Rireinutire scratchpad

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Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by prettydragoon » 09 May 2013 22:44

Herein I shall examine the Rireinutire language from all the customary angles with the intention of creating a comprehensive sketch. Hence the title, Rireinutire scratchpad (rireinutireno sutoviha).

The name of the language, Rireinutire, is composed of the native name for the planet, Rireinu, and the word for 'language', tire. The word Rireinu is also a compound word, from rire 'flower' and inu 'land for cultivation', and could be translated as 'flowering farmlands'.

Phonology

Vowels
< a i u e o >
/ ɑ i u e o /

Consonants
< k ñ t n p m s r y v h ' >

There are four methods of articulation:
plosive / p t k Ɂ / < p t k ' >
nasal / m n ŋ / < m n ñ >
fricative / v s h / < v s h >
approximant / ɹ j / < r y >

There are six places of articulation, labial <p m>, labiodental <v>, alveolar <t n s r>, palatal <y>, velar <k ñ>, glottal <' h>.

Allophony: In many dialects, word-internal plosives tend to develop voicing. In Westland dialects, word-initial plosives are aspirated.

Stress
Stress falls always on the first syllable of the root. Compound words will have secondary stress on the first syllable of each subsequent root, eg. rireinutire /ˈɹi.ɹeˌi.nuˌti.ɹe/ 'Rireinu language'.

Phonological constraints
Syllable pattern: (C)V(')
Phonotactics must always be subordinated to phonostrategy. Else you have no chance to survive make your time.
Coda is only ever found in the final syllable of a word, which is the only place where a phonemic glottal stop may appear.
There are no diphthongs; each vowel is the nucleus of its own syllable. mau /ˈmɑ.u/ 'salt'
Where there are consecutive same vowels, as eg. tii 'milk', then unless the speaker is making a conscious effort to enunciate clearly, they are pronounced as a long vowel, /tiː/ rather than /ˈti.i/.
If there is a morpheme boundary between the vowels, eg. puhaaña /ˈpu.hɑˌɑ.ŋɑ/ 'dessert', the vowels remain separate.

Lexicon
Most word roots are two syllables. Personal pronouns, some conjunctions, and a few very common verbs are one syllable. There are some three and four syllable roots that are borrowings from other languages.
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Re: Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by prettydragoon » 28 Oct 2013 20:11

Grammatical morphology

Nouns

Nouns in Rireinutire may be divided in four genders, rational, feminine, masculine, and inanimate (R, F, M, I). This is a system of natural gender, in that the gender of a noun depends on the qualities of its referent. Thus, words for sentient beings and female and male animals belong in rational, feminine, and masculine gender respectively. However, the names of natural astronomical objects are also in rational gender, because they were of old seen as deities. Also, ships are often personified as female animals, and so given feminine gender. Gender is only manifested in third-person pronoun forms.

Proper names are also nouns and they are declined exactly like common nouns. Names that consist of multiple parts, such as personal names, are declined in the final part only. Usually this final part of a personal name is an appropriate honorific.

Nouns are declined in case. Rireinutire has 12 cases, nominative, genitive, accusative, partitive, inessive, elative, adessive, ablative, essive, exessive, comitative, and vocative.

Noun case suffixes:

Code: Select all

Case            Suffix  Abbreviation
nominative      0       NOM
genitive        -no     GEN
accusative      -mu     ACC
partitive       -na     PTV
inessive        -ra     INE
elative         -re     ELA
adessive        -ha     ADE
ablative        -he     ABL
essive          -pa     ESS
exessive        -pe     EXESS
comitative      -ña     COM
vocative        -'      VOC
Next I shall examine the use of cases, with sample sentences.
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Re: Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by Ambrisio » 29 Oct 2013 03:59

Those cases look a lot like Estonian!

How is the 'exessive' case used?

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Re: Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by prettydragoon » 29 Oct 2013 19:14

Ambrisio wrote:Those cases look a lot like Estonian!

How is the 'exessive' case used?
Well spotted! I actually started with the case system of Finnish.

The exessive is used for nouns that are ceasing to be something or are made into something else.

ha homepiñipe nusikive:
3RS.NOM governor-EXESS resign-PST-HSY
She resigned as governor.

kakamu petupe añapa teñekave:
sago-ACC cycad-EXESS food-ESS make-PRS-HSY
Sago is made from cycad into food.
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Re: Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by Ambrisio » 29 Oct 2013 20:39

Well spotted!
Not many languages have partitive, inessive, elative, adessive, ablative, essive and comitative cases! Not even Livonian.

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Re: Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by prettydragoon » 30 Oct 2013 19:40

What can I say? I just love me some casuistry.
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Re: Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by prettydragoon » 23 Nov 2013 18:19

Nouns: Continued
The use of cases, with sample sentences.

Nominative

The nominative case is unmarked, ie. it has a null suffix. Its glossing abbreviation is NOM, which is usually – but not always – marked in glosses of sample sentences. Nominative is the case of the subject, as well as the default case of predicative complements. As a specific case of subject, nominative is also the case of the original agent in causative constructions.

kave sirimu nomakive:
person.NOM fish-ACC eat-PST-HSY
The person ate a fish.

mano emo kuroima yakava:
1S-GEN mother.NOM blacksmith.NOM be-PRS-SENS
My mother is a blacksmith.

emo huno poyaha naiñara herenariña ñovonena otitatakive:
mother.NOM ones.own birthdaughter-ADE famous teacher-COM chemistry-PTV teach-CAUS-PST-HSY
The mother had a famous teacher teach chemistry to her daughter.

Genitive

The genitive suffix -no is used to mark possession, what has something. Also, with the adposition ñara 'with', what something or someone is with.

yuvuno moho sañi yakava:
fruit-GEN rind thick be-PRS-SENS
The rind of the fruit is thick.

mano emo kuroima yakava:
1S-GEN mother.NOM blacksmith.NOM be-PRS-SENS
My mother is a blacksmith.

mano siso hareno ñara tukiva:
1S-GEN neighbour.NOM mattock-GEN with come-PST-SENS
My neighbour came with a mattock.

Accusative -mu

object (telic); telic patient of speech verbs; what sth is without (Xmu nopo); generally, nouns with adpositions (of time, place, etc.)

kave sirimu nomakive:
person.NOM fish-ACC eat-PST-HSY
A person ate a fish.

kave huno poyaña siteyakimu motakive:
person.NOM ones.own birthdaughter-COM story-ACC tell-PST-HSY
A person told her daughter a story.

añeya hatomu nopo yokina teñekayo:
cook.NOM ladle-ACC without what.INAN-PTV make-PRS-Q
What can a cook make without a ladle?

ñaromu puho me otihihe pesera menikiva:
meeting-ACC after 1P.NOM school-ABL home-INE leave-PST-SENS
After the meeting, we left the school for home.

Partitive -na

partial object (atelic); what sth is made of, consists of; what sth looks like, sounds like, feels like, tastes like, smells like; what sth is more $adjective than; patient of speech verbs

kave sirina nomakive:
person.NOM fish-PTV eat-PST-HSY
A person was eating fish.

siki time ñotona yakave:
this box.NOM wood-PTV be-PRS-HSY
This box is made of wood.

siki ñotona time yaya yakave:
this wood-PTV box.NOM beautiful be-PRS-HSY
This box made of wood is beautiful.

ha maha siriteyana neukive:
3RS.NOM 1S-ADE fisher-PTV look.like-PST-HSY
She looked like a fisher to me.

yumakave tiina pamuma yakive:
human-person.NOM milk-PTV white-COMP be-PST-HSY
The Human was whiter than milk.

kave huno poyaña siteyakina motakive:
person.NOM ones.own birthdaughter-COM story-PTV tell-PST-HSY
A person was telling her daughter a story.

tepe yumatirena puukave:
few human-language-PTV speak-PRS-HSY
Few speak Human.

Inessive -ra

being in sth, inside sth, going to sth, into sth; in what place; specific destination

ma mivira yekiva:
1S.NOM town-INE go-PST-SENS
I went to the town.

ñaromu puho me otihihe pesera menikiva:
meeting-ACC after 1P.NOM school-ABL home-INE leave-PST-SENS
After the meeting, we left the school for home.

Vaino tomu mivira yakava:
Vai-GEN temple.NOM town-INE be-PRS-SENS
The temple of Vai is in the town.

Elative -re

coming from (inside) sth; what sth is most $adjective of; out of a group

otepayumu puho otiya otihire pesera menikiva:
schoolday-ACC after pupil.NOM school-ELA home-INE leave-PST-SENS
After the schoolday, the schoolgirl left the school for home.

koñere kanami
all-ELA old-SUPL
oldest of all

ii penire huno rahuna kipotakive:
one dog-ELA ones.own tail-PTV wag-PST-HSY
One of the dogs wagged her tail.

Adessive -ha

being on sth, near sth, going to sth, on top of sth, near sth; approximate destination; for (the benefit of) sb or sth, experiencer of sense verbs (seem, sound, feel, taste to sb)

poho henoha yakava:
cup.NOM table-ADE be-PRS-SENS
The cup is on the table.

ma miviha yekiva:
1S.NOM town-ADE go-PST-SENS
I went on the town.

meeke yakava hii miviha miñuta:
pleasant be-PRS-SENS that town-ADE go-FREQ-INF
It is pleasant to wander in the town.

emo huno poyaha naiñara herenariña ñovonena otitatakive:
mother.NOM ones.own birthdaughter-ADE famous teacher-COM chemistry-PTV teach-CAUS-PST-HSY
The mother had a famous teacher teach chemistry to her daughter.

ha maha siriteyana neukive:
3RS.NOM 1S-ADE fisher-PTV look.like-PST-HSY
She looked like a fisher to me.

Ablative -he

coming from atop of sth, near sth (either physically or notionally)

ha katohe susukive:
3RS.NOM roof-ABL fall-PST-HSY
She fell from the roof.

ñaromu puho me otihihe pesera menikiva:
meeting-ACC after 1P.NOM school-ABL home-INE leave-PST-SENS
After the meeting, we left the school for home.

Essive -pa

at/during what time; being sth, becoming sth; what sth is called; in what language

ma amipa soñakava:
1S.NOM morning-ESS wake.up-PRS-SENS
I wake up in the morning.

kakamu petupe añapa teñekave:
sago-ACC cycad-EXESS food-ESS make-PRS-HSY
Sago is made from cycad into food.

sikina payipa imekave:
this-PTV strainer-ESS name-PRS-HSY
This is called a strainer.

sakimu rireinutirepa yote sunokayo:
that-ACC Rireinu-language-ESS how.Q say-PRS-Q
How do you say that in Rireinutire?

Exessive -pe

ceasing to be sth; made into sth else

ha homepiñipe nusikive:
3RS.NOM governor-EXESS resign-PST-HSY
She resigned as governor.

kakamu petupe añapa teñekave:
sago-ACC cycad-EXESS food-ESS make-PRS-HSY
Sago is made from cycad into food.

Comitative -ña

(together) with sth, accompanied by sth; by using sth; through sth, by way of sth; proximate agent in causative constructions; listener (speech partner) of speech verbs

mano siso huno tivara hareña mehakiva:
1S-GEN neighbour.NOM ones.own garden-INE mattock-COM work-PST-SENS
My neighbour was working in her garden with a mattock.

he siha roñiña tukive:
3RS.NOM here.INE train-COM come-PST-HSY
They came here by train.

emo huno poyaha naiñara herenariña ñovonena otitatakive:
mother.NOM ones.own birthdaughter-ADE famous teacher-COM chemistry-PTV teach-CAUS-PST-HSY
The mother had a famous teacher teach chemistry to her daughter.

kave huno poyaña siteyakimu motakive:
person.NOM ones.own birthdaughter-COM story-ACC tell-PST-HSY
A person told her daughter a story.

Vocative -'

In principle, words used to address somebody take vocative case. However, in recent centuries vocative has been steadily losing ground to nominative. Vocative is only used in certain fixed expressions.

Hasesama':
deity-aunt-VOC
O my Goddess!

sopu':
peace-VOC
Hello! / Goodbye!
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Re: Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by Ambrisio » 23 Nov 2013 20:43

Partitive -na

partial object (atelic)
Accusative -mu

object (telic)
A Finnish/Estonian cipher isn't any better than an English cipher. [;)]
I like your exessive case. But again, it's used in Votic. I'd suggest that you do away with some of the cases (e.g. partitive) and maybe add more cases where Finnic languages would use adpositions (e.g. 'about', 'according to', 'for', 'because of', 'after', 'before', 'between', ...).

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Re: Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by DesEsseintes » 24 Nov 2013 06:44

Steady, Ambrisio. You might want to look up the word 'cipher' as Rireinutire clearly isn't one.

For one thing, PrettyDragoon's case system is obviously based on Finnish (as she herself has said), but the language has a Japanese SOV structure. Therefore, it cannot be considered a cipher.

Second, Rireinutire has well-developed culture-specific ways of expressing things like relationships. I would suggest checking some of PrettyDragoon's posts on the Translation forum. Again, this would disqualify Rireinutire from being a cipher.

Third, an accusative/partitive split for direct objects is not unique to Finnish (and Estonian?). Russian can do the same in some instances (чай/чаю).

Fourth, PD has defined the usage of her case system in considerable detail, and though I don't have the time to check whether her usage of cases is exactly the same as in Finnish, I suspect it is not.

Again, you may dislike the similarity to the Finnish case system, but that doesn't make the language a cipher.

My suggestion, PrettyDragoon, would be to tell us more about how more complex relationships are expressed. Do you use relational nouns, adpositions, or some other strategies?

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Re: Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by gach » 24 Nov 2013 14:33

DesEsseintes wrote:Third, an accusative/partitive split for direct objects is not unique to Finnish (and Estonian?). Russian can do the same in some instances (чай/чаю).
Moreover, it exists in Mordvinic where partial objects are marked with ablative. See for example the Erzyan example

Mon śima-n vet'-t'e.
I drink-SG1 water-ABL
"I'm drinkin (some) water."

But it's still an area specific feature and in this case clearly connected to the Finnic use of partitive as the Mordvinic ablative is directly cognate with the Finnic partitive -ta. See the corresponding sentence in Finnish

Minä juo-n vet-tä.
I drink-SG1 water-PART
"I'm drinking (some) water."

It's a nice grammatical feature but unfortunately pretty iconic. This means that prettydragoon unfortunately has a bit bigger a burden to prove the originality of this particular grammatical choice and to avoid generating some long faces. The situation is a bit similar to having a general past vs. perfect distinction in your language. It's a really interesting aspectual choice to make, but so typical to Europe that you need to spend extra effort to justify including it and make the most critical people happy.
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Re: Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by DesEsseintes » 24 Nov 2013 15:53

Ah, yes, how silly of me.

The only reason why people conlang is to keep 'em critical folks happy.

[¬.¬]

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Re: Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by gach » 24 Nov 2013 16:46

DesEsseintes wrote:The only reason why people conlang is to keep 'em critical folks happy.
[:P]

You should read that as an observation on real world social dynamics rather than critically though advice of any kind. Or in other words "how to conform if confronting other people's conflicting ideas isn't your thing". Of course, there's no reason why to act this way and if constructing a grammar with certain features feels the right thing to do, by all means follow your vision.
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Re: Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by prettydragoon » 24 Nov 2013 19:44

Thank you all for your thoughtful notes. I'm glad you have found my work interesting enough to comment on.

It's true that the case system of Rireinutire is based on that of Finnish. It used to be even worse; the first version had 17 cases and was even more of a Finnclone. At this time, the main similarity is the use of accusative/partitive to denote the telic/atelic distinction. The main difference is that the sets of locative cases have two (in/from) instead of three (in/from/into) cases for each, um, location. That's not the only difference, but I dare say it's the most immediately noticeable.

I have to admit I'm partial to the partitive. The idea of a special case to mark the atelic object is just so deeply satisfying. Maybe I'm just philatelic.
DesEsseintes wrote:My suggestion, PrettyDragoon, would be to tell us more about how more complex relationships are expressed. Do you use relational nouns, adpositions, or some other strategies?
Which kinds of relationships? "Behind the barn", "over the hills and far away" type?
DesEsseintes wrote:The only reason why people conlang is to keep 'em critical folks happy.
Wait, isn't it? I know I only conlang to earn male validation. I'm the original Fake Conlanger GirlTM.
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Re: Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by prettydragoon » 20 Jul 2014 22:19

Verbs

Conjugation

Finite verb forms in Rireinutire conjugate in tense, polarity, mood, and evidentiality. These are each marked with a corresponding suffix attached to the verb root, like so:

root-TENSE-POL-MOOD-EVID

Tense
-ka Present tense (PRS)
-ki Past tense (PST)

Polarity
-0 Positive
-se Negative (NEG)

Mood
-0 Indicative (IND)
-hu Subjunctive (SBJV)
-' Imperative (IMP)

Evidentiality
-va Sensory (SENS)
-ve Hearsay (HSY)
-vo Inferential (INFR)
-yo Interrogative (Q)

ma amipa soñakava:
1S.NOM morning-ESS wake.up-PRS-SENS
I wake up in the morning.

ha katohe susukive:
3RS.NOM roof-ABL fall-PST-HSY
She fell from the roof. (I heard)

kakamu petupe añapa teñekave:
sago-ACC cycad-EXESS food-ESS make-PRS-HSY
Sago is made from cycad into food.

sikina payipa imekave:
this-PTV strainer-ESS name-PRS-HSY
This is called a strainer.

ta enakasehuvo:
2S.NOM understand-PRS-NEG-SBJV-INFR
You wouldn't understand.

sakimu rireinutirepa yote sunokayo:
that-ACC Rireinu-language-ESS how.Q say-PRS-Q
How do you say that in Rireinutire?

yo ta yumakave yakayo:
Q 2S.NOM human-person.NOM be-PRS-Q
Are you a Human? (yes/no question)
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Re: Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by Creyeditor » 31 May 2015 20:56

Sorry for reviving this old thread, but I've got a question about your phonology: Could your phonological constraints be rephrased as a phonological process, that deletes the coda everywhere except in word final position, where every consonants changes into a glottal stop? Or something along the lines ...
That would make it unnecessary to posit a phonemic glottal stop.
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Re: Rireinutire scratchpad

Post by prettydragoon » 01 Jun 2015 18:23

Creyeditor wrote:Sorry for reviving this old thread, but I've got a question about your phonology: Could your phonological constraints be rephrased as a phonological process, that deletes the coda everywhere except in word final position, where every consonants changes into a glottal stop? Or something along the lines ...
That would make it unnecessary to posit a phonemic glottal stop.
That's a fine question. I think the answer is maybe. I haven't actually looked into phonological processes at all because I had this static view of how I wanted Rireinutire to sound like, and that's what we have.

Also maybe the glottal stop could be reanalysed as a word final allophone of /k/.

Also also I should post more stuff here... so thank you for reviving this thread.
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