Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

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Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by eldin raigmore » 25 Sep 2014 16:34

I was driving on the freeway yesterday, trying to follow Siri's directions, on a section that changed a few times from four lanes to five lanes and back.
I needed to stay in the lane second-from-right; the lane just to the left of the rightmost lane.
I started thinking of it as "the rightleast lane"; the lane just to the right of center; a right lane, but less "right" than any other right lane.
I thought that the lane just left of the center could be analogously called "the leftleast lane".

Then I started wondering "what if there were more than five lanes"?

(Because, if you see:
(If there're two lanes, they can be "the left lane" and "the right lane".
(If there're three lanes, they can be "the left lane", "the center lane", and "the right lane".
(If there're four lanes, they can be "the leftmost lane", "the leftleast lane", "the rightleast lane", and "the rightmost lane".
(If there're five lanes, they can be "the leftmost lane", "the leftleast lane", "the center lane", "the rightleast lane", and "the rightmost lane".)

I thought maybe the lane just left of the rightmost lane could be "the rightless lane" (because it is "less right" than the rightmost lane),
and the lane just right of "the rightleast lane" could be "the rightmore lane" (because it is "more right" than "the rightleast lane).
(I was inspired, in part, by "Oligocene, Miocene, Pliocene, Pleistocene".
(So maybe it would be more natural to swap the definitions of "rightless" and "rightmore" with each other.
(But I'm going to stick with what I first thought of for the remainder of this post.)

This way, if there were nine or fewer lanes, each would have its own designation.

Admittedly there'd be some redundancy; if there are six or seven lanes, "the rightmore lane" and "the rightless lane" are the same lane.
But already if there are three or two lanes, "the rightmost lane" and "the right lane" are the same lane.

I thought the same sort of variations could be used with other directional terms, like:
front and back (foremost, "foreless", "foremore", "foreleast", center-of-file, "hindleast", "hindmore", "hindless", hindmost);
upper and lower (if we use "top" and "bottom" as the roots it gets funny);
inner and outer (this one would have been especially useful to me recently; a non-flat objet d'art has a core consisting of a a ternary alloy of gold and silver and copper, and an outer layer of pure gold; but, covering and containing the core but covered and contain by the golden layer, is a layer that's a binary alloy of gold and silver. What to call the electrum layer?)
North and South, or East and West;
near and far ("nearmost" being next or nearest, then "nearless", "nearmore", "nearleast", middle-distance, "farleast", "farmore", "farless", then "farmost" or furthest);
and so on.

Or it could be extended to temporal rather than spatial adjectives (or whatever);
your "oldermost sister" would of course be your eldest sister, but you could have an "olderleast sister", the youngest of your older sisters;
and an "olderless sister", the second-eldest of your elder sisters, and an "oldermore sister", the second-youngest of your elder sisters; and so on.
You could also distinguish up to four younger sisters as "youngerleast", "youngermore", "youngerless", and "youngermost" (your baby sister).

(Maybe leave out the "-er-", making it "oldmost", "youngleast", etc.)

And it could be applied to "early" and "late".

Of course English doesn't now do such a thing AFAIK (unless I've just started a trend!).
But does anyone know of a non-polysynthetic natlang which does allow a speaker to, for instance, specify which one of three right lanes out of a six- or seven- -lane Interstate s/he wants to refer to in just one word (probably adjective, but maybe some other part-of-speech)?

And the big question:
Who is doing this in their conlang?
Does anyone know of a conlang that does anything even "sort of like" this, whether or not it's their own conlang?

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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by Lambuzhao » 26 Sep 2014 00:53

I noticed the weird redundant funness of words like 'furthermore', 'hindmost', etc. a long long year ago.


In my Germanic conlang Sadraas, the regular SUPERLATIVE is formed by adding -most.
E.g.
dubbgjemöst 'stupidest'
ljôßmöst 'least'
lucgjemöst 'luckiest'
mœschemöst 'softest'
richtenmöst 'most correct'
rodelmöst 'fewest'
uisenmöst 'smartest'

There are a handful of exceptions, of course:
beætöst 'worst' {baddest}
fyrsta 'first'
gœdöst 'best' {goodest}
huchst 'highest'
krœcöst 'greatest'
lætöst 'last'
mücöst 'most' {muchest}
ofvjllöst 'most evil'

The only other language (at least among Germanic langs) that I know that has somethings similar to the /most/ superlative suffix is :got: /umists/:
E.g.
auhumists "highest"
aftumists "last, aftermost"
frumists "first"
hindumists "hindmost"
spedumists "last"

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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by eldin raigmore » 26 Sep 2014 06:47

Thanks for your post, Lambuzhao.
It is very interesting; but I wonder if you missed the point of my O.P. (which would be my fault for not making it clear, rather than yours for not getting it).

I'm not so much interested in whether superlatives are formed by affixing a morpheme meaning "most"; nor whether that morpheme is diachronically related to the Germanic-languages' words for "most". (Well, I am interested, but not in this thread.)

Instead I was wondering whether some 'lang -- whether nat- or con- -- has morphology it can apply to an adjective (or whatever) such as "right", to make a word that means "just to the right of center", or that means "almost rightmost" ("rightmost but one", "next to rightmost", or whatever).

Do you know of such a language, whether natural or constructed?

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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by Lambuzhao » 26 Sep 2014 14:50

The closest thing I can think of off the top of my head involves Latin, prosody and final syllables of words.

Regarding prosody or accentuation, we have three words from Latin that may be somewhat close to what you are after.

If the accent falls on the last syllable, it falls on the ultimate syllable.
If the accent falls on the next-to-last syllable, it falls on the penultimate (paene 'almost' +ultimus 'last') syllable.

If the accent falls on the next-to-next-to-last syllable, it falls on the antepenultimate
(ante 'before' + paene 'almost' +ultimus 'last') syllable.

If the accent falls on the fourth-to-last syllable, it falls on the preantepenultimate
(pro 'fore' + ante 'before' + paene 'almost' +ultimus 'last') syllable.


I think this combination is only used in this context, and nowhere else in (Anglo)Latinity.


Sometimes the prefix /sub/ is used to mean "just shy of", "almost" in compounds:

There is a wind-name Subsolanus which literally means 'just shy of sunny' but among Roman sailors was understood more at 'from just under the rising sun'. It was the Latin name for the East Wind.

In Vitruvius, there is also a Subvesperus which literally means 'just shy of evening/sunset' and was used for the WSW Wind.

You can read more about these and Wind-Roses here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_compass_winds

*subsinister 'just shy of left'
*subdexter 'just shy of right'

both sound plausible, but are unattested [:S]


I am still a little confused about what exactly you're after,
I wish I could be of more help.

[:S] :?:

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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by eldin raigmore » 26 Sep 2014 18:50

Lambuzhao wrote:If the accent falls on the next-to-last syllable, it falls on the penultimate (paene 'almost' +ultimus 'last') syllable.
Good! I guess I'm looking for things like "penleftmost" and "penrightmost" etc.
"quasi-" is another prefix meaning "almost". "Quasi-leftmost" could be the second lane from the left, "quasi-rightmost" could be the second lane from the right.
(Of course I'm actually after more-natural-sounding expressions, whether natlangish or conlangish. The conlangish one would "sound natural" to its conspeakers, just as the natlang ones would sound natural to those languages' native speakers.)

We might be able to use "semi-dexter" or "right-semi-most" or "semi-rightmost" or something with a gloss like one of those for the lane (or the two lanes) halfway between the center lane and the rightmost lane.

Lambuzhao wrote:ante 'before' + paene 'almost' +ultimus 'last') syllable.
(pro 'fore' + ante 'before' + paene 'almost' +ultimus 'last') syllable.
I don't see those extending to other adjective(?)-sets like "left" and "right" etc. "Ante" and "pre" are too confined to temporal order; or so it seems to me.

Sometimes the prefix /sub/ is used to mean "just shy of", "almost" in compounds:
There is a wind-name Subsolanus which literally means 'just shy of sunny' but among Roman sailors was understood more at 'from just under the rising sun'. It was the Latin name for the East Wind.
In Vitruvius, there is also a Subvesperus which literally means 'just shy of evening/sunset' and was used for the WSW Wind.
You can read more about these and Wind-Roses here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_compass_winds
Great! Very interesting.

*subsinister 'just shy of left'
*subdexter 'just shy of right'
both sound plausible, but are unattested [:S]
I'd want "just shy of leftmost" instead of "just shy of left", and "just shy of rightmost" instead of "just shy of right".

I am still a little confused about what exactly you're after,
Pretty sure that's more my fault than yours.
Anyway this last post of yours is very helpful.

But of course I still have some unanswered questions.
(Maybe someone can give me a hint how to find the answers myself; where did you find that Compass Rose information?)

Is/was there a prefix or suffix meaning "just barely"?
Suppose it's a suffix S; "right-S" would refer to the lane just to the right of the center lane.
(or it could be a prefix or an ablaut or a consonant mutation or an infix or ….)

I know we use "Adj-esce" to mean "to become Adj", and therefore "Adj-escent" to mean "(in the state of) becoming Adj".
e.g. adolescent (becoming adult), tumescent (becoming swollen), quiescent (becoming quiet), viridescent (becoming green), etc.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-escent wrote:Etymology
Latin -escent, (present or active participle) form of -ēscō (“I become”).

Suffix
-escent

beginning to be; becoming
resembling
So sometimes it seems "-escent" might be used in the way I'm asking about; but it seems inappropriate -- perhaps a bit of a barbarism -- to use it for "dextrescent" or "sinistrescent" or "levescent" or whatever. One would think, for instance, that "topescent" refers to something about to complete an upward climb or something. But what if something has just started a descent? It would be in the same position as one that is about to complete an ascent. Is there a word (in some conlang or some other natlang, living or dead) for just the position -- a way to compose it out of "down" and some affix? Preferably an affix that could be combined with other roots as well?


Does some conlang or natlang have an affix that actually means "just barely" or "minimally"?

[hr][/hr]
[hr][/hr]


I guess I might be wanting morphology to form terms with the following meanings, out of various word-pairs:

Out of words meaning "left" and "right";
  1. the left-most one
  2. the one second-from-left
  3. the central one of the left half
  4. the second one counting leftward from the center
  5. the one just left of center
  6. the center one
  7. the one just right of center
  8. the one second from the center going rightward
  9. the central one out of the right half of the group
  10. the second-from-the-right one
  11. the rightmost one
Out of words meaning "up" and "down", or "top" and "bottom", or "above" and "below", or "upper" and "lower", or "high" and "low";
  1. the top-most one
  2. the one second-from-top
  3. the central one of the top half
  4. the second one counting upward from the center
  5. the one just above center
  6. the center one
  7. the one just below center
  8. the one second from the center going downward
  9. the central one out of the lower half of the group
  10. the second-from-the-bottom one
  11. the bottom one
And something similar for "fore" and "aft", or "front" and "back", or "before" and "behind", etc.

And something similar for many other adjectives (or adverbs or adpositions), too; "inner" and "outer", for instance.

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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by Ear of the Sphinx » 26 Sep 2014 19:11

(If there're four lanes, they can be "the leftmost lane", "the leftleast lane", "the rightleast lane", and "the rightmost lane".
In Christopher Priest's “Inverted World” there are four tracks: left outer, left inner, right inner and right outer.
Thrice the brinded cat hath mew'd.

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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by eldin raigmore » 26 Sep 2014 19:40

Ear of the Sphinx wrote:In Christopher Priest's “Inverted World” there are four tracks: left outer, left inner, right inner and right outer.
URL? (link requested, please?)
Better than this, if possible.

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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by Ear of the Sphinx » 26 Sep 2014 22:48

I don't know how to make a URL out of a book, so I'll just cite a relevant fragment:
The tracks at the south of the city ran for about half a mile, ending in no particular place. There were four tracks, each consisting of two metal rails supported on timber sleepers which were in turn resting on sunken concrete foundations. Two of the tracks had already been considerably shortened by Malchuskin and his crew, and we were working on the longest one still extant, the one laid as right outer.

Malchuskin explained that if I assumed the city was to the front of us, the four tracks were identified by left and right, outer and inner in each case.
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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by Corphishy » 27 Sep 2014 03:07

In my most recent conlang, Ulmaige, one would say this thusly:

Olmast "Left-most"
Olmmor Fondu/Naindu/Etc. "Second/Third/Etc. Left-most" (lit. 'lefter second/third/etc.')
Manus "Middle"
Eldamor Fondu/Naindu/Etc. "Second/Third/Etc. Right-most" (lit. 'righter second/third/etc.')
Eldaast "Right-most"

So it's not exactly a bunch of suffixes dedicated to just one position in space or time (the same paradigm would be used for time too, making weird literal translations like "third before" for something happening third to first chronologically which would be Hauþmor naindu, btw), but there is still a paradigm set in place to specify these positions.

also the similarities of -mor to more and -ast to -est are purely coincidence
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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by Lambuzhao » 27 Sep 2014 03:14

Eldin wrote:I'd want "just shy of leftmost" instead of "just shy of left", and "just shy of rightmost" instead of "just shy of right".
You are a demanding one, fella! [xP]

You're lucky I'm friends with Priscian, who supplied me with actual Latin superlatives that would pretty much
line up with your 'rightmost' and 'leftmost':

dextimus, dexterrimus (other google hits say there's additionally dextrissimus)
AND
sinistimus, sinisterrimus

(BTW: I cannot help but learn something new whenever I mull things o'er with you [;)] )

So, using the /sub/ (which IMHO combines better than /paen/|/paene/):

*subdextimus, *subdexterrimus, *subdextrissimus

AND

*subsinistimus, *subsinisterrimus

Which, grinding them through the Anglo-Latin potato-ricer, would give us:

*subdextimate, *subdexterrimate, *subdextrissimate

AND

*subsinistimate, *subsinisterrimate

I put my money on *subdextimate and *subsinistimate, IMHO, but any of 'em would do.

But, I also like the ideas of *dextrescent and sinistrescent 'approaching or becoming right/left'

Oh yes, one thing to keep in mind: both dexter and sinister are fossilized archaic comparatives themselves. So, when they make their superlatives, Romans slapped on a SUPER suffix to a comparative, just as
English does with hinder+most, after+most, further+most, utter+most, outer+most.

Language is crazy, language is fun.
[:)]

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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by Lambuzhao » 27 Sep 2014 03:26

Eldin wrote: We might be able to use "semi-dexter" or "right-semi-most" or "semi-rightmost" or something with a gloss like one of those for the lane (or the two lanes) halfway between the center lane and the rightmost lane.
This jogged my memory down a more Anglishmost lane, because, you know me, I'm a big wielder of Anglish.
Anyhow, your suggestion of /semi/ reminded me of the relictual English prefix /sand/, which came from
OE /sam/, which is cognate to the Latin prefix. It was pretty productive in OE times, and meant 'half-X" or
"pretty much-X" or "almost well nigh-X". It only exists today in the Modern English word sandblind.

So, theoretically, to make it a more Anglish/Englishy thing, one could perhaps say:
sandrightmost
sandleftmost
sandtopmost
sambottommost
etc.

A related, equally obsolescent English word with a more Continental flair is purblind.
So, we could also postulate:
purrightmost
purleftmost
purtopmost
purbottommost
etc.

What say ye then?

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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by Lambuzhao » 27 Sep 2014 03:40

Hmmmm, Eldin craves more than just a couple of meager lanes.

Well, let's see, then:


leftmost | sandleftmost | nethermiddling | middlemost | o'ermiddling | sandrightmost | rightmost

OR, if your feeling more 'Romantic':

sinistimate | pursinistimate | submedian | median | surmedian | purdextimate | dextimate


Ooh, I just thought of another obscure Germ. prefix: /wan/. As in wanhope, but not Obi Wan Kenobi (unless he lost his kenobi previously).
I dunno if that's overreaching, but it's another possibility (mayhap).

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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by eldin raigmore » 27 Sep 2014 17:16

Lambuzhao wrote:....
Wow.

Actually, as far as lanes go, I'd be happy with a phonologically-simple-and-morphologically-transparent unique designator for each of four of them.
More would be highly welcome, but would be "gravy"; just the first four or five would be satisfactory.

For siblings, OTOH, I'd like speakers to be able to handle up to seven of them with separate common nouns, so s/he doesn't have to introduce them and then use their proper personal names before s/he can specify which one s/he is referring to. Some means other than ordinal numbers, I mean; though I suppose a combination of an ordinal number and a counting origin and a counting direction would work except for large groups. (I mean "first or second or third etc." "from the left or from the right or from the center going leftward or from the center going rightward". But it would need to work with other scales or dichotomies too; inner vs outer, etc.)

I suppose one could use
tonic / supertonic / mediant / subdominant / dominant / submediant / subtonic
but that seems better suited to something cyclical.

Or
violet / indigo / blue / green / yellow / orange / red
but that's not only cyclical, it's also extremely reminiscent of a bunch of color-terms.

Is that really what the "wan" prefix meant? Etymonline seems to say it's a privative prefix, saying that something is lacking.

And what were all those other affixes?
In particular how (or where or from whom) did you come up with the "sand-" prefix?
And the "pur-" prefix?

Couldn't find "pur-" used with that meaning here or here; but maybe it's not English?

Couldn't find "sand-" as a prefix for anything but "-box" and "-wich".

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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by Lambuzhao » 28 Sep 2014 00:05

I remembered 'sandblind' (Originally OE samblind) from a long time hence, prolly in Post-Bac Old Norse class, or Post-Bac Greek Historical Grammar (Dr. Ringe was a good'un for words like that). It's just one of those real hapax legomenon words stuffed in a rara avis served atop a white elephant; you kinda don't forget a word like that. Today the English word is spelled 'sandblind'. As I rechecked in Onions' Dictionary of English Etymology, it cross-referenced purblind. The /pur/ is an obscure, Middle English reduction of 'pure' but with the meaning of "just about, just shy of". Obviously a Romance straggler from French or Latin. Onions cross-referenced the prefix in 'parboil' with that of 'purblind'.

There ya have it. That's my story, I'm sticking to it, and I am unanimous in that.
[;)]

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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by Keenir » 28 Sep 2014 09:30

eldin raigmore wrote:For siblings, OTOH, I'd like speakers to be able to handle up to seven of them with separate common nouns, so s/he doesn't have to introduce them and then use their proper personal names before s/he can specify which one s/he is referring to. Some means other than ordinal numbers, I mean; though I suppose a combination of an ordinal number and a counting origin and a counting direction would work except for large groups. (I mean "first or second or third etc." "from the left or from the right or from the center going leftward or from the center going rightward". But it would need to work with other scales or dichotomies too; inner vs outer, etc.)

Or
violet / indigo / blue / green / yellow / orange / red
but that's not only cyclical, it's also extremely reminiscent of a bunch of color-terms
they are color terms; but not seeing the problem...redshifting and blueshifting, after all, are used in astronomy to denote position and movement. so, if there's a number of people, you could indicate you're referring to the one(s) who are moving towards/away from you/the person you're talking to.
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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by Creyeditor » 28 Sep 2014 12:24

When I first saw this post, I thought German could never do this.
Then I thought about the usual way to name e.g. seven lanes (from left to right)
  • ganz links
    totally left
  • zweite von links
    second from left
  • dritte von links
    third from left
  • mittlere
    middle
  • dritte von rechts
    third from right
  • zweite von rechts
    second from right
  • ganz rechts
    totally right
This made me think about a normal ordering, where you can have (starting from the last)
  • letzter
    last
  • vorletzter/zweitletzter
    before-last/second-last
  • drittletzter
    third-last
It seems, that you can also use the zweit- prefix with other words such as zweit-leichtest (second-light-SUPERLATIV) 'second lightest'.

If we would allow directions to have a superlativ, and consider zweit- and vor- to be allomorphs, we could at least have a 5 lanes system, maybe even 7 (from left to right again):
  • linkeste
  • zweitlinkeste/vorlinkeste
  • (drittlinkeste)
  • mittlere
  • (drittrechteste)
  • zweitrechteste/vorrechteste
  • rechteste
Actually, nobody would ever use something like this [:D]

Refereing to the siblings problem, in some indonesian dialects you have several options to call youre childrens by their 'number'.
You can either use Sanskrit numerals, or numerals of one of the local languages. However, this might not be the direction you're following.
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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by eldin raigmore » 29 Sep 2014 21:00

Lambuzhao wrote:I remembered 'sandblind' (Originally OE samblind) .... That's my story, I'm sticking to it, and I am unanimous in that. [;)]
Thanks! So that's where "sam-" and "pur-" come from. I'd have understood "sam-"; it's cognate to "some", isn't it?

Keenir wrote: they are color terms; but not seeing the problem...redshifting and blueshifting, after all, are used in astronomy to denote position and movement. so, if there's a number of people, you could indicate you're referring to the one(s) who are moving towards/away from you/the person you're talking to.
That's an interesting idea.
Or you could use something like { Sunday / Monday / Tuesday / Wednesday / Thursday / Friday / Saturday };
but then, in Quebec you'd have a disagreement between Anglophones and Francophones over whether Sunday was first (and Saturday last), or Sunday last (and Monday first).

[/funny stuff]
back to being serious:
Creyeditor wrote:When I first saw this post, I thought German could never do this.
….
You can either use Sanskrit numerals, or numerals of one of the local languages. However, this might not be the direction you're following.
Thanks!
You're right, I was (at first) wanting a system that didn't have to rely on reduced and/or incorporated forms of ordinal or cardinal numerals.
However now I am starting to be less insistent about that.
Spoiler:
Sanskrit numerals? Mendeleev filled in the missing elements in his original periodic chart by putting e.g. ekasilicon where germanium is now (one below silicon; dvisilicon could already have been tin and trisilicon could already have been lead so those terms might not have been used, but (though Mendeleev did not predict it) ekalead = ununquadium = flerovium. Also ekamanganese was technetium, dvimanganese was rhenium, and presumably trimanganese could have been unnilseptium is bohrium (though again AFAIK Mendeleev didn't predict it).
(Actually Mendeleev's first cut at a periodic table didn't treat the transition metals (the d-block) quite the way we would, and didn't handle the rare earths (the f-block) correctly at all. So ekaboron turned out to be scandium; etc. Anything heavier than barium (element 56) was definitely "screwed up" according to the modern table, and much heavier than calcium (element 20) wasn't quite right. Still...)

I am still looking for a set of terms that will be independent of the cardinality of the group.
That would mean that once the group becomes large enough the set of terms can't match the group's members one-to-one.
Either some members won't have corresponding terms, or some terms will correspond to more than one member, or both.
Spoiler:
In historic times when a couple married when both were at the average age to marry, and both lived until the average age to die, and they were never separated during their lives after marriage, they tended to have, on average, about six or seven children.
Of course, if you look for how often two (or more) most-likely events happen together, it will be less frequent than either of them. Put enough of them together and you come up with something extremely rare.
For one thing, for most of history about one in four childbirths ended in the death of the mother. The Aztecs correctly viewed giving birth as courageous a deed as a warrior's going to battle.
(Without special training, troops will usually run once their casualties exceed 10%. During the post-Napoleonic period (Frederick the Great, e.g.), troops had to be trained to be more afraid of their superiors than of the enemy, because casualties usually averaged around 14%. All of which are peanuts beside the 25% casualty-rate for childbirth.)

Anyway; that means that a person could expect to have five or six full siblings. Only 1/32 or 1/64 people would have all brothers or all sisters, though; and only some people would have all of those siblings as younger siblings, or all of them as older siblings. But heraldry's "differencing" provides for up to the ninth son.

And of course a person might have half-siblings. Mr. A marries Ms. B and they have several kids and Mr. A dies; then Ms. B remarries, marrying Mr. C, and they have several kids, and then Ms. B dies; then Mr. C remarries, marrying Ms. D, and they have several kids. The offspring of A and B would have no "blood" in common with the offspring of C and D (unless A or B had "blood" in common with C or D), but probably still would have been called each others' "brothers" and/or "sisters".

Anyway I'm hoping for something that can handle a group of up to, say, seven or nine, before there are more group-members than there are terms.
Any group of more members than that, why not rely on ordinal (or cardinal) numerals?
But I'll be pretty happy with one that'll handle at least four, or maybe I'll hold out for "at least five".

And though Lambuzhao and Creyeditor (possibly among others; sorry if you slipped my mind for the moment) have proposed schemes that are sort of natlangish,


I don't think(?) anybody has answered my question? about whether (and how) your (or someone's) conlang does it (if it does)?*
Edit: *Oh f**k! Sorry, Corphishy; I just now re-read your post.

Edit:
Ear of the Sphinx wrote:I don't know how to make a URL out of a book, so I'll just cite a relevant fragment:
The tracks at the south of the city ran for about half a mile, ending in no particular place. There were four tracks, each consisting of two metal rails supported on timber sleepers which were in turn resting on sunken concrete foundations. Two of the tracks had already been considerably shortened by Malchuskin and his crew, and we were working on the longest one still extant, the one laid as right outer.

Malchuskin explained that if I assumed the city was to the front of us, the four tracks were identified by left and right, outer and inner in each case.
Thanks!
Last edited by eldin raigmore on 29 Sep 2014 21:51, edited 3 times in total.

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Lambuzhao
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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by Lambuzhao » 29 Sep 2014 21:12

I am seriously tempted to hijack at least some of Creyeditor's suggestions for my own Germanic conlang Sadraas. The whole business with /sam/, though interesting, is too hapaxlegomenal to work in my :con:, I'm afraid.

I also like Eldin's inchoative business *dextrescent and *sinistrescent, and may use those as the basis for laning in my :lat: :con:
Çedara.

Just some great ideas to mine here; THANKS, Eldin!

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Creyeditor
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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by Creyeditor » 30 Sep 2014 00:22

You could also go cardinal direction style (another post not containing any of my actual conlangs)
  • left, center, right
  • center-left, center-right
  • left-center-left, center-center-left, center-center-right, right-center-right
which would give you nine lanes.

However, to make it more naturalistic I would probably go by only 5 lanes (I love reduplicationtion)
  • left-left, center-left, center-center, center-right, right-right
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eldin raigmore
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Re: Hindmost, foremost, leftmost, rightmost, topmost, ….

Post by eldin raigmore » 01 Oct 2014 03:36

Creyeditor wrote:You could also go cardinal direction style (another post not containing any of my actual conlangs)
  • left, center, right
  • center-left, center-right
  • left-center-left, center-center-left, center-center-right, right-center-right
which would give you nine lanes.

However, to make it more naturalistic I would probably go by only 5 lanes (I love reduplicationtion)
  • left-left, center-left, center-center, center-right, right-right
Yeah, I was thinking about something like the "stanine" scale.
You have low low (1), medium low (2), high low (3), low medium (4), medium medium (5), high medium (6), low high (7), medium high (8), and high high (9).

Then there's how infantry and cavalry are termed.

For instance, infantry is light (hussars), medium (dragoons), or heavy (cataphracts).

But there can be light hussars, medium hussars and heavy hussars;
and light dragoons, and medium dragoons, and heavy dragoons;
and light cataphracts, and medium cataphracts, and heavy cataphracts.

When a similar classification is applied to infantry they are usually just:
light-light infantry, medium-light infantry, heavy-light infantry,
light-medium infantry, medium-medium infantry, heavy-medium infantry,
light-heavy infantry, medium-heavy infantry, heavy-heavy infantry.

I don't foresee a need to get more detailed.

But I have often wondered when people talk about North Central or South Central or East Central or West Central;
sometimes, for instance, East Central means something about halfway between East and Central,
but sometimes it means East but between North East and South East.
You could divide an area, such as a city, into, say, 13 (supposedly roughly equal-sized) districts;
an outer northern district,
an outer southern district,
an outer eastern district,
an outer western district,
a northeastern district (assumed outer),
a northwestern district (assumed outer),
a southeastern district (assumed outer),
a southwestern district (assumed outer),
a north central district,
a south central district,
an east central district,
a west central district,
and a central ("central central") district.

How would your conlang (or natlang, for that matter) handle the difference between South Asia, Central Asia, and South Central Asia, say?

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