Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

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cedh
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Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by cedh » 17 Jan 2015 17:13

Here's a challenge to all of you:

Reconstruct as much as you can of the latest common ancestor of the T1 language family of Akana!

This language family (obviously, the name is a placeholder until one of you can come up with a reasonable real name) has been created over the three or four years by several people, starting from a protolanguage that has been kept secret up to now. It is spoken in the southeastern part of the continent Tuysáfa. The languages in question are the following, listed roughly from southwest to northeast:
NB: There seems to be a technical problem with the current version of Firefox on Mac OS X, which may crash when visiting a wiki page that contains certain special characters in its title. It happened to me on the Hkətl’ohnim page, for example. If that should happen to you, use Chrome instead.

Almost all of the relevant apparent lexical cognates have already been compiled in the following publicly editable spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... sp=sharing

For most languages, the spreadsheet doesn't use the regular orthography but a variant that's closer to IPA. Morphophonological notation conventions have been retained, however, because they may prove useful for the reconstruction. Feel free to sort the sheet differently, or to move around items where you think you have found another cognate. Note that only a small part of the languages' morphology has already been included in the spreadsheet.

Here's a basic linguistic map of the region, with languages from the main two local families named (T1 languages in bright green, Dumic languages in red).

Your tasks:
  • Figure out regular sound correspondences between the various T1 languages.
  • Figure out the probable phoneme inventory of Proto-T1.
  • Reconstruct as many lexical items as possible. (There are about 500 words in the comparative spreadsheed which do have exact counterparts in at least one other branch of the family, but most of the other words also have a valid etymology in the protolanguage. Not all of the words are inherited though; some T1 languages contain loanwords from each other, from nearby Dumic languages, or from a few undescribed languages of the Macro-Anatolionesian family.)
  • Reconstruct the basic nominal and verbal morphology of Proto-T1. (The languages are quite divergent grammatically, with the protolanguage probably dating back more than 3000 years, but there should be enough data to work with.)
  • Reconstruct the most important sound changes from Proto-T1 to its descendant languages.
You can discuss all of this here in this thread, of course. This is intended as a group project, so work together, share observations, and motivate each other to discover new things! I've also announced the same challenge over at the ZBB though, because the whole Akana conworld has mostly been a ZBB-based project, so if you also have a ZBB account you may want to post your ideas over there to keep everything in one place.

Also, just so you know, thedukeofnuke has already done some work towards reconstructing Proto-T1, of which you can find a summary here. He doesn't have the time to finish it on his own (that's why we're proposing it as an open challenge now), but I'm quite sure he'll chime in on the ZBB thread when some other people are getting started with the project.

Have fun!

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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by shimobaatar » 17 Jan 2015 23:52

I've heard about this whole Akana project now and again, but I've never been sure about exactly what it is. Nevertheless, this looks like an interesting challenge. I don't have anything really constructive to contribute at this moment, but I'm making this post to remind myself to give all of this a closer look once I have a bigger chunk of free time.

Good luck to everyone. [:)]

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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by Ear of the Sphinx » 18 Jan 2015 05:35

Also, just to be sure, the information regarding Old Yalan is far from complete at the moment, as can be seen, and would probably need to be updated. So, if you have any question about it, feel free to contact me.

* * *

And, as a teaser, several of the already gathered cognate sets, rendered as a table:
(some of them can be wrongly connected)

Image

Image
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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by Birdlang » 18 Jan 2015 23:25

Maybe

/p b t d c ɟ k g/ p b t d ț ḑ k g
/f v θ ð s z ɬ ɮ ʃ ʒ ç ʝ x ɣ h/ f v þ ð s z ŀ ļ š ž ś ź ḫ ǥ h
/r l j w/ r l y w
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ñ ň
/i u/ i u
/e ə ə̃ o õ/ e ĕ ę o ǫ
/a ã æ ɒ/ a ą æ ø
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ

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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by Birdlang » 18 Jan 2015 23:26

Ear of the Sphinx wrote:Also, just to be sure, the information regarding Old Yalan is far from complete at the moment, as can be seen, and would probably need to be updated. So, if you have any question about it, feel free to contact me.

* * *

And, as a teaser, several of the already gathered cognate sets, rendered as a table:
(some of them can be wrongly connected)

Image

Image
Is the font Gentium Plus? I have it on my computer.
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ

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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by Ear of the Sphinx » 19 Jan 2015 00:20

It is some of the Gentium family.
Birdlang wrote:Maybe

/p b t d c ɟ k g/ p b t d ț ḑ k g
/f v θ ð s z ɬ ɮ ʃ ʒ ç ʝ x ɣ h/ f v þ ð s z ŀ ļ š ž ś ź ḫ ǥ h
/r l j w/ r l y w
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ñ ň
/i u/ i u
/e ə ə̃ o õ/ e ĕ ę o ǫ
/a ã æ ɒ/ a ą æ ø
Nice, what is it for?

* * *

By the way, here's the comparison text of the language family:

http://akana.conlang.org/wiki/The_young_lion
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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by Dezinaa » 19 Jan 2015 15:20

Birdlang wrote:Maybe

/p b t d c ɟ k g/ p b t d ț ḑ k g
/f v θ ð s z ɬ ɮ ʃ ʒ ç ʝ x ɣ h/ f v þ ð s z ŀ ļ š ž ś ź ḫ ǥ h
/r l j w/ r l y w
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ñ ň
/i u/ i u
/e ə ə̃ o õ/ e ĕ ę o ǫ
/a ã æ ɒ/ a ą æ ø
How did you come up with this? If this is what you think Proto-T1's phonemic inventory was, what do you think the main sound changes were from Proto-T1 to the daughter languages?

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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by Ear of the Sphinx » 19 Jan 2015 21:12

Heh:
JANKO GORENC wrote:Hi,

Please you tell me if you'll have numbers from Iščethē.
Could you please send me numbers from 1 to 10?

Thank you for your help!

Janko Gorenc
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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by Linguifex » 28 May 2015 00:32

Bumping this because I want people to work on this. I like Teyetáti.
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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by qwed117 » 28 May 2015 02:22

Well, I'd bet my money that Old Yalan is the closest to the ancestral language based on this table.
Edit: According to the docs provided in OP, Iscethe and Old Yalan are the closest
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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by qwed117 » 28 May 2015 02:50

Here are some of my guesses for the cognates
  • no:
  • nec
  • sa:
  • kjep
  • ʐe:
  • tokh
Omari and Tumetiek are very closely related. Tumetiek has diverged more from the common ancestor however.
Teyetati and Iscethe are also very closely related.
Tari may be related to Teyati
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.

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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by qwed117 » 28 May 2015 02:59

I also don't think that nasalized vowels exist. They only appear in one language, around a solitary nasal.
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.

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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by shimobaatar » 28 May 2015 06:51

When this was first posted, I commented to remind myself to give this a shot once I had more time… well, I haven't had a lot of free time recently, but summer is coming up, so I'm glad this has been brought back to the first page.

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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by qwed117 » 08 Jul 2015 22:48

shimobaatar wrote:When this was first posted, I commented to remind myself to give this a shot once I had more time… well, I haven't had a lot of free time recently, but summer is coming up, so I'm glad this has been brought back to the first page.
I'm bumping this for you!
Here are some gaps that I'm noticing in some of the languages. In Tari, where nasalization of vowels is only present around full nasals, the word <pvah> has a nasalized "a" and no nearby nasal, proving the existance of a nearby nasal. Based on the other cognates, this n is before the a.
I also made a chart of a father-mother isogloss. Old Yalan has interesting palatalization that might put it in a weird position.
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.

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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by loglorn » 11 Jul 2015 02:36

There doesn't seem to be much information about Tari and Iščethē. That may make for weird reconstructions.

Holidays are coming, so expect me having time to work on that. I took a look at it a just after it was posted, but i'm only having time from next week on.
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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by qwed117 » 16 Sep 2015 02:41

I'm still trying to work on this
qwed117 wrote:Here are some of my guesses for the cognates
  • no:
  • nec
  • sa:
  • kjep
  • ʐe:
  • tokh
Omari and Tumetiek are very closely related. Tumetiek has diverged more from the common ancestor however.
Teyetati and Iscethe are also very closely related.
Tari may be related to Teyati
Looking back on the chart for 2, I think that Teyetati exhibits Hawaiian k-? shift, but that leads us to ask why atS is not a?. That leads me to suspect that (as old Yalan tells us) that the proto-cognate for atch comes from a palato-velar k, like N_jag_ja. This isn't too far fetched. In addition, we can see that old Yalan has no J, so Jag_ja is also a possibility.
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.

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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by cedh » 01 Mar 2016 23:30

In case anyone's still interested in this reconstruction challenge, here's some new material for you: I've revisited Hkətl’ohnim and finally finished translating the sample text, which also involved adding a few new words to the lexicon.

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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by Caleone » 15 Mar 2016 15:45

Here's also the current NEB lang lexicon, I've taken the liberty of updating some of the info in the comparison lexicon document already.

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Re: Protolang Reconstruction Challenge (Akana)

Post by qwed117 » 04 Apr 2016 21:41

qwed117 wrote:Here are some of my guesses for the cognates
  • no:
  • nec
  • sa:
  • kjep
  • ʐe:
  • tokh
Omari and Tumetiek are very closely related. Tumetiek has diverged more from the common ancestor however.
Teyetati and Iscethe are also very closely related.
Tari may be related to Teyati
So here's my main guesses from 1 - 10 (q is an unknown quality)
1) no:
2) ŋʲakʲ
3) sa:
4) kqep
5) rʲe
6) tokq
7) mul
8) pqʲe
9) ola:
10)endqqa
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.

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