Noattȯč

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ixals
sinic
sinic
Posts: 390
Joined: 28 Jul 2015 17:43

Re: Noattȯč

Post by ixals » 09 Aug 2015 11:44

shimobaatar wrote:Cool, that's an interesting way to derive a new interrogative mood!

[...]

[+1] I quite like what's explained in this section, especially because of how it's only really used in writing and how modern speakers might get confused over questions and statements in older texts.
Thank you! [:$]
Birdlang wrote:What does the superscript 2 mean. Is it mid low tone?
shimobaatar wrote:It's explained right underneath the vowel inventory that /a ɛ ɔ/ and /a² ɛ² ɔ²/ are two sets of phonemes that are pronounced identically to one another in unstressed syllables, but differentiated in stressed syllables, where /a² ɛ² ɔ²/ are lengthened, but /a ɛ ɔ/ are not.
As shimobaatar perfectly described it, the only difference is that in stressed syllables the vowels with the superscript are pronounced long while the ones without aren't. [:)]
Native: :deu:
Learning: :gbr:, :chn:, :tur:, :fra:

Zhér·dûn a tonal Germanic conlang

old stuff: Цiски | Noattȯč | Tungōnis Vīdīnōs

User avatar
ixals
sinic
sinic
Posts: 390
Joined: 28 Jul 2015 17:43

Re: Noattȯč

Post by ixals » 20 Aug 2015 23:00

Oh god, it's been a bit time since my last post but I was just too lazy to write another post. Procrastination! [:'(] I did other things the last two weeks but I've thought about Noattȯč from time to time and I think I'll just post something quick here, nothing big.

Fourth Person

Noattȯč introduces a regularly used fourth person (or Pazȯn Fi which comes from :deu: Person vier, because I haven't figured out ordinal numbers yet). It's used when a person isn't specified, so it's an indefinite person. The fourth person singular generally means one, for example like in "One does not do that". It's also often found in instructions of all kinds. The fourth person plural generally means "everybody". Both forms often imply what a person should do in the speaker's point of view as well. The source of the singular suffix is the German word man which is already often used this way but it's use will increase in Noattȯč. The plural suffix comes from the word jeder, hence this form is stressed like the second person plural: on the first syllable of the suffix. And as always, examples!

Tu̇qmannıḥ.
[ˈtuːʔ.ma.nnɪç]
tu̇-qman-nıḥ
do-4SG-NEG


Kapiċėna!
[ka.pi.ˈtʃeː.na]
kap-iċėna
understand-4PL


The first sentence means "one does not do that" and the second one means "everybody understands that".

Vocabulary I: Days & Months

I thought I'll post some vocabulary as well today! The first lesson are the days of the week and the months of a year because that's something I can do quite fast now. I won't list which gender they belong to because all of them are male nouns (or they're male when they're actually used as nouns).

day - tȧk [ˈtaːk] etym. Tag
Monday - Mȯntah [ˈmoːn.tax] etym. Montag
Tuesday - Dictah [ˈdiːts.tax] etym. Dienstag
Wednesday - Mıvvah1 [ˈmɪ.wwax] etym. Mittwoch
Thursday - Donastah [ˈdɔ.nas.tax] etym. Donnerstag
Friday - Ffȧtah [ˈfːaː.tax] etym. Freitag
Saturday - Zamctah [ˈzamts.tax] etym. Samstag
Sunday - Zontah [ˈzɔn.tax] etym. Sonntag

One thing that happens here is that the pronunciations of :deu: Tag/-tag split here. In every name of the weekdays, the colloquial northern German pronunciations becomes the standard while the pronunciation with the long vowel and the stop remains in the word for day. However, the greeting, which stems from the same word, retains the colloquial pronunciation as well.

month - mȯnat [ˈmoː.nat] etym. Monat
January - Javvȧ [ˈjawːa] etym. Januar
February - Fėvvȧ2 [ˈfe.wːa] etym. Februar
March - Mėc [ˈmeːts] etym. März
April - Qappıl [ʔa.ˈppɪl] etym. April
May - Mȧ [ˈmaː] etym. Mai
June - Ju̇ni [ˈjuː.ni] etym. Juni
July - Ju̇ri [ˈjuː.ɾi] etym. Juli
August - Qoaƞust [ʔɔ.ˈŋʊst] etym. August
September - Zemtemma [zɛm.ˈtɛ.mma] etym. September
October - Qoƞtemma3 [ʔɔŋ.ˈtɛ.mma] etym. Oktober
November - Nȯvemma [no.ˈwɛ.mma] etym. November
December - Dėcemma [de.ˈtsɛ.mma] etym. Dezember

1 the expected outcome would've been Mıvvoh but it changed to Mıvvah due to analogy with all the other days
2 the expected outcome would've been Fėppvȧ but it changed to Fėvvȧ due to analogy with Javvȧ, the expected form exists in older forms of Noattȯč but is obsolete in Modern Noattȯč
3 the expected outcome would've been Qoƞtȯma but it changed to Qoƞtemma due to analogy with the surrounding months
Native: :deu:
Learning: :gbr:, :chn:, :tur:, :fra:

Zhér·dûn a tonal Germanic conlang

old stuff: Цiски | Noattȯč | Tungōnis Vīdīnōs

shimobaatar
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Location: PA → IN

Re: Noattȯč

Post by shimobaatar » 21 Aug 2015 02:56

ixals wrote:Oh god, it's been a bit time since my last post but I was just too lazy to write another post. Procrastination! [:'(] I did other things the last two weeks but I've thought about Noattȯč from time to time and I think I'll just post something quick here, nothing big.
No worries, post whenever you can/want to. [:)] It's always nice to see more of this, but please don't feel like you have to force yourself to post regularly.
ixals wrote: The source of the singular suffix is the German word man which is already often used this way but it's use will increase in Noattȯč. The plural suffix comes from the word jeder, hence this form is stressed like the second person plural: on the first syllable of the suffix. And as always, examples!
[+1]
ixals wrote: One thing that happens here is that the pronunciations of :deu: Tag/-tag split here. In every name of the weekdays, the colloquial northern German pronunciations becomes the standard while the pronunciation with the long vowel and the stop remains in the word for day. However, the greeting, which stems from the same word, retains the colloquial pronunciation as well.
Oh, cool!
ixals wrote: 1 the expected outcome would've been Mıvvoh but it changed to Mıvvah due to analogy with all the other days
2 the expected outcome would've been Fėppvȧ but it changed to Fėvvȧ due to analogy with Javvȧ, the expected form exists in older forms of Noattȯč but is obsolete in Modern Noattȯč
3 the expected outcome would've been Qoƞtȯma but it changed to Qoƞtemma due to analogy with the surrounding months
I especially like these cases of analogy here; they make the language feel even more naturalistic!

Bristel
greek
greek
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Joined: 14 Aug 2010 18:50

Re: Noattȯč

Post by Bristel » 23 Aug 2015 02:41

I love this. I really wanted to do a futurelang version of Catalan, but my diachronic skills are severely lacking.
[bɹ̠ˤʷɪs.təɫ]
Nōn quālibet inīqua cupiditāte illectus hōc agō.
[tiː.mɔ.tʉɥs god.lɐf hɑwk]

User avatar
ixals
sinic
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Joined: 28 Jul 2015 17:43

Re: Noattȯč

Post by ixals » 15 May 2017 23:14

Revamp: "Noattȯč 2.0"

It's been two years and I have done nothing except thinking about the project from time to time but today is the day I finally did something again. I'm not that happy with the sound changes I made back then so I revamped it. Most sound changes are quite similar as I think they are likely to happen. The most prominent change in my opinion is that /ɕ/ becomes the standard pronunciation of /ç/. While I hate it, by now I think this change is inevitable.

I don't have a complete phonology, orthography or anything right now, but concerning the orthography it is based off the old one mixed with German conventions (<j w> for <j v>) and new changes.

The Verb: Present-based Nonpast Indicative
Spoiler:
Image
New Noattȯč possesses five so-called "present-based" tenses as they originate from German's present tense. Additionally to the basic indicative, affirmative and negative forms of each tense exists. It has to be noted that - depending on the situation - the affirmative can be a strongly negative way of expressing something as in "Yes, I am doing it, so stop asking/annoying me".
  • Present: The present tense is used for actions that are habitually or currently. Most of the time it is used for habitual actions as the concurrent present overlaps in the latter. The present tense is also used for general facts and the like.
  • Concurrent present: The concurrent present tense is used for actions that are currently done with emphasis on the fact that it the action is indeed performed at this right moment.
  • Continuous present: The continuous present tense is used for actions that are currently done with emphasis on the fact that the action has already been performed for some time prior to speaking and still is.
  • Definite future: The definitive future tense is used for actions that will take place in the future but the time at which the action will be performed is known. The definite future tense is additionally used for actions in the fear future in the sense that it is certain that it will still take a long time.
  • Indefinite future: The indefinitive future tense is used for actions that will take place in the future but the time at which the action will be performed is unknown. The indefinite future tense is additionally used for actions in the near future in the sense that it is not certain when exactly it will be done in the following time.
Dialects can heavily vary in this. The origins of these tenses are the following:
  • Present: The present tense simply originates from the German present tenses with personal pronouns suffixed. The irregular ultimate stress in the first person singular is the result of influence of the Turkish language's stress. This only caught on in the first person singular as it was either perceived as too low-class in other tenses or it would have resulted in a stressed schwa which would have broken the phonotactics.. The high tone in /ˈmax.má/ "one does" comes from former glottalisation ("macht man" [ˈmaxt.man] > [ˈmax.ʔ͡man] > [ˈmax.mˀan] > [ˈmax.má]). The loss of the final nasal is analogical. The second person plural stems from "macht ihr alle" ([ˈmax.tɐ ˌa.lə]). The long vowel in the impersonal plural is anological as it's source is "machen alle" ([ˈma.xn̩ ˌa.lə]).
  • Concurrent present: The concurrent present tense is formed by adding the suffix "-gā̀tʰ" coming from German "gerade/grad" which means "now/at the moment".
  • Continuous present: The continuous present tense is formed by adding the suffix "-šōn" coming from German "schon" which means "already".
  • Definite future: The definite future tense is formed by adding the suffix "-dan" coming from German "dann" which means "then/after that".
  • Indefinite future: The indefinite future tense is formed by adding the suffix "-noh" coming from German "noch" which means "still".
The affirmative suffix precedes the tense suffixes while the negative suffix follows them, giving:

stem-person-AFF-tense-NEG

The negative suffix stems from the German word "nich(t)" meaning "not", while the affirmative one arose from the German word "ja" which meant "obviously/certainly" when not used as an interjection.

There are also some irregularities in this system to be found:
  • Concurrent present negative: "-gā̀tʰ" and "-niṣ" combine into "-gā̀níṣ". The reason for that is glottalisation ([-gʁaːt(ʰ).nɪç] > [-gʕaː.ʔ͡nɪɕ] > [-gˤaː.nˀeɕ] > [-gàː.néɕ]).
  • Continuous present negative: The expected suffix would be "-šōnniṣ", but as in German "noch nich(t)" means "not yet", this got carried over into Noattȯč for the continuous present negative as it expressed that an action has not been performed for some time prior to and in the present.
  • Indefinite future: The expected suffix would be the suffix of the continuous present negative. To fill this void, the affirmative and negative are used simultaneously with an irregular stress shift to the indefinite future suffix "noh".

This was all for today. Have fun reading it! [:D]
Native: :deu:
Learning: :gbr:, :chn:, :tur:, :fra:

Zhér·dûn a tonal Germanic conlang

old stuff: Цiски | Noattȯč | Tungōnis Vīdīnōs

shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 11658
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 22:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: Noattȯč

Post by shimobaatar » 02 Jun 2017 21:43

Ahh, I've missed this language. Good to see it back. Very well-done as usual!

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