Proto-Sirdic (not quite a scratchpad any more?)

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Proto-Sirdic (not quite a scratchpad any more?)

Post by sangi39 » 27 Aug 2014 17:22

While the general order of this thread is set, a number of posts need updating in order to bring information regarding Proto-Sirdic in line with my latest sketches. A lot of these changes concern the nouns, but also some syntactic stuff as well

Proto-Sirdic

Introduction

Proto-Sirdic is the ancestral language of the Greater Sirdic languages, spoken on the planet Jantara (work in progress). It is generally accepted to have been spoken around 4000 BP (Before (our) Present) somewhere in western regions of the continent of Sirda.



Contents

Grammar

Nouns, Adjectives and Pronouns

Phonology
Morphophonology
Nominal Classes and Morphology
Case Usage
Adjectives
Pronouns


Verbs

Verbal Classes and Case Determination
Verbal Morphology
Verbal Derivation


Syntax

Syntax


Vocabulary

Nouns
Adjectives
Verbs
Numbers


Sound Changes

Sound Changes Leading to Classical Kusan
Sound Changes Leading to Old Inkas


Leaving this here so that Linguifex's question makes sense:
*pʲ *bʲ mʲ > *tʲ *dʲ *nʲ
A change that I had originally proposed in the development of Classical Kusan from Proto-Sirdic.
Last edited by sangi39 on 05 Dec 2014 14:34, edited 23 times in total.
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Re: Proto-Sirdic

Post by Linguifex » 27 Aug 2014 23:10

sangi39 wrote:*pʲ *bʲ mʲ > *tʲ *dʲ *nʲ
This is the only thing that really stuck out at me. Is this change attested anywhere?
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Re: Proto-Sirdic

Post by sangi39 » 27 Aug 2014 23:30

Linguifex wrote:
sangi39 wrote:*pʲ *bʲ mʲ > *tʲ *dʲ *nʲ
This is the only thing that really stuck out at me. Is this change attested anywhere?
Almost. Tsakonian Greek has [p] > [c] as the result of palatalisation alongside [t] > [c] and [k] > [tɕ] under the same circumstances. I assume you could expand it to include and [m] as well.

Lhasa Tibetan also has a similar set of changes, but here [pj] became [tɕ] while [kj] became [c] and similarly [bj gj] became [tɕ c] (with a difference in tone rather than voice) and nicely [mj] becomes [ɲ].

Obviously those changes occurred not as a simple change in POA while retaining secondary articulation, but as affrication alongside a POA shift, which would probably be more realistic, on which case something more realistic might be:

*pʲ *bʲ mʲ > *c *ɟ *ɲ
*tʲ *dʲ *nʲ > *c *ɟ *ɲ
*kʲ *gʲ > *tɕ *dʑ

Either way, it doesn't really affect the later developments of the Post-Classical Kusan languages, but I think I let the conlang's "native" script get in the way of a more realistic set of changes [:P]
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Re: Proto-Sirdic

Post by shimobaatar » 30 Aug 2014 02:34

This looks good so far!

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Proto-Sirdic: Phonology

Post by sangi39 » 01 Sep 2014 15:47

Phonology


Consonants

T: *p *t *k <*p *t *k>
D: *b *d *g <*b *d *g>
N: *m *n <*m *n>
F: *s *ɬ *x *h <*s *ś *h *'>
G: *w *j <*w *j>
R: *r *l <*r *l>

<> was chosen on the basis that, in a number of branches, this particular sound became [ʃ], [ɕ] or similar sounds.
<*'> was chosen for *h on the basis that in the vast majority of branches it was lost in most positions. <*h> was chosen for the more stable *h


Vowels

*i *u <i u>
*e *o <e o>
*a <a>


Syllable Structure

CV(r/l/N/w/j/s/x/h/Q)...CV(r/l/m/n/w/j/s/x/h)

Where /Q/ represents a chroneme, i.e. geminates are permitted between vowels for all sounds.


Stress

Stress is placed on the initial syllable and on ever odd numbered syllable, except where that syllable happens to be the final syllable of the word. At this point, stress was likely either marked by volume or pitch.


Throughout the rest of this thread, the orthographic representation, rather than the phonemic representation, will be used.
Last edited by sangi39 on 18 Nov 2014 11:13, edited 7 times in total.
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Proto-Sirdic: Morphophonology

Post by sangi39 » 01 Sep 2014 21:44

Morphophonology


There are two main morphophonological processes involved in Proto-Sirdic, epenthesis and vowel contractions.



Epenthesis

When a consonant-initial morpheme occurs directly after a consonant-final morpheme in such a way that it would create an illegal consonant cluster, a vowel must be inserted to force the resulting underlying form to fall in line with Proto-Sirdic's phonotactics. This vowel can be one of *e and *o, but not *i*u or *a.

Which vowel is used is dependent upon the vowel in the preceding syllable:

1) Epenthetic *o is used when the preceding vowel is one of *u, *o or *a
2) Epenthetic *e is used when the preceding vowel is one of *i or *e

For example, if the suffix **-da is added to the nonce-stems **daru-, **tan- and **kip- then the resulting forms would be **daruda, **tanda and **kipeda. Since -n can appear as a syllable coda, and -da does not start with a consonant cluster, no epenthetic vowel is needed in **tan-da but such a vowel is needed after **kip-.



Vowel Contractions

Vowel contractions appear when a vowel-initial suffix follows a vowel-final morpheme.

Stage 1 changes occur when the vowel of the suffix appears in an open syllable:

Code: Select all

+-------+----------------+
|       |    S T E M     |
|       +----------------+
|       | i  u  e  o  a  |
+---+---+----------------+
| S | i | ij uj ej oj aj |
| U | u | iw uw ew ow aw |
| F | e | ij uj e  oj aj |
| F | o | iw uw ew o  aw |
|   | a | i' u' e' o' a' |
+---+---+----------------+

Stage 2 changes occur when the vowel of the suffix appears in a closed syllable:

Code: Select all

+-------+----------------+
|       |    S T E M     |
|       +----------------+
|       | i  u  e  o  a  |
+---+---+----------------+
| S | i | i  i  e  e  e  |
| U | u | u  u  o  o  o  |
| F | e | i  i  e  e  e  |
| F | o | u  u  o  o  o  |
|   | a | e  o  a  a  a  |
+---+---+----------------+

Alternations

There exists an alternation between /j w h/ and their vocalic counterparts /i u a/ which can effectively be stated as follows:

1) Where /j w h/ appear after a consonant which cannot appear syllable-finally (T or D from the phoneme inventory section above), then they shift to (these then undergo the alternations described above).
2) Where /j w h/ appear after one of the N, F, G or R set (barring ) and are not followed immediately by a vowel, they similarly shift to . However, if another vowel follows them, they remain [j w h]
3) Where /j w h/ appear after a vowel, they remain [j w h].

Alternation in the other direction, i.e. from underlying /i u a/ to [j w h], does not occur, except as the result of stage 1 vowel contractions mentioned above meaning that /i u a/ can only appear as [j w h] if they are the second vowel in a vowel sequence in an open syllable. If they are followed by another vowel, then an epenthetic /j w h/ is inserted as well, e.g. /aia/ > [ajja].
Last edited by sangi39 on 05 Dec 2014 13:27, edited 13 times in total.
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Proto-Sirdic: Nominal Morphology

Post by sangi39 » 01 Sep 2014 22:25

Nominal Morphology


Noun Classes

Nouns fall into six classes which are divided along lines of both gender (masculine, feminine and neuter) and animacy (animate and inanimate).

Animate nouns typically, as the name suggests, are those things with the ability to move of their own accord or which are usually in a state of motion whereas inanimate nouns are those things which move without (apparent) volition or are usually in a state of non-motion. Animate nouns also cover individual animals as opposed to groups of animals or individual animals which are normally found in groups and, possibly as the result of taboo, predators.

Nouns, when characterised by gender, are much more difficult to pin down in terms of the actual divide. Adult humans are easily classified as either masculine or feminine on the basis of their biological sex (although certain cultural aspects can confuse this divide), while young children are neuter. Similarly, animals like dogs, cats, horses and various other domesticates often have masculine, feminine and neuter forms along the same lines, although it is most often the case that one of the masculine or feminine words also covers the species as a whole.

Certain body parts are also assigned gender on the basis of their association with men and women while others are assigned seemingly randomly. For example, while the words form “penis” and “vagina” are masculine and feminine respectively, hands are feminine while fingers are masculine and the arms are neuter (with the same progression being true of the legs, feet and toes). The brain is also masculine while the eyes are feminine and the nose is neuter. There is likely some semantic reason behind such gender assignments, but a complete pattern has yet to be discerned. No body part, however, is both inanimate and neuter, at least not where human beings have such a body part (the word for “fin”, for example, is a Class VI noun).


Nouns are thus classified within the following scheme:


Class I: Animate, Masculine: Adult male humans, male “higher” animals, certain body parts (notably the penis, but also the fingers)

Class II: Animate, Feminine: Adult female humans, female “higher” animals, certain body parts (the eyes and hands)

Class III: Animate, Neuter: Adolescent humans, young “higher” animals, certain body parts (the arms and legs)

Class IV: Inanimate, Masculine: Fire, air, tools, birds, predators, augmentatives, certain body parts (such as the brain)

Class V: Inanimate, Feminine: Water, buildings, fish, herd animals, diminutives, certain body parts (notably the vagina, but also the nose)

Class VI: Inanimate, Neuter: Earth, various geographical features, insects, spiders, etc. Unique in containing no human body parts.


Certain nouns have the same root, but placing them within a different class can change their meaning. The most common example of this comes from the words for “hand” and “finger”, which are both represented by the root *wonti-. However, when masculine, taking the form *wonter in the singular agentive, it means “finger”, while the feminine equivalent, *wontus, means “hand”. There are more semantically divergent examples, though, e.g. *hutul-, meaning “arm” when a class III noun (*hutula) but “a herd of deer” when a class V noun (*hutulos).



Number Marking and Agreement

Nominal class determines how a given noun both declines and interacts with adjectives, verbs and quantifiers. For example, when relating to an inanimate noun a verb will always appear in the singular, regardless of whether than noun is in the plural. The number marking and number agreement scheme is as follows:


Class I: Animate, Masculine: Agreement obligatory, marking obligatory

Class II: Animate, Feminine: Agreement obligatory, marking optional

Class III: Animate, Neuter: Agreement optional, no marking

Class IV: Inanimate, Masculine: Agreement optional, marking obligatory

Class V: Inanimate, Feminine: Agreement optional, marking optional

Class VI: Inanimate, Neuter: No agreement, no marking


Gender defines whether a given noun is marked for number in a given circumstance while animacy (alongside gender) determines whether the verb it is associated with agrees with the underlying number of the noun. So, for example, class III and class VI nouns are always singular, whether they refer to more than one individual or not. However, if a class III noun represents a group of distinct individuals, say, for example, a group of children, without any quantifier present to specify that that is the case, the verb will appear in the plural. Class VI nouns, on the other hand, have no such agreement and always have a singular verb.

Expanding on the scheme, then, we find this pattern (where Y indicates that the noun or verb is marked as the same as the underlying number of the noun (N/A indicates that such a situation doesn't arise)):

Code: Select all

+-------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+
|                   |        Marking        |       Agreement       +
+-------------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
|                   | No Quant. | Pl Quant. | No Quant. | Pl Quant. |
+-----------+-------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
| Class I   | Sing. |     Y     |    N/A    |     Y     |    N/A    |
|           | Pl.   |     Y     |     Y     |     Y     |     Y     |
+-----------+-------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
| Class II  | Sing. |     Y     |    N/A    |     Y     |    N/A    |
|           | Pl.   |     Y     |     N     |     Y     |     Y     |
+-----------+-------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
| Class III | Sing. |     Y     |    N/A    |     Y     |    N/A    |
|           | Pl.   |     N     |     N     |     Y     |     N     |
+-----------+-------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
| Class IV  | Sing. |     Y     |    N/A    |     Y     |    N/A    |
|           | Pl.   |     Y     |     Y     |     Y     |     N     |
+-----------+-------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
| Class V   | Sing. |     Y     |    N/A    |     Y     |    N/A    |
|           | Pl.   |     Y     |     N     |     Y     |     N     |
+-----------+-------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
| Class VI  | Sing. |     Y     |    N/A    |     Y     |    N/A    |
|           | Pl.   |     N     |     N     |     N     |     N     |
+-----------+-------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+

So, obviously, when a noun is singular, everything associated with it is also singular. However, when the noun is underlyingly plural, the noun and/or the associated verb and any adjectives, or even neither, may appear in the plural depending on the gender and animacy of the noun and on the presence of a plural quantifier, with marking for the plural becomes increasingly rare as you move down the noun classes. Class I nouns are the most marked and class VI nouns are the least marked, never appearing in the plural.



Case


The following two tables show the case and number endings for each of the six classes of nouns.

Singular:

Code: Select all

----+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
    | MAS.ANIM. | FEM.ANIM. | NEU.ANIM. | MAS.INAN. | FEM.INAN. | NEU.INAN. |
----+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
AGT |    -ar    |    -us    |    -a     |           |           |           |
----+-----------+-----------+-----------+    -r     +    -s     +    -0     +
PAT |    -a     |    -u     |    -0     |           |           |           |
----+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
GEN |    -an    |    -un    |    -as    |           -n          |    -s     |
----+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
DAT |    -ada   |    -uda   |    -a'    |           -da         |    -a     |
----+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
ABL |          -la          |    -na    |                -l                 |
----+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
LOC |                            -i                             |    -u     |
----+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+

Plural

Code: Select all

----+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
    | MAS.ANIM. | FEM.ANIM. | NEU.ANIM. | MAS.INAN. | FEM.INAN. | NEU.INAN. |
----+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
AGT |         -i-de         |   -i-sa   |                       |           |
----+-----------+-----------+-----------+          -i-r         +    ----   +
PAT |         -i-r          |   -i-a    |                       |           |
----+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
GEN |         -i-an         |   -i-as   |          -i-n         |    ----   |
----+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
DAT |         -i-da         |   -i-a'   |          -i-da        |    ----   |
----+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
ABL |                -i-la              |          -i-l         |    ----   |
----+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
LOC |                            -i-i                           |    ----   |
----+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+

NOTE: The plural forms of class III nouns are not actually used on the nouns, but instead used on adjectives agreeing with them in number. Neuter nouns are never themselves marked for number.


Examples:

*leltusijdi- - Literally meaning "tongue sound", this compound stem means "language" and is a Class IV noun, declining as follows:

AGT: leltusijdir, pl. leltusijdir
PAT: leltusijdir, pl. leltusijdir
GEN: leltusijdin, pl. leltusijdin 
DAT: leltusijdida, pl. leltusijdijda 
ABL: leltusijdil, pl. leltusijdil
LOC: leltusijdij, pl. leltusijdijji

Perhaps unfortunately, because this particular stems ends in an -i-, vowel collapse causes a number of its plural forms to be wholly identical to their singular counterparts, the only two exceptions being the dative and the locative.


*iwlir- - Meaning both "father" and "paternal uncle", this Class I declines as such:

AGT: iwlirar, pl. iwliride
PAT: iwlira, pl. iwlirir
GEN: iwliran, pl. iwliren
DAT: iwlirada, pl. iwlirida 
ABL: iwlirla, pl. iwlirila
LOC: iwliri, pl. iwlirij


*udu- - This particular noun has two meanings, 1) "foot", when declined as a Class II noun and 2) "toe", when declines as a Class I noun:

FOOT: 
AGT: udus, pl. udujde
PAT: udu, pl. udir
GEN: udun, pl. udujjan
DAT: uduwda, pl. udujda
ABL: udula, pl. udujla
LOC: uduj, pl. udujji

TOE: 
AGT: udor, pl. udujde
PAT: udu', pl. udir
GEN: udon, pl. udujjan
DAT: udu'da, pl. udujda
ABL: udula, pl. udujla
LOC: uduj, pl. udujji

Forms appearing in blue are indistinct in regards to whether the word refers to "toe" or "foot". For example *udujde means both "toes" and "feet".
Last edited by sangi39 on 07 Dec 2014 01:45, edited 7 times in total.
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Proto-Sirdic: Case Usage

Post by sangi39 » 24 Sep 2014 02:41

Case Usage

This section needs updating, to bring the examples used in line with current morphology

The Agentive Case

The uses of the agentive case are fairly basic, and purely syntactic, being used to mark a) the agent of transitive verbs and b) the subject of dynamic verbs. It can also be used in equative phrases, e.g. "he is tall", "she is a writer", etc.



The Patientive Case

The patientive case, like the agentive, is a purely syntactic case with, again, two main uses, marking a) the patient of transitive verbs and b) the subject of stative verbs. As with the agentive, the patientive cannot be used with prepositions.



The Genitive Case

The genitive case has three main uses, indicating possession (the possessive genitive), the direct objects of durative telic verbs (the syntactic genitive) and motion across, alongside or through an object (the prepositional genitive).


The Syntactic Genitive

Needs Work


The Possessive Genitive

When the genitive is used in marking possession, the possessing noun is converted into an adjective which then declines further in line with the case, number, gender and animacy of the noun being possessed (this behaviour has also led some to call it the "adjectival" or "inflecting" genitive).

So, for example, if we want to talk about the nose, *gumu-, of a father, *iwlir-, then *iwlir- must appear in the genitive, *iwlir-an-, and then declines as if it were an adjective agreeing with a class V noun. So if *gumu- appeared in the singular nominative, we would have *iwliranus gumus, while, for example, *iwliranida gumujda would be the form used with *gumu- appearing the plural dative.

Notice that despite the possessive genitive being an adjective, it appears before the possessed noun, rather than after it, as is the case with most other adjectives.

More complex phrases can develop if we describe the possessor and the possessed noun, specifying things like size and colour, etc. So, let's take, for example "a large father's nose", where the father is large. Here we would get *iwliranus śudan gumus in the nominative singular, with śuda- agreeing in number, gender and case (genitive only) with *iwlir- and *iwlir-an- agreeing in number, gender and case with *gumu-. If it's the nose that is large, however, we would get *iwliranus gumus śudas with śuda- agreeing in number, gender and case with *gumu- instead.

If we were to start specifying number, then things start to build up even further. Say there are three large fathers who share a single nose (maybe it's someone else's nose that one of them cut off). In this case we would find *godasan iwliranus śudajjan gumus but if we had a single, large father with three noses we would get *iwliranus śudan godasus gumus. Note that in both of these phrases, *iwlir-an- always remains singular, no matter how many fathers are being described. This is true of all possessive nouns, which can only appear morphologically in the singular. Thus the phrase *iwliranus gumus introduced above is actually ambiguous in terms of how many fathers possess the nose (although it is more likely that only one father is in possession of a single nose).


The Prepositional Genitive

The genitive also has a third use, when used with a preposition, of indicating motion across, alongside or through an object. For example, *tare, meaning "house, home, tent", when appearing in the genitive case after the preposition *da, meaning "near to, adjacent to", i.e. *da taran, means "(move) alongside the house". So, we might see, for example:

*na sellemen da tarin
na-0 sellem-n da tare-i-n
1S-AGT run-1 "near" house-PL-GEN
I run alongside the houses



The Dative Case

Like the genitive case, the dative case has both syntactic and non-syntactic uses, marking a) the direct object of punctual telic verbs (the syntactic dative), b) motion towards an object (the prepositional dative)


The Syntactic Dative

Needs Work


The Prepositional Dative

For example *so, meaning "on (the surface of)", can be used alongside the dative case to mean "onto (the surface of)", e.g.:

*na kebalan mal so gunko'
na keba-l-n mal so gunko-a
1S.AGT put-PST-1 2S.GEN "on" ground-DAT
I put it on the ground



The Ablative Case

The ablative case represents movement towards and object, typically used with various prepositions, but when used on its own it tends to mean "away from (being near something)", i.e. object 1 was near object 2 and is now moving further away.

Unlike the genitive case and the dative case, which can be used to represent movement as well as syntactic information, the ablative has no other uses.



The Locative Case

The locative case serves as the basic case of location. On its own, as with the ablative case, it indicates a location near to another object, but not physically on the surface of or inside of that object.

It can also serve as a vocative case, typically appearing in set phrases, with pronouns appearing on their own or in poetic forms, e.g. 

*Suteni, sew da'res jorkos da kuda
Suten-i, sew-0 da'res-0 jork-s da ku-da
Suten-LOC, 3.ANIM-AGT give-3S 3.INAM-GEN on 1.PL.INCL-DAT
Suten [Sky Father], he gives this to us.

as opposed to:

*Sutenar da'res jorkos da kuda
Suten-ar da'res-0 jork-s da ku-da
Suten-AGT give-3S 3.INAM-GEN on 1.PL.INCL-DAT
Suten gives this to us.
Last edited by sangi39 on 05 Dec 2014 14:28, edited 10 times in total.
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Proto-Sirdic: Adjectives

Post by sangi39 » 25 Sep 2014 02:18

Adjectives

Again, in need of updating

Morphology

Most adjectives agree in both number and gender with their associated nouns but are somewhat “deficient” in terms of case agreement, only appearing in the agentive, patientive, genitive and locative cases, where the locative case is used when a noun appears in the dative, ablative or locative.

As the examples above about the plural suffix in nouns might suggest, plural quantifiers or numerals do not agree morphologically with their associated nouns, but they still agree in case and gender.

So, using a few examples and using only the plural agentive we find:

Code: Select all

+-------+----------+---------+------------+-----------+-------------------+-------------------+---------------------------+
| Class |  Root    | Meaning | SING. AGT. | PL. AGT.  | 3 AGT.            | big PL. AGT.      | 3 big AGT.                |
+-------+----------+---------+------------+-----------+-------------------+-------------------+---------------------------+
|  I    | *iwlir-  | father  | *iwlirar   | *iwliride | *gadosar iwliride | *iwliride śudajde | *gadosar iwliride śudajde |
+-------+----------+---------+------------+-----------+-------------------+-------------------+---------------------------+
|  II   | *nigos-  | mother  | *nigosus   | *nigoside | *gadosus nigosus  | *nigoside śudajde | *gadosus nigosus śudajde  |
+-------+----------+---------+------------+-----------+-------------------+-------------------+---------------------------+
|  III  | *hutul-  | arm     | *hutula    | *hutula   | *gadosa hutula    | *hutula śudajsa   | *gadosa hutula śuda'      |
+-------+----------+---------+------------+-----------+-------------------+-------------------+---------------------------+
|  IV   | *śujko'- | brain   | *śujkar    | *śujko'ir | *gadosar śujko'ir | *śujko'ir śudajde | *gadosar śujko'ir śudar   |
+-------+----------+---------+------------+-----------+-------------------+-------------------+---------------------------+
|  V    | *gumu-   | nose    | *gumus     | *gumir    | *gadosus gumus    | *gumir śudajde    | *gadosus gumus śudos      |
+-------+----------+---------+------------+-----------+-------------------+-------------------+---------------------------+
|  VI   | *jolto-  | hill    | *jolto     | *jolto    | *gadosa jolto     | *jolto śuda'      | *gadosa jolto śuda'       |
+-------+----------+---------+------------+-----------+-------------------+-------------------+---------------------------+


Note: All adjectives use the animate declension.

Then taking just *iwlir-, “father”, we can see how adjectives agree with the case of their nouns:

Code: Select all

+-----+-----------------+
|     | *iwlir- *śuda-  |
|-----+-----------------+
| AGT | *iwlirar śudan  |
| PAT | *iwlira  śuda'  |
| GEN | *iwliran śudan  |
| DAT | *iwlirada śudaj |
| ABL | *iwlirla śudaj  |
| LOC | *iwliri  śudaj  |
+-----+-----------------+



Adjectival Order

As you may have noticed, certain adjectives occur before or after the noun. Numerals are the primary example of pre-nominal adjectives, while adjectives dealing with age, size, colour, etc. are usually post-nominal. However, when a post-nominal adjective is used in forming a compound with a noun, it appears before that noun, e.g. *iwlirar śudar (large father) vs. *śuda-iwlirar > *śudewlirar (Great Father, i.e. "male head of a clan, tribe, etc.") (note that the adjective at this point doesn't have to agree in any way with the noun).
Last edited by sangi39 on 06 Dec 2014 06:16, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Proto-Sirdic

Post by shimobaatar » 25 Sep 2014 02:34

I've probably said this before, but I just love the look of everything here! [+1]

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Proto-Sirdic: Pronouns

Post by sangi39 » 07 Oct 2014 17:26

Pronouns

This is more or less correct, but the declined forms need updating.

Base Forms

So, I've been thinking a little bit about pronouns, and I thought I'd try on settle on some stems. Generally speaking, each basic pronoun has between one and four stems, depending on which grammatical person and number is intended and, unlike nouns, a distinct dual number is present in certain persons. So, let's cover the stems used in each case first:

Code: Select all

+------------+-----+-----+-------+-------+
| 1st Person | SG. | DU. | EXCL. | INCL. |
+------------+-----+-----+-------+-------+
| Agentive   | na- | na- | lem-  | na-   |
| Patientive | si- | si- | ha-   | si-   |
| Genitive   | bo- | ku- | ter-  | ku-   |
| Dative     | ku- | ku- | ter-  | ku-   |
| Ablative   | ku- | ku- | ter-  | ku-   |
| Locative   | ku- | ku- | ter-  | ku-   |
+------------+-----+-----+-------+-------+

+------------+------+------+------+
| 2nd Person | SG.  | DU.  | PL.  |
+------------+------+------+------+
| Agentive   | re-  | re-  | 'eh- |
| Patientive | ga-  | ga-  | 'eh- |
| Genitive   | mal- | mal- | sum- |
| Dative     | mal- | mal- | sum- |
| Ablative   | mal- | mal- | sum- |
| Locative   | mal- | mal- | sum- |
+------------+------+------+------+

+------------+----------+----------+-------+
| 3rd Person | ANIM.SG. | INAN.SG. | PL.   |
+------------+----------+----------+-------+
| Agentive   | sew-     |  hal-    | jel-  |
| Patientive | sew-     |  hal-    | jel-  |
| Genitive   | jork-    |  jork-   | jork- |
| Dative     | jork-    |  jork-   | jork- |
| Ablative   | jork-    |  jork-   | jork- |
| Locative   | jork-    |  jork-   | jork- |
+------------+----------+----------+-------+
The dual is represented in the suffix *-go- while the inclusive dual-plural first person is indicated by the suffix *-s-.

The animate agentive and patientive suffixes can be used on the corresponding first and second person forms in order to indicate gender, e.g. *na-, "I" vs. *nar "I (male)". When they are used with plural pronouns, the normal plural ending for that pronoun is replaced with the corresponding nominal plural ending, e.g. *nas, "we (INCL)" vs. *najde "we (INCL. MAS/FEM).

The first person singular genitive, where used to indicate possession, only appears with a specific genitive ending where it is used to emphasise personal ownership of something, e.g. *bo jolto, "my hill", vs. *ban jolto, "(definitely) my (and only my) hill".



Declined Forms

Code: Select all

+------------+-------+----------+--------+---------+
| 1st Person | SG.   | DU.      | EXCL.  | INCL.   |
+------------+-------+----------+--------+---------+
| Agentive   | na-   | na-go-   | lem-   | na-s    |
| Patientive | si-   | si-go-   | ha-    | si-s    |
| Genitive   | bo-   | ku-go-n- | ter-n- | ku-s-n- |
| Dative     | ku-da | ku-go-da | ter-da | ku-s-da |
| Ablative   | ku-l  | ku-go-l  | ter-el | ku-s-el |
| Locative   | ku-j  | ku-go-j  | ter-i  | ku-s-i  |
+------------+-------+----------+--------+---------+

+------------+--------+-----------+--------+
| 2nd Person | SG.    | DU.       | PL.    |
+------------+--------+-----------+--------+
| Agentive   | re-    | re-go-    | 'eh-de |
| Patientive | ga-    | ga-go-    | 'eh-ir |
| Genitive   | mal-n- | mal-go-n- | sum-n- |
| Dative     | mal-da | mal-go-da | sun-da |
| Ablative   | mal-ol | mal-go-l  | sum-ol |
| Locative   | mal-i  | mal-go-j  | sum-i  |
+------------+--------+-----------+--------+
The third person pronouns decline in line with the class of the noun they represent (thus the plural forms cannot represent a Class VI noun).
Last edited by sangi39 on 05 Dec 2014 13:49, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Proto-Sirdic

Post by sangi39 » 09 Oct 2014 12:44

Verbal Class and Case Determination



Verbal Class

Verbs are divided into eight classes, along three axes, namely agency, completeness and telicity:


Agency: Dynamic vs. Stative

Dynamic verbs are those verbs which inherently express agency, i.e. punctuated or continuous input of force or intent, causing the event to occur. So, for example, “take”, “give”, “push”, “pull”, “draw”, “put down”, “remove”, “set on fire”, etc. would all be dynamic verbs.

Stative verbs, on the other hand, express a lack of agency, input or intent. Instead, they cover actions which occur by accident or simply without cause. Examples include “fall”, “be red”, “be”, “lie down”, “die”, etc.


Completeness: Durative vs. Punctual

Durative verbs are those verbs which either have a continued duration or which occur in rapid succession. Such verbs would be “run” (dyn), “walk” (dyn), “drown” (stat), “fall” (stat), “tap (again and again)” (dyn), etc. Durative verbs also cover states which involve no change, or no relevant change. For example “be red”, “be (tall, short, young, old, etc.) would both be durative.

Punctual verbs instead indicate that the verb is instantaneous or somewhat non-continuous. So for example, verbs like “realise” (stat), “find” (dyn), “die” (stat) are punctual verbs since the action they represent occurs within a single instant. The verbs “blink” (stat), “sneeze” (stat), “shout” (dyn) and “knock” (dyn) are also punctual verbs.


Telicity: Telic vs. Atelic

Telic verbs have a definite endpoint, a goal which is reached as the result of the action. Verbs like “realise” (stat.punc.), “find” (stat.punc.), “drown” (stat.dur.), “set fire” (dyn.punc.) and “build” (dyn.dur.) would all be telic verbs because they have a singular outcome which occurs at the end up the action.

Atelic verbs do not have a definite endpoint or goal, e.g. “walk” (dyn.dur), “run” (dyn.dur), “fall” (stat.dur.), “lie down” (stat.dur), would be atelic, and so would verbs like “blink” (stat.punc.), “sneeze” (stat.punc.) and “knock” (dyn.punc.) which, occurring instantaneously, have no definitive endpoint. States would also be atelic, e.g. “be red” (stat.dur) and “be (tall)” (stat.dur.).

Code: Select all

+---------+--------+----------+------------+-------------------------+
|        Distinctions         | Verb Class | Examples                |
+---------+--------+----------+------------+-------------------------+
| Dynamic | Telic  | Durative | Class I    | build                   |
+---------+--------+----------+------------+-------------------------+
| Dynamic | Telic  | Punctual | Class III  | set fire                |
+---------+--------+----------+------------+-------------------------+
| Dynamic | Atelic | Durative | Class II   | walk, run               |
+---------+--------+----------+------------+-------------------------+
| Dynamic | Atelic | Punctual | Class IV   | knock                   |
+---------+--------+----------+------------+-------------------------+
| Stative | Telic  | Durative | Class V    | drown                   |
+---------+--------+----------+------------+-------------------------+
| Stative | Telic  | Punctual | Class VII  | realise, find           |
+---------+--------+----------+------------+-------------------------+
| Stative | Atelic | Durative | Class VI   | fall, lie down, be red  |
+---------+--------+----------+------------+-------------------------+
| Stative | Atelic | Punctual | Class VIII | blink, sneeze           |
+---------+--------+----------+------------+-------------------------+

The three components of a a given verb's lexical aspect go on to affect how the case of intransitive subject and transitive patient are determined, as described below.



Case Determination

As mentioned previously, certain cases in which nouns can appear have varying uses, depending on the lexical aspect of the verb.

Agency determines the case in which the intransitive subject may appear in. Dynamic verbs take an agentive subject, while stative verbs take patientive subjects. All transitive verbs, though, take agentive subjects.

Telicity determines the case which the direct object can appear in. Atelic verbs can only take patientive direct objects while telic ones can take either genitive or dative direct objects.

Completeness determines the final choice determining the case of direct objects of telic verbs. Durative verbs take genitive direct objects while punctual ones take dative direct objects.

Code: Select all

+------------+--------------+----------------------+
|            | Intransitive |       Transitive     |
+------------+--------------+-----------+----------+
| Verb Class |              | "Subject" | "Object" |
+------------+--------------+-----------+----------+
| Class I    |     AGT      |    AGT    |   GEN    |
+------------+--------------+-----------+----------+
| Class II   |     AGT      |    AGT    |   PAT    |
+------------+--------------+-----------+----------+
| Class III  |     AGT      |    AGT    |   DAT    |
+------------+--------------+-----------+----------+
| Class IV   |     AGT      |    AGT    |   PAT    |
+------------+--------------+-----------+----------+
| Class V    |     PAT      |    AGT    |   GEN    |
+------------+--------------+-----------+----------+
| Class VI   |     PAT      |    AGT    |   PAT    |
+------------+--------------+-----------+----------+
| Class VII  |     PAT      |    AGT    |   DAT    |
+------------+--------------+-----------+----------+
| Class VIII |     PAT      |    AGT    |   PAT    |
+------------+--------------+-----------+----------+
Last edited by sangi39 on 05 Dec 2014 13:41, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Proto-Sirdic

Post by sangi39 » 11 Oct 2014 12:47

Verbal Morphology



Person-Number Marking

Person marking on the verb is fairly straightforward, with the verb agreeing in person with either the subject or the agent of the phrase, as well as animacy in some instances. However, there are two different sets of suffixes which can be used, determined by verb class, or more specifically by whether the verb is dynamic or stative.

If the verb is stative, then the following person suffixes are used:

1st Person Singular: -s
2nd Person Singular: -h
3rd Person Singular: -

1st Person Plural: -i-s
2nd Person Plural: -i-h
3rd Person Plural: -i


But if the verb is dynamic, we instead find:

1st Person Singular: -an
2nd Person Singular: -ar
3rd Person Singular, Animate: -as
3rd Person Singular, Inanimate: -ah

1st Person Plural: -(V)-i-al
2nd Person Plural: -(V)-i-a'
3rd Person Plural: -(V)-i-ai


So, for example, *sellem-, “to run (class II)” and *keba-, “to put, place (something down) (class III)” would take the dynamic personal endings, e.g. *selleman, “I run”, *sellemas “he/she runs” and *keban, “I am putting (something down)”, etc. On the other hand, the verbs *pu- “to be (class Vb)” and *silku- “to fall (class Vb)” would take the stative personal endings, e.g. *pus “I am”, *pu “he/she/it is” and *silkus “I am falling”, etc.

These suffixes cannot, though, be applied directly to a verb belonging to the opposite class, e.g. *silku- couldn't appear as *silkon in order to convey the meaning “I fall over on purpose” and *keba- cannot appear as *kebah to mean “you are dropping (something)”. Instead, the verb must be converted from one verb class to the other using a set of derivational affixes which will be discussed below.


Four things are worth noting about the person-number marking of verbs:

a) The stative verb conjugation is less complex that the dynamic conjugation, involving a single set of personal suffixes used in both numbers the singular and plural and a zero-morpheme in the third person.
b) The dynamic conjugation, on the other hand, has a distinct set of singular person suffixes and plural person suffixes and an animacy distinction in the third person singular.
c) The dynamic conjugation also, unlike the stative conjugation, contains a thematic *-a- which appears directly before the personal suffixes.
d) The plural endings contain a semi-redundant *-i- suffix (preceded by an epenthetic vowel, in the case of dynamic verbs, after a consonant-final stem). While the person suffixes, at least in the dynamic conjugation, change depending on whether they are singular or plural, this plural suffix must appear when a plural person suffix is used, e.g. **sellemal and **puh (when intended to be plural) cannot occur, and must instead appear as *sellemejjal (we run) and *pih (you (pl.) are).



Tense

Proto-Sirdic verbs, as well as conjugate for number and person, also conjugate for four tense; the remote past, the recent past, the present/non-past and the future-inceptive, the affixes of which appear directly before the plural marker and the person markers.

The recent past (REC.PST), indicated by means of the suffix *-t-, relates to events that have happened, typically, within the period of the last two days, although it can also be used to indicate an event that happened more recently than some other event, meaning that greater time depths can be conveyed by means of this tense. So, for example, we might have *sellentan (I ran (somewhere) within the last two days).

The remote past (REM.PST), indicated by the suffix *-ak-, relates to events that have happened three or more days earlier than the moment of speech, or the time being spoken about. As mentioned above in regards to the recent past, the remote past can also be used to indicate an event that happened further back than some other event that occurred in the past. Using *sellem- again, you could have *sellemakejjal (we ran (somewhere) more than two days ago).

The present tense (PRS), or more specifically, the non-past, indicated by a null suffix, indicates an event that is occurring at the moment of speaking, at at the time being referred to.

The future-inceptive is probably best described as an aspect-tense marker, and has a somewhat vague meaning. Indicated by the suffix *-u-, the future-inceptive can appear both on its own and directly after the recent and remote past suffixes. In either instance, it can refer to either intent to do something soon after the time being referred to, e.g. “about to” or it can refer to an event that is expected to occur. The time period covered by the future-inceptive, however, is limited to roughly one day into the future, and, as a result, it is sometimes referred to as the "crastinal" tense (CRAS). In this case *sellemon could mean "I will run tomorrow", "I will run later today" or "I am about to run". When used with the recent past suffix *sellenton could mean "I would have ran today", "I would have ran yesterday" or something along those lines.

Proto-Sirdic also employs a relative tense system, in which the centre of deixis is the time currently under discussion as opposed to the moment of speaking.

Code: Select all

+-------------------------------+---------------------+-------------------------+
|                               | Past reference time | Non-past reference time |
+-------------------------------+---------------------+-------------------------+
|  Event before reference time  |    Anterior Past    |     Posterior Past      |
| Event at/after reference time |  Anterior Non-Past  |   Posterior Non-Past    |
+-------------------------------+---------------------+-------------------------+

The anterior past is used for events which occur before the main event occurring before the moment of utterance
The posterior non-past is used for event at or after the main event occurring at or after the moment of utterance.
The anterior non-past is used for events which occur at or after the main event occurring before the moment of utterance, even if that secondary event occurs before the moment of utterance.
The posterior past is used for events which occur before the main event occurring at or after the moment of utterance, even if that secondary event occurs at or after the moment of utterance.
Last edited by sangi39 on 07 Dec 2014 22:24, edited 8 times in total.
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Proto-Sirdic: Word Order

Post by sangi39 » 11 Oct 2014 17:15

Word Order



Basic Word Order

The typical, basic word order of a Proto-Sirdic sentence is subject-verb-object, although certain elements can be moved about within the sentence for emphasis due to the interaction between the lexical aspect of verbs and nominal.



Adjectives

Adjectives appear both before and after their associated noun, but there is a strict divide between the two. The possessive genitive, which declines as an adjective, must appear directly before the noun, as must numbers, which likewise decline as adjectives (except for number agreement). Adjectives describing physical characteristics, personality traits, age, etc. appear after the noun.
Last edited by sangi39 on 05 Dec 2014 14:09, edited 2 times in total.
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Proto-Sirdic: Nouns

Post by sangi39 » 23 Oct 2014 20:57

Nouns

I'm likely going to take out the Classical Kusan reflexes or add in their Old Inkas cognates as well. I haven't added in semantic shifts or which noun class each entry belongs to, which just seems stupid [:P]

Nouns are arranged predominantly by class (I, II, III, etc. through to VI) and then thematically within those groupings, e.g. kinship terms, body parts, animals, etc. The base form is given first, then the agentive singular form.


Class I: Masculine, Animate

*iwlir-, *iwlirar: Father, F's Brother
*kujri-, *kujrer: Mother's Brother, M's B's Son
*usi-, *user: Brother (older)
*kaddom-, *kaddomar: Brother (younger), Male Parallel Cousin
*ruśo-, *ruśar: Father's Sister's Son, Sister's Son
*tigin-, *tiginar: Son (oldest), Young Man
*hodde-, *hoddar: Son (younger), Brother's Son

*tulwi-, *tulwer: Human Being
*kumpe-, *kumpar: Man
*saljew-, *saljewar: Child (Male)

*helgaj-, *helgajar: Back, Spinal Chord
*wonti-, *wonter: Finger
*udu-, *udor: Toe
*hujpo-, *hujpar: Tongue

*ergoh-, *ergohar: Horse, Adult male horse
*hugon-, *huganor: Dog, Adult male dog



Class II: Feminine, Animate:

*nigos-, *nigosus: Mother, M's Sister, M's B's Daughter
*ginge-, *gingos: Father's Sister
*surpi-, *surpus: Sister (older)
*mu'e-, *mu'os: Sister (younger)
*lujgu-, *lujgus: Father's Sister's Daughter, Sister's Daughter
*peju-, *pejus: Daughter (oldest), Young Woman
*gummaw-, *gummawus: Daughter (younger), Brother's Daughter

*bosa-, *bosos: Woman
*di'do-, *di'dos: Child (Female)

*wonti-, *wontus: Hand
*udu-, *udus: Foot
*lodon-, *lodonus: Eye
*seso-, *sesos: Mouth, Lips

*na'al-, *na'alus: Adult female horse
*jonda-, *jondos: Adult female dog



Class III: Neuter, Animate:

*hutul-, *hutula: Arm, Hand
*gorken-, *gorkena: Leg, Foot

*konko-, *konka: Foal
*bunu-, *buno: Young dog


Class IV: Masculine, Inanimate:

*śujko'-, *śujko'or: Head, Skull
*pidde-, *pidder: Chin, Beard
*mesom-, *mesomor: Neck, Vocal Chords, Throat, Upper Spine
*śunul-, *śunulor: Body, Torso
*welsa-, *welsar: Hair (on the head)
*tombe-, *tomber: Tooth

*wagi-, *wagir: Wolf, Male wolf
*pelas-, *pelasor: Pack of wolves
*lanka-, *lankar: Male deer
*de'kis-, *de'kiser: Ox, Adult bull

*derri-, *derrir: Fruit (from a bush, as opposed to from a tree), occasionally used to mean "testicle".

*tare-, *tarer: House, Home

*dotal-, *dotalor: Knife
*pujhe'-, *pujhe'er: Arrow
*kurro-, *kurror: Spear



Class V: Feminine, Inanimate:

*gumu-, *gumus: Nose, Nostril
*nawta-, *nawtas: Shoulder, Collar Bone
*dortu-, *dortus: Chest, Ribcage
*jaru-, *jarus: Stomach, Belly
*dośśu-, *dośśus: Ear

*hutul-, *hutulos: Herd of deer
*sordu-, *sordus: Female wolf
*gehtar-, *gehtaros: Deer, Female deer
*sojle-, *sojles: Adult cow
*hulli'-, *hulli'es: Calf, Young deer

*midur-, *miduros: River
*terte-, *tertes: Stream
*budom-, *budomos: Lake

*ojge-, *ojges: Bow



Class VI: Neuter, Inanimate:

*butew-, *butew: Hair (on the body), Fur

*gunko-, *gunko: Ground, Earth, Soil
*jolto-, *jolto: Hill
*hollem-, *hollem: Valley
*jinkoj-, *jinkoj: Island
*monal-, *monal: Mountain
*mi'jum-, *mi'jum: Tree
*hetuj-, *hetuj: Forest
Last edited by sangi39 on 11 Dec 2014 19:11, edited 13 times in total.
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Proto-Sirdic: Adjectives (Vocabulary)

Post by sangi39 » 24 Oct 2014 22:02

Adjectives
Last edited by sangi39 on 05 Dec 2014 14:32, edited 3 times in total.
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Proto-Sirdic: Verbs (Vocabulary)

Post by sangi39 » 25 Oct 2014 19:21

Verbs

Verbs are presented first by class and then by theme, with the stem, first person singular, 3rd person singular, 1st person plural and 3rd person plural shown respectively, for the present tense.

Class I



Class II



Class III



Class IV



Class V



Class VI

Colours:

atus-, atusos, atus, atusis, atusi: To be black, (metaphorically) to be of calm mind
tagu-, tagus, tagu, tagis, taguj: To be white, (metaphorically) to be still or standing in the face of violence
gojnim-, gojnimes, gojnim, gojnimis, gojnimej: To be blue, (metaphorically) to be dead
moći-, moćis, moći, moćis, moćij: To be red, (metaphorically) to be angry
gurne-, gurnes, gurne, gurnes, gurnej: To be yellow, (metaphorically) to be ill
girdun-, girdunos, girdun, girdunis, girdunej: To be green, (metaphorically) to be healthy
laso-, lasos, laso, lases, lasoj: To be brown, (metaphorically) to be alive



Class VII



Class VIII
Last edited by sangi39 on 07 Dec 2014 22:30, edited 5 times in total.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

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sangi39
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Re: Proto-Sirdic

Post by sangi39 » 25 Oct 2014 19:37

...
Last edited by sangi39 on 18 Nov 2014 01:21, edited 1 time in total.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

User avatar
sangi39
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Posts: 3299
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 00:53
Location: North Yorkshire, UK

Re: Proto-Sirdic

Post by sangi39 » 29 Oct 2014 02:08

...
Last edited by sangi39 on 18 Nov 2014 01:21, edited 1 time in total.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

User avatar
sangi39
moderator
moderator
Posts: 3299
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 00:53
Location: North Yorkshire, UK

Re: Proto-Sirdic

Post by sangi39 » 29 Oct 2014 17:08

...
Last edited by sangi39 on 18 Nov 2014 01:21, edited 3 times in total.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

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