Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

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cntrational
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Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by cntrational » 10 Nov 2014 06:28

A long time ago, I thought it would be fun to create a proto-language, then get a bunch of people to create a descendant based on that proto-language, creating a collab language family. Unfortunately, it didn't really work out, because we couldn't create a proto-language. But I think I want to try that idea again.

So, this thread will be for creating that proto-language; I'll ask questions, and people choose what would be interesting -- the usual way recent collablangs have been done. After the collablang is mostly complete, we use it as a proto-language to create descendant-langs on our own, creating a language family.

I'd want the proto-lang to be something that would lead to interesting descendants, so keep that in mind when choosing options.

So, let's begin: is the proto-language isolating, agglutinative, fusional, or other?

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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by Znex » 10 Nov 2014 06:37

Agglutinative
:eng: : [tick] | :grc: :wls: : [:|] | :chn: :isr: : [:S] | :nor: :deu: :rom: :ind: :con: : [:x]
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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by DesEsseintes » 10 Nov 2014 07:08

cntrational wrote:I'd want the proto-lang to be something that would lead to interesting descendants, so keep that in mind when choosing options.

So, let's begin: is the proto-language isolating, agglutinative, fusional, or other?
Síbíbíían should be agglutinative, as that lends itself easily to evolving into other types.

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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by Redaun » 10 Nov 2014 07:10

Znex wrote:Agglutinative
DesEsseintes wrote:Síbíbíían should be agglutinative, as that lends itself easily to evolving into other types.
I agree with the above. :I
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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by shimobaatar » 10 Nov 2014 07:23

Another [+1] to agglutinative.

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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by Shemtov » 10 Nov 2014 07:33

Fusional.
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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by k1234567890y » 10 Nov 2014 09:01

isolating or agglutinative
...

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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by stonyhonu » 10 Nov 2014 09:55

agglutinative.

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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by cntrational » 10 Nov 2014 14:29

Alright, agglutinative it is!

Let's go through the phonology now, starting with the stops.

How many places of articulation should the stops have? What phonations or secondary articulations? Any gaps?

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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by Dezinaa » 10 Nov 2014 14:45

The point of collablanging is of course collaborating, but a while ago I made a phoneme frequency list based on the random phonology thread. This would be close to the "average" conlang phonology, so I thought It would be appropriate for a CBBlang.

/m n ɲ ŋ/
/p t c k kʷ q ʔ/
/b d g/
/f v θ s z ʃ x ɣ h/
/ɾ r l j ʍ w/
/i u e ə o ɛ ɔ a/

But if you all don't want to use this, that's fine too.

I vote 4 POAs in the stops, aspiration, no gaps.

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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by QuantumWraith » 10 Nov 2014 14:46

/p ɓ t d t' ɗ ʈ ʈ' ɖ ᵑk ᵑg ᵑk' k g k' ʔ/

Edit: Preferrably just something glottalic. Gotta have 'em gloʔʔalizationz.
Last edited by QuantumWraith on 10 Nov 2014 15:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by DesEsseintes » 10 Nov 2014 15:28

I propose 6 PoAs with labialisation as the only secondary articulation on velars and post-velars. Or it could be expanded with ejectives and/or aspiration. Definitely no voicing contrast.

/p t ʈ~ʈʂ k kʷ q qʷ ʔ ʔʷ/

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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by Esmelthien » 10 Nov 2014 20:46

What about West Greenlandic with a palatal series, possible a front rounded or back unrounded vowel series? That's got a lot of room for change, I'd say.

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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by sangi39 » 10 Nov 2014 21:00

Esmelthien wrote:What about West Greenlandic with a palatal series, possible a front rounded or back unrounded vowel series? That's got a lot of room for change, I'd say.
I'd definitely agree with something like that, possibly with the inclusion of a glottal stop:

/p t c k q ʔ/

That could lead to a few interesting correspondences with the help of different mergers and shift in daughter languages, e.g.

1) /p t c k q ʔ/ > /p t t* k ʔ 0/ *through an intermediate /tɕ/ > laminal /ts/ > laminodental /s/ (similar to Spanish) > /θ/ > /t/ vs.
2) /p t c k q ʔ/ > /ʔ t ts ts k ʔ/ vs.
3) /p t c k q ʔ/ > /p t c k ʔ ʔ/

Each language collapses the original 6 POAs in 5, or 4 in the case of L1, but each one has a different set of shifts and mergers, meaning that there are few one-to-one correspondences between each language's plosive series.
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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by shimobaatar » 10 Nov 2014 23:07

Six points of articulation: /p t c k q ʔ/

Aspiration and labialization, only voiceless: /p pʰ pʷ t tʰ tʷ c cʰ cʷ k kʰ kʷ q qʰ qʷ ʔ ʔʰ ʔʷ/

No gaps.

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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by Dezinaa » 10 Nov 2014 23:13

shimobaatar wrote:Six points of articulation: /p t c k q ʔ/

Aspiration and labialization, only voiceless: /p pʰ pʷ t tʰ tʷ c cʰ cʷ k kʰ kʷ q qʰ qʷ ʔ ʔʰ ʔʷ/

No gaps.
This is a lot more interesting than mine.

I'm pretty sure (in natlangs, at least) that if there is /C/, /Cʰ/, and /Cʷ/, then there is most likely /Cʷʰ/.

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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by shimobaatar » 10 Nov 2014 23:15

Dezinaa wrote:
shimobaatar wrote:Six points of articulation: /p t c k q ʔ/

Aspiration and labialization, only voiceless: /p pʰ pʷ t tʰ tʷ c cʰ cʷ k kʰ kʷ q qʰ qʷ ʔ ʔʰ ʔʷ/

No gaps.
This is a lot more interesting than mine.

I'm pretty sure (in natlangs, at least) that if there is /C/, /Cʰ/, and /Cʷ/, then there is most likely /Cʷʰ/.
Thank you. [:)] But I really do like yours too.

I personally wouldn't put in /Cʷʰ/, but it's not up to me.

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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by Dezinaa » 10 Nov 2014 23:20

shimobaatar wrote:
Dezinaa wrote:
shimobaatar wrote:Six points of articulation: /p t c k q ʔ/

Aspiration and labialization, only voiceless: /p pʰ pʷ t tʰ tʷ c cʰ cʷ k kʰ kʷ q qʰ qʷ ʔ ʔʰ ʔʷ/

No gaps.
This is a lot more interesting than mine.

I'm pretty sure (in natlangs, at least) that if there is /C/, /Cʰ/, and /Cʷ/, then there is most likely /Cʷʰ/.
Thank you. [:)] But I really do like yours too.

I personally wouldn't put in /Cʷʰ/, but it's not up to me.
Ok. It could probably be explained by /Cˠ/ → /Cx/ → /Cʰ/.

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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by Creyeditor » 10 Nov 2014 23:28

I would vote for a gap, so that we don't have an aspirated glottal stop
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Re: Proto-CBBian: A collablang protolang and a collabfamily

Post by Shemtov » 10 Nov 2014 23:30

/b bˤ t tˤ d dˤ ʈ ʈˤ ɖ ɖˤ k g q/ for the stops.
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