Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

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Ephraim
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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by Ephraim » 15 Jul 2016 22:22

Here's a reconstructed "speculative PG" verb. The forms have mostly been given their Latin names.

The forms follow the reconstruction of PG used on Wiktionary (which I think might be a bit anachronistic in some aspects, but that probably doesn't matter here). There are no passive forms or dual forms since they are not needed.

This is the strong class 4 verb *beraną ‘to carry, to bear’. The endings of other strong verbs are very similar. The weak verbs may require some thinking, though.

Present indicative:

*berō
*birizi
*biridi
*beramaz
*birid (*beradiz)
*berandi

This is the same as regular PG. The alternative 2pl is actually the older PG dual. The stem *ber- might be analogically restored to forms that show i-umlaut, so *birizi > *berizi. This happened in Proto-Norse.

Present subjunctive:

*beraų
*beraiz
*berai
*beraim
*beraid
*berain

Again, no difference from regular PG. I think *aų was, at least originally, a disyllabic sequence rather than a diphthong. It is form earlier *ajų.

Imperfect indicative:

*berą
*biriz
*biri
*beram (*berum)
*birid (*berud)
*beran (*berun)

The forms are inherited directly from the PIE thematic imperfective, i.e. they are formed from the present stem with secondary endings. The alternative plural endings in parenthesis are borrowed from the perfect.

Imperfect subjunctive/Personal infinitive:

There's no natural form for the imperfect subjunctive. On the other hand, it apparently only survived in the Romance languages in Sardinian, and in Portuguese and Galician where it was analysed as a personal infinitive. So at least for Portuguese/Galician, maybe you could form a personal infinitive by adding the imperfect endings to the infinitive stem. Note that the 1sg *beraną would be identical to the infinitive so this could be the starting point. Perhaps something like *wiljų beraną ‘I want to bear’ was analysed as ‘I want that I bear’, so that speakers started to (at least optionally) use *wilīz beraniz ‘you want to bear/you want that you bear’.

*beraną
*biraniz
*birani
*beranam (*beranum)
*biranid (*beranud)
*beranan (*beranun)

Perfect indicative:
*bar (*bebar)
*bart (*bebart)
*bar (*bebar)
*bērum (*bebrum)
*bērud (*bebrud)
*bērun (*bebrun)

This is the regular PG past, which basically goes back to the PIE perfect. The form in parenthesis is an alternative reduplicated form (which would of course also be used for other forms based on the perfect stem). It is possible that more strong classes showed reduplication in earlier PG, and that reduplication was progressively lost (note that reduplication was almost completely lost in attested branches other than Gothic).

Perfect subjunctive:
*bērį̄
*bērīz
*bērī
*bērīm
*bērīd
*bērīn

This is the regular PG past subjunctive.

Pluperfect indicative
*barą
*bariz
*bari
*baram (*barum)
*barid (*barud)
*baran (*barun)

This is an innovative form based on the perfect stem but with thematic secondary endings. I'm not quite sure what grade the stem should be in but since it is a thematic inflection, I think it should have the same grade throughout and it seems reasonable that it would share a stem with the singular of the indicative perfect.

Pluperfect subjunctive:
*baraų
*baraiz
*barai
*baraim
*baraid
*barain

Again, this is an innovation. This is based on the perfect stem but with the same endings as the PG present subjunctive. Just like the pluperfect subjunctive, it uses the thematic endings (where the past/perfect subjunctive goes back to an the athematic optative).

Future perfect indicative
*barō
*barizi
*baridi
*baramaz
*barid (*baradiz)
*barandi

Another innovativ form. This is just the perfect stem with present endings, which might make some sense. The Latin future perfect apparently survived as a future subjunctive in some Romance languages, while I don't think the regular future survived in any language.

Imperative:
——
*ber
*beradau
*beramaz
*birid (*beradiz)
*berandau

The 1pl (not found on Wiktionary) and the 2pl is the same as the indicative. There is no 1sg.

Infinitive:
*beraną

Gerund/Present participle:
*berandz > *berandaz

This may start to be declined like a regular adjective.

Supine/Past participle:
*buranaz > *boranaz

Note the a-umlaut causing the shift *u > *o.
ixals wrote:z [->] s
Might I suggest *z > r medially but *z > s finally? This might make the distribution of s and r more similar to Latin, where medial s was not that common, due to the Pre-Classical Latin rhotacism. It also helps distinguish the endings *-izi and *-iz in languages that lose the final vowel, so it helps distinguish the present form the imperfect. Also note that in West Germanic, final *z was generally lost while medial *z rhotacized.
Creyeditor wrote:
ixals wrote: 1. When changing Proto-Germanic words to make them sound more Latin, I have a sound change that changes /θ/ to either /d/ or /t/ depending on which sounds better for the word. I had the idea to actually specify the rules for that. I'm thinking about changing it to /d/ at the beginning of a word and to /t/ everywhere else. Changing it to /t/ between two vowels for examples is better than to /d/ because of the loss of intervocalic /d/ in a lot of Romance languages. But then changing it to /t/ would revert previous Germanic sound changes so I'm not sure about this. Opinions?
1. I think if you look at naturalistic sound changes, intervocalic /d/ and initial /t/ would be more natural if you view them as intervocalic lenition and word initial fortition. On the other hand having a intervocalic lenition apply twice would be a shame [:(]
Maybe there is some other possibility. /θ/ could become /t/ at the end of a word and /d/ in all other positions? I really don't know [:S]
I agree that intervocalic voicelessness with initial voicing is very unexpected.

Having it become /t/ only finally is almost the same thing as having it become /d/ in all cases. There are actually very few instances of final *þ in Proto-Germanic. One reason is that Pre-PG, final *t (> PG *þ) became *d (> PG *t), which is true of many IE branches. This final *t was lost in late PG. This is why you have words like *alu ‘ale, beer’ with a stem *aluþ-. The nom-acc.sg was originally *alut.

Perhaps it could become /t/ in all cases? That would make the language look more Romance, e.g. instead of .

Alternatively, it could become voiceless only if it comes before or immediately after a stressed (i.e. mostly initial) vowel. So somewhat like Verner's law, although not quite. Grammatical words like pronouns can count as unstressed, as in Mainland Scandinavian where initial /θ/ became /d/ in pronouns (du, det etc.) but /t/ in content words (tunn), or as in English (thou, that vs. thin).

Also note that there is often an alternation in Germanic between *þ and *d due to Verner's law, so that means you can pick which one you want and generalize that form.
Creyeditor wrote:
ixals wrote:2. I'm thinking about changing something about the infinitive. In Proto-Germanic it is *-aną most of the time and it would be -ana in VG. But I don't like the outcomes for the Germance languages because its too long in my opinion, so I'm thinking about changing it irregularlytoo *-ane in VG. So the ending in Germanic Spanish (or Germañol) would change from -ana to -án and in Germanic Portuguese (or Germuguês) from -am to -ão. Opinions?
2. I thought the infinitives in Germanic languages were shortened in every Germanic branch, so I think irregularly doing something to produce nicer outcomes is totally okay.
All attested Germanic languages (possibly excluding some early inscriptions but that may be controversial) pretty regularly lost the second vowel in disyllabic inflectional endings if it was short. So *-aną > *-an, *-amaz > *-amz, *-adiz > *-adz, *-iniz > *-inz etc. The trigger could have been strictly phonological at some point, with analogy restoring some endings, or maybe it was always sensitive to morphology. The change must have spread to all Germanic languages only after they split up, since some languages (notably Old English) show indirect evidence for the final vowel from conditional sound changes.

Perhaps there could be a similar shift of final *ą (maybe also *a) to *e if it is in the second syllable of an inflectional ending, or just in the third syllable of a word. So it could be a regular change, just very rare. Note that PG didn't have unstressed short *e except before *r, so some conditional changes to create unstressed *e might be good to have.

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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by Ælfwine » 16 Jul 2016 04:38

Ephraim wrote:Might I suggest *z > r medially but *z > s finally? This might make the distribution of s and r more similar to Latin, where medial s was not that common, due to the Pre-Classical Latin rhotacism. It also helps distinguish the endings *-izi and *-iz in languages that lose the final vowel, so it helps distinguish the present form the imperfect. Also note that in West Germanic, final *z was generally lost while medial *z rhotacized.
[+1]
Ephraim wrote:Alternatively, it could become voiceless only if it comes before or immediately after a stressed (i.e. mostly initial) vowel. So somewhat like Verner's law, although not quite. Grammatical words like pronouns can count as unstressed, as in Mainland Scandinavian where initial /θ/ became /d/ in pronouns (du, det etc.) but /t/ in content words (tunn), or as in English (thou, that vs. thin).
I like this idea the most. [+1] Then again I like extremely complicated phonologies, [:P] the more irregularity, the better!
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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by shimobaatar » 03 Aug 2016 15:58

ixals wrote: Since shimo asked for examples of adjectival declension, I made a table using one adjective for each declension class! [:D]
Thank you, this is exactly what I had in mind!
ixals wrote: All VG pronouns simply derive from the Proto-Germanic pronouns.
I like the looks of these so far!
ixals wrote: 1. When changing Proto-Germanic words to make them sound more Latin, I have a sound change that changes /θ/ to either /d/ or /t/ depending on which sounds better for the word. I had the idea to actually specify the rules for that. I'm thinking about changing it to /d/ at the beginning of a word and to /t/ everywhere else. Changing it to /t/ between two vowels for examples is better than to /d/ because of the loss of intervocalic /d/ in a lot of Romance languages. But then changing it to /t/ would revert previous Germanic sound changes so I'm not sure about this. Opinions?
What sound changes would it revert?
ixals wrote: 2. I'm thinking about changing something about the infinitive. In Proto-Germanic it is *-aną most of the time and it would be -ana in VG. But I don't like the outcomes for the Germance languages because its too long in my opinion, so I'm thinking about changing it irregularlytoo *-ane in VG. So the ending in Germanic Spanish (or Germañol) would change from -ana to -án and in Germanic Portuguese (or Germuguês) from -am to -ão. Opinions?
I prefer the forms that come from the irregular change to *-ane, personally.
ixals wrote: 3. Does anyone want to see vocabulary on some specific topics? I need some words to build some example sentences and I can't decide where I want to begin.
Perhaps plants and animals?

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ixals
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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by ixals » 14 Aug 2016 19:17

Comments:
Spoiler:
Creyeditor wrote:You could use the stressed forms for deriving emphatic pronouns as they occur e.g. in French <moi> vs. <je>.
That's a possibility. I already thought about deriving the emphatic pronouns from either the stressed accusative forms or the dative.
Creyeditor wrote:2. I thought the infinitives in Germanic languages were shortened in every Germanic branch, so I think irregularly doing something to produce nicer outcomes is totally okay.
Then that's what I'm gonna do! [>:)]
Ephraim wrote:Here's a reconstructed "speculative PG" verb. The forms have mostly been given their Latin names.
THANK YOU SO MUCH! That's all I can say because it's incredibly nice of you. [:'(] [<3]
Ephraim wrote:Might I suggest *z > r medially but *z > s finally?
Of course! I'm using it in my latest version of the sound changes. This change really does help making the words look more Latin. Additionally, I'm using the vowel reduction from Old Latin to Latin as well now.
Ephraim wrote:
Creyeditor wrote:
ixals wrote: 1. When changing Proto-Germanic words to make them sound more Latin, I have a sound change that changes /θ/ to either /d/ or /t/ depending on which sounds better for the word. I had the idea to actually specify the rules for that. I'm thinking about changing it to /d/ at the beginning of a word and to /t/ everywhere else. Changing it to /t/ between two vowels for examples is better than to /d/ because of the loss of intervocalic /d/ in a lot of Romance languages. But then changing it to /t/ would revert previous Germanic sound changes so I'm not sure about this. Opinions?
1. I think if you look at naturalistic sound changes, intervocalic /d/ and initial /t/ would be more natural if you view them as intervocalic lenition and word initial fortition. On the other hand having a intervocalic lenition apply twice would be a shame
Maybe there is some other possibility. /θ/ could become /t/ at the end of a word and /d/ in all other positions? I really don't know
I agree that intervocalic voicelessness with initial voicing is very unexpected.

Having it become /t/ only finally is almost the same thing as having it become /d/ in all cases. There are actually very few instances of final *þ in Proto-Germanic. One reason is that Pre-PG, final *t (> PG *þ) became *d (> PG *t), which is true of many IE branches. This final *t was lost in late PG. This is why you have words like *alu ‘ale, beer’ with a stem *aluþ-. The nom-acc.sg was originally *alut.

Perhaps it could become /t/ in all cases? That would make the language look more Romance, e.g. tū instead of dū.

Alternatively, it could become voiceless only if it comes before or immediately after a stressed (i.e. mostly initial) vowel. So somewhat like Verner's law, although not quite. Grammatical words like pronouns can count as unstressed, as in Mainland Scandinavian where initial /θ/ became /d/ in pronouns (du, det etc.) but /t/ in content words (tunn), or as in English (thou, that vs. thin).

Also note that there is often an alternation in Germanic between *þ and *d due to Verner's law, so that means you can pick which one you want and generalize that form.
Changing it according to stress is a good idea, but I don't like it becoming voiceless in a stressed syllable. Do you think it's likely for it to become voiced in a stressed position? Well, in the end that's mostly the same change I described before. I don't like the change that much either but intervocalic is really needed here imo.
Ephraim wrote:Perhaps there could be a similar shift of final *ą (maybe also *a) to *e if it is in the second syllable of an inflectional ending, or just in the third syllable of a word. So it could be a regular change, just very rare. Note that PG didn't have unstressed short *e except before *r, so some conditional changes to create unstressed *e might be good to have.
I added the Old Latin vowel reduction so that creates some unstressed e, but the change from short i to e in Vulgar Latin creates enough /e/ for me personally. But thank you anyways! [:)] Especially for this long and helpful post in general!
shimobaatar wrote:I like the looks of these so far!
Thank you!
shimobaatar wrote:What sound changes would it revert?
Grimm's law. The change from /t/ to /θ/, therefore the changing /θ/ to /t/ would revert that sound change.
shimobaatar wrote:Perhaps plants and animals?
There you go! [:P]

(Sorry Ælfwine, that I didn't say anything about your post, but thank you for the comment! [:D])

Vocabulary: Plants & Animals 1

Since shimo suggested plants and animals, here are some words. There aren't really a lot of real plants in this list, but I tried to do plant-related vocabulary. I focused on the five main Romance languages for now.

The words marked with (*) in the spoilers are words I'm unsure about (like I'm not sure if all the sound changes are correct). If anyone knows better, please tell me how the words would actually look like (even if I didn't mark them with (*))! It's mostly French because it's sometimes quite iffy and Romanian because I don't know a lot about that and the vowel changes confuse me massively.

Question marks stand for words with uncertain origins in the respective Romance languages, therefore I can't really construct a word for them, but I will most likely make up a word in this case in the future.

Plants
tree:
PG *baumaz, *bagmaz, *bazmaz, *trewą > VG bāmas (baumas), trevam
:por: bama :esp: maba :fra: baime :ita: mova :rou: bamă
Spoiler:
Etymology:

:por: bama [ˈbɐ.mɐ]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic bāmas

:esp: maba [ˈma.βa]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic bāmas; with metathesis of /m/ and /b/ because of the metathesis of arbor > arbol; Old Germañol variants include bama, mava and maba

:fra: baime [ˈbɛm]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic bāmas

:ita: mova [ˈmoː.va]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic baumas; with metathesis of /m/ and /b/ because of the metathesis of arbore > albero; the form baumas was used instead of bāmas to reflect the vowel metathesis of /o/ and /e/ in albero

:rou: bamă [ba.mə]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic bāmas; Old Germână form was bâmă, but changed to bamă influenced by VG borrowings starting with bam- because of the influenced change arbure > arbore
flower:
PG *blōmô > VG blōmō
:por: blomo :esp: blomo :fra: blom :ita: biomo :rou: blom
Spoiler:
Etymology:

:por: blomo [ˈblo.mu]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic blōmō; Old Germuguês form was bromo, but changed to blomo influenced by VG blōmō because of the change chor > flor, although bromo still exists in dialectal use

:esp: blomo [ˈblo̞.mo̞]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic blōmō; Old Germañol form was lomo, but changed to blomo influenced by VG blōmō because of the (hypothetical) change llor > flor

:fra: blom [ˈblɔ̃]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic blōmō

:ita: biomo [ˈbjoː.mo]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic blōmō

:rou: blom [ˈblom] (*)
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic blōmō
root:
PG *wrōts > VG rōs
:por: rodo :esp: rodo :fra: roin :ita: vorte :rou: ruțin
Spoiler:
Etymology:

:por: rodo [ˈʁo.ðu]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic rōs; the accusative form rōtum served as the base

:esp: rodo [ˈɾo̞.ðo̞]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic rōs; the accusative form rōtum served as the base

:fra: roin [ˈʁwɛ̃] (*)
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic rōtīnō; the suffix was added because of the added suffix in rādīx > rādicīna

:ita: vorte [ˈvɔr.te]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic rōs; the instrumental form vurtē served as the base

:rou: ruțin [ruˈtsin]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic rōtīnō, the suffix was added because of the added suffix in rādīx > rādicīna
bush/shrub:
PG *buskaz > VG buscas
:por: bala :esp: bala :fra: froutaisson :ita: bala :rou: bal
Spoiler:
Etymology:

:por: bala [ˈba.lɐ]
- borrowed from Classical Germanic bālam, because of borrowed arbusto

:esp: bala [ˈba.la]
- borrowed from Classical Germanic bālam, because of borrowed arbusto

:fra: froutaisson [fʁu.tɛˈsɔ̃]
- borrowed from Latin Frankish frutihs, because of the borrowed bois from Frankish bosk; the suffix was added because of the added suffix in bois > buisson; Old Germançais variants include frotaison and froteissun

:ita: bala [ˈbaː.la]
- borrowed from Classical Germanic bālam, because of borrowed arbusto

:rou: bal [ˈbal]
- borrowed from Classical Germanic bālam through Germançais bale, because of borrowed arbust through French arbuste
oak tree:
PG *aiks > VG aex
:por: ? :esp: ? :fra: domb :ita: eco :rou: dar
Spoiler:
Etymology:

:por: ?
- uncertain origin

:esp: ?
- uncertain origin

:fra: domb [ˈdɔ̃]
- borrowed from Proto-Slavic dǫbъ, because of borrowed chêne from Celtic cassanos

:ita: eco [ˈeː.ko]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic aex; the accusative form aecum served as the base

:rou: dar [ˈdar] (*)
- borrowed from Proto-Celtic daru, because of (most likely) borrowed stejar from Slavic
ash tree:
PG *askaz, *askiz > VG ascis
:por: eixe :esp: az :fra: ais :ita: asce :rou: aște
Spoiler:
Etymology:

:por: eixe [ˈɐj.ʃɨ]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic ascis

:esp: az [ˈaθ] (*)
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic ascis

:fra: ais [ˈɛ]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic ascis

:ita: asce [ˈaʃ.ʃe]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic ascis

:rou: aște [ˈaʃ.te]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic ascis

Animals
dog:
PG *hundaz > VG hondas
:por: onda :esp: ? :fra: onde :ita: onda :rou: undă
Spoiler:
Etymology:

:por: onda [ˈõ.dɐ]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic hondas

:esp: ?
- uncertain origin; alternative huenda from Vulgar Germanic hondas exists

:fra: onde [ˈɔ̃d]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic hondas

:ita: onda [ˈon.da]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic hondas

:rou: undă [ˈun.də]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic hondas
goat:
PG *gaits > VG gaes
:por: gedo :esp: hiedo :fra: giet :ita: geto :rou: get
Spoiler:
Etymology:

:por: gedo [ˈʒɛ.ðu]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic gaes; the accusative form gaetum served as the base

:esp: hiedo [ˈje̞.ðo̞]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic gaes; the accusative form gaetum served as the base

:fra: giet [ˈʒje]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic gaes; the accusative form gaetum served as the base; Old Germançais form was gié

:ita: geto [ˈdʒeː.to]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic gaes; the accusative form gaetum served as the base

:rou: get [ˈdʒet] (*)
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic gaes; the accusative form gaetum served as the base
bear:
PG *berô > VG berō
:por: bero :esp: biero :fra: bier :ita: bero :rou: bier
Spoiler:
Etymology:

:por: bero [ˈbɛ.ru]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic berō

:esp: biero [ˈbje̞.ro̞]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic berō

:fra: bier [ˈbje]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic berō

:ita: bero [beː.ro]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic berō

:rou: bier [ˈbjer] (*)
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic berō
horse:
PG *hrussą, *wigją > VG rossam, vigiam
:por: conhe :esp: cueñe :fra: coin :ita: cogne :rou: coaie
Spoiler:
Etymology:

:por: conhe [ˈko.ɲɨ]
- borrowed from Proto-Slavic konjь, because of borrowed Vulgar Latin caballus from Celtic

:esp: cueñe [ˈkwe̞.ɲe̞] (*)
- borrowed from Proto-Slavic konjь, because of borrowed Vulgar Latin caballus from Celtic

:fra: coin [ˈkwɛ̃]
- borrowed from Proto-Slavic konjь, because of borrowed Vulgar Latin caballus from Celtic

:ita: cogne [ˈkoɲ.ɲe]
- borrowed from Proto-Slavic konjь, because of borrowed Vulgar Latin caballus from Celtic

:rou: coaie [ko̯a.je] (*)
- borrowed from Proto-Slavic konjь, because of borrowed Vulgar Latin caballus from Celtic
fish:
PG *fiskaz > VG fiscas
:por: fesca :esp: hesca :fra: fêchon :ita: fesca :rou: fească
Spoiler:
Etymology:

:por: fesca [ˈfɛʃ.kɐ]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic fiscas

:esp: hesca [ˈe̞s.ka]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic fiscas

:fra: fêchon [fɛˈʃɔ̃]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic fiscas; the suffix was added because of the added suffix in Old French peis > peisson; Old French variants were fesche, feschon and feschun

:ita: fesca [ˈfɛs.ka]
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic fiscas

:rou: fească [ˈfe̯as.kə] (*)
- inherited from Vulgar Germanic fiscas

Sorry that there's nothing about grammar today, but I'm still stuck. [:'(]
Native: :deu:
Learning: :gbr:, :chn:, :tur:, :fra:

Zhér·dûn a tonal Germanic conlang

old stuff: Цiски | Noattȯč | Tungōnis Vīdīnōs

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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by qwed117 » 14 Aug 2016 19:51

Shouldn't fiskaz become hiedo in Spanish?
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.

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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by Zythros Jubi » 16 Aug 2016 17:14

Rhotacism can also happen in VG except word-finally, as what Latin has undergone after all.

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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by IEPH » 17 Aug 2016 16:29

Can you also do words not only in VG!Catalan and VG!Occitan, but also for Romansh, Waloon, Arpitan, Piedmontese, and Venetian

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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by qwed117 » 17 Aug 2016 16:29

IEPH wrote:Can you also do words not only in VG!Catalan and VG!Occitan, but also for Romansh, Waloon, Arpitan, Piedmontese, and Venetian
You're gonna kill him! (You did promise a romance Sardinia though)
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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by Aleks » 19 Aug 2016 03:40

I'm loving the Germanization of Romanian since my dream conlang I wish I could make is a unique branch of the Slavic family. Not East, South, or West but still close to them and has cognates just most of the vocabulary is German, Old English, and Slavic with an orthography similar to Romanian. Essentially almost what you have done to Romanian and one word I had for tree was <bamru> /bɑm.ɾu/.

Amazing job so far keep it up :D

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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by Zythros Jubi » 19 Aug 2016 16:05

Initial r in Spanish is a trill.

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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by Ælfwine » 18 Sep 2016 20:46

qwed117 wrote:Shouldn't fiskaz become hiedo in Spanish?
No, Old Spanish short stressed i > e, and I believe this happened after the shift of short e > je or was independent of it. (I need to look at my notes.)

Where does the /d/ come into play? O.o
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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by qwed117 » 18 Sep 2016 21:18

Ælfwine wrote:
qwed117 wrote:Shouldn't fiskaz become hiedo in Spanish?
No, Old Spanish short stressed i > e, and I believe this happened after the shift of short e > je or was independent of it. (I need to look at my notes.)

Where does the /d/ come into play? O.o
My mistake, hiesca.
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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by gokupwned5 » 07 Dec 2016 12:09

How is Tungōnis Vīdīnōs and it's Germance languages going?

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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by All4Ɇn » 07 Dec 2016 18:55

This is one of the most amazing things I've ever seen! [:)]
ixals wrote: :fra: onde [ˈɔ̃d]
I'd recommend spelling this one honde with a silent h

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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by gokupwned5 » 10 Sep 2017 19:08

How are Tungōnis Vīdīnōs and it's Germance languages going? I noticed that the project is on hold.

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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by shimobaatar » 10 Sep 2017 20:12

gokupwned5 wrote:How are Tungōnis Vīdīnōs and it's Germance languages going? I noticed that the project is on hold.
"on hold" probably means that they aren't "going", so to speak.

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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by ixals » 10 Sep 2017 20:15

gokupwned5 wrote:How are Tungōnis Vīdīnōs and it's Germance languages going? I noticed that the project is on hold.
How they are going? Not well, I guess. I try to get this running again probably at least once a month for an hour or so and then I end up being stuck again. I want to continue but I'm just stuck. [:S]

I think I have to make some major changes so I can continue.


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old stuff: Цiски | Noattȯč | Tungōnis Vīdīnōs

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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by Egerius » 11 Sep 2017 18:41

Oh I'd like to see more. [:)]
Languages of Rodentèrra: Buonavallese, Saselvan Argemontese; Wīlandisċ Taulkeisch; More on the road.
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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by shimobaatar » 11 Sep 2017 20:37

Egerius wrote:Oh I'd like to see more.
Well, I mean I would too, but it doesn't sound like a lack of "demand" is the problem, unless I'm missing something?

Anyway, good luck ixals!

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Re: Tungōnis Vīdīnōs - Proto-Germanic goes Romance!

Post by ixals » 11 Sep 2017 20:49

shimobaatar wrote:
Egerius wrote:Oh I'd like to see more.
Well, I mean I would too, but it doesn't sound like a lack of "demand" is the problem, unless I'm missing something?
I'd like to see more as well, but I'm at a point where I don't know what to do with it. Because of the rules and goals I've made myself for this project, I'm stuck. My new idea is simpy applying the Latin/Romance sound changes to Proto-Germanic and change the grammar in a natural way instead of trying to change the grammar so much that it is Romance as well (so the Germance languages have only two inflected tenses instead of multiple made up inflected tenses so they have as many tenses as the real Romance languages).
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old stuff: Цiски | Noattȯč | Tungōnis Vīdīnōs

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