to write the long sonorants. Ideas?

Over long consonants are written:
pp, tt, cc, čč, čč, kk
ss, šš, śś
rr, r̂r̂
vv, ll, jj

I'm not sure about the vowel system. I'm trying to avoid making it too Finnic.
Short vowel is written <a>, long <á>, and over long <aa>.
I want to have Hungarian letters: <ő> and <ű>.

Some typology
- Language is quite agglutinative
- Verbs are perifrastic, line in Basque
- Many noun cases
- Many constructions can be expressed without lexical verb. The auxiliary codes TAM etc anyway. X Y-ILL AUX 'X goes to Y'
- Some ergativity
- I'll test egoforicity.
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Aug 2017 19:31, edited 1 time in total.

opipik
runic
runic
Posts: 2764
Joined: 12 Mar 2015 19:41

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread

Post by opipik » 27 Apr 2016 19:51

Suggestions

Code: Select all

ṃ, ṇ, ŋ̇
ṛ, ṛ̂ 
ṿ, ḷ, ʝ 

Code: Select all

i ɨ u <i ü u>
e ə   <e ö>
a   ɒ <a o>
Vowels can be short, long and overlong.
Short vowels are written <a>, long <á>, and overlong <aa>. 

User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2666
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread: Project X

Post by Omzinesý » 28 Apr 2016 15:27

opipik wrote:Suggestions

Code: Select all

ṃ, ṇ, ŋ̇
ṛ, ṛ̂ 
ṿ, ḷ, ʝ 
That's worth considering.
opipik wrote:

Code: Select all

i ɨ u <i ü u>
e ə   <e ö>
a   ɒ <a o>
Vowels can be short, long and overlong.
Short vowels are written <a>, long <á>, and overlong <aa>. 
But I still kind of like front rounded vowels of European Uralic languages.

Short
y, i, u
ø, e, o
ɑ

Long and over long
y:, i:, u:
ø:, e:, o:
æ:, ɒ

Short /ɑ/ is "split" to æ: and ɒ when long.

This is however too boring. Too Finnish.
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Aug 2017 19:32, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2666
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread: Project X

Post by Omzinesý » 02 May 2016 19:55

Omzinesý wrote:A new project!

Consonant inventory
p <p/b>, t <t/d> t͡s <c>, t͡ʃ~t͡ʂ <č>, t͡ɕ <ć>, k <k/g>
s <s/z>, ʃ~ʂ <š/ž>, ɕ <ś/ź>
m <m>, n <n>, ŋ <ŋ>
r <r>, ʀ <r̂>
ʋ <v>, l <l>, j <j>

Phonemes have three lengths: short, long, ang over long. The lengths are of course relative. That resembles Estonian. Affricates do not have short variants.
Short consonants are written:
b, d, g
z, ž, ź
m, n, ŋ
r, r̂
v, l, j

Long obstruents are written:
p, t, c, č, ć, k
s, š, ś
I don't know yet how to write the long sonorants. Ideas?


Over long consonants are written:
pp, tt, cc, čč, čč, kk
ss, šš, śś
rr, r̂r̂
vv, ll, jj
I think there are actually quite few phonological contexts where all the consonant lengths can appear.
The extreme cases of an over-long consonant following an over-long vowel and a short consonant following a short vowel do not appear.

Code: Select all

x    V:C   V::C
VC:  V:C:  V::C:
VC:: V:C:: x
So I can mark:

Code: Select all

x    án   aan
an   ánn  aann
ann  án.n x
The only environment that really has ambiguity is long vowel followed by long or over-long consonant. I think some extra mark, like n.n works when needed.

Diphthongs do not appear, but consonant clusters are common. So the long or over-long consonant cluster can also concist of two consonants of different qualities.
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Aug 2017 19:33, edited 1 time in total.

opipik
runic
runic
Posts: 2764
Joined: 12 Mar 2015 19:41

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread

Post by opipik » 02 May 2016 20:07

Code: Select all

i   ʉ u <i ü u>
e ø ə o <e ö ə o>
œ   ʌ   <ø ä>
    ɑ   <a>
<a á áh>

Code: Select all

i u <i u>
  ʊ <ü>
e o <ë ö>
ɛ ɔ <e o>
a   <a>
<ạ a á> 

Code: Select all

i u ũ <i u ü>
e ẽ o õ <e ë o ö>
a ɑ ɑ̃ <æ a ä> 
<a á áá>

User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2666
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread: Project X

Post by Omzinesý » 04 May 2016 21:44

I might have a high-low vowel harmony.

Words with high vowels have:
Short:
y, i, u
ɤ
Semi/Over-long:
y:, i:, u:
(e:)*, ɤ:, (o:)*

Words with low vowels have:
Sort:
ø, e, o
ɑ
Semi/Over-long:
ø:, e:, o:
æ:, ɒ:

*e: and o: marginally appear as high vowels in some endings where they correspond to æ:, ɒ:.

There could also be marginal front/back and un/rounded vowel harmonies but they to some affixes. High/low harmony is quite overwhelming.

I'm still not sure if I like the system, but it's the one I like the most ATM.
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Aug 2017 19:33, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2666
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread: Project X

Post by Omzinesý » 09 May 2016 21:52

Would it be unnatural ti have 7 short vowels:
y i u
ø e o
ä
but 9 semi/over-long vowels:
y i u
ø e ɤ o
æ ɒ

?
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Aug 2017 19:33, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
WeepingElf
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 193
Joined: 23 Feb 2016 18:42
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Contact:

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread

Post by WeepingElf » 09 May 2016 21:55

No, there are languages with more long than short vowels. Sanskrit, for instance, has /a i u a: e: i: o: u: ai au/ (and syllabic /r/).
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf

opipik
runic
runic
Posts: 2764
Joined: 12 Mar 2015 19:41

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread

Post by opipik » 09 May 2016 22:05

Code: Select all

i ɨ u <i ü u>
e o <e o>
iː ɨː uː <í ű ú>
eː ɘː oː <é ö ó>
aː <a>
iːː ɨːː uːː <íí űű úú>
eːː ɘːː oːː <éé ő óó>
aːː ɒːː <á ḁ́>

Code: Select all

i ɨ u <i ü u>
ɜ <ö>
iː ɨː uː <í ű ú>
eː ɘː oː <é ő ó>
ɑː <a>
iːː uːː <íí úú>
ɑːː <á>

User avatar
GrandPiano
runic
runic
Posts: 2638
Joined: 11 Jan 2015 23:22
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread

Post by GrandPiano » 10 May 2016 04:52

WeepingElf wrote:No, there are languages with more long than short vowels. Sanskrit, for instance, has /a i u a: e: i: o: u: ai au/ (and syllabic /r/).
Also Middle English, if you don't count diphthongs (which IIRC didn't distinguish length): /a e i o u (ə) aː ɛː ɔː eː oː iː uː/
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2666
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread: Project X

Post by Omzinesý » 02 Jul 2016 10:55

I read about Lithuanian and learnt that it has a pitch accent (rising or falling)on stressed long vowels or diphthongs.

Decided to implement a similar accent on my lang too. So stressed long and over-long vowels now have either rising or falling tone.

Shirt vowel: a
Long vowel rising: á
Long vowel falling: à
Over-long vowel rising: aá
Over-long vowel falling: àa

The same with dotted vowels:
Short vowel: ö
Long vowel rising: ő
Long vowel falling: õ
Over-long vowel rising: öő
Over-long vowel falling: õö
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Aug 2017 19:34, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2666
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: Omzinian Scrap-thread: Project X

Post by Omzinesý » 04 Jul 2016 12:25

So to summarize my latest Project.

Vowels
The lang has a3 vowels:
+high -ATR y i u <ü i u>
+hight + ATR ʏ ɪ ʊ <ụ̈ ị ụ>
-hight -ATR ø e ɤ o <ö e a o>
-high +ATR æ ɒ ɒ <ọ̈ ẹ ạ ọ>

They have three lenghts: short, long, and over-long. Over-long vowel appear only in stressed, first syllables and have a pitch accent, either rising or falling.
Short <a>
Long <á>
Over-long falling <áa>, over-long rising <aá>

The lang has 10 diphthongs:
-ATR ei, ey, øi, øy, ɤu, ou
+ATR æʏ, æɪ, ɑʊ, ɒʊ

Diphthongs are always either long or over-long.
Long <ei>
Over-long falling <éi>, Over-long rising <eí>

The lang has also sc. half-diphthongs, concisting of a vowel + a sonorant
V + /r/ or /ʀ/
V + /n/
V + /l/
V + /h/

Half-diphthongs are long or over-long too.
Long <ar>
Over-long falling <ár>, over-long rising <aŕ>

Vowel letters with two dots take two acutes when pitched or long <ő>.

Half-diphthongs ending with /h/ cannot, however, have the rising putch.

Consonants
Plosives: p t k <p t k>
Nasals: m n ŋ <m n ŋ>
Affricates: t͡s t͡ʃ t͡ɕ <c č ć>
Fricatives: s ʃ ɕ h <s š ś>
Trills: r ʀ <r x>
Appriximants: ʋ l j h* <v l j h>

*When it comes to phonology, /h/ seems to work like a sonorant.

Lengths of consonants
All consonants can appear short, long, and over-long.
Short <t>, long <tt>, over-long <t.t>

Allowed consonant clusters
Two obstruents
Two nasals

Consonant clusters are always long <ts> or over-long <t.s>
Other consonants cannot form clusters.
Only clusters concisting of obstruents can follow a half-diphthong

Over-long consonant( cluster)s must appear on the syllabic boundary. Long and short consonants can be followed By a sonorant in the following syllable. /aptma/ is an allowed word, /pt/ being a long consonant cluster.

Phonotactic constraints of length
A short consonant cannot follow a short vowel.
A over-long consonant cannot follow a over-long vowel.
Last edited by Omzinesý on 16 Aug 2017 19:34, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply