Japonic Latin

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Japonic Latin

Post by Squall » 27 Feb 2015 01:39

This is a conlang based on Latin and Japanese.
The lexicon comes from both languages.

a â e ê i î o ô u û (short and long vowels, u is /u/)

/m n ɲ/ <m n ny>
/p t k b d g/ <p t k b d g>
/f s z ɕ h/ <f s z sy h>
/ɺ/ <r>
/w j/ <w y>
/ts tɕ dʑ/ <c ty j>

<n> in the end of a syllable is /n m ŋ/ depending on the next consonant. <n> is /m/ in the end of the word.

Gemination is represented with double consonant. <nm> and <nn> are respectively gemination of m and n.

The syllable structure is (C)(y)V(x), where x is <n>, <s>, <y> or <w> and y is <y> or <w>.
Both falling and raising diphthongs are allowed.

Stress is not phonemic.

Sound changes from Latin:
fu -> fu - it is kept (flamma -> furanma)
hu -> u (hûmâno -> ûmâno)

ti, di, si -> ty ji sy (dîrecto -> jîretto)
/tj/ -> /ts/ (actiône -> accôn)
/nj/ -> /ɲ/

/h/ -> /h/ - it is kept (herba -> hêba)
/w~v/ -> /w/ (vîta -> wîta)
/j/ -> /j/ - it continues being /j/ (iânua -> yânwa)
/f/ -> /h/ (fîlio -> hîryo)
ff -> pp (differentia -> jipperenca)
ll -> ry (bella -> berya)

l -> r (lûna -> rûna)
l in the end of a syllable -> ru (sol -> soru)
r in the end of a syllable -> it is dropped and makes the vowel long (porta -> pôta)
CrV, ClV -> CVrV (planta -> paranta, contracto -> kontaratto)

pt, ct -> tt (recta -> retta)
ks, ps -> ss (luxo -> russo)
st, sp, sk in the beginning of a word -> sut, sup, suk (stato -> sutato)
gn -> /ɲ/

ce, ci, ge, gi -> /tse tsi dʒe dʒi/ (caelum -> celo -> cero, gente -> jente)
sce, sci -> /ɕe ɕi/ (pisce -> pisye)

Greek digraphs: ph, th, ch -> p ts ky (sphera -> supera, kyaos)

mn -> nn (omni -> onni)

<f> with other letter than <u> is rare, but it is used in loanwords and in Germanic roots.

/i u j w/ : They are represented in Latin with <i u>. If <i u> are stressed in Latin, they will always become /i u/. If they are unstressed and there is a neighboring vowel, they will become /w j/.

Sound changes from Japanese:
su in the end of a word; or after a vowel and before /p t k/ -> s
-n + vowel -> /ɲ/
-n + /j/ -> my (kan'yû -> kamyû)
-n + /w/ -> mw
u i -> /w j/ (sekai -> sekay)

fructo -> furutto
masculo -> maskuro
animal(e) -> animaru
spaghetti -> supagetty
mare -> mare
terra -> terra
sôlitûdine -> sôritûjin
auricula -> awrikura
proximo -> prosymo


The nouns take Latin ablative. Some suffixes can be added:
wa - topic
ga - nominative
wo - accusative
he - dative
de - ablative
ni - locative
no - genitive
kon - instrumental

The definite articles are:
irî (plural, archaic)

Question: ka
With: to
Relative clause: kwe


Subject pronouns are replaced with verbal inflection.

Object pronouns are suffixes for verbs. They are used only when needed.

The suffix of the Latin infinitive is changed from -re to -ru.
parabolare -> parlare -> pâraru
manducare -> manjare -> manjaru
scrîbere -> sukirîberu

The Japanese u-dropping verbs become ru-dropping.
kaku iku yomu -> kakiru ikiru yomiru

The verb conjugation is:

Code: Select all

         1SG    2SG/2PL   3SG/3PL  1PL
Present: -rô    -mas      -ru      -ranmos
Past:    -rê    -masyta   -ta      -râmos
Future:  -harô  -hamas    -haru    -haranmos

Present: -non   -masen    -nai     -ranmonai
Past:    -son   -masenta  -nakatta -râmosen
Future:  -hanon -hamasen  -hanai   -haranmonai

Code: Select all

Example: manjaru (eat)
Present: manjarô    manjamas      manjaru      manjaranmos
Past:    manjarê    manjamasyta   manjata      manjarâmos
Future:  manjaharô  manjahamas    manjaharu    manjaharanmos
Present: manjanon   manjamasen    manjanai     manjaranmonai
Past:    manjason   manjamasenta  manjanakatta manjarâmosen
Future:  manjahanon manjahamasen  manjahanai   manjaharanmoai

Example: taberu (eat)
Present: taberô    tabemas      taberu      taberanmos
Past:    taberê    tabemasyta   tabeta      taberâmos
Future:  tabeharô  tabehamas    tabeharu    tabeharanmos
Present: tabenon   tabemasen    tabenai     taberanmonai
Past:    tabeson   tabemasenta  tabenakatta taberâmosen
Future:  tabehanon tabehamasen  tabehanai   tabeharanmoai

Copula "to be a"

Code: Select all

         1SG     2SG/2PL    3SG/3PL   1PL
Present: sun     des        da        sanmos
Past:    era     desyta     datta     erâmos
Future:  suharô  deshamas   daha      isseranmos
Present: sunon   jarimasen  janai     sanmonai
Past:    eranon  janaides   janakatta erâmonai
Future:  suhanon deshamasen dahanai   seranmonai
Copula "to be adjective"

Code: Select all

         1SG      2SG/2PL       3SG/3PL    1PL
Present: -sun     -ides         -i         -sanmos
Past:    -era     -kattades     -katta     -erâmos
Future:  -iharô   -ihamas       -iharu     -iharanmos
Present: -sunon   -kunaides     -kunai     -sanmonai
Past:    -eranon  -kunakattades -kunakatta -erâmonai
Future:  -suhanon -ideshamasen  -kunaiha   -isseranmonai
Locative copula (mobile)
ni sutâru

Locative copula (immobile)
ni ariru

Progressive tenses
'iru' means "to go" and it is also used to form progressive tenses. It is a regular verb.
The gerund replaces -ru with -te and the verb is placed before 'iru'.

Irregular verbs
suru (cause, do, act)

zero - unty(unchi) duni têran kwayon cingo(tsingo) sêrokus settana hotyo(hocho) nokyû - jûce

Riborowo yomite ita. (S/he/they was reading a/some book/s.)
Kono kanega alboi. Kono inuga shiroi. (This dog is white.)
Tyokorâtewo taberê. (I ate chocolate.)
Mokumitomas ka? (Do you understand me?)
Tokumitorô. Tokonprehendorô. (I understand you.)
Last edited by Squall on 28 Feb 2015 14:54, edited 2 times in total.
English is not my native language. Sorry for any mistakes or lack of knowledge when I discuss this language.
:bra: :mrgreen: | :uk: [:D] | :esp: [:)] | :epo: [:|] | :lat: [:S] | :jpn: [:'(]

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Re: Japonic Latin

Post by Lambuzhao » 27 Feb 2015 08:47

mopasye mutto
placet mihi multo!

fructo -> furutto
masculo -> maskulo
animal(e) -> animaru
spaghetti -> supagetti
mare -> mare
terra -> terra
sôlitûdine -> sôritûdin
auricula -> awrikula
proximo -> prosymo

furutto [->] futto else fuutto (just blip out those /r/ in the clusters - Out, out damn spot!)
maskulo [->] masykuro ? maccikuro?
sôritûdin [->] sourituujin ( I would have thought soutituujin, or else souccituujin?)
awrikula [->] aorikura?
proximo [->] posymo (or mebbe poximo [po.ɕi.mo], [po.çi.mo] or else poccimo?) nevermind. I get it now.

parata ???

from plata, parata, pallata, prata, palata (palatum), palata (palor, palari) (I'm being a lil bit Nazi here, but still? [o.O]

/x/ /sci sce/ are troublesome birds. I could not help but almost read them with a {pinyin import} /x/ and maybe get pronounced
as [ç] or [ɕ].

*fixo [fi.ço] or [fi.ɕo].
*xiencca [çjen.çja] or [çjen.tsa]
Ha! or mebbe just /h/


D'oh. You already have /sy/
Well, mebbe *fisyo and *syencca

my biggest confusion is in the "cherry-picking" of antecedents from either classical (janua) to quasi-Romance (*mandjare, *parlare, plata) sources.

Expect the puritanical Romnazis to tweet you that it all ought to be from Vulgar Latin.
Frankly, I think it's brave and neat of you to use Classical Latin as a combinant.
Still, seek consistency.

For example,

argentum -> ajento [a.dʑen.to] does not have the hydra etymologica that parata (or mebbe purata) does.

colloquor -> korokuoru or konrokuoru (I dunno what yer gonna do with DEPONENTS; good luck!) could easily work
Even if you blip out the annoying /kw/ and reduce it to /k/, you get an almost onomatopoetic korokoru (!).
You could then even have an even more onomatopoetic, more Japanese sounding word korokorokoru which could mean
"to prattle", "to chatter", "to bloviate". Which, ironically, is kind of what I'm doing right now [:$]

edere -> ederu (or mebbe ejeru [e.dʑe.ɾ̠ɯ]?) Perfectly serviceable IMHO.

scribere -> domina dea Amaterasu, what a mess at the beginning! I would think kuriberu, or kiriberu (mirroring kiru cut) would have been enough.

Needless to say, I have every now and again thought of something like this in the past. Similar SOV syntax, Latin's relictual postclitic thingimabobs like -que, -cum so tantalizingly similar to :jap: -to, verbal paradigms from both that could easily choke a Giganotosaurus or an Arrakeen Sandworm. Friggin IRE/IRU is the stuff of romantic 19th century preprotopseudopanphilologists' dreams. I could not make too many more the connections, and I was happy to rather think on possibly developing a more Iberian-flavored Japanese creole sort of thing. But I doff my hat. I applaud your efforts, Squall.

I will l [<3] ve to see more of this [:D]

bene fatto
bene factum

Posts: 275
Joined: 26 Sep 2013 14:58

Re: Japonic Latin

Post by Serena » 27 Feb 2015 10:28

This is how Esperanto should've looked like :/

Posts: 583
Joined: 28 Nov 2013 14:47

Re: Japonic Latin

Post by Squall » 27 Feb 2015 15:22

Thanks for fixing my mistakes.

In real Japanese, 'su' is often pronounced without 'u'. Therefore, 'maskuro' is ok.

I have replaced the example 'plata' with 'planta'.
'grande' would become 'gurande' in Japanese. In some languages that do not support this cluster, it would be 'garande' (using the same vowel).

Maybe I should change 'planta' into 'pyanta'. /l/ became /j/ in Italian and clusters with /j/ are common in Japanese.

'korokoru' is awesome. 'korokororu' seems be better in order to keep the syllable in the inflections, such as 'korokorota' (past tense).

I have noticed that many homophones will appear:
luxo (luxury) -> russo
russo (red) -> russo

'russoi' would be red or luxurious.

If I change /ks/ into /ɕ/, this case will be solved.
luxo -> rusyo

Although Japanese got lots of homophones because of the simplification of Chinese words.

I almost used nasal vowels, but it is not clearly phonemic either in Latin or in Japanese.
The Japanese <n> would mark the nasalization.
English is not my native language. Sorry for any mistakes or lack of knowledge when I discuss this language.
:bra: :mrgreen: | :uk: [:D] | :esp: [:)] | :epo: [:|] | :lat: [:S] | :jpn: [:'(]

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