Logogenesis!

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Ethanxman
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Logogenesis!

Post by Ethanxman » 22 May 2015 21:37

Logogenesis is a game where you create a conlang together by using it!

First person posts a phonology.

/a i u mi ni ho go p t k s l snur/

Second comment is a gibberish using the phonology.

apumigos lisnurahok tai

Third comment defines grammar of the gibberish and sculpts the meaning.

After that it's conversation using the language.

All credit goes to u/ysadamsson on reddit. [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/conlangs/commen ... nesis//url]
:eng: [tick] | :esp: :zho: [:)] | :jpn: :fra: :abw: [:|]

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GrandPiano
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Re: Logogenesis!

Post by GrandPiano » 22 May 2015 23:19

Interesting idea... How is the example phoneme inventory you gave a phoneme inventory, though? /mi/, /ni/, /ho/, /go/, and /snur/ aren't phonemes, they're sequences of phonemes.
Edit: Read the Reddit post, now I understand.
I suppose I'll make the phonology.

Phoneme inventory:

/p b t d k g ʔ/
/pʲ bʲ tʲ dʲ c ɟ ʔʲ/
/f v s z x h/
/fʲ vʲ ɕ ʑ ç/
/t͡s d͡z/
/t͡ɕ d͡ʑ/
/l lʲ j w/
/r rʲ/
/m n/
/mʲ nʲ/

/i u ɯ/
/e o ɤ/
/ə/
/ɛ ɔ/
/a/

/eɪ̯ ɛɪ̯ uɪ̯ əɪ̯ ɯɪ̯ oɪ̯ ɤɪ̯ ɔɪ̯ aɪ̯/
/iʊ̯ eʊ̯ ɛʊ̯ əʊ̯ oʊ̯ ɤʊ̯ ɔʊ̯ aʊ̯/

Phonotactics:

The syllable structure is (C(S))V(X), where C is any consonant, S is any sonorant, V is any vowel, and X is any nasal, any voiceless fricative (including /h/), /l/, /r/, or /ʔ/. S is not allowed if C is a sonorant or /h/. Adjacent consonants across syllable boundaries within words must have the same voicing, unless one consonant is a sonorant; if both consonants can be palatalized, they must also have the same palatalization. Gemination is allowed and common.

Vowel harmony:

Because of vowel harmony, a word must contain either only front vowels (/i/, /e/, /ɛ/, /a/, and diphthongs starting with those vowels) and neutral vowels (/ə/, /əɪ̯/, and /əʊ̯/), or back vowels (/u/, /ɯ/, /o/, /ɤ/, /ɔ/, and diphthongs starting with those vowels) and neutral vowels (or only neutral vowels).

Stress:

Stress always falls on the penultimate syllable, except in compound words, where primary stress falls on the penultimate syllable of the first morpheme and secondary stress falls on the penultimate syllable of the second morpheme.

Allophony:

Vowels are not reduced in unstressed syllables. In the onset of unstressed syllables, /v/ is often realized as [ʋ], except utterance-initially. When two vowels occur next to each other, the first tends to becomes non-syllabic./n/ becomes [m] before bilabial consonants, [ɱ] before labiodental consonants, and [ŋ]. In quick or casual speech, the same kind of a assimilation can happen to /m/.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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PTSnoop
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Re: Logogenesis!

Post by PTSnoop » 23 May 2015 00:23

Sounds good. I'm in!

Romanisation:
<p b t d k g ʔ>
<pj bj tj dj c cj ʔj>
<f v s z x h>
<fj vj sh zh ch>
<ts dz>
<tsh dzh>
<l lj j w>
<r rj>
<m n>
<mj nj>

<i u ü>
<e o ö>
<ə>
<ɛ ɔ>
<a>

<ei ɛi ui əi üi oi öi ɔi ai>
<iu eu ɛu əu ou öu ɔu au>

Palatalised consonant clusters only get the final j - tj + rj -> trj (apart from cj).

Some gibberish:

Pinjətjei cjəuseu pjei seimji fjjüi tju zhaifusha.

Tjəumjljü, bjü, kweutrjɛ zmɛ. Xo loisɔi fnjai vudnoi cmɔpɔ cjə njezi, njeslje tshiu so. Mniulweuwlji vjo shə, mjöi. Xiu xwo, gə cjü və. Cjrjɔrjmɔi ʔə sɔ, tshətjədei njəjiutsɛ tnjöijüi plja zhəu ʔjɔ mjɔiʔjusha tsljəi.

Nleicjiu, tljo fɛ sɔ bljɛitljə vljɛshɛ pnjeutzhɛtsɛ wonlö tshəunə hlji ʔjəi tzhibjmiu xə wləjjona ʔljöu, nwə kjjaiʔu sau xiutjətshwə tmjɔnɔ xɛnweu vjəidɛ njaujjə nəubiu devɛ zai nwɔxui tjei, fjei, ləi tsi soi wusa fröi sü fje.

HoskhMatriarch
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Re: Logogenesis!

Post by HoskhMatriarch » 23 May 2015 01:12

Xrɔmj ljɔn tjɛ sɛ zɛ njɛmi!
No darkness can harm you if you are guided by your own inner light

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GrandPiano
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Re: Logogenesis!

Post by GrandPiano » 23 May 2015 01:26

HoskhMatriarch wrote:Xrɔmj ljɔn tjɛ sɛ zɛ njɛmi!
I think you were supposed to decide on a meaning for PTSnoop's gibberish and explain the grammar behind it.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

Keenir
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Re: Logogenesis!

Post by Keenir » 23 May 2015 01:33

see below.
the OP wrote:Third comment defines grammar of the gibberish and sculpts the meaning.


...but wanting the game to end in four turns...

PTSnoop wrote:Sounds good. I'm in!


as am I.

Rule: Locatives are suffixed to Classifiers.

Pinjətjei cjəuseu pjei seimji fjjüi tju zhaifusha.


cjəu-seu pjei
hairy-head dog

Tjəumjljü, bjü, kweutrjɛ zmɛ. Xo loisɔi fnjai vudnoi cmɔpɔ cjə njezi, njeslje tshiu so. Mniulweuwlji vjo shə, mjöi. Xiu xwo, gə cjü və. Cjrjɔrjmɔi ʔə sɔ, tshətjədei njəjiutsɛ tnjöijüi plja zhəu ʔjɔ mjɔiʔjusha tsljəi.


kweu-trjɛ zmɛ
flies-around bat

vudno-i cmɔpɔ
feathers-dead chicken

ʔə sɔ
dust-NULL gnat {no locative = everywhere?}

Nleicjiu, tljo fɛ sɔ bljɛitljə vljɛshɛ pnjeutzhɛtsɛ wonlö tshəunə hlji ʔjəi tzhibjmiu xə wləjjona ʔljöu, nwə kjjaiʔu sau xiutjətshwə tmjɔnɔ xɛnweu vjəidɛ njaujjə nəubiu devɛ zai nwɔxui tjei, fjei, ləi tsi soi wusa fröi sü fje.


fɛ sɔ
invisible-NULL demon

bljɛi-tljə vljɛshɛ
crawls-within (tape)worm

kjjai-ʔu sau
round-alongside tube (needle?)

ts-i soi
person-dead person
Last edited by Keenir on 23 May 2015 04:58, edited 1 time in total.
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799

HoskhMatriarch
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Re: Logogenesis!

Post by HoskhMatriarch » 23 May 2015 02:15

GrandPiano wrote:
HoskhMatriarch wrote:Xrɔmj ljɔn tjɛ sɛ zɛ njɛmi!
I think you were supposed to decide on a meaning for PTSnoop's gibberish and explain the grammar behind it.
Oh. My comment was obviously too short for that. Oops.
No darkness can harm you if you are guided by your own inner light

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GrandPiano
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Re: Logogenesis!

Post by GrandPiano » 23 May 2015 03:09

Keenir wrote:[stuff]
Based on the Reddit thread that Ethanxman linked to, it looks like you're supposed to grammatically break down the entire text and decide on its meaning (and I think HoskhMatriarch's sentence would've been fine, too). I, admittedly, seem to have done the phonology thing a lot differently than was done in the original game. One game started out like this:
/ a i u eo b d g t k sk sl sn r w x v /
/ skeoguxaa eo gaxaad snuuisl vkeoba /
  • skeogux-aa eo gax-aa-d snuu-i-sl v-keoba
  • cat-def and dog-def-with sleep-1s-past loc-floor
  • "I slept on the floor with the cat and the dog"
And then the rest of it, as Ethanxman said, is just conversation:
tak guusl asneox?

Image

why did you do that?
Tak guskaxisl vbadeoxuu sni xivagivadusl!

My wife made me do it because she was crazy mad!

Image
I think that gives a pretty good idea of how this game is supposed to go.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

Keenir
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Re: Logogenesis!

Post by Keenir » 23 May 2015 04:27

GrandPiano wrote:
Keenir wrote:[stuff]
Based on the Reddit thread that Ethanxman linked to, it looks like you're supposed to grammatically break down the entire text and decide on its meaning (and I think HoskhMatriarch's sentence would've been fine, too). I, admittedly, seem to have done the phonology thing a lot differently than was done in the original game. One game started out like this:

I think that gives a pretty good idea of how this game is supposed to go.
*nods* I think I was breaking the grammar turn into turns for multiple people, both because I feared the game would end too quickly...and also recalled how some conlangs can have 10-30 pages of grammar. (so it becomes unwieldy for a single turn)

I'll strike-out/delete my post, if the other participants wish; no worries.
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799

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GrandPiano
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Re: Logogenesis!

Post by GrandPiano » 23 May 2015 04:41

Well, you don't have to write out the entire conlang's grammar, just the first bit of gibberish's... Ideally, the first bit of gibberish would be a bit shorter, which would make the task a bit less unwieldy.
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

Keenir
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Re: Logogenesis!

Post by Keenir » 23 May 2015 05:15

GrandPiano wrote:Well, you don't have to write out the entire conlang's grammar, just the first bit of gibberish's... Ideally, the first bit of gibberish would be a bit shorter, which would make the task a bit less unwieldy.
thank you.

trying again...

Pro-drop(?)
Plural on the noun.
Locative on the Classifier & on the Evidential.

Pinjətjei cjəuseu pjei seimji fjjüi tju zhaifusha.
Pinjə-tje-i cjəu-seu pje-i sei-mji fjjü-i tju zhaifu-sha.
at.speed-EVI1-LOC.here CLASS1{flies}-LOC.on.ground bat-PL POSS.*-PST EVI2-LOC.here ** 3.whispers-EVI3
Quickly, I saw here, bats
-had heard (it happens) here
-people knew of it.
I saw fast bats here, and'd heard of it here, and people 'knew' of it.
I saw fast bats here, and people 'knew' of it, and I'd heard of it here.
{both are valid}

EVI1 - evidential 1 - "I saw it"
EVI2 - evidential 2 - hearsay
EVI3 - evidential 3 - other

* = subclause starts here
** = second subclause starts here
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799

Khemehekis
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Re: Logogenesis!

Post by Khemehekis » 23 May 2015 07:16

Keenir wrote: I think I was breaking the grammar turn into turns for multiple people, both because I feared the game would end too quickly...and also recalled how some conlangs can have 10-30 pages of grammar.
Some have 725 pages of grammar.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 62,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

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GrandPiano
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Re: Logogenesis!

Post by GrandPiano » 23 May 2015 18:32

PTSnoop wrote:Pinjətjei cjəuseu pjei seimji fjjüi tju zhaifusha.

Tjəumjljü, bjü, kweutrjɛ zmɛ. Xo loisɔi fnjai vudnoi cmɔpɔ cjə njezi, njeslje tshiu so. Mniulweuwlji vjo shə, mjöi. Xiu xwo, gə cjü və. Cjrjɔrjmɔi ʔə sɔ, tshətjədei njəjiutsɛ tnjöijüi plja zhəu ʔjɔ mjɔiʔjusha tsljəi.

Nleicjiu, tljo fɛ sɔ bljɛitljə vljɛshɛ pnjeutzhɛtsɛ wonlö tshəunə hlji ʔjəi tzhibjmiu xə wləjjona ʔljöu, nwə kjjaiʔu sau xiutjətshwə tmjɔnɔ xɛnweu vjəidɛ njaujjə nəubiu devɛ zai nwɔxui tjei, fjei, ləi tsi soi wusa fröi sü fje.
Looking through this, I couldn't help but notice that some of the words aren't allowed with the vowel harmony I described, such as zhaifusha, mjɔiʔjusha, and wləjjona (and the first consonant cluster in wləjjona is illegal because /w/ is a sonorant). Perhaps PTSnoop thought that /a/ counted as a back vowel, when it actually counts as a front vowel?
:eng: - Native
:chn: - B2
:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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PTSnoop
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Re: Logogenesis!

Post by PTSnoop » 23 May 2015 20:57

GrandPiano wrote:Perhaps PTSnoop thought that /a/ counted as a back vowel, when it actually counts as a front vowel?
...Guilty as charged! Fixed version here:

Pinjətjei cjəuseu pjei seimji fjjüi tju zhaifisha.

Tjəumjljü, bjü, kweutrjɛ zmɛ. Xo loisɔi fnjai vudnoi cmɔpɔ cjə njezi, njeslje tshiu so. Mniulweuwlji vjo shə, mjöi. Xiu xwo, gə cjü və. Cjrjɔrjmɔi ʔə sɔ, tshətjədei njəjiutsɛ tnjöijüi plja zhəu ʔjɔ mjɔiʔjusho tsljəi.

Nleicjiu, tljo fɛ sɔ bljɛitljə vljɛshɛ pnjeutzhɛtsɛ wonlö tshəunə hlji ʔjəi tzhibjmiu xə ʔələjjena ʔljöu, nwə kjjaiʔe sau xiutjətshwə tmjɔnɔ xɛnweu vjəidɛ njɛujjə nəubiu devɛ zai nwɔxui tjei, fjei, ləi tsi soi wusɛ fröi sü fje.

Keenir
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Re: Logogenesis!

Post by Keenir » 23 May 2015 21:44

PTSnoop wrote:
GrandPiano wrote:Perhaps PTSnoop thought that /a/ counted as a back vowel, when it actually counts as a front vowel?
...Guilty as charged! Fixed version here:

Pinjətjei cjəuseu pjei seimji fjjüi tju zhaifisha.


and thus, fixed:

GrandPiano wrote:Well, you don't have to write out the entire conlang's grammar, just the first bit of gibberish's... Ideally, the first bit of gibberish would be a bit shorter, which would make the task a bit less unwieldy.


thank you.

trying again...


Pro-drop(?)
Plural on the noun.
Locative on the Classifier & on the Evidential.

Pinjətjei cjəuseu pjei seimji fjjüi tju zhaifisha.
Pinjə-tje-i cjəu-seu pje-i sei-mji fjjü-i tju zhaifi-sha.
at.speed-EVI1-LOC.here CLASS1{flies}-LOC.on.ground bat-PL POSS.*-PST EVI2-LOC.here ** 3.whispers-EVI3
Quickly, I saw here, bats
-had heard (it happens) here
-people knew of it.
I saw fast bats here, and'd heard of it here, and people 'knew' of it.
I saw fast bats here, and people 'knew' of it, and I'd heard of it here.
{both are valid}

EVI1 - evidential 1 - "I saw it"
EVI2 - evidential 2 - hearsay
EVI3 - evidential 3 - other

* = subclause starts here
** = second subclause starts here
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799

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