Two Writing systems. One syllabary and one for clay tablets

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fiziwig
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Two Writing systems. One syllabary and one for clay tablets

Post by fiziwig » 29 Nov 2010 22:34

Two Systems of Writing
-----------------------
The first system is "binary cuneiform" and uses a single vertical line with short horizontals in any of three positions either left or right from the center line. If one-sided glyphs are permitted there are 63 symbols. If symbols are required to have at least one horizontal on each side of the vertical line then there are 49 possible symbols.

(I was once mercilessly flamed at the Z-word place for calling this "cuneiform" since it's not "wedge shaped", but that was a reference to the method of impressing writing in wet clay, not the shape of the letters.)

Image

The second method is a syllabary designed so that each symbol joins with the next so that a single word becomes a single joined glyph. This one has a font available for download at http://fiziwig.com/conlang/kunu/index.html and since the whole syllabary is available on that page I'll just show a small sample of it here:

Image

--gary

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Re: Two Writing systems. One syllabary and one for clay tabl

Post by MrKrov » 29 Nov 2010 22:51

Um, which one of these would you call flaming?
Torco : are those the actual letters or the letterforms? I think they would look amazing brushed, or written with a calligraphy quill, or somehow stilized; maybe serifs?
---
Azulene: Why are the d and m-series derived by adding the y-marker to the t and n-series? Deriving the sh-series from the s-series makes sense, but these don't. I'd expect /m/ to rather be w + n. And does the former have something to do with /d/ being your only voiced stop? (Or is it a voiced stop at all?)
---
Abugida: Okay. while I like your letter shapes and I think that the modifying diacritics are Japanese-esque, I have a question for you.

In the "Third and a half draft" header's transliteration into your syllabary, the letter forms seem to be merging together. Is this intentional, in which case I think it would be really cool to make it into a cursive-ish script, or is it some sort of bug?

Anyway, I think that this is a very interesting script...Wait...one more question...Are there any rules for the behavior of the "w" diacritic?

Best wishes for your script!
---
Abugida: Okay, like a cuneiform-type script, except obviously not incised with that kind of stylus, right? Pretty cool.

I kind of like that idea of having the letters fuse together. I haven't utilized this in my conscripts so far, but maybe I will!

Keep us posted on the evolution of your conscript!
---
Ollock : Tangential question, does Fontstruct allow you to map to Unicode points, or only to replace the standard Latin set? It looks a lot easier to use than other font programs I've seen, especially with editing images right in the font creator.

Ollock : Hmm, looks like I'd still need something else. It's important for me to map to Unicode, as I have more glyphs than are available in Latin-1 (unless this allows you to create syllable blocks a la Hangeul, which I doubt).
---
Absolem: I downloaded the font, I really like it. It seems sci-fi but it's not as if its screaming «I'm-from-Stargate-SG1-and-I-make-no-sense-at-all», it's nice and easy
---
Kereb : wtf, fiziwig?

---Igos Du Ikana.

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Re: Two Writing systems. One syllabary and one for clay tabl

Post by fiziwig » 29 Nov 2010 23:05

MrKrov wrote:Um, which one of these would you call flaming?
Torco : are those the actual letters or the letterforms? I think they would look amazing brushed, or written with a calligraphy quill, or somehow stilized; maybe serifs?
---
Azulene: Why are the d and m-series derived by adding the y-marker to the t and n-series? Deriving the sh-series from the s-series makes sense, but these don't. I'd expect /m/ to rather be w + n. And does the former have something to do with /d/ being your only voiced stop? (Or is it a voiced stop at all?)
---
Abugida: Okay. while I like your letter shapes and I think that the modifying diacritics are Japanese-esque, I have a question for you.

In the "Third and a half draft" header's transliteration into your syllabary, the letter forms seem to be merging together. Is this intentional, in which case I think it would be really cool to make it into a cursive-ish script, or is it some sort of bug?

Anyway, I think that this is a very interesting script...Wait...one more question...Are there any rules for the behavior of the "w" diacritic?

Best wishes for your script!
---
Abugida: Okay, like a cuneiform-type script, except obviously not incised with that kind of stylus, right? Pretty cool.

I kind of like that idea of having the letters fuse together. I haven't utilized this in my conscripts so far, but maybe I will!

Keep us posted on the evolution of your conscript!
---
Ollock : Tangential question, does Fontstruct allow you to map to Unicode points, or only to replace the standard Latin set? It looks a lot easier to use than other font programs I've seen, especially with editing images right in the font creator.

Ollock : Hmm, looks like I'd still need something else. It's important for me to map to Unicode, as I have more glyphs than are available in Latin-1 (unless this allows you to create syllable blocks a la Hangeul, which I doubt).
---
Absolem: I downloaded the font, I really like it. It seems sci-fi but it's not as if its screaming «I'm-from-Stargate-SG1-and-I-make-no-sense-at-all», it's nice and easy
---
Kereb : wtf, fiziwig?

---Igos Du Ikana.
None of the above. If you had found the flames you'd have known it! :-D

In fact it was those flames, the ones you haven't quoted above, that were the last straw for me at the Z-name place. I just finally got tired of being insulted and verbally abused over there. Sure, there are some nice people over there, but there are just enough bad apples to spoil the barrel as far as I'm concerned.

I prefer CBB were we have a community that's really a community, in the very best sense of the word.

--gary

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Re: Two Writing systems. One syllabary and one for clay tabl

Post by Ghoster » 29 Nov 2010 23:19

The first system is "binary cuneiform"...
Okay, stop, that's ugly. I really want say something good about it, but that's looks like Tengwar (well, Tengwar is little better), all letters looks the same, who normal can read this? I think you use all possible combinations, you must be one of those crazy Japanese people.
The second method is a syllabary designed so that each symbol joins with the next so that a single word becomes a single joined glyph. This one has a font available for download at http://fiziwig.com/conlang/kunu/index.html and since the whole syllabary is available on that page I'll just show a small sample of it here:
...But this is actually really good. Little like Korean Hangeul of something, you know. That one is nice, You can write on it some long text? Like... Really long. :D
Absolem: I downloaded the font, I really like it. It seems sci-fi but it's not as if its screaming «I'm-from-Stargate-SG1-and-I-make-no-sense-at-all», it's nice and easy
...True.
Image

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Re: Two Writing systems. One syllabary and one for clay tabl

Post by MrKrov » 29 Nov 2010 23:21

I included the post by Kereb immediately following your removal. The rest were just reactionary "Why he'd remove everything"-esque. Whatever flames you were talking about don't seem to be in that thread.

--Gor Ebizo

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Re: Two Writing systems. One syllabary and one for clay tabl

Post by Micamo » 29 Nov 2010 23:30

Hey Krov. I know you're making fun of fiziwig but, seriously, it's not cool. Stop it.

--Micamo
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Re: Two Writing systems. One syllabary and one for clay tabl

Post by MrKrov » 29 Nov 2010 23:41

I am compelled to put aggrandizing names as a signature as a response to everyone who does this. I'm procedurally fair.

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Re: Two Writing systems. One syllabary and one for clay tabl

Post by jseamus » 29 Nov 2010 23:45

MrKrov wrote:I am compelled to put aggrandizing names as a signature as a response to everyone who does this. I'm procedurally fair.

--Knuckle
How is "gary" aggrandizing? That's his first name. And what good purpose does your derailing serve?
This is the world.

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Re: Two Writing systems. One syllabary and one for clay tabl

Post by Ceresz » 29 Nov 2010 23:48

Anyway, I actually like the first script better than the second, even though it's not as varied. If you tilted it to the right and added vowel markers it reminds me of one of my old conscripts.

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Re: Two Writing systems. One syllabary and one for clay tabl

Post by MrKrov » 29 Nov 2010 23:49

I didn't say gary was; I said I'm putting in the aggrandizing names, obviously for me. I didn't bring this up. Micamo did. You're just futher derailing.

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Re: Two Writing systems. One syllabary and one for clay tabl

Post by dwnielsen » 30 Nov 2010 19:00

Binary cuneiform is nice - like it more than Dutil & Dumas. Why not the empty staff in the first place, or is that so that the staves can be joined vertically as a single line? Or would it just not fit the pattern to your liking?

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Re: Two Writing systems. One syllabary and one for clay tabl

Post by fiziwig » 30 Nov 2010 19:16

dwnielsen wrote:Binary cuneiform is nice - like it more than Dutil & Dumas. Why not the empty staff in the first place, or is that so that the staves can be joined vertically as a single line? Or would it just not fit the pattern to your liking?
The idea behind it was not that it should be easily readable, but that it should be durable when impressed into porcelain tablets or tiles and fired in a high-temperature kiln. Compared to CD ROMs, paper and ink, and other forms of recording information, this method is designed to last for 10,000 or 20,000 years or more, not the mere 400 or 500 years of paper and ink or the 30 to 50 years of CD ROMs.

The story behind this particular script is that should human civilization fall apart due to global war, or runaway greenhouse, or asteroid impact, or whatever, in another 10 to 20 thousand years when civilization again begins to emerge wouldn't it be nice to be able to pass down information to our distance descendants? We could give them a jump start with porcelains tiles impressed with Euclid's Geometry, Newton's laws of motion, Maxwell's equations of electromagnetism, basic mechanical devices like levers and gears, basic electronics, vacuum tubes, etc. etc.

A collection of those kinds of works, impressed into porcelain tiles and hidden away in various natural caves around the world could survive the 20,000 year wait for civilization to rebuild.

So the script is not meant for quick sight-reading by people familiar with the script, but would be read by deep-future scholars who would have to translate it one word at a time. The important thing is that the data is rugged and durable. And the language used would have to be straightforward and consistent so that future scholars could learn it from a set of "primer" tablets meant to be a self-teaching mono-lingual Rosetta stone.

--gary

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Re: Two Writing systems. One syllabary and one for clay tabl

Post by Chelsara » 01 Dec 2010 00:51

Looks a whole lot like a font of a conscript I made in July.

Image

Have you been stalking me?! ;)

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Re: Two Writing systems. One syllabary and one for clay tabl

Post by fiziwig » 01 Dec 2010 01:53

Chelsara wrote:Looks a whole lot like a font of a conscript I made in July.

Image

Have you been stalking me?! ;)
Hehe. Well it IS a pretty simple way to do a script. :)

--gary

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