Kgáweqʼ

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Kgáweqʼ

Post by Linguifex » 15 Sep 2013 02:09

This first post is mainly going to deal with the speakers (briefly), the phonology, and the verb.

The Kgáweqʼ inhabit the environs to the north of the river Sovadegh (Kgáweqʼ Sówadekg), bordering on the Bäigäs territories. They are the descendants of a group which migrated down from the north about two to three millennia prior and inhabited the regions along the river. The term kgáweqʼ itself roughly means "people group, nation", though via semantic drift it is often understood as meaning the Kgáweqʼ in particular unless otherwise specified, and the usage of the term kgáweqʼ to describe other people groups is rapidly becoming considered archaic. My conpeople paint others with a wide brush just like humans do: The Kgáweqʼ are often stereotyped as hyperintelligent, sometimes insufferable folk who pay great attention to detail. While science and engineering are quite advanced in the Kgáweqʼ state, it is by no means a universal pursuit; indeed, the position of the nation along the Sovadegh and the construction of the canal system mean that the transport of goods and trade is a major economic driver.

As for their language, the phonology and romanization is as follows:

|N| typically 〈n〉
/t tʼ d k kʼ g q qʼ ʔ/ 〈t t’ d k k’ g q q’ ’〉
/s ɬ/ 〈s ł〉
/t͜s t͜sʼ t͜ɬ t͜ɬʼ k͜x k͜xʼ q͡χ q͡χʼ/ 〈c c’ ƛ ƛ’ kg kg’ qg qg’〉 (convention for dorsal affricates based on romanizations of a South African lang I encountered reading The Seed Is Mine, which appear to have been created or influenced by the Dutch)
/l j w ʕ/ 〈l y w ‘〉

/a ə e i o u/ 〈a ǝ e i o u〉
/eə̯ aə̯ iə̯/ 〈eǝ aǝ iǝ〉

As stated above, stress is contrastive; primary stress is designated with an acute (if the second syllable is stressed or the word is a monosyllable, the acute is optional). Creaky voice is also phonemic and is denoted with an ogonek. If both creaky voice and stress are present, a caron is used. In cases of diphthongs, the ogonek applies to the first letter, whereas the caron is "spread out" over both letters (e.g., /e̤ə̤/ 〈èǝ́〉).

Vowel harmony, organized by height, exists in this language (/a(ə̯) e(ə̯) o/ vs. /ə i(ə̯) u/). Typically the vowels in the root determine the vowels present in the affixes (although dialectally, the qualifier suffixes can override this and determine the vowel harmony if they are present). For the sake of consistency, affixes in the citation form will typically be presented as part of the higher pair of vowels.

Sample minimal pairs:

’ǝ́sc’əd "harm" vs. ’ǝsc’ǝ́d "debate"
waən "strike with a closed fist" vs. wąən "boil sth."
dóƛ’ąs "slay" vs. doƛ’ǎs "stand (intransitive)" vs. dǫƛ’ás "kind of caffeinated beverage"

In general syllable structure is C(y/w)V(y/w)(C), though all words obligatorily end with a consonant.

The verb

The verb in Kgáweqʼ is highly marked; the verb template is typically as follows:

preverb - success - subject - version - object - TAM - root - qualifier

The preverb
Preverbs are typically directional or concerning the manner in which something is done. Up to two preverbs may be combined, though this process is not often used. Typical morphophonemic alternations apply in this instance.

kį- up(wards)
sə- down(wards)
ni- along an incline
‘iə- in a circular motion, around and around
səd- randomly
qʼul- haphazardly
ƛį- lackadaisical, carelessly
ru- side-to-side, to-and-fro
gin- up-and-down
qgə̨s- (towards) here
dəc-/daəc- away (from)
ʼis- from place to place
gu- between
sil- along a path
də̨t- along an edge
cų- within, inside
ʼiəc- outside
gǝ̨r- downstream, away from relevant party/parties
łiʼ- upstream, towards relevant party/parties

The differences in the semantics of səd-, qʼul-, and ƛį- are hard for me to explain, but I'll try anyway. sǝd- most often gets used for processes that are apparently purely random from a probabilistic standpoint (it's the go-to affix in scientific and technical papers, for instance). qʼul- might be used to describe the actions of something getting blown about in the wind, tumbling down a cliff, or generally going about in an unpredictable manner while still being generally localized; a weak implication of danger may be present. ƛį- is much like qʼur-, although it implies that some agent is not exercising due diligence with respect to an action, and almost always connotes some sort of danger, hazard, and/or negative judgment.

ƛin-ir-iǝn-ə-déwįt’? "Were you just strutting around all willy-nilly?"

The secondary meanings of the downstream and upstream suffixes are based in cultural metaphors relating to the speaker's homeland—the farther downriver you went, the further you were going from the home territories, and vice versa. They can be applied to any relevant party, as long as it is understood from context (e.g., talking over a phone, one might say something is "upstream" or "downstream" from one of the participants in the conversation, or from some third party being referenced).

The success affix
Kgáweqʼ verbs also optionally inflect with an affix detailing how successfully the action was carried out. It can also connote conative or evidential force.

-wuʼ- success
-g- accidental success
-kʼ- barely
-t- partial success
-si- almost success
-ə̨- failure
-(ʼ)s- catastrophic failure
-ƛ- conative, unknown outcome

If -ə̨- follows one of a e i, it forms the second part of a diphthong (ignoring vowel harmony rules if following a or e) and creaky-voices it; otherwise, an epenthetic w is inserted before the vowel, which obeys vowel harmony rules and does not spread the creaky voice. -ƛ- is essentially a bare conative, with the speaker unsure of whether the agent was successful or not.

wuʼ-ąd-yon-ęǝ-kʼ-ƛʼáʼas "he (successfully) threw it"
g-ąd-yon-ęǝ-kʼ-ƛʼáʼas "he accidentally threw it"
ąw-ąd-yon-ęǝ-kʼ-ƛʼáʼas "he tried (and failed) to throw it"
ƛ-ąd-yon-ęǝ-kʼ-ƛʼáʼas "he tried to throw it (but I don't know how it turned out)"

The subject
This is pretty straightforward.

-ə- 1SG
-ir- 2SG
-ǝ̨d- 3SG animate
-ųr- 3SG inanimate
-əc- 1DL
-ųq- 2DL
-yus- 3DL
-įʼ- 1PL
-ų- 2PL
-ug- 3PL animate
-səʼ- 3PL inanimate
-iər- relative

Version
-l- subjective version
-iqʼ- objective version: first-person
-iqr- objective version: second-person
-iqn- objective version: third-person animate
-iqs- objective version: third-person inanimate
-iəq- objective version: relative
-n- oblique version
-ǝ̨ł- inversion
-uʼ- causative version: first-person
-ur- causative version: second-person
-un- causative version: third-person animate
-us- causative version: third-person inanimate
-uyə- causative version: relative

Subjective version typically functions much as an autobenefactive or reflexive; objective version markers typically serve as benefactives or otherwise indicate an argument that is in some way affected by the action. If a direct object is present, the use of objective version often implies some sort of connection between the party signified by the objective-version marker and the direct object. Oblique version often serves an instrumental purpose and often has an anaphor later on in the phrase.

ʼer-Ø-yon-ęǝ-t-ƛówas sǝ̨gút "you boiled some porridge"
ʼer-l-yon-ęǝ-t-ƛówas sǝ̨gút "you boiled yourself some porridge"; "you boiled some porridge for yourself"
ʼer-eqʼ-yon-ęǝ-t-ƛówas sǝ̨gút "you boiled my porridge"; "you boiled porridge for me"

Inversion is essentially a passive, promoting the direct object to a subject and demoting the agent to the indirect object.

ʼor-ǝ̨ł-yon-ęǝ-t-ƛówas sǝ̨gút "porridge was boiled"

Causative version turns the verb into a causative, with the signified party in the affix being the party caused to do something.

ʼer--yon-ęǝ-t-ƛówas sǝ̨gút "you made me boil the porridge"
ƛin-ir-sy-u-cʼǝ́c "you almost make me stagger around dizzily" (cəc "walk")
ƛen-er--yų-ƛʼáʼas "you (sg.) make me throw it"

You can tell I read Olga Gurevich's paper "Steal Me an Apple: Version in Georgian" to look up how version works, right?

The object
The object slot of the verb can take either a pronominal affix or an incorporated noun. Incorporated nouns are more commonly used for what would be the head of a genitive phrase, especially for something possessed by an animate possessor; in these cases the possessor noun appears in object position in the sentence.

-əg- 1P
-rus- 2P
-wį- 3P animate
-yų- 3P inanimate
-iə- relative

ʼer--ƛʼáʼas "what you throw, thing that you throw"

TAM
Kgáweqʼ TAM is comprised of two tenses (past and nonpast), four aspects (momentane, continuative, imperfective, and perfective), and four moods (indicative, subjunctive, interrogative, and imperative).

As for imperatives:

-sə- imperative momentane ("do X once")
-si- imperative continuative ("keep doing X")
-ʼəs- normal imperative ("do X")

The subject argument can be omitted from the imperative unless emphasis or differentiation (e.g., commanding one person to do one thing and a group to do another) is desired or required.

yǫ-sa-ƛʼáʼas "throw it once!"
yǫ-se-ƛʼáʼas "keep throwing it!"
l-yǫ-ʼəs-ƛʼáʼas "throw it!" (general, e.g. in discourse on games involving throwing something—note the subjective version in this case, being that one would participate in the game for one's own amusement)

Default marking for nonpast tense, imperfective aspect, and indicative mood is zero. The past tense has a vowel affix -įǝ- past tense. The aspectual/modal affix follows:

-kgə- momentane interrogative
-‘ə- continuative interrogative
-ə- imperfective interrogative
-ƛʼə- perfective interrogative
-ku- momentane subjunctive
-gu- continuative subjunctive
-u- imperfective subjunctive
-tʼu- perfective subjunctive
-kʼ- momentane indicative
-k- continuative indicative
-Ø- imperfective indicative
-t- perfective indicative

The root
Roots are typically disyllables, although it is not uncommon for native roots to have one or three syllables. Some roots have a final vowel which only surfaces if a qualifier suffix see below) is present.

The qualifier
The qualifier affix serves as an augmentative or diminutive to some argument in the phrase. It is not obligatory. If a verb root has a vowel

-luq augments subject, object neutral
-įq diminishes subject, object neutral
-ləw augments object, subject neutral
-iw diminishes object, subject neutral
-dəʼ/-daəʼ augments subject, diminishes object
-ǝ̨l diminishes subject, augments object
-ųg augments both subject and object
-tug diminishes both subject and object

Phonological processes
The following phonological processes happen in verb affixes:
  • If a word would begin with a vowel, a glottal stop is prepended.
  • If a glottal stop and a voiceless stop or affricate come into contact, said stop or affricate becomes ejective. If a glottal stop and a voiced stop come into contact, the glottal stop is dropped.
  • Voiceless stops plus /l/ become affricates (except for /ʔl/ sequences which become [ɬ]). /dl gl/ become [ɾ ʕ]; underlyingly /ʕl/ sequences drop the /ʕ/.
  • In |VNC| sequences, the vowel typically becomes creaky-voiced and the nasal drops out.
  • If two vowels are in hiatus and there is no default epenthetic consonant, one of the following occurs: If the first vowel is creaky-voiced, it loses its creaky voice and an [n] is inserted; if neither is creaky-voiced, an epenthetic /w/ is inserted if both vowels are central; if the unstressed vowel is central and the stressed one is not, a glide homorganic to the stressed vowel is inserted; if neither vowel is central, the vowel that would be unstressed (counting backward from the root) turns into a glide and stress otherwise proceeds as normal.
  • Remaining illegal clusters are broken up with an epenthetic central vowel.
Loanwords involving clusters with /l/ have by and large phonemicized the affricates and lateral obstruent as distinct from plosive-/l/ clusters, at least in roots and unanalyzable forms.

Now I have to think about how to handle nouns, connectives, and derivational morphology…
Last edited by Linguifex on 17 Sep 2015 04:25, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by Yačay256 » 15 Sep 2013 05:48

Hi and welcome to the board!

You have a fine conlang here my friend. This is the first register language I have yet seen on this board, IIRC. You mentioned "a South African lang" in your post: Is yours a Khoisan-based conlang?

Keep up the good work!
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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by gach » 15 Sep 2013 09:36

Linguifex wrote:The object
The object slot of the verb can take either a pronominal affix or an incorporated noun. Incorporated nouns are more commonly used for what would be the head of a genitive phrase, especially for something possessed by an animate possessor; in these cases the possessor noun appears in object position in the sentence.

-əg- 1P
-rus- 2P
-wį- 3P animate
-yų- 3P inanimate
-iə- relative

ʼer--ƛʼáʼas "what you throw, thing that you throw"
Could you elaborate a bit more the syntax of the "relative object" affix, or in other words where and how is it used? I'd especially like to see examples that demonstrate its contrast with the 3rd person object affixes. It's a nice idea, if you are really using special object marking to form relative clauses.

I guess this second question might be a bit more mundane, but what is the subjunctive marking used for in the language? My guess is that you are referring to an irreal mood concentrated to subordinate clauses, but what counts as irreal tends to be very language specific and always needs a bit of clarification.
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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by Click » 15 Sep 2013 10:14

Good work. Now go back to Teyetáti.

The causative version is used for subjects of causative verbs as in She made him cry, right?
I can imagine the relative affixes being productively used for nominalising agent nouns and patient nouns.
Yačay256 wrote:You have a fine conlang here my friend. This is the first register language I have yet seen on this board, IIRC. You mentioned "a South African lang" in your post: Is yours a Khoisan-based conlang?

Keep up the good work!
Frankly, I have no idea how did you make the leap from Linguifex saying that the convention for dorsal affricates was based on romanizations of a South African language to asking if the conlang is Khoisan based. EDIT: I hope this is not insulting.
As for the registers, an early version of Kaıpó had a simple register-tone system.
Linguifex wrote:My conpeople paint others with a wide brush just like humans do: The Kgáweqʼ are often stereotyped as hyperintelligent, sometimes insufferable folk who pay great attention to detail.
A nation of stereotypical INTPs... ...or what many people where I live think about Japan.
crazy crazy

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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by Linguifex » 27 Sep 2013 06:33

Yačay256 wrote:Hi and welcome to the board!
Thank you!
This is the first register language I have yet seen on this board, IIRC.
How do you mean? Like, with the creaky-voice contrast?
Yačay256 wrote:You mentioned "a South African lang" in your post: Is yours a Khoisan-based conlang?
No, just took inspiration from the orthography.
gach wrote:Could you elaborate a bit more the syntax of the "relative object" affix, or in other words where and how is it used? I'd especially like to see examples that demonstrate its contrast with the 3rd person object affixes. It's a nice idea, if you are really using special object marking to form relative clauses.
The relative affix is typically used in subordinate clauses; a verb with this affix will generally immediately succeed the modified noun, with the function of the relative affix (subject or object) informing the semantics of the phrase. I have a couple of (probably not very good) examples in the body of the post below. Related to that, the relative often gets used in constructions that would be expressed using a copula in English, due to the way Kgáweqʼ handles copular constructions. I'd like to give more examples about that soon.
Click wrote:Good work. Now go back to Teyetáti.
Teyetáti does indeed hold a special place in my heart. The lexicon file also holds a bunch of letters that should have underdots but don't and probably a ton of other mistakes that I've yet to fix…
The causative version is used for subjects of causative verbs as in She made him cry, right?
Right.
I can imagine the relative affixes being productively used for nominalising agent nouns and patient nouns.
In the…smiley…of Lao Kou: [tick]
Linguifex wrote:My conpeople paint others with a wide brush just like humans do: The Kgáweqʼ are often stereotyped as hyperintelligent, sometimes insufferable folk who pay great attention to detail.
A nation of stereotypical INTPs... ...or what many people where I live think about Japan.
crazy crazy
I was indeed more or less going for a counterpart to the Asian stereotype.

The nominal template in Kgáweqʼ is generally as follows:

possession - case - number - root

Possession
Nouns in Kgáweqʼ can be marked as being possessed; these prefixes are by and large identical to the subject prefixes for the verb.

ʼə- 1SG
ʼir- 2SG
ʼǝ̨d- 3SG animate
ʼųr- 3SG inanimate
ʼəc- 1DL
ʼųq- 2DL
yus- 3DL
ʼįʼ- 1PL
ʼų- 2PL
ʼug- 3PL animate
səʼ- 3PL inanimate

Kin (incidentally, these guys use Omaha kinship) and body parts are inalienably possessed. To discuss these things in general, third-person plural animate possessors are used.

Case
There are many cases in Kgáweqʼ; however, they are mostly spatiotemporal in nature. Word order generally serves to identify subjects and direct objects; generally the word order is SVO.

Locative cases:
-lu- elative
-qgi- inessive
-s- illative
-q- perlative
-įs- delative
-nǝ- superessive
-tʼ- sublative
-ʼu- vialis
-kʼi- ablative (locative sense)
-ƛik- prosecutive

Grammatical cases:
-ƛis- dative
-qʼ- possessor
-tʼǝq- distributive
-ʼ- distributive-temporal
-kgiqʼ- partitive
-r- instrumental
-sig- oblique

The partitive gets used when numbers or amounts are specified.

ƛʼíqgʼudįʼ kgiqʼ-tʼúcʼ "five tucʼes" (a tucʼ is a kind of plant that's often kept around the house as a decoration or cultured in a garden)

Number
The singular number is unmarked. The dual affix is -(ə)c-; following a vowel, the plural affix is -n- when prevocalic and creaky voice on the preceding vowel otherwise. If the plural would be between consonants, it takes the form -ǝ̨-, unless the preceding consonant is the glottal stop (except if, by a morphophonological, process, it causes an ejective to form) or r, in which case these drop, or if it occurs between glides.

Root
The root goes here.

Morphophonemic processes
In general, the same phonological processes that apply to verbs apply to nouns. Recent loans can throw a spanner in the works, especially when dealing with |n| and /l/.

Some miscellaneous notes…

Using augmentatives/diminutives on non-subjects/non-objects
You may or may not be wondering about how one augments or diminishes a non-core argument. (If you weren't, I don't blame you. I didn't until a couple of minutes ago as of writing this.) What happens is a relative clause is used with the appropriate augment/dimunition suffix.

dęʼ tʼaq-séqʼnaq ʼiǝ-ʼas-qós-iw
one PARTITIVE-house REL-IMP-see-DIM.OBJ
"one per small house"

dęʼ ʼiǝ-ʼas-qós-iw tʼaq-séqʼnaq
one REL-IMP-see-DIM.OBJ PARTITIVE-house
"one small one per house"

Speaking of "be"…
As illustrated above, there is no copula per se in Kgáweqʼ. Instead what is used is an imperative (it uses an old verb that used to mean "to see" but which has become fossilized in this expression) with a relative clause designating the appropriate characteristics.

Verbal negation
I completely forgot to give a negative morpheme in the last post…fail. Let's call it ƛoʼ- and say it goes at the front of everything there.

Derivational morphology
I'm not entirely sure what I'm going to do with derivational morphology. It was suggested on the CBB (and I like the idea) of using the relative affixes productively for agents and patients of verbs. I'd also like to have a "time of X" or "time of doing X" prefix à la Hixkaryana. Aside from that, I haven't really decided yet.

Numbers
Janko contacted me and now Kgáweqʼ has numbers. Like most other languages in this setting it counts in base six.

1 – dęʼ
2 – ʼuʼ
3 – łúnǝł
4 – qʼaƛ
5 – ƛʼíqgʼudįʼ
6 – ƛʼiqʼ
7 – dęƛʼíqʼ
8 – ʼuƛʼíqʼ
9 – łunǝłƛʼíqʼ
10 – qʼǝƛuƛʼíqʼ
11 – ƛʼíqʼǝʼułudįʼ
12 – ƛ'iqʼǝʼuʼ

The term for "five" (and "eleven" for a similar reason) have been affected by taboo deformation; a loose translation of the construction for "five" is "six less one".
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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by gach » 27 Sep 2013 12:38

I'm going to be very predictable now, but having a description of what each of your cases is used for with one or two accompanying examples would be absolutely necessary to get an idea of the system. You give one example of the use of the partitive, but I doubt this is the primary use of that case.

Also the "oblique" case remains pretty mysterious since your system already has loads of other cases which seem to mark specific oblique relations, most notably the local cases. One interesting idea that comes to my mind would be to have a semantically bleached general oblique that gets its exact meaning from adverbs and adpositions or the verb of the sentence, but this would most likely be marked by an ancient morpheme with a simpler phonetic structure than your "oblique" case.

The last point I was wondering about the case system is the contrast between perlative, vialis and prosecutive. As far as I have encountered, these are just different names used in different languages or grammatical descriptions for roughly the equivalent things.
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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by Linguifex » 16 Nov 2013 00:01

gach wrote:I'm going to be very predictable now, but having a description of what each of your cases is used for with one or two accompanying examples would be absolutely necessary to get an idea of the system. You give one example of the use of the partitive, but I doubt this is the primary use of that case.
That's a fair statement. I'll have to cook up some examples then.
Also the "oblique" case remains pretty mysterious since your system already has loads of other cases which seem to mark specific oblique relations, most notably the local cases. One interesting idea that comes to my mind would be to have a semantically bleached general oblique that gets its exact meaning from adverbs and adpositions or the verb of the sentence, but this would most likely be marked by an ancient morpheme with a simpler phonetic structure than your "oblique" case.
I'm trying to remember why I included an oblique, but I'm failing. I might coöpt it into something that has to do with version.
The last point I was wondering about the case system is the contrast between perlative, vialis and prosecutive. As far as I have encountered, these are just different names used in different languages or grammatical descriptions for roughly the equivalent things.
Ah. In this language, you'd use the perlative for things like hallways or tunnels (or on occasion surreptitious movements), the vialis for places stopped at along the way (e.g., a gas station, a restaurant, a layover at an airport, someplace you stopped and asked for directions), and the prosecutive for things out in the open.

----

Anyway, on to conjunctions. In Kgáweqʼ there are two types of conjunctions, nominal and non-nominal. Non-nominal conjunctions are boring. Nominal conjunctions are interesting so I'll deal with those first.

To conjoin nouns in Kgáweqʼ one uses a special series of verbs, listed here in the o-state:

nęəc "and"
łoq(e) "or" (exclusive)
qgiʼ "or" (inclusive), "nor" (when used with a negated verb)
sątʼ(o) "except", "without"

These verbs are transitive and can take version or qualification affixes.

Below is a simple conjoined phrase.

sął ʼǫryǫněəc ʼiqʼ
sął ʼǫr-yǫ-něəc ʼiqʼ
air 3S.INAN.SUBJ-3S.INAN.OBJ-and water
air and water

To make this the subject of a sentence, the relative affix is employed, like so (for the sake of brevity I'm just going to gloss the verb as "and"):

sął ʼǫryǫněəc ʼiqʼ ʼiəciərəgwǔni‘
sął ʼǫryǫněəc ʼiqʼ ʼiəc-iər-əg-wǔni‘
air and water outside-REL-2P.OBJ-assemble
air and water surround us

More than two things use more conjunction verbs with a relative affix as the subject:

sął ʼǫryǫněəc ʼiqʼ ʼeəryǫněəc ƛus ʼeəryǫněəc dosaƛ’á’ ʼiəciərəgwǔni‘
air and water and fire and soil surround us

To denote conjoined objects one has a relative affix in object position on the main verb and then employs the required verb(s).
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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by Linguifex » 04 Jul 2015 07:34

I'd like to get y'all's opinions as to whether the below should be switched around or not. Currently, the noun-case prefix -r- is technically an instrumental, but in questions it has a slightly different meaning. It can be used to ask how something was done:

Kęǝdowaganét erƛéʼ?
kį-ǝ̨d-duwǝg-ǝ-net r-ƛeʼ
up-3SG.ANIM-hill-IMPF.INT-run INST-thing
How (by what means) did he run up the hill?

The question above implies an answer like "people giving him bottles of water as he ran up the hill". To get at an answer like "quickly", one has to use the oblique-version marker:

Kęǝdendowaganét erƛéʼ?
kį-ǝ̨d-n-duwǝg-ǝ-net r-ƛeʼ
up-3SG.ANIM-OBL.VERS-hill-IMPF.INT-run INST-thing
How (in what manner) did he run up the hill?
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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by Omzinesý » 04 Jul 2015 10:10

Which natlangs is your lang based on? It looks Caucasian. Nice ideas, the phono-morphology is fascinating.

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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by Linguifex » 05 Jul 2015 05:43

Omzinesý wrote:Which natlangs is your lang based on? It looks Caucasian. Nice ideas, the phono-morphology is fascinating.
Thank you. Actually, I think Salish (or maybe Athabaskan? Something Native American anyway) was more of an influence.
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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by plathhs » 05 Jul 2015 15:42

The q'ul- preverb. [<3]
So poetic.

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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by shimobaatar » 06 Jul 2015 00:31

This is fantastic; it's a shame I'm only seeing this thread for the first time now!
Linguifex wrote:I'd like to get y'all's opinions as to whether the below should be switched around or not. Currently, the noun-case prefix -r- is technically an instrumental, but in questions it has a slightly different meaning. It can be used to ask how something was done:

Kęǝdowaganét erƛéʼ?
kį-ǝ̨d-duwǝg-ǝ-net r-ƛeʼ
up-3SG.ANIM-hill-IMPF.INT-run INST-thing
How (by what means) did he run up the hill?

The question above implies an answer like "people giving him bottles of water as he ran up the hill". To get at an answer like "quickly", one has to use the oblique-version marker:

Kęǝdendowaganét erƛéʼ?
kį-ǝ̨d-n-duwǝg-ǝ-net r-ƛeʼ
up-3SG.ANIM-OBL.VERS-hill-IMPF.INT-run INST-thing
How (in what manner) did he run up the hill?
Well, I've never really heard "version" used as a grammatical category before, so I'm not really sure how the oblique version would normally function, but my opinion would be to keep things the way they are in these two examples, mainly because the first sentence only marks the instrumental part of the question on the noun, and gets a more nominal answer (at least in my opinion), while the second sentence also marks the instrumental part of the question on the verb, and gets an adverb as an answer. Anyway, that probably doesn't make sense, but that was my first thought upon reading this.

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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by Linguifex » 15 Sep 2015 03:10

Some kinship terminology

-t’áget father, paternal uncle
-wótet mother, maternal aunt, female cross cousin on the maternal side
-sǝn son
-wámek daughter
-kg’ot brother, male parallel cousin
-sadák sister, female parallel cousin
-ǒ’węs maternal uncle
-lisdǝ́n paternal aunt
-dǔwǝg nephew, male cross cousin on the father's side
-wáqa’ niece, female cross cousin on the father's side
-nęt husband
-wo’ wife
-soqg maternal aunt's husband
-werés paternal uncle's wife
-so’ father-in-law
-’áda’ mother-in-law

Note that these terms are inalienably possessed, so you get forms like ʼakg’ót "my brother or male parallel cousin".
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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by shimobaatar » 15 Sep 2015 07:28

Cool! Sorry if I'm missing something, but how would you say "male cross cousin on the maternal side", "paternal aunt's husband", and "maternal uncle's wife"? I assume there aren't dedicated words for those relations? Would there be dedicated words for other "in-laws" or grandparents?

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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by Linguifex » 15 Sep 2015 21:39

shimobaatar wrote:Cool! Sorry if I'm missing something, but how would you say "male cross cousin on the maternal side", "paternal aunt's husband", and "maternal uncle's wife"? I assume there aren't dedicated words for those relations? Would there be dedicated words for other "in-laws" or grandparents?
I'm not sure. I'm still a bit confused by the Omaha kinship system. There probably should at least be words for grandparents, though.

Causative version

Causative version adds an argument to the verb and changes the verb to mean that someone caused someone else to do something.

ʼeryonęǝtƛówas sǝ̨gút "you boiled some porridge"
ʼeryonęǝtƛówas sǝ̨gút "you made me boil the porridge"

One can add another argument in the dative to show that one was made to do something to or for someone else, but this is not necessary if the verb itself does not already have another direct object if that makes sense:

ʼeroʼyonęǝtƛówas sǝ̨gút ʼirƛisdǔwǝg "you made me boil porridge for your nephew"
ʼeroʼwęnęǝtwáən ʼirdǔwǝg "you made me strike your nephew with a closed fist"

Pronouns

ʼən 1SG
ʼir 2SG
ʼǝ̨d 3SG animate
ʼǔrut 3SG inanimate
ʼə́ctin 1DL
ʼǔqtin 2DL
yusʼúʼ 3DL
ʼįʼ 1PL
ʼųʼúʼ 2PL
ʼug 3PL animate
səʼ 3PL inanimate

A few new words

saeərąłnáqęq
sa-eər-ął-náq-ęq
down-REL-INV-press-DIM.S
"button" ("small thing that is pressed down")

go<>’atáǝ’
go<affixes>’atáǝ’
between<affixes>speak
"interrupt (speech)"
ƛoʼgoƛądagkʼatáǝ’loq ʼakg’ót ʼən "my older brother did not try to interrupt me" (note how the preverb "between" is used despite only a single referent in object position)

‘iəiərlǝkcǝc
‘iə-iər-l-k-cǝc
circular.motion-REL-SUBJ.VER-CONT.IND-go.by.foot
"centrifuge" ("something that keeps going by itself in a circular motion")

‘iəiərkǝcǝc
‘iə-iər-k-cǝc
circular.motion-REL-CONT.IND-go.by.foot
"gyroscope" ("something that keeps going in a circular motion")
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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by Linguifex » 16 Sep 2015 05:09

The Seven Kill Stele in Kgáweq’:

Nádał saʼyǫnac’ǎƛluq niərwǐtǝq səʼnwįktʼə́ruʼ ʼądón.
ʼĄdón ƛo’ogyǫnac’ǎƛ daəcogeqseətóʼ ƛesnádał.
Seq’ǒ’. Seq’ǒ’. Seq’ǒ’. Seq’ǒ’. Seq’ǒ’. Seq’ǒ’. Seq’ǒ’.


N-ádał saʼ-yǫ-nac’ǎƛ-luq n-iər-wǐtǝq səʼ-n-wį-k-tʼə́ruʼ ʼą-don.
PL-cloud 3P.INAN-3.INAN-have-AUG.S PL-REL-be.numerous 3P.INAN-OBL.VERS-3P.AN-nurture PL-person

ʼĄ-don ƛo’-og-yǫ-nac’ǎƛ daəc-og-eqs-eə-tóʼ ƛes-n-ádał.
PL-person NEG-3P-AN-3.INAN-have away-3P.AN-OBJ.VERS.3.INAN-REL-give DAT-PL-cloud

Se-q’ǒ’. Se-q’ǒ’. Se-q’ǒ’. Se-q’ǒ’. Se-q’ǒ’. Se-q’ǒ’. Se-q’ǒ’.
IMP.CONT-kill IMP.CONT-kill IMP.CONT-kill IMP.CONT-kill IMP.CONT-kill IMP.CONT-kill IMP.CONT-kill
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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by Linguifex » 27 Oct 2015 06:48

So color terms in Kgáweqʼ are transitive verbs. Also, I'm trying something new with the orthography.

ʕóstoɁ white
Ɂǫdáq red
qǒʕ yellow
ƛál green
kgǐsǝt blue, black

The verb can be interpreted as "having an X-colored Y" and these verbs can take incorporated nouns.

ɁądnéyrƛeɁǫdáq
Ɂąd-néyrƛeɁ-Ɂǫdáq
3SG.ANIM.SBJ-precious.stone-red
"he has a ruby"

To say that an object itself is a certain color, one can either use the inversion marker or use the appropriate prefix with the subjective-version marker; which method is used varies depending on the speaker and dialect:

Ɂądąłkgiłiqǒʕ
Ɂąd-ął-kgiłiq-qǒʕ
3SG.ANIM.SBJ-INV-animal-yellow
"the animal is yellow"

Ɂądlakgiłiqǒʕ
Ɂąd-l-kgiłiq-qǒʕ
3SG.ANIM.SBJ-SBJ.VER-animal-yellow
"the animal is yellow"

One can also use similar verbs without an incorporated object to say that some object obvious from context is a certain color:

Ɂǫrąłƛál
ǫr-ął-ƛál
3SG.INAN.SBJ-INV-green
"it is green" Star Trek reference!

Ɂǫrlaƛál
ǫr-l-ƛál
3SG.INAN.SBJ-SBJ.VER-green
"it is green"

Using the success affix with this verb instead denotes how much of that color an object is. Color verbs can only be used with the success affixes shown below. Either of the above-mentioned methods (inversion or subjective version) can be used with the success affix, though for my ease of writing this post only the subjective version will be used in the examples:

woɁǫrlaƛál
woɁ-ǫr-l-ƛál
success-3SG.INAN.SBJ-SBJ.VER-green
"all of it is green"

tǫrlaƛál
t-ǫr-l-ƛál
partial.success-3SG.INAN.SBJ-SBJ.VER-green
"some of it is green"

kʼǫrlaƛál
kʼ-ǫr-l-ƛál
barely-3SG.INAN.SBJ-SBJ.VER-green
"only a little of it is green"

Ɂanǫrlaƛál
ą-ǫr-l-ƛál
failure-3SG.INAN.SBJ-SBJ.VER-green
"it isn't green"

sǫrlaƛál
s-ǫr-l-ƛál
catastrophic.failure-3SG.INAN.SBJ-SBJ.VER-green
"it isn't green at all"

The Seven Kill Stele in the redone orthography:

Nádał saɁyǫnac’ǎƛluq niərwǐtǝq səɁnwįktʼə́ruɁ Ɂądón.
Ɂądón ƛoɁogyǫnac’ǎƛ daəcogeqseətóɁ ƛesnádał.
SeqʼǒɁ. SeqʼǒɁ. SeqʼǒɁ. SeqʼǒɁ. SeqʼǒɁ. SeqʼǒɁ. SeqʼǒɁ.
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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by CMunk » 27 Oct 2015 15:03

This is only a very minor thing, but you have chosen to write your glottal stop as <Ɂ> (U+0241), which is the capital version of <ɂ> (U+0242). If you want to use that letter, it is fine, but you should be aware that it is a capital letter and there is a lower case variant. The IPA's glottal stop is <ʔ> (U+0294), which is also used in some orthographies, I think. In any case, that would match better with your use of <ʕ>.

(Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glottal_stop_%28letter%29)
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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by opipik » 27 Oct 2015 21:42

CMunk wrote:This is only a very minor thing, but you have chosen to write your glottal stop as <Ɂ> (U+0241), which is the capital version of <ɂ> (U+0242). If you want to use that letter, it is fine, but you should be aware that it is a capital letter and there is a lower case variant. The IPA's glottal stop is <ʔ> (U+0294), which is also used in some orthographies, I think. In any case, that would match better with your use of <ʕ>.

(Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glottal_stop_%28letter%29)
[+1]

(Yes, I hate when someone uses Ɂ instead of ʔ.)

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Re: Kgáweqʼ

Post by shimobaatar » 31 Oct 2015 22:03

Linguifex wrote: The verb can be interpreted as "having an X-colored Y" and these verbs can take incorporated nouns.
Linguifex wrote: To say that an object itself is a certain color, one can either use the inversion marker or use the appropriate prefix with the subjective-version marker; which method is used varies depending on the speaker and dialect:
Linguifex wrote: One can also use similar verbs without an incorporated object to say that some object obvious from context is a certain color:
Linguifex wrote: Using the success affix with this verb instead denotes how much of that color an object is. Color verbs can only be used with the success affixes shown below. Either of the above-mentioned methods (inversion or subjective version) can be used with the success affix, though for my ease of writing this post only the subjective version will be used in the examples:
[+1] I really like this. Very interesting and creative.

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