PreProtoPaleoCaspian A

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hadad
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PreProtoPaleoCaspian A

Post by hadad » 16 Sep 2013 00:05

Spoken at around 5500-5000 BCE by a group of hunter gatherers in southwestern Siberia. Their language appears to be related to, or have borrowed from, ProtoAmerind and Nostratic, most likely a distant cousin.

Phonology
Consonants
(m) m, (n) n, (ŋ), (p) p, b (b), (w) w, (t) t, (d) d, (s) s, (x) x, (t͡s) ts, (l) l, (ɻ) r, (j) y, and (ʔ) '

Vowels
(a) a, (æ) ae, (e) e, (i) i, (o) o, (u) u

Nouns and Pronouns

Word order

Patient Verb Agent - was used for interrogative and precative sentances.
Agent Verb Patient - was used for Indicatives, and most other sentances.
Verb Agent Patient - was also used for interrogative and precative sentances, though less frequently, as reflected in its seldom use in daughter languages. Though Verb Agent word order was used for interrogatives and precatives, when a patient wasn't included in a sentance.
Agent Patient Verb - A rare construction used for Indicatives and other sentances.

When you have 2 agents, or 2 patients in a sentance, the word order defaults to a subject object pattern for interrogatives and precatives, and object subject for indicatives and most other sentances.

Class and Number
Animate Singular -nu-
Animate Plural - nae-
Inanimate Singular -tu-
Inanimate Plural -tae-

Case Endings
Ergative -re
Nominative -∅
Vocative -∅
Objective/SemiOblique -ne (usually only used on pronouns)
Instrumental -te

Modal (and Voice) Prefixes
Prohibitive mae-
Causative se-
Desiderative sa-
Hortative pa-
Adjutative ke-
Reciprocal te-

Pronominal Roots/stems
Singular
1st - mi
2nd - si
3rd - ko
Plural
1st - minae
2nd - sinae
3rd - kinae

Verbs

Tense & Aspect Suffices
Future -ta-
Present -se-
Past -na-
Continuous -ya-
Completed -ke-

Personal Endings (Subjective)
Singular
1st -mi
2nd -ti
3rd -di
Plural
1st -mina
2nd -tina
3rd -dina

Numbers
No, none, not - ku
One, finger - tek
many - na
two - we/wa
two, two fingers - tuk

*The differences in conjugation between tek and tuk, go back to a yet earlier yet reconstructed language, in which apparently has -e- for singular, -u- for dual, and -a- for plural. Or perhaps, a variation of some sort on this pattern.

Some items from its Reconstructable Lexicon
man - male relative
nan - female relative
nen - language, tongue

*In the same earlier not yet reconstructed protolang, it had a system of 2 genders:
m-,p-, w-, t-,k-,x-,'-, and l- were used as masculine, and
n-, b-, y-, d-, g-, s-, and ts- were used as feminine.
Considering the word for tongue/language /nen/, the feminine could've also been used for the Inanimate/other.

These apparently went in pairs:
m-n
p-b
t-d
k-g
x-s
'-ts
w-y

Hence, /man/ and /nan/

Though this proto stage is still not yet confidently reconstructed, and won't be in the near future reconstructable.
Last edited by hadad on 26 Sep 2013 03:46, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: PreProtoPaleoCaspian A

Post by hadad » 16 Sep 2013 00:14

Some sentances in translation

The bull knows good land.

takw-ya-di tsom-nu-∅ tang-yets-tae-ne

Takwyadi tsomnu tangyetstaene.


yets - good
Earth, earth, ground, land, dirt, sand - tang
(to) know - takw
Bull, cow, aurochs - tsom

When there are instances where two nouns take a "patient" role or an agent role "Me and you went", the subject goes first, and then followed by the 1st person if pronouns are included.
Adjectives are suffixed onto the nouns, before you'd add the Gender and Number suffix.
With statives, infinitives, general, and habitual verbs, you'd just use a continuous suffix, without a case suffix.
For uncountable nouns such as land, water, etc.. may only take the plural.

This sentance is also good for explaining stress rules for this stage of the language. From later evidence, it seems like there is a tendacy to put stress on the second syllable containing a vowel.

Takwyādi tsomnū tangyētstaene.




Also, sometimes the singular suffix is used for a plural noun, in which case, the singular acts as a neutral number suffix:

tsomnu - one cow/bull/aurochs
tsomnae -cows/bulls/aurochs
tsomnu tuk/we/wa - 2 aurochs

That is because a numerical particle is used instead.
Last edited by hadad on 16 Sep 2013 15:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Click
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Re: PreProtoPaleoCaspian A

Post by Click » 16 Sep 2013 13:24

hadad wrote:Spoken at around 5500-5000 BCE by a group of hunter gatherers in southwestern Siberia. Their language appears to be related to, or have borrowed from, ProtoAmerind and Nostratic, most likely a distant cousin.
Proto-Nostratic was spoken earlier than 5500 BCE if it existed at all, and Proto-Amerind would be at least 5000 years earlier than your conlang if it could ever be proven.

hadad
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Re: PreProtoPaleoCaspian A

Post by hadad » 16 Sep 2013 15:08

Click wrote:
hadad wrote:Spoken at around 5500-5000 BCE by a group of hunter gatherers in southwestern Siberia. Their language appears to be related to, or have borrowed from, ProtoAmerind and Nostratic, most likely a distant cousin.
Proto-Nostratic was spoken earlier than 5500 BCE if it existed at all, and Proto-Amerind would be at least 5000 years earlier than your conlang if it could ever be proven.
That doesn't mean anything, it could've always been from an ancestor to PPPCA. Either way, I don't accept either proposals as valid in their present form. I'm just using it for my conworld.
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Re: PreProtoPaleoCaspian A

Post by hadad » 26 Sep 2013 02:34

Adjectives, when not attached to nouns as a suffix, also function as verbal roots. For instance, "good" yets, is also "(to do) good". Here is basically the inflectional layout for verbs:

yets "good"
yets-ya "doing good" Used as an stem to form adverbs, as well as continuous verbs. "goodly/good" (never as the adjective good)
yets-ke "did good" Used as a stem to form nouns, as well as completed verbs. "the good"

Infinitives, Habituals, and General verbs can be formed by using a tense suffix, without a reference to whether or not an action is continuous or completed:
yets-ta to do good (in the future)
yets-se to do good (now/in the present time)
yets-na to have done good (in the past)

For statives, or if you don't want to reference a time with an infinitive/habitual/general verb, you could also use the continuous suffix:
yets-ya to do good/to be good

Continuous verbs:
yets-ya-ta-di (Future Progressive) He will be doing good.
yets-ya-se-di (Present Progressive) He's doing good.
yets-ya-na-di (Past Progressive) He was doing good.
yets-ke-ta-di (Future Perfect) He will have done good.
yets-ke-se-di (Perfect) He did good.
yets-ke-na-di (Pluperfect) He had done good.
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Re: PreProtoPaleoCaspian A

Post by hadad » 26 Sep 2013 03:30

Just for a little more on word order and some of the verbal weirdness.

man - man/male relative/male band or tribal member.
takw, when there is neither an agent in the sentance, nor is one implied, the verb means "to know". When there is an agent in the sentance, or one is implied, the verb becomes "to learn (something)" or "to meet (someone/something)".

Mannure takwyasedi. - The man is meeting/learning.
Takwyasdi mannure. - Is the man meeting/learning?
Mannu takwyasedi. - Is the man known?
Takwyasedi mannu. - The man is known.

To ask if someone knows someone or something, you actually have to ask if someone has learned something or met someone.
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Re: PreProtoPaleoCaspian A

Post by hadad » 26 Sep 2013 03:45

In order to say that someone introduced someone to someone, you'd say that someone helped someone meet someone:

The man introduced the woman to him/The man helped the woman meet him.
Kemannure nannu takwyasedi.

The man introduced him to the woman/The man helped him meet the woman.
Kemannure takwyasedi nannu.

I gave 2 examples, because there are in this case, two patients, one takes on the role of a direct object (the second listed), and the other an indirect object (the first listed). The reason the verb and patient-noun are switched around, is because the verb in the first sentance contains the direct object, and in the second sentance, it contains the indirect object.
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eldin raigmore
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Re: PreProtoPaleoCaspian A

Post by eldin raigmore » 30 Sep 2013 19:43

Why is there a "Caspian" in the language's name?

hadad
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Re: PreProtoPaleoCaspian A

Post by hadad » 01 Oct 2013 14:08

eldin raigmore wrote:Why is there a "Caspian" in the language's name?
Because despite the earlier preproto part being spoken in southwestern siberia, nearly all the rest of the branches were centered around the Caspian Sea.
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