Quick Diachronics Challenge

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shimobaatar
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar » 22 Nov 2018 05:45

I didn't use exactly the same group names as before. I apologize if that's confusing.
Spoiler:
Group A:
-[œ̃mỹgg]
-[ãnỹgg]
-[ˈʔamɨkk]
< *[ãmỹgg] (Proto-A)

Group B:
-[ə̃βitt]
-[əmets]
-[ə̃mit]
< *[ə̃mittʲ] (Proto-B)

Group C:
-[ambigi]

Group D:
-[ɔɔmiʒdʲ]
-[umiʒdʲ]
-[aamiʒʒ]
< *[aamiʒdʲ]

Group E:
-[amðð]

A *[ãmỹgg]
B *[ə̃mittʲ]
C [ambigi]
D *[aamiʒdʲ]
E [amðð]
< **[ãmbiggi] (Proto-ABCDE)

Group F:
-[vaᵍ!o]
-[vəᵍ!o]
< *[vaᵍ!o] (Proto-F)

Group G:
-[ɒhokdo]
-[ɒɸɔkdo]
< *[ɒɸɔkdo] (Proto-G)

Group H:
-[afə̥xdo]
-[afəiðo]
< *[afəkdo] (Proto-H)

Group I:
-[ɑvəkʟ̝̊o]
-[ɑvəkro]
-[havəkjo]
< *[ɑvəklo] (Proto-I)

F *[vaᵍ!o]
G *[ɒɸɔkdo]
H *[afəkdo]
I *[ɑvəklo]
< **[ɑɸakdo] (Proto-FGHI)

Group J:
-[æpəktɯɯ]
-[ɐbakʰdɯɯ]
-[ɔukdɯɯ]
-[akʷdɯɯ]
< *[apakʰdɯɯ] (Proto-J)

Group K:
-[amə̰ðɯ]

Group L:
-[anɗɯ]
-[amɓɯ]
-[ɒmədɯ̀]
< *[aməɗɯ] (Proto-L)

K [amə̰ðɯ]
L *[aməɗɯ]
< **[aməʔdɯ] (Proto-JL)

ABCDE **[ãmbiggi]
FGHI **[ɑɸakdo]
J *[apakʰdɯɯ]
KL **[aməʔdɯ]
< ***[ãpækʰdɯ] (Proto-World)
Spoiler:
Proto-World ***[ãpækʰdɯ]

Proto-ABCDE **[ãmbiggi] ([ṼpV] > [ṼmbV], [kʰd] > [gd] > [gg], [ɯ] > [i], [æC(C)i] > [eC(C)i] > [iC(C)i])
Proto-FGHI **[ɑɸakdo] ([ã] > [ɑ], [p] > [ɸ], [æ] > [a], [kʰd] > [kd], [ɯ] > [u] > [o])
Proto-J *[apakʰdɯɯ] (denasalization, [æ] > [a], final vowels lengthen)
Proto-KL **[aməʔdɯ] ([ṼpV] > [ṼmbV] > [VmV], medial vowel reduction, [kʰd] > [kd] > [ʔd])

Proto-A *[ãmỹgg] (final vowel deletion, [i] rounds to [y] next to labials, [mb] > [m], nasalization spreads)
Proto-B *[ə̃mittʲ] ([mb] > [m], (pretonic?) vowel reduction, [ggi#] > [ɟɟ#] > [cc#] > [ttʲ#])
C [ambigi] (denasalization, geminate voiced obstruents degeminate)
Proto-D *[aamiʒdʲ] ([Ṽ] > [VV], [mb] > [m], [ggi#] > [ɟɟ#] > [ddʲ#] > [ʒdʲ#])
E [amðð] (denasalization, [mb] > [m], [Vggi#] > [Vɟɟ#] > [Vddʲ#] > [Vdd#], [Vðð#], (unstressed?) vowel deletion)
Proto-F *[vaᵍ!o] ([ɸ] > [f], [kd] > [kt] > [!], intervocalic voicing, (pretonic?) vowel deletion)
Proto-G *[ɒɸɔkdo] ([ɑ] > [ɒ], rounding harmony with [a] rounding to [ɔ])
Proto-H *[afəkdo] ([ɑ] > [a], [ɸ] > [f], medial vowel reduction)
Proto-I *[ɑvəklo] ([ɸ] > [f], medial vowel reduction, intervocalic voicing, [kd] > [kl])
J₁ [æpəktɯɯ] (medial vowel reduction, [a] > [æ], [kʰd] > [kt])
J₂ [ɐbakʰdɯɯ] ((pretonic?) vowel reduction, intervocalic voicing)
J₃ [ɔukdɯɯ] ([kʰd] > [kd], [VpV] > [VbV] > [VβV] > [VwV], medial vowel deletion, [Vw] > [Vu], [a(C)u] > [ɔ(C)u])
J₄ [akʷdɯɯ] ([kʰd] > [kd], [VpV] > [VbV] > [VβV] > [VwV], medial vowel deletion, [VwC] > [VCʷ])
K [amə̰ðɯ] ([Vʔ] > [V̰], voiced stops lenite intervocalically)
Proto-L *[aməɗɯ] ([ʔd] > [ɗ])

A₁ [œ̃mỹgg] ([ãCỹ] > [æ̃Cỹ] > [ɶ̃Cỹ] > [œ̃Cỹ])
A₂ [ãnỹgg] ([m] > [n])
A₃ [ˈʔamɨkk] (word-final obstruent devoicing, vowels denasalize, [#V] > [#ʔV], [y] > [ʉ] > [ɨ])
B₁ [ə̃βitt] ([ṼmV] > [ṼβV], final depalatalization)
B₂ [əmets] (vowels denasalize, [iC(C,#)] > [ɪC(C,#)] > [eC(C,#)], final degemination, [tʲ] > [ts])
B₃ [ə̃mit] (final depalatalization, final degemination)
D₁ [ɔɔmiʒdʲ] ([aa] > [ɔɔ])
D₂ [umiʒdʲ] ([aa] > [oo] > [u])
D₃ [aamiʒʒ] ([ʒdʲ] > [ʒʒ])
F₁ [vaᵍ!o] (no change)
F₂ [vəᵍ!o] ((pretonic?) vowel reduction)
G₁ [ɒhokdo] ([ɔ] > [o], [ɸ] > [h])
G₂ [ɒɸɔkdo] (no change)
H₁ [afə̥xdo] ([kd] > [xd], vowels devoice between two voiceless consonants)
H₂ [afəiðo] ([VkdV] > [VidV] > [ViðV])
I₁ [ɑvəkʟ̝̊o] ([l] assimilates in POA and voicing to [k], [ʟ̥] > [ʟ̝̊])
I₂ [ɑvəkro] ([l] > [r])
I₃ [havəkjo] ([#V] > [#hV], [ɑ] > [a], [Cl] > [Cj])
L₁ [anɗɯ] (schwa deletion, [mɗ] > [nɗ])
L₂ [amɓɯ] (schwa deletion, [mɗ] > [mɓ])
L₃ [ɒmədɯ̀] ([a] rounds to [ɒ] next to labials, [ɗV] > [dV̀])

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Creyeditor
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor » 24 Nov 2018 22:44

Time for the final round. I'll give you some more time, since you have to include a whole lot of cognates in the end.

Full size
Spoiler:
Image
Reduced size
Spoiler:
Image
Link: https://abload.de/image.php?img=histoxround30ue6x.png

Feedback:

@all of you
Just wanted to say that I really admire the effort you put in solving this challenge. I am impressed by the sheer amount of detail you produce in your answers.

@Sangi
Spoiler:
You have identified a lot of correct groupings, even though you have also missed several higher order groupings. I will only comment on the groups that are invalied. The first invalid group is AB, though part of the problem might be that you did not group ambigi and ˈʔamɨkk within any grouping yet. Group C is invalid as is, but group C' (including amðð) is a valid group. The next invalid group is DF, which is basically one of two possible subgroupings [D;] [D;] Your low level group "southern I" is also invalid. Here's my advise: Some languages are isolates at some lower level, but can be grouped into a family at a higher level [:)] Your intermediate level grouping narrow eastern group (DFHGE) is invalid. Again, this should be enough of an advise to find some other intermediate grouping.

Don't be sad because you had some incorrect groupings. Overall your approach is still pretty good actually. Your guess on the Urheimat has gotten much closer actually.
@Cedh
Spoiler:
I said I won't give feedback on protoword guesses, but your guess actually looks a bit worse than from Sangi seems to propose [xP] Still overall it is an okay-ish guess.
@GrandPiano
Spoiler:
Wow, your grouping is almost spot on. You really identified a whole lot of groups on all levels. There are some higher order groupings that you missed, but I will focus only on the groupings you postulated that are invalid. Your purple (east) group is not valid. Advise: Some languages are isolates at some lower level, but can be grouped into a family at a higher level [:)] Your brown (west) group is also invalid and wrongly included in the orange (west) group which also makes this an invalid group. Otherwise is would be a valid group. Keep up the good work!
@Shimo
Spoiler:
I am a bit suprised. You really did a great job last round with your groupings, but you went down some wrong pathes in this one (and did not postulate that many groups at all); even though I have to admit that you identified some grouping that the others missed. You have missed several lower, intermediate and higher order groupings. I will focus on the groups you postulated that are invalid. Group A is invalid, but this is mainly because you included a language that is related less closely. The same could be said about group D, but another way of phrasing it here is that you actually missed some language here, i.e. you postulated that it is an isolate at this level, even though you should have included it here. Keep in mind that the higher order grouping ABCDE is still correct (as are all other grouping that I did not mention.) You can be especially proud of your intergration of amə̰ðɯ (your group K). Spot on!
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sangi39
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » 24 Nov 2018 23:26

Well that's my Monday and Tuesday off sorted [:D]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

shimobaatar
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar » 26 Nov 2018 01:06

Creyeditor wrote:
24 Nov 2018 22:44
@Shimo
Spoiler:
I am a bit suprised. You really did a great job last round with your groupings, but you went down some wrong pathes in this one (and did not postulate that many groups at all); even though I have to admit that you identified some grouping that the others missed. You have missed several lower, intermediate and higher order groupings. I will focus on the groups you postulated that are invalid. Group A is invalid, but this is mainly because you included a language that is related less closely. The same could be said about group D, but another way of phrasing it here is that you actually missed some language here, i.e. you postulated that it is an isolate at this level, even though you should have included it here. Keep in mind that the higher order grouping ABCDE is still correct (as are all other grouping that I did not mention.) You can be especially proud of your intergration of amə̰ðɯ (your group K). Spot on!
Spoiler:
Haha, sorry to disappoint. [:P] I must admit I didn't really understand your feedback from the first round, but I decided not to take the time to ask for clarification since I didn't want to prolong the second round any longer. I think the main thing I don't understand is how exactly you're using "lower", "intermediate", and "higher" to describe levels of groupings.

Thanks for the feedback!

No idea how I did this time. The western half of the map is still the trickiest for me. But, as usual, this was fun!
Spoiler:
Group A:
-[œ̃mỹgg]
-[ãnỹgg]
< *[ãmỹgg] (Proto-A)

Group B:
-[ə̃βitt]
-[əmets]
-[ə̃mit]
< *[ə̃micc] (Proto-B)

A *[ãmỹgg]
B *[ə̃micc]
< **[ammigg] (Proto-AB)

Group C:
-[amɪkɪʔa]
-[amikeʔə]
< *[amikɪʔa] (Proto-C)

Group D:
-[ambigi]
-[amig]
< *[ambigi] (Proto-D)

C *[amikɪʔa]
D *[ambigi]
< **[ambikiʔa] (Proto-CD)

Group E:
-[amiʒit]
-[amiɣti]
< *[amigit] (Proto-E)

Group F:
-[ˈʔamɨkk]

E *[amigit]
F [ˈʔamɨkk]
< **[amikit] (Proto-EF)

Group G:
-[mikḭ]
-[ɛmikḭ]
< *[ɛmikḭ] (Proto-G)

AB **[ammigg]
CD **[ambikiʔa]
EF **[amikit]
G *[ɛmikḭ]
< ***[ambikita] (Proto-Northwest)

Group H:
-[abumiʒd]
-[avumiʒd]
< *[abumiʒd] (Proto-H)

Group I:
-[ɔɔmiʒdʲ]
-[umiʒdʲ]
< *[aumiʒdʲ] (Proto-I)

Group J:
-[amidʒ]
-[aamiʒʒ]
< *[aamiʒdʲ] (Proto-J)

Group K:
-[amðð]
-[amiið]
< *[amiðð] (Proto-K)

H *[abumiʒd]
I *[aumiʒdʲ]
J *[aamiʒdʲ]
K *[amiðð]
< **[abumiʒdʲ] (Proto-Southwest)

NW ***[ambikita]
SW **[abumiʒdʲ]
< ****[abumikita] (Proto-West)



Group L:
-[vaᵍ!o]
-[vəᵍ!o]
< *[vaᵍ!o] (Proto-L)

Group M:
-[ɒhokdo]
-[ɒɸɔkdo]
< *[ɒɸɔkdo] (Proto-M)

Group N:
-[afə̥xdo]
-[afəiðo]
< *[afəkdo] (Proto-N)

Group O:
-[ɑvəkʟ̝̊o]
-[ɑvəkro]
-[havəkjo]
< *[ɑvəklo] (Proto-O)

L *[vaᵍ!o]
M *[ɒɸɔkdo]
N *[afəkdo]
O *[ɑvəklo]
< **[ɑɸakdo] (Proto-LMNO)

Group P:
-[aibəkdɯɯ]
-[æpəktɯɯ]
-[ɐbakʰdɯɯ]
< *[apakʰdɯɯ] (Proto-P)

Group Q:
-[ɔukdɯɯ]
-[akʷdɯɯ]
< *[aukdɯɯ] (Proto-Q)

P *[apakʰdɯɯ]
Q *[aukdɯɯ]
< **[apakʰdɯɯ] (Proto-PQ)

LMNO **[ɑɸakdo]
PQ **[apakʰdɯɯ]
< ***[ɑipakʰdu] (Proto-Southeast)

Group R:
-[amə̰ðɯ]

Group S:
-[anɗɯ]
-[amɓɯ]
< *[amɗɯ] (Proto-S)

Group T:
-[ɒmədɯ̀]
-[amɞdɯ̀]
< *[amədɯ̀] (Proto-T)

S *[amɗɯ]
T *[amədɯ̀]
< **[aməɗɯ] (Proto-ST)

R [amə̰ðɯ]
ST *[aməɗɯ]
< **[aməʔdɯ] (Proto-Northeast)

SE ***[apakʰdu]
NE **[aməʔdɯ]
< ****[ampakʰdu] (Proto-East)



West ****[abumikita]
East ****[ampakʰdu]
< *****[apmɛkʰito] (Proto-World)
Spoiler:
Proto-World *****[apmɛkʰito]

Proto-West ****[abumikita] ([pm] > [bum], [ɛCi] > [iCi], [VCʰV] > [VCV], final [o] > [a])
Proto-East ****[ampakʰdu] ([pm] > [mp], [ɛ] lowers to [a], intervocalic voicing, loss of some medial syllables, final [o] > [u])

Proto-Northwest ***[ambikita] (loss of some medial syllables, [bm] > [mb])
Proto-Southwest **[abumiʒdʲ] (intervocalic voicing, final vowel deletion, [igid] > [iɟidʲ] > [iʒdʲ])
Proto-Southeast ***[apakʰdu] ([mp] > [p])
Proto-Northeast **[aməʔdɯ] ([mp] > [m], medial vowel reduction, [əkʰdu] > [əkdu] > [əʔdu], progressive rounding harmony)

Proto-AB **[ammigg] (intervocalic voicing, loss of some medial syllables, [mb] > [mm], [gd] > [gg], final vowel loss)
Proto-CD **[ambikiʔa] ([VtV] > [VʔV])
Proto-EF **[amikit] ([mb] > [m], final vowel loss)
Proto-G *[ɛmikḭ] ([mb] > [m], [aCi] > [ɛCi], [ita] > [itə] > [it] > [iʔ] > [ḭ])
Proto-H *[abumiʒd] ([dʲ] > [d] finally)
Proto-I *[aumiʒdʲ] (voiced stops deleted intervocalically)
Proto-J *[aamiʒdʲ] ([abuC] > [aβuC] > [aβC] > [aaC])
Proto-K *[amiðð] ([ʒdʲ] > [ʒʒ], final depalatalization, [abuC] > [aβuC] > [aβC] > [aC])
Proto-LMNO **[ɑɸakdo] ([p] > [ɸ], initial [a] > [ɑ], [kʰd] > [kd], [u] lowers to [o] word-finally)
Proto-PQ **[apakʰdɯɯ] ([u] unrounds, word-final vowels lengthened)
R [amə̰ðɯ] ([Vʔ] > [V̰], voiced stops lenite intervocalically)
Proto-ST *[aməɗɯ] ([ʔd] > [ɗ])

Proto-A *[ãmỹgg] ([Vmm] > [Ṽm], [i] rounds next to labials, nasalization spreads)
Proto-B *[ə̃micc] ([Vmm] > [Ṽm], (pretonic?) vowel reduction, [igg] > [iɟɟ] > [icc])
Proto-C *[amikɪʔa] ([mb] > [m], [iʔ] > [ɪʔ])
Proto-D *[ambigi] (intervocalic voicing, final vowel deletion, [ʔ] lost word-finally)
Proto-E *[amigit] (intervocalic voicing)
F [ˈʔamɨkk] ([#V] > [#ʔV], [kit#] > [kt#] > [kk], [i] > [ɨ])
G₁ [mikḭ] ((pretonic?) vowel deletion)
G₂ [ɛmikḭ] (no change)
H₁ [abumiʒd] (no change)
H₂ [avumiʒd] ([VbV] > [VβV] > [VvV])
I₁ [ɔɔmiʒdʲ] ([au] > [ɔɔ])
I₂ [umiʒdʲ] ([au] > [u])
J₁ [amidʒ] ([aa] > [a], [ʒdʲ] > [dʒ])
J₂ [aamiʒʒ] ([ʒdʲ] > [ʒʒ])
K₁ [amðð] (loss of certain (unstressed?) vowels)
K₂ [amiið] ([iðð] > [iið])
Proto-L *[vaᵍ!o] ([kd] > [kt] > [!], [ɸ] > [f], intervocalic voicing, (pretonic?) vowel deletion)
Proto-M *[ɒɸɔkdo] ([ɑ] > [ɒ], rounding harmony)
Proto-N *[afəkdo] ([ɑ] > [a], [ɸ] > [f], medial vowel reduction)
Proto-O *[ɑvəklo] ([ɸ] > [f], intervocalic voicing, [kd] > [kl], medial vowel reduction)
Proto-P *[apakʰdɯɯ] (no change)
Proto-Q *[aukdɯɯ] ([kʰd] > [kd], [apaC] > [abaC] > [aβaC] > [aβC] > [auC])
Proto-S *[amɗɯ] (schwa deletion)
Proto-T *[amədɯ̀] ([ɗV] > [dV̀])

A₁ [œ̃mỹgg] ([ãCỹ] > [æ̃Cỹ] > [ɶ̃Cỹ] > [œ̃Cỹ])
A₂ [ãnỹgg] ([m] > [n])
B₁ [ə̃βitt] ([ṼmV] > [ṼβV], final depalatalization of [cc] > [tt])
B₂ [əmets] (vowels denasalize, [iC(C,#)] > [ɪC(C,#)] > [eC(C,#)], final degemination, [c] > [ts])
B₃ [ə̃mit] (final depalatalization of [cc] > [tt], final degemination)
C₁ [amɪkɪʔa] (regressive height harmony)
C₂ [amikeʔə] ([ɪ] > [e], final vowel reduction)
D₁ [ambigi] (no change)
D₂ [amig] ([mb] > [m], final vowel deletion)
E₁ [amiʒit] ([igi] > [iɟi] > [iʒi])
E₂ [amiɣti] (voiced stops lenite intervocalically, [it#] > [ti#])
L₁ [vaᵍ!o] (no change)
L₂ [vəᵍ!o] ((pretonic?) vowel reduction)
M₁ [ɒhokdo] ([ɸ] > [h], regressive height harmony)
M₂ [ɒɸɔkdo] (no change)
N₁ [afə̥xdo] ([kd] > [xd], vowels devoice between two voiceless consonants)
N₂ [afəiðo] ([VkdV] > [VidV] > [ViðV])
O₁ [ɑvəkʟ̝̊o] ([l] assimilates in POA and voicing to [k], [ʟ̥] > [ʟ̝̊])
O₂ [ɑvəkro] ([l] > [r])
O₃ [havəkjo] ([#V] > [#hV], [ɑ] > [a], [Cl] > [Cj])
P₁ [aibəkdɯɯ] ([a] > [æ] > [ai], intervocalic voicing, [kʰd] > [kd], medial vowel reduction)
P₂ [æpəktɯɯ] ([a] > [æ], medial vowel reduction, [kʰd] > [kt])
P₃ [ɐbakʰdɯɯ] ((pretonic?) vowel reduction, intervocalic voicing)
Q₁ [ɔukdɯɯ] ([au] > [ɔu])
Q₂ [akʷdɯɯ] ([auk] > [akʷ])
S₁ [anɗɯ] ([mɗ] > [nɗ])
S₂ [amɓɯ] ([mɗ] > [mɓ])
T₁ [ɒmədɯ̀] ([a] rounds to [ɒ] next to labials)
T₂ [amɞdɯ̀] ([ə] rounds to [ɞ] next to labials)

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Creyeditor
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor » 26 Nov 2018 20:16

shimobaatar wrote:
26 Nov 2018 01:06
Spoiler:
Haha, sorry to disappoint. [:P] I must admit I didn't really understand your feedback from the first round, but I decided not to take the time to ask for clarification since I didn't want to prolong the second round any longer. I think the main thing I don't understand is how exactly you're using "lower", "intermediate", and "higher" to describe levels of groupings.

Thanks for the feedback!
So sorry about that. Here is an example from Indo-European: By higher grouping I refer to something like Balto-Slavic, by intermediate I refer to something like Slavic and by lower level grouping to something like South Slavic. There is only one lower level and only one higher level, but there could be several intermediate ones.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » 27 Nov 2018 15:31

Hopefully this won't be too difficult to read through:
Spoiler:
Image
Spoiler:
Image
Spoiler:
J:
(a) /mikḭ/
(b) /ɛmikḭ/
< *ɛmikḭ. Presumably there was some sort of initial vowel, I'm just assuming for the moment that it was

K:
(a) /amikeʔə/
(b) /amɪkɪʔa/
< *amikeʔa

A:
(a) /ә̃mit/
(b) /ә̃βitt/
(c) /әmets/
< *әmitt maybe? I was assuming palatalisation on the basis that A and B were more closely related to each other than to anything else, but since that's invalid, I'll just reconstruct what might be the most recent common ancestral form.

L:
(a) /ambigi/
(b) /amig/
< *am(b)igi. I'm not entirely sure which is original, *mb or *m, but given that almost every other language regardless of branch has just /m/, I get the feeling that the cluster is an innovation.

M:
(a) /amiʒit/
(b) /amiɣti/
< *amiɣitə maybe? Palatalisation of in the north, as well as loss of the final vowel, while in the south the penultimate vowel was lost instead with the final vowel “strengthening” to /i/

B:
(a) /œ̃mỹgg/
(b) /ãnỹgg/
< *ãmỹgg

N:
(a) /amɨkk/
< *amɨkk

C:
(e) /abumiʒd/
(f) /avumiʒd/
(a) /ɔɔmiʒdʲ/
(b) /umiʒdʲ/
(c) /amiʒʒ/
(d) /amidʒ/
(g) /amðð/
(h) /amiið/
< *amiʒdʲ.

I've grouped these together the sake of keeping the classification from the previous round the same, but I get the feeling there are actually four lowest level sub-groups here:

C₁: /abumiʒd/ and /avumiʒd/ < *awumiʒd
C₂: /ɔɔmiʒdʲ/ and /umiʒdʲ/ < *ɔmiʒdʲ
C₃: /amiʒʒ/ and /amidʒ/ < *amiʒdʒ
C₄: /amðð/ and /amiið/ < *amiðð

Where C₁ and C₂ form a northern subgroup (Proto-C₁C₂ *ɔmiʒdʲ, Pre-Proto-C₁ *ɔ:miʒd), and C₃ and C₄ form a south-eastern subgroup (Proto-C₃C₄ *amiʒdʒ, Pre-Proto-C₄ *amizz).

Over the sea to D:
(a) /vag!o/
(b) /vәg!o/
< *vag!o ~ *vәg!o

E:
(a) /ɔukdɯɯ/
(b) /akʷdɯɯ/
< *aukdɯɯ ~ *awkdɯɯ

F:
(a) /ɒhokdo/
(b) /ɒɸɔkdo/
(c) /afə̥kdo/
(d) /afəiðo/
< *ɑfəkdo ~ ɑɸəkdo (ab and cd sub-groupings)

G:
(c) /aibəkdɯɯ/
(a) /æpəktɯɯ/
(b) /ɐbəkʰdɯɯ/
< *abəkdɯɯ. The first vowel seems to front in a and c, and then diphthongised in a similar to manner to Icelandic in c, so I get the feeling a and c are more closely related to each other than to b.

H:
(a) /ɑvəkʟ̝̊o/
(b) /ɑvəkro/
(c) /havəkjo/
< *ɑvəkro

O:
(a) /amə̰ðɯ/
< *amə̰ðɯ

I:
(a) /anɗɯ/
(b) /amɓɯ/
(c) /ɒmədɯ̀/
(d) /amɞdɯ̀/
< *aməʔdɯ, again, split into two groups, a northern one (proto-ab *amɗɯ, where the medial cluster simplifies through POA assimilation, regressive in (a) but progressive in (b)) and a southern one (proto-cd *amədɯ̀, the glottal stop having some effect on tone (maybe some sort of pitch accent?). In the northern group, the *-ʔd- cluster simplified becoming an implosive *-ɗ-.





That gives us:

Proto-J: *ɛmikḭ
Proto-K: *amikeʔa
Proto-A: *әmitt
Proto-L: *am(b)igi
Proto-M: *amiɣitə
Proto-B: *ãmỹgg
Proto-N: *amɨkk
Proto-C: *amiʒdʲ
Proto-D: *vag!o ~ *vәg!o
Proto-E: *aukdɯɯ ~ *awkdɯɯ
Proto-F: *ɑfəkdo ~ ɑɸəkdo
Proto-G: *apək(ʰ)dɯɯ
Proto-H: *ɑvəkro
Proto-O: *amə̰ðɯ
Proto-I: *aməʔdɯ





Proto-J: *ɛmikḭ
Proto-K: *amikeʔa
< *amikeʔa, or something along those lines, where the final vowel drops out in Pre-Proto-J, leading to creaky voice on the preceding vowel.

Proto-L: *am(b)igi
Proto-M: *amiɣitə
< *amigitə. The final vowel, and the resulting final consonant, drop out in the lead up to Proto-L, while in the development of Proto-M the sequence is maintained, but with lenition of voiced stops between vowels.

Proto-D: *vag!o ~ *vәg!o
Proto-F: *ɒfəkdo ~ ɒɸəkdo
Proto-H: *ɑvəkro
< *ɑvəkdo, with an eastern group (Proto-FH *ɑvəkdo) and a western group (Pre-Proto-D *vəgdo).

Proto-G: *apək(ʰ)dɯɯ
Proto-E *aukdɯɯ ~ *awkdɯɯ
< *abəkdɯɯ

Proto-O: *amə̰ðɯ
Proto-I: *aməʔdɯ
< *aməʔdɯ





That gives:

Proto-JK: *amikeʔa (Proto-North)
Proto-A: *әmitt
Proto-LM: *amigitə
Proto-N: *amɨkk
Proto-B: *ãmỹgg
Proto-C: *amiʒdʲ (Proto-South-West)
Proto-DFH: *ɑvəkdo (Proto-South-East)
Proto-GE: *abəkdɯɯ
Proto-OI: *aməʔdɯ





Proto-JK: *amikeʔa (Proto-North)
Proto-N: *amɨkk < *amikʔә
< *amikeʔa (Wider Proto-North). I want to say this might be down to some island hopping, since it's much easier to explain that geminate in Proto-N doing this than it is to somehow try and find a relationship with anything else nearby like Proto-A or Proto-LM.

Proto-A: *әmitt
Proto-LM: *amigitə
< *amikitə, maybe, if there's a Pre-Proto-A along the lines of *amictə (Proto-Central-West)

Proto-B: *ãmỹgg < *amyɟɟ
Proto-C: *amiʒdʲ (Proto-South-West)
< *amɨgʲdʲ (Wider Proto-South-West)

Proto-GE: *abəkdɯɯ
Proto-OI: *aməʔdɯ
< *aməkdɯ (Proto-North-East)





Wider Proto-North: *amikeʔa
Proto-Central-West: *amikitə
Wider Proto-South-West: *amɨgʲdʲ
Proto-North-East: *aməkdɯ
Proto-South-East: *ɑvəkdo





Wider Proto-North: *amikeʔa
Proto-Central-West: *amikitə
< *amiketə (Proto-North-West)

Proto-North-East: *aməkdɯ
Proto-South-East: *ɑvəkdo
< *aməkdɤ (Proto-East)





Proto-North-West: *amiketə
Wider Proto-South-West: *amɨgʲdʲ
< *amikede (Proto-Western)





Proto-Western: *amikede
Proto-Eastern: *aməkdɤ
< *amikəde
Spoiler:
Proto-World: *amikəde

Urheimat: Somewhere in the region of Group K given how conservative they seem to be overall
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar » 27 Nov 2018 16:57

Creyeditor wrote:
26 Nov 2018 20:16
shimobaatar wrote:
26 Nov 2018 01:06
Spoiler:
Haha, sorry to disappoint. [:P] I must admit I didn't really understand your feedback from the first round, but I decided not to take the time to ask for clarification since I didn't want to prolong the second round any longer. I think the main thing I don't understand is how exactly you're using "lower", "intermediate", and "higher" to describe levels of groupings.

Thanks for the feedback!
So sorry about that. Here is an example from Indo-European: By higher grouping I refer to something like Balto-Slavic, by intermediate I refer to something like Slavic and by lower level grouping to something like South Slavic. There is only one lower level and only one higher level, but there could be several intermediate ones.
Oh, no worries at all!

I have to say I'm not confident at all about the conclusions I've reached, but I never expect to do well in this game, and, like I said, it's fun anyway!

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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor » 27 Nov 2018 21:05

Just wanted to mention that it will take some more time to evaluate your proposals since there are so many cognates now. So don't expect the results too soon.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor » 03 Dec 2018 16:31

Is there anyone who still wants to make a guess for round three?
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by GrandPiano » 15 Dec 2018 22:32

I was planning to make another guess if I had time, but you don't need to wait for me.
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:esp: - A2
:jpn: - A2

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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor » 16 Dec 2018 22:55

I didn't have access to the forum for some time, and I am busy with christmas stuff now, so you might as well have a go @GrandPiano.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by GrandPiano » 20 Dec 2018 01:03

Alright. My last exams are tomorrow, so I should have time after that.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by GrandPiano » 31 Jan 2019 04:36

So, I actually haven't had as much free time as I thought I would, and I'm probably not going to have time to do this in the near future. I didn't mean to keep everyone waiting for this long. You can go ahead and post the results if you have them ready.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor » 31 Jan 2019 20:54

Thanks for letting me know. I had a busier January than expected, but I will probably manage to write it up in the next two weeks.
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor » 03 Feb 2019 14:23

Better late than never:

Here is the ranking: The winner is Sangi
Overall ranking
1. Sangi, 10 points
2. Shimo, 5 points
3. Grand, 3 points
4. cedh, 1 point

In each round, you could get points for the best guess and the best grouping. The winner got 2 points and the runner up got 1 point. For the Best Guess I counted the number of wrongly reconstructed segments and the one with the least won. Similarly, for the best grouping I counted the number of worngly posited groupings and, only if needed, the number of missed correct groupings. Additionally, the best guess in general got one bonus point. That was Sangi, who basically guessed the correct proto word in the first round. I left out the Urheimat guesses, since not many people took part in it and it would not have changed the overall ranking.

Round 1
Best Guess
1. Sangi, 2 points
2. Shimo, 1 point
3. Grand

Best Grouping
1. Shimo, 2 points
2. Grand, 1 point
3. Sangi

Round 2
Best Guess
1. Sangi, 2 points
2. Cedh, 1 point
3. Shimo/Grand

Best Grouping
1. Grand, 2 points
2. Sangi, 1 point
3. Shimo

Round 3
Best Guess
1. Sangi, 2 points
2. Shimo, 1 point

Best Grouping
1. Sangi, 2 points
2. Shimo, 1 point

Best guess in general

1. Sangi, 1 point

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
Edit: I wrote this post up and then accidentally closed the tab while thinking about how to present the solution. The next post will be the solution. But one sneak preview bit: The proto-word was *amikdu.

I decided to add the solution here, in order to not confuse people by posting it after the new challenge.

The first thing is the Urheimat: close to the 'Amikk-island is what I imagined. My hints where a larger number of languages in that area, more genealogical diversity in a small place and of course the very much diverging cognate there.

Here is a family tree, sorry for the large picture. The languages are numbered, the groupings have a complex indexing system anymore that does not make any sense anymore, but I promise it made sense to me at some point. Dotted lines indicate areal influence.
Spoiler:
Image
I also tried to draw the grouping, but it got a bit messy. It is also a really large picture again.
Spoiler:
Image
And the last thing I can provide is a list of sound changes for each language. I hope there aren't any mistakes in there. If you spot something feel free to ask. The proto-form is called "underlying" and the cognate in each language "surface" because I used a synchronic phonological rule applier.
Spoiler:
Lang 1
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]→[−voice]/___# amikt
∅→i/C___C amikit
[−sonorant]→[+voice]/V___V amigit
[−sonorant+voice]→[+continuant]/V___V amiɣit
iC→3i/___# amiɣti
Surface Form [amiɣti]

Lang 2
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]→[−voice]/___# amikt
∅→i/C___C amikit
[−sonorant]→[+voice]/V___V amigit
[−sonorant+voice]→[+continuant]/V___V amiɣit
[+dorsal−syllabic]→[−dorsal+coronal−anterior]/___[−low−back] amiʒit
Surface Form [amiʒit]

Lang 3
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]→[−voice]/___# amikt
∅→i/C___C amikit
[−sonorant]→[+voice]/V___V amigit
[+coronal]→∅/___# amigi
V→∅/___# amig
Surface Form [amig]

Lang 4:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]→[−voice]/___# amikt
∅→i/C___C amikit
[−sonorant]→[+voice]/V___V amigit
[+coronal]→∅/___# amigi
m→mb/{V#}___V ambigi
Surface Form [ambigi]


Lang 5:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]→[−voice]/___# amikt
∅→i/C___C amikit
C→ʔ/___# amikiʔ
∅→ə/{C#}___{C#} amikiʔə
V→[−high]/___(C)[−high−low] amikeʔə
Surface Form [amikeʔə]

Lang 6:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]→[−voice]/___# amikt
∅→i/C___C amikit
C→ʔ/___# amikiʔ
∅→ə/{C#}___{C#} amikiʔə
[+ATR]→[−ATR]/[−ATR](C)___ amɪkiʔə
[+ATR]→[−ATR]/[−ATR](C)___ amɪkɪʔə
ə→a/[−ATR](C)___ amɪkɪʔa
Surface Form [amɪkɪʔa]

Lang 7:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]→[−voice]/___# amikt
∅→i/C___C amikit
C→ʔ/___# amikiʔ
ʔ→̰/V___ amikḭ
a→ɛ/___C[−back] ɛmikḭ
Surface Form [ɛmikḭ]

Lang 8:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]→[−voice]/___# amikt
∅→i/C___C amikit
C→ʔ/___# amikiʔ
ʔ→̰/V___ amikḭ
V→∅/#___CV mikḭ
Surface Form [mikḭ]

Lang 9:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]→[−voice]/___# amikt
[−sonorant]→[3coronal3labial3dorsal]/___C amitt
a→ə/___(C)[+ATR] əmitt
∅→̃/___[+nasal] ə̃mitt
[+nasal]→[+continuant]/___ ə̃βitt
Surface Form [ə̃βitt]

Lang 10:
Derivation Table
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]→[−voice]/___# amikt
[−sonorant]→[3coronal3labial3dorsal]/___C amitt
a→ə/___(C)[+ATR] əmitt
∅→̃/___[+nasal] ə̃mitt
C→∅/C___ ə̃mit
Surface Form [ə̃mit]

Lang 11:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]→[−voice]/___# amikt
[−sonorant]→[3coronal3labial3dorsal]/___C amitt
a→ə/___(C)[+ATR] əmitt
[+high]→[−high]/[−high]C___ əmett
tt→ts/___# əmets
Surface Form [əmets]

Lang 13:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]→[−voice]/___# amikt
[−sonorant]→[1coronal1labial1dorsal]/C___# amikk
[+high]→[−front]/aC___ amɨkk
∅→ʔ/#___V ʔamɨkk
∅→ˈ/___#(C)V ˈʔamɨkk
Surface Form [ˈʔamɨkk]

Lang 15:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]1→[3voice]/___[−sonorant] amigd
[+dorsal−syllabic]→[−dorsal+coronal−anterior+distributed]/[−low−back]___ amiʒd
[−sonorant]→[2continuant]/{V#}CC0___ amiʒð
[−sonorant]→[3coronal3labial3dorsal3anterior3distributed]/___C amiðð
V→∅/C___C amðð
Surface Form [amðð]

Lang 16:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]1→[3voice]/___[−sonorant] amigd
[+dorsal−syllabic]→[−dorsal+coronal−anterior+distributed]/[−low−back]___ amiʒd
[−sonorant]→[2continuant]/{V#}CC0___ amiʒð
[+−sonorant]→[3coronal3labial3dorsal3anterior3distributed]/___C amiðð
ð→i/i___ð amiið
Surface Form [amiið]

Lang 17:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]1→[3voice]/___[−sonorant] amigd
[+dorsal−syllabic]→[−dorsal+coronal−anterior+distributed]/[−low−back]___ amiʒd
[−sonorant]→[2continuant]/{V#}CC0___ amiʒð
[+−sonorant]→[1coronal1labial1dorsal1anterior1distributed]/C___ amiʒʒ
∅→a/#___a aamiʒʒ
Surface Form [aamiʒʒ]

Lang 18:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]1→[3voice]/___[−sonorant] amigd
[+dorsal−syllabic]→[−dorsal+coronal−anterior+distributed]/[−low−back]___ amiʒd
[−sonorant]→[2continuant]/{V#}CC0___ amiʒð
[+−sonorant]→[1coronal1labial1dorsal1anterior1distributed]/C___ amiʒʒ
ʒʒ→dʒ/___ amidʒ
Surface Form [amidʒ]

Lang 19:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]1→[3voice]/___[−sonorant] amigd
[+dorsal−syllabic]→[−dorsal+coronal−anterior+distributed]/[−low−back]___ amiʒd
∅→u/a___[+labial,−syllabic] aumiʒd
∅→w/[+syllabic]___[+syllabic] awumiʒd
w→b/___ abumiʒd
Surface Form [abumiʒd]

Lang 20:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]1→[3voice]/___[−sonorant] amigd
[+dorsal−syllabic]→[−dorsal+coronal−anterior+distributed]/[−low−back]___ amiʒd
∅→u/a___[+labial,−syllabic] aumiʒd
∅→w/[+syllabic]___[+syllabic] awumiʒd
w→v/___ avumiʒd
Surface Form [avumiʒd]

Lang 21:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]1→[3voice]/___[−sonorant] amigd
[+dorsal−syllabic]→[−dorsal+coronal−anterior+distributed]/[−low−back]___ amiʒd
∅→u/a___[+labial,−syllabic] aumiʒd
∅→ʲ/[+distributed][−sonorant−labial]___ aumiʒdʲ
au→ɔɔ/#___ ɔɔmiʒdʲ
Surface Form [ɔɔmiʒdʲ]

Lang 22:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]1→[3voice]/___[−sonorant] amigd
[+dorsal−syllabic]→[−dorsal+coronal−anterior+distributed]/[−low−back]___ amiʒd
∅→u/a___[+labial,−syllabic] aumiʒd
∅→ʲ/[+distributed][−sonorant−labial]___ aumiʒdʲ
a→∅/#___[+syllabic] umiʒdʲ
Surface Form [umiʒdʲ]

Lang 23:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]1→[3voice]/___[−sonorant] amigd
[−sonorant]→[1coronal1labial1dorsal]/C___ amigg
∅→̃/[+syllabic]___[+nasal]
∅→̃/[+syllabic][+nasal]___
[+syllabic]→[+round]/[+labial]___ ãmỹgg
V→[4round]/___X0V œ̃mỹgg
Surface Form [œ̃mỹgg]

Lang 24:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
V→∅/___# amikd
[−sonorant]1→[3voice]/___[−sonorant] amigd
[−sonorant]→[1coronal1labial1dorsal]/C___ amigg
∅→̃/[+syllabic]___[+nasal]
∅→̃/[+syllabic][+nasal]___
[+syllabic]→[+round]/[+labial]___ ãmỹgg
[+nasal]→[−labial]/___X[−back,+syllabic] ãnỹgg
Surface Form [ãnỹgg]

Lang 25:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
V→[1round]/VX0___ aməkdɯ
k→ʔ/___{C#} aməʔdɯ
ʔd→ɗ/___ aməɗɯ
ə→∅/___ amɗɯ
m→n/___ɗ anɗɯ
Surface Form [anɗɯ]

Lang 26:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
V→[1round]/VX0___ aməkdɯ
k→ʔ/___{C#} aməʔdɯ
ʔd→ɗ/___ aməɗɯ
ə→∅/___ amɗɯ
ɗ→ɓ/n___ amɓɯ
Surface Form [amɓɯ]

Lang 27:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
V→[1round]/VX0___ aməkdɯ
k→ʔ/___{C#} aməʔdɯ
ʔd→ɗ/___ aməɗɯ
ɗɯ̀→dɯ̀/___ amədɯ̀
[+low]→ɒ/___[+labial] ɒmədɯ̀
Surface Form [ɒmədɯ̀]

Lang 28:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
V→[1round]/VX0___ aməkdɯ
k→ʔ/___{C#} aməʔdɯ
ʔd→ɗ/___ aməɗɯ
ɗɯ→dɯ̀/___ amədɯ̀
[−low]→[+round]/[+labial]___ amɞdɯ̀
Surface Form [amɞdɯ̀]

lang 29:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
V→[1round]/VX0___ aməkdɯ
k→ʔ/___{C#} aməʔdɯ
∅→̰/V___ʔ amə̰ʔdɯ
ʔ→∅/___ amə̰dɯ
[−sonorant+voice]→[+continuant]/V(̰)___V amə̰ðɯ
Surface Form [amə̰ðɯ]

Lang 31:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
V→[1round]/VX0___ aməkdɯ
∅→ɨ/ɨ___# aməkdɯɯ
[+nasal]→[−sonorant]/___V abəkdɯɯ
[+low]→[+tense]/#___ æbəkdɯɯ
æ→ai/___ aibəkdɯɯ
Surface Form [aibəkdɯɯ]

Lang 32:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
V→[1round]/VX0___ aməkdɯ
∅→ɨ/ɨ___# aməkdɯɯ
[+nasal]→[−sonorant]/___V abəkdɯɯ
[+low]→[+tense]/#___ æbəkdɯɯ
[−sonorant]→[−voice]/___V æpəktɯɯ
Surface Form [æpəktɯɯ]

Lang 33:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
V→[1round]/VX0___ aməkdɯ
∅→ɨ/ɨ___# aməkdɯɯ
[+nasal]→[−sonorant]/___V abəkdɯɯ
∅→ʰ/[−voice−sonorant−continuant]___ abəkʰdɯɯ
[+low]→[+pharyngeal+tense−front]/___ ɐbəkʰdɯɯ
Surface Form [ɐbəkʰdɯɯ]

lang 35:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
V→[1round]/VX0___ aməkdɯ
∅→ɨ/ɨ___# aməkdɯɯ
[+nasal]→[+continuant−nasal+sonorant+dorsal+round]/___V awəkdɯɯ
wə→u/___ aukdɯɯ
[+low]→[+round−low+back]/___[+round] ɔukdɯɯ
Surface Form [ɔukdɯɯ]

lang 36:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
V→[1round]/VX0___ aməkdɯ
∅→ɨ/ɨ___# aməkdɯɯ
[+nasal]→[+continuant−nasal+sonorant+dorsal+round]/___V awəkdɯɯ
wə→u/___ aukdɯɯ
uk→kʷ/___ akʷdɯɯ
Surface Form [akʷdɯɯ]

lang 37:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
[+syllabic]→[−high]/___# aməkdo
m→v/V___V avəkdo
v→f/___V afəkdo
V→[4round−front,+back]/___X0V ɒfokdo
f→h/___ ɒhɔkdo
Surface Form [ɒhokdo]

lang 38:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
[+syllabic]→[−high]/___# aməkdo
m→v/V___V avəkdo
v→f/___V afəkdo
V→[4round−front,+back]/___X0V ɒfokdo
f→ɸ/V___V ɒɸokdo
Surface Form [ɒɸokdo]

lang 39:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
[+syllabic]→[−high]/___# aməkdo
m→v/V___V avəkdo
v→f/___V afəkdo
[−sonorant]→[+continuant]/___[−sonorant−continuant−syllabic] afəxdo
∅→̻/[−voice,-syllabic][+syllabic]___[−voice] afə̻xdo
Surface Form [afə̻xdo]

lang 40:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
[+syllabic]→[−high]/___# aməkdo
m→v/V___V avəkdo
v→f/___V afəkdo
[−sonorant]→[+continuant]/___[−sonorant−continuant−syllabic] afəxdo
xd→ið/___ afəiðo
Surface Form [afəiðo]

lang 41:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
[+syllabic]→[−high]/___# aməkdo
m→v/V___V avəkdo
[−syllabic]→[+sonorant+lateral]/[−continuant]___ avəklo
[+low]→[−front+back]/___ ɑvəklo
l→ʟ̝̊/[+dorsal−continuant]___ ɑvəkʟ̝̊o
Surface Form [ɑvəkʟ̝̊o]

lang 42:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
[+syllabic]→[−high]/___# aməkdo
m→v/V___V avəkdo
[+−syllabic]→[+sonorant+lateral]/[+−continuant]___ avəklo
[+low]→[−front+back]/___ ɑvəklo
[+lateral]→[+sonorant−lateral]/[−continuant]___ ɑvəkro
Surface Form [ɑvəkro]

lang 43:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
[+syllabic]→[−high]/___# aməkdo
m→v/V___V avəkdo
[−syllabic]→[+sonorant+lateral]/[−continuant]___ avəklo
[+lateral]→j/[−continuant]___ avəkjo
∅→h/#___V havəkjo
Surface Form [havəkjo]

lang 45:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
[+syllabic]→[−high]/___# aməkdo
m→v/V___V avəkdo
kd→ᶢǃ/V___V avəᶢǃo
ə→∅/VC___ avᶢǃo
aC→3a/#___ vaᶢǃo
Surface Form [vaᶢǃo]

lang 47:
Underlying Representation /amikdu/
i→ə/C___C aməkdu
[+syllabic]→[−high]/___# aməkdo
m→v/V___V avəkdo
kd→ᶢǃ/V___V avəᶢǃo
a→ə/#___ əvəᶢǃo
ə→∅/#___ vəᶢǃo
Surface Form [vəᶢǃo]
Last edited by Creyeditor on 07 Feb 2019 22:19, edited 2 times in total.
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sangi39
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » 03 Feb 2019 14:32

That's actually a really clever way of coming up with a winner. Objective, clear-cut, and even if all the data is there to start with, the use of "rounds" keeps everything ordered, and I suppose could even work if people join in late.

I'd definitely be interested in seeing the whole thing laid out before I post my challenge [:)] (I'd already written one up back in December maybe. I like to keep a few to hand, lol, so I can present mine whenever)
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » 07 Feb 2019 12:10

I thought I'd set my challenge now. I don't think I'll have any set deadlines, just "whenever I think enough people have replied to respond myself", but here it is:

Image

1:
(a) /ˈkoul/
(b) /ʔaˈret/
(c) /huˈkeda/

2:
(a) /ˈpukul/
(b) /ʔaˈrat/
(c) /tuˈkadu/

3:
(a) /ˈʔukila/
(b) /ʔaˈranu/
(c) /tuˈkaidu/

4:
(a) /ˈʔopina/
(b) /ʔaˈreno/
(c) /tuˈkeiro/

5:
(a) /ˈʔopina/
(b) /ʔaˈdendu/
(c) /tuˈkiero/

6:
(a) /ˈʔopila/
(b) /ˈdendu/
(c) /ˈkiedo/

7:
(a) /ˈoʃila/
(b) /ˈlendu/
(c) /ˈtʃeedo/

8:
(a) /ˈeela/
(b) /ˈlendu/
(c) /ˈceedu/


There are three words with descendants in eight languages to work through and reconstruct this time round (I think three is still few enough to be manageable, but large enough to, hopefully, show how the eight languages might be related).
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by shimobaatar » 07 Feb 2019 22:04

A very quick, preliminary attempt. I'm especially unsure about (a).
Spoiler:
(a) */ˈkopila/
(b) */ʔaˈrendu/
(c) */tuˈkeedo/

(a) */ˈkopila/
-/kVp/ undergoes metathesis in 2.
-Initial /k/ merges with /ʔ/ in 3-8.
-/p/ becomes /k/ in 3.
-/ʔ/ is lost in 6 in unstressed syllables, and unconditionally in 7-8.
-/i/ becomes /u/ following /o/ in 1-2.
-Stressed /o/ becomes /u/ in 2-3.
-/l/ becomes /n/ in 4-5.
-/p/ palatalizes to /ʃ/ before /i/ in 7.
-/p/ is lost intervocalically in 1 and 8.
-Final non-mid vowels are lost in 1-2.
-/oi/ becomes /ee/ in 8.

(b) */ʔaˈrendu/
-/nd/ becomes /d/ in 1-2.
-/nd/ becomes /n/ in 3-4.
-/ʔ/ is lost in 6 in unstressed syllables, and unconditionally in 7-8.
-/r/ becomes /d/ in 5-6.
-/r/ becomes /l/ in 7-8.
-Pretonic syllables are lost in 6-8.
-Final /u/ becomes /o/ in 4.
-/e/ becomes /a/ in 2-3.
-Final non-mid vowels are lost in 1-2.
-Final obstruent devoicing takes place in 1-2.

(c) */tuˈkeedo/
-/d/ becomes /r/ in 4-5.
-/ee/ becomes /ei/ in 1-4.
-/ee/ becomes /ie/ in 5-6.
-/ei/ becomes /e/ in 1-2.
-/e/ becomes /a/ in 2-3.
-Pretonic syllables are lost in 6-8.
-/k/ palatalizes to /c/ before front vowels in 7-8.
-/c/ becomes /tʃ/ in 7.
-Final /o/ becomes /u/ in 2-3 and 8.
-Final /o/ becomes /a/ in 1.
-Initial /t/ lenites to /h/ in 1.

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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by Creyeditor » 17 Feb 2019 15:20

I am a bit confused. I did try to reconstruct (a), (b), and (c) and was really confident about each of the groupings and reconstructions until I realized that they do not match up at all. So I'm going to give my guess for (a) first and then wait and see if I come up with any idea to link the reconstructions.
Spoiler:
(a) Proto-Word: *opkila

-Proto 1-3-7-8: okila
--Pre 1: *kula
--Pre 3: *ʔokila
--Pre 7: *otʃila > *oʃila
--Pre 8: *oʔila > *oila

-Pre-2: *pokila

-Proto 4-5-6: *ʔopila

--Proto 4-5: *ʔopina
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Re: Quick Diachronics Challenge

Post by sangi39 » 21 Feb 2019 11:26

I thought, just to give an extra hint, that I'd throw in a fourth word, which is related to word "a", with "a" being formed by a form of reduplication from this new word "d":

1:
(a) /ˈkoul/
(d) /ˈkʷil/

2:
(a) /ˈpukul/
(d) /ˈkil/

3:
(a) /ˈʔukila/
(d) /ˈkila/

4:
(a) /ˈʔopina/
(d) /ˈpina/

5:
(a) /ˈʔopina/
(d) /ˈpina/

6:
(a) /ˈʔopila/
(d) /ˈpila/

7:
(a) /ˈoʃila/
(d) /ˈʃila/

8:
(a) /ˈeela/
(d) /ˈhila/

I hope that helps solve any confusion regarding word "a", since it seems to have been the trickiest one.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

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