Yabushionese (Basic conjunctions)

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Yabushionese (Basic conjunctions)

Post by clawgrip » 10 Jan 2015 13:56

I am working now on the details of Yabushionese, a Japonic language closely related to and partially mutually intelligible with Japanese and spoken in the nation of Yabushio. Just laying down some of my ideas here.

Phonology:

Vowels:
<i u e o a ọ> /i ɯ e o a ɔ/
<ī ū ē ō ā ọ̄> /iː ɯː eː oː aː ɔː/

<ọ> originates from middle Japanese /wo/ and non-initial /wa/.
<ọ̄> originates from middle Japanese /au/, /wou/, and non-initial /wau/.

Initial /e/ is always pronounced [je]. I will always write it as <ye>.

Consonants:
<m n n> /m n ɴ/
<p t k> /p t k/
<b d g> /b d ɡ/
<f s z sh ch j> /f s z ɕ ʨ ʥ/
<w j> /w j/
<r> /ɺ/
/Q/

Very similar to modern Japanese. Most notable is that Yabushionese has /f/ where modern Japanese has /h/ or nothing.

/ɴ/ is like modern Japanese in that it appears only in the coda, and will be realized as a homorganic nasal. I haven't decided yet if I want it to become nasalization before vowels and fricatives, as in modern Japanese, or if I will have it merge with /n/ in these cases. Still considering.

One departure from modern Japanese is that syllable-final /t/ is allowed. However, if /t/ is immediately followed by a voiceless consonant, it is realized as consonant gemination. If the proceeding consonant is a voiced consonant, it is realized as /n/. It remains /t/ before vowels. These will be marked explicitly in the Romanization.

There is a pitch accent like modern Japanese as well, which is lexical and functions the same way.

Some grammar points:
Yabushionese verbs are conjugated according to mostly different verb endings than are used in modern Japanese. For those who don't know much about older forms of Japanese, all verbs have six primary stems: irrealis, adverbial, conclusive, attributive, realis, and imperative. In old Japanese, only one verb in the entire language had a distinct form for each of the six stems; the rest had four or five. Modern Japanese verbs have five stem forms at most. I haven't decided the number of stems that will exist yet in Yabushionese. This depends on whether a verb ending will initiate a vowel change (which is what happened in modern Japanese to expand the quadrigrade verbs to quinquegrade).

Each verb ending needs to be attached to a specific stem. Some examples of verb endings:

Past tense: -ke (modern Japanese: -ta)
Perfect: -ta (perfect lost in modern Japanese, -ta ending is now regular past tense)
Imperfect: -me (nonexistent in modern Japanese)
Negative: -zu (modern Japanese: -nai, though -zu still exists)
Polite: -faberu (modern Japanese: -masu)

examples:
plain
取る toru - take
取っけ tokke - took
取った totta - has taken
取りめ torime - is taking
取らず torazu - do not take

polite
取り侍る torifaberu - take
取り侍っけ torifabekke - took
取り侍った torifabetta - has taken
取り侍りめ torifaberime - is taking
取り侍らず torifaberazu - is not taking

Still working on which verb endings will be included, and how they will be formed and used.

Generally, every verb ending has its own stem form for the six stems just like regular verbs (though many have only five, because they lack an imperative stem).

For example, the ending -ke has the following stems:
irrealis: -kera
adverbial: -kei
conclusive: -ke
attributive: -ket
realis: -kere
(no imperative)

The reason each ending has all these stems is so that other verb endings can be stacked on the end of them. Examples:
待つ matsu - wait
待っけ makke - waited
待ちたし machitashi - want to wait
待たず matazu - doesn't wait
待っけらず makkerazu - didn't wait
待ちたかっけらず machitakakkerazu - didn't want to wait

待つっ坊や matsun bọ̄ya - a boy who waits
待っけっ坊や makket bọ̄ya - a boy who waited
待つけらずっ坊や makkerazun bọ̄ya - a boy who didn't wait
待ちたかっけらずっ坊や machitakakkerazun bọ̄ya - a boy who didn't want to wait
坊や、待ちたかっけらざり侍る bọ̄ya, machitakakkerazarifaberu - The boy didn't want to wait (polite form).

In modern Japanese, two verb classes replaced their conclusive forms with the attributive forms, and the attributive as a distinct grammatical element was subsequently lost in everything except the copula. In Yabushionese, the conclusive form is retained in these two classes.

見る miru - see (JA: miru) (upper-monograde)
起く oku - get up (JA: okiru) (upper-bigrade)
食ぶ tabu - eat (JA: taberu) (lower-bigrade)
寝 nu - sleep (JA: neru) (lower-bigrade)

In the few example forms we've seen:
見る, 見け, 見た, 見め, 見ず, 見侍る
miru, mike, mita, mime, mizu, mifaberu
起く, 起っけ, 起きた, 起きめ, 起きず, 起き侍る
oku, okke, okita, okime, okizu, okifaberu
食ぶ, 食べけ, 食べた, 食べめ, 食べず, 食べ侍る
tabu, tabeke, tabeta, tabeme, tabezu, tabefaberu
寝, 寝け, 寝た, 寝め, 寝ず, 寝侍る
nu, neke, neta, neme, nezu, nefaberu

The attributive form has been entirely regularized to -t:

肉を食べめ - niku ọ tabeme "I am eating meat"
食べめっ肉 - tabemen niku "the meat (I) am eating)

あの人、知らず - ano fito, shirazu "I don't know that person"
知らざっ人 - shirazaf fito "a person I don't know"

この映畫、見た kono yeiga, mita "I have seen this movie"
見たっ映畫 - mitach-eiga "a movie (I) have seen" (the /tj/ sequence from mitat + yeiga has become /ʨ/)

The topic marker は fa is more frequently dropped than in modern Japanese.

I haven't decided what I want to do about the script. I am considering having entirely different hiragana, and possibly identical katakana. The kanji will not be simplified according to the simplifications of the 1940s, and thus will all be traditional forms.
Last edited by clawgrip on 10 Feb 2016 11:29, edited 8 times in total.

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by Iparxi_Zoi » 10 Jan 2015 23:50

Finally! Another a posteriori conlang! It sounds like an interesting project, seeing as how Japanese is a very complex and difficult language.

Where did you find resources on Old Japanese?

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by shimobaatar » 10 Jan 2015 23:52

Iparxi_Zoi wrote:Finally! Another a posteriori conlang!
Keep your eyes peeled, you'll find you have a lot more company. [:)]

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by spikedee » 10 Jan 2015 23:58

Oooh, nice! I really love this so far. Very well researched and thought out.
native:  :eng: :esp:  |  fluent:  :fra:  |  competent:  :fin: :lfn:  |  passive/read:  :est: :grc: :hun: :ita: :lat: :por:

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by DesEsseintes » 11 Jan 2015 00:41

Looks interesting! I especially like the use of 侍り instead of 申す in the polite forms. Gives a lovely archaic feel.
In old Japanese, only one verb in the entire language had a distinct form for each of the six stems; the rest had four or five.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't 往ぬ and 死ぬ both have six distinct stems? That would still be only two verbs...(I don't have my Classical Japanese dictionary with me I'm afraid, so I can't check myself...)

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by clawgrip » 11 Jan 2015 02:37

Yes indeed, 往ぬ/去ぬ is also a na-gyo irregular verb, so there are two. They kind of mean the same thing though.

I get my information for Old Japanese from the Internet and various books I own. The information for Late Middle Japanese, which I am mostly basing this one off of, comes from the English and Japanese Wikipedia pages, and other various sites.

The imperfect conjugation -me comes from the verb ending -meri, which is actually an evidential meaning "it seems/looks to be this way". I decided I wanted to add an imperfect just to make it different, and this seemed like the best choice.

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by clawgrip » 11 Jan 2015 14:52

I've made a completely different set of hiragana for Yabushionese. I am on the fence as to whether or not I want to use it though, because if I do, then I will only have the one font, whereas using normal Japanese hiragana will allow me to use pre-existing Japanese fonts.

Anyway, here it is:

Image

Just to be clear, for the most part I didn't design these glyphs myself. There are a couple I did design myself, a few more I modified slightly, and bunch I just took from elsewhere and dropped them in as is.

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by Lao Kou » 11 Jan 2015 15:23

clawgrip wrote:I've made a completely different set of hiragana for Yabushionese... Just to be clear, for the most part I didn't design these glyphs myself. There are a couple I did design myself, a few more I modified slightly, and bunch I just took from elsewhere and dropped them in as is.
ね for "ku" and ふ for "ru" gots to go, IMNSHO. え for "mi" looks a little different, and I could see it hailing from 美. All the others, even if I guess wrong, I think I can discern valid originating characters for. Maybe I'm just stuck in the box on ね and ふ. What could the character link to ku and ru be?
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by clawgrip » 11 Jan 2015 15:37

the ね-style く comes from 求. The ふ-style る comes from 累. The え-style み is from 見.

All three of them are further simplifications of real hentaigana.

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by clawgrip » 11 Jan 2015 15:50

Might as well give you all of them:
Spoiler:
阿 可 散 多 名 八 馬 哉 良 倭 无
意 支 斯 千 爾 非 見   里 井
有 求 寿 頭 奴 婦 無 由 累
得 計 世 傳 年 変 面   麗 衛
於 古 所 土 迺 本 毛 与 呂 越
Looking through these, I actually made a lot more modifications than I remember. I'm not really happy with what I did with つ though. I might change that.

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by Lao Kou » 11 Jan 2015 16:16

clawgrip wrote:Might as well give you all of them:
Did pretty well in the guess department, though I really had 飛 pegged for "fi". I love the 井. Anyway, out of the box, carry on. [;)]
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Re: Yabushionese

Post by Ketumak » 11 Jan 2015 17:28

Interesting verb and nice hiragana. I don't see why you couldn't have both your hiragana and normal Japanese ones, due to centuries of political or cultural dominance by Japan and perhaps not have any katakana. I can't think of a story to justify borrowing one Japanese system and not the other, though.

A couple of point strike me: You say the negative of the verb ends in -zu, yet z doesn't appear in the phoneme set and there are no zV syllables in the hiragana.

Also, what's the situation with /Q/? You offer no romanisation of it.
Good: :fra: :esp: :por: | OK :ita:

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 11 Jan 2015 17:36

I love everything about this! I'll have to look through this more closely when I have more time to do so.

You should make a goal of creating a sans serif version of the nu-ragana (new+hiragana) ASAP!
Image

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by shimobaatar » 11 Jan 2015 17:41

Ketumak wrote:Also, what's the situation with /Q/? You offer no romanisation of it.
If I remember correctly from the times I've read about Japanese phonology, it's used as a chroneme/archiphoneme of sorts, representing gemination of the following consonant. I'd assume the usage is similar/the same here.

/niQpoɴ/ > /nippoɴ/
Ketumak wrote:A couple of point strike me: You say the negative of the verb ends in -zu, yet z doesn't appear in the phoneme set and there are no zV syllables in the hiragana.
Something similar to rendaku, perhaps?

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by clawgrip » 12 Jan 2015 01:27

The answer is simple: I made a mistake, /z/ is a phoneme, but I forgot to include it in the list. I've added it now.

As for katakana, as I understand it, the glyph inventory was standardized in the middle Heian period (so somewhere between 800-1000 CE), which explains why the two countries would have the same katakana but different hiragana, since hiragana was standardized in 1900.

Indeed, shimobaatar is right about /Q/. I should have explained it. However, it might do well to eliminate it, since it could easily be merged with syllable-final /t/ without much trouble.

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by clawgrip » 12 Jan 2015 13:14

First I think I need to make clear what is meant by quadrigrade, and upper- and lower- monograde and bigrade, since these appear frequently in descriptions of this language. As I think I mentioned already, every verb conjugates into six stems which are used to further conjugate verbs. They are inherited from older forms of Japanese, and the names quadrigrade, bigrade, and monograde refer to the number of unique stems, or more specifically, the number of unique vowels that can appear at the end of the various stems, ignoring the additional suffixes that are inherent to some stems. Here are all the forms, with examples:

yodan / quadrigrade: 賣る uru "sell"
irrealis: ura
adverbial: uri
conclusive: uru
attributive: uru-t
realis: ure
imperative: ure
Four stem-final vowels appear: a, i, u, e, hence quadrigrade.

kami-ichidan / upper monograde: 見る miru "see"
irrealis: mi
adverbial: mi(-i)
conclusive: mi-ru
attributive: mi-ru-t
realis: mi-re
imperative: mi-re
One stem-final vowel appears: i, hence monograde. Additional suffixes are ignored for this. Upper refers to the fact that <i> comes before <e> (of lower grade verbs) alphabetically, and in a kana chart, it is located above <e>

shimo-ichidan / lower-monograde:
Only one verb in this category: 蹴る keru "kick"
irrealis: ke-
adverbial: ke(-i)
conclusive: ke-ru
attributive: ke-ru-t
realis: ke-re
imperative-ke-re
One stem-final vowel appears: e, hence monograde. As mentioned above, "lower" refers to the fact that <e> appears visually lower in an alphabetic chart than <i>, the upper vowel.

kami-nidan / upper bigrade: 上ぐ agu "raise"
irrealis: age-
adverbial: age(-i)
conclusive: agu
attributive: agu-t
realis: age-
imperative-age-re
Two vowels appear: e, u, hence bigrade.


Now that that's out of the way, we can look at the details of the past tense (-ke):

forms:
irrealis: -kera
adverbial: -kei
conclusive: -ke
attributive: -ket
realis: -kere
imperative: none

The past tense suffix is attached to the adverbial stem of all verb forms. Unlike modern Japanese, the past tense comes before the negative.

For yodan (quadrigrade) verbs, with stops and voiced consonants, -ke initiates onbin (euphonic change) that results in the removal of the adverbial -i and either gemination of /k/ with stops, or addition of /n/ with voiced consonants:

Stops:
書く kaku "write"
書っけ kakke "wrote"

待つ matsu "wait"
待っけ makke "waited"

Voiced consonants:
泳ぐ oyogu "swim"
泳んけ oyonke "swam"

死ぬ shinu "die"
死んけ shinke "died"

喜ぶ yorokobu "is pleased"
喜んけ yorokonke "was pleased"

止む yamu "end"
止んけ yanke "ended"

凍る koforu "freeze"
凍んけ kofonke "froze"

No onbin (preservation of adverbial -i):
話す hanasu "speak"
話しけ hanashike "spoke"

買ふ kafu "sell"
買ひけ kafike "sold"

For ichidan (monograde) and nidan (bigrade) verbs, there is no onbin:

kami-ichidan (upper monograde)
見る miru "see"
見け mike "saw"

shimo-nidan (lower monograde)
蹴る keru "kick"
蹴け keke "kicked"

kami-nidan (upper bigrade)
借る karu "borrow"
借りけ karike "borrowed"

shimo-nidan (lower biograde)
寢 nu "sleep"
寢け neke "slept"

The past tense of the copula is にっけ or なっけ (depending on the geographic location).

Examples:
昨年、日本へ行っけ。
Sanen, Nifon be ikke.
last-year, Japan to go.PST
"I went to Japan last year."

深う寢けっけん減氣なや。
Fukọ̄ neke-k-ken genki na ya.
deep-adv sleep-PST so recovered COP EMPH
"I slept soundly so I'm refreshed and ready now."
(geminate /k/ appears on the conjunction because of the sequence ke+ke)

昨日、爺婆會ひけらず。
Kinofu, jībā afikerazu.
yesterday grandparents meet-ADV-PST-IRR-NEG
"I didn't see my grandparents yesterday."

市場、こっほど静かにっけや。
Ichiba, koffodo shizuka nikke ya.
marketplace very quite COP.ADV-PST EMPH
"The market was really quiet."

少き前、報告書を讀んけい侍る。
Sukoki mafe, fōkokushọ̄ yonkeifaberu.
Report.ACC read-PST-ADV-POL
"I read the report a short time ago."
(o + ọ results here in a vowel merger)
Last edited by clawgrip on 14 Jan 2015 05:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by DesEsseintes » 12 Jan 2015 13:45

This is really interesting and fun! I like how such minimal tweaking of the phonology can alter so much. You inspire me to start a Japonic lang of my own, although I want mine to diverge much earlier, possibly in the Nara period
(8th century for those unfamiliar w Japanese history).

Is /ɯ/ realised the same way as in Japanese?
Spoiler:
爺婆
jībā

That feels like such an infelicitous choice to Chinese speakers...

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by clawgrip » 12 Jan 2015 13:58

It's fun because to me this really sounds like it could be some obscure dialect of Japanese (I hear them on TV from time to time). The reason is because the verbs in dialects are always weird, so you can sometimes get the gist of it but sometimes be totally confused. Like I'm sure "Ichiba, koffodo shizuka nikke ya" would be readily understood by native Japanese speakers, but "afikerazu" and "yonkeifaberu" are impenetrable.

/ɯ/ is realized the same as regular Japanese.

As for 爺 (jiji) and 婆 (baba), in modern Japanese they are the standard kanji for grandfather and grandmother, which can also be used to mean old man and old woman. These words are complex though and have a lot of variations. They can be plain, insulting, or affectionate.

ojiisan and obāsan equally can be grandfather/grandmother or old man/old woman
ojiichan and obāchan are the same, but more affectionate. Often used even with people you don't know, but not so much if you are talking directly to them.
jiichan and bāchan are even more affectionate, and most likely to be referring to actual grandparents in your family
jiji and baba are common affectionate terms when referring to your own family members, but kind of insulting when referring to other people.
jiiji and bāba I think I have only heard children say, or adults when talking to children, and only in reference to their own family members.
ojii and obā are also possible for your family members, but they don't seem to fit for people outside your family.
jijii and babā I don't know, they seem insulting in general I think.

jiibā as I've used it here would be understandable even in regular Japanese as referring to my own grandparents.

What are they in Chinese, just wretched old man and woman?

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by DesEsseintes » 12 Jan 2015 14:17

clawgrip wrote:What are they in Chinese, just wretched old man and woman?
jībā (or jība) means penis in Mandarin. [:P]

The Kanji are harmless:

爺/爷 means grandfather just like in Japanese, and is also an acceptable form of address for an older gentleman.

can mean old woman but is also commonly used in the colloquial word for wife 老婆. Apparently, it can also mean grandmother although I believe this usage to be obsolete.

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Re: Yabushionese

Post by clawgrip » 13 Jan 2015 13:50

Perfect
The perfect (-ta):

forms:
irrealis: -tara
adverbial: -tai, (colloquially -tā)
conclusive: -ta
attributive: -tat
realis: -tare
imperative: none

The perfect is added to the adverbial form of verbs. The perfect can be confusing for Japanese speakers, because on the surface, it is mostly identical to the modern Japanese past tense, as they both descended from old Japanese -tari. However, Yabushionese -ta is used only for the perfect aspect (which modern Japanese lacks as a distinct form).

The onbin is the same as -ke, except that -ta voices to -da after -n:

Stops:
書く kaku "write"
書った katta "have written"

待つ matsu "wait"
待った matta "have waited"

Voiced consonants:
泳ぐ oyogu "swim"
泳んだ oyonda "have swum"

死ぬ shinu "die"
死んだ shinda "have died"

喜ぶ yorokobu "is pleased"
喜んだ yorokonda "have been pleased"

止む yamu "end"
止んだ yanda "have ended"

切る kiru "cut"
切った kitta "has cut"

No onbin (preservation of adverbial -i):
話す hanasu "speak"
話した hanashita "have spoken"

買ふ kafu "sell"
買ひた kafita "have sold"

For ichidan (monograde) and nidan (bigrade) verbs, there is no onbin:

kami-ichidan (upper monograde)
見る miru "see"
見た mita "have seen"

shimo-nidan (lower monograde)
蹴る keru "kick"
蹴た keta "have kicked"

kami-nidan (upper bigrade)
借る karu "borrow"
借りた karita "have borrowed"

shimo-nidan (lower biograde)
寢 nu "sleep"
寢た neta "have slept"

Examples:

この映畫、見た。
Kono yeiga, mita.
PROX.ATTR movie see-PERF
"I've seen this movie."

否否、フランスへは行ったらずや。
Iya iya, Furansu fe fa ittarazu ya.
no no, France to TOP go.PERF-IRR-NEG EMPH
No no, I haven't been to France.

35時間じいと寝たず。
Sanjifugojikan jīto netazu.
thirtyfive-hour-period throughout sleep-PERF-NEG
"I haven't slept for 35 hours."

劇に行きたうけんど舞ひ止んだな。
Geki ni ikitọ̄kendo mafiyanda na.
show to go-VOL.PST-but perform-stop-PERF EMPH
"I wanted to see the show, but they've stopped performing it."

今までの話し、全う追ひ來たずやね。
Ima made no hanashi, mattọ̄ ofikitazu ya ne.
now until GEN conversation, entirely follow-PST-NEG EMPH HORT
"You haven't followed anything I've said so far, have you?"

何何回も遣ったあ、凡凡にっけ。
Nan-nankai mo yattā, bonbon nikke.
how.many-time even do.PERF-ADV boring COP-PST
"It was boring because I've already done it so many times."

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