Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

A forum for all topics related to constructed languages
User avatar
Creyeditor
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4495
Joined: 14 Aug 2012 18:32

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Creyeditor » 31 May 2017 19:37

That's actually pretty neat.
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 :deu: 2 :eng: 3 :idn: 4 :fra: 4 :esp:
:con: Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
[<3] Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics [<3]

User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1790
Joined: 01 Mar 2014 07:19

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » 31 May 2017 20:42

Creyeditor wrote:That's actually pretty neat.
Thanks [:D]

User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1790
Joined: 01 Mar 2014 07:19

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » 31 May 2017 20:46

Yes and No
Yes and no have a wide variety of translations in Ởnh·Vú depending on the verb they are used in response to as well as the level of formality

Formal Yes
Image
Formal No
Image
Informal
亞À- Yes (also means Asia, character used for its pronunciation)
空Ỏ- No

Sample Sentences:
Image

User avatar
Frislander
runic
runic
Posts: 3125
Joined: 14 May 2016 17:47
Location: The North

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Frislander » 02 Jun 2017 14:14

I'm liking those affirmative and negative responses! We don't see those all that often! I especially like that Sinitic loan for the formal "not have".

I like how instead of either going for a single particle for all cases, or with the verb-repetition strategy for all of them, you have a nice middle path with repetition permissible for a few common verbs. Is this a common pattern in Chamic or Southeast Asia more generally?

User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1790
Joined: 01 Mar 2014 07:19

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » 03 Jun 2017 02:49

Frislander wrote:I'm liking those affirmative and negative responses! We don't see those all that often! I especially like that Sinitic loan for the formal "not have".
Thanks. I'm quite a fan of that borrowing myself
Frislander wrote:I like how instead of either going for a single particle for all cases, or with the verb-repetition strategy for all of them, you have a nice middle path with repetition permissible for a few common verbs. Is this a common pattern in Chamic or Southeast Asia more generally?
From my understanding that's typically how it's done in Mandarin although unlike in Ởnh·Vú it can be done with any verb even if it isn't always done so

User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1790
Joined: 01 Mar 2014 07:19

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » 05 Jun 2017 23:26

I don't think I have any grammatical or syntactical topics left so if you guys have any suggestions for posts I'm all ears [:D]

User avatar
Creyeditor
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4495
Joined: 14 Aug 2012 18:32

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Creyeditor » 06 Jun 2017 00:54

There's the sequential 'and'-stuff. You could embedd this in a general overview of clausal connectives.
Have we already heard anything about subordination? I would be interested.
Also you mentioned there is some construction where a verbs takes two objects, that are connected by possession. I would like to see concrete examples.
Spoiler:
All4Ɇn wrote:[...]
Creyeditor wrote:In the first example you do not need an object because the verb is intransitive and the 'street' is just a location expressed by some adverbial-like construction. In the second example on the other hand the 'street' has become a proper object that cannot be omitted (see third example) and gets accusative case. I know that some language (Mandarin Chinese, I think) have periphrastic constructions to make a verb take more objects than it usually does.
Ah I think I see what you're saying. As objects can be omitted situations like this don't typically happen. With Mandarin afaik a verb that takes 2 objects use two that are in some one way related to each other. Ởnh·Vú would use possession in this case and can only take one direct object without the use of a conjunction
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 :deu: 2 :eng: 3 :idn: 4 :fra: 4 :esp:
:con: Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
[<3] Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics [<3]

User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1790
Joined: 01 Mar 2014 07:19

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » 06 Jun 2017 01:01

Creyeditor wrote:There's the sequential 'and'-stuff. You could embedd this in a general overview of clausal connectives.
Have we already heard anything about subordination? I would be interested.
Thanks for reminding me of this. I'll cover clauses and conjunctions soon

Creyeditor wrote:Also you mentioned there is some construction where a verbs takes two objects, that are connected by possession. I would like to see concrete examples.
Sorry if I made it seem like it's a unique grammar point. What I was trying to say is that from what I can see verbs that take 2 objects seem to have one that is possessed by another. For example the verb could take both John and arm as objects. Rather than do this, Ởnh·Vú simply would use one object with something along the lines of john's arm.

User avatar
Creyeditor
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4495
Joined: 14 Aug 2012 18:32

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Creyeditor » 06 Jun 2017 13:03

All4Ɇn wrote:
Creyeditor wrote:
Creyeditor wrote:Also you mentioned there is some construction where a verbs takes two objects, that are connected by possession. I would like to see concrete examples.
Sorry if I made it seem like it's a unique grammar point. What I was trying to say is that from what I can see verbs that take 2 objects seem to have one that is possessed by another. For example the verb could take both John and arm as objects. Rather than do this, Ởnh·Vú simply would use one object with something along the lines of john's arm.
Maybe you could expand this constuction two other ditransitive constructions. It would be cool, if you could say 'I brought [you-DAT] [a present]' and 'I brought [your present].' both exist and these two would alternate according to some semantic or syntactic condition [:)]
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 :deu: 2 :eng: 3 :idn: 4 :fra: 4 :esp:
:con: Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
[<3] Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics [<3]

User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1790
Joined: 01 Mar 2014 07:19

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » 06 Jun 2017 16:10

Creyeditor wrote:Maybe you could expand this constuction two other ditransitive constructions. It would be cool, if you could say 'I brought [you-DAT] [a present]' [:)]
Well this construction already exists. Verbs can take both indirect and direct objects. They can't however take more than one indirect or direct without a preposition like they can in Mandarin

User avatar
Creyeditor
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4495
Joined: 14 Aug 2012 18:32

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Creyeditor » 06 Jun 2017 18:10

Creyeditor wrote:
All4Ɇn wrote:
Creyeditor wrote:
Creyeditor wrote:Also you mentioned there is some construction where a verbs takes two objects, that are connected by possession. I would like to see concrete examples.
Sorry if I made it seem like it's a unique grammar point. What I was trying to say is that from what I can see verbs that take 2 objects seem to have one that is possessed by another. For example the verb could take both John and arm as objects. Rather than do this, Ởnh·Vú simply would use one object with something along the lines of john's arm.
Maybe you could expand this constuction two other ditransitive constructions. It would be cool, if you could say 'I brought [you-DAT] [a present]' and 'I brought [your present].' both exist and these two would alternate according to some semantic or syntactic condition [:)]
Sorry for bringing this up again. I guess I am just a bit too excited about this constrution [:D]
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 :deu: 2 :eng: 3 :idn: 4 :fra: 4 :esp:
:con: Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
[<3] Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics [<3]

User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1790
Joined: 01 Mar 2014 07:19

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » 06 Jun 2017 19:40

Creyeditor wrote:Sorry for bringing this up again. I guess I am just a bit too excited about this constrution [:D]
Well both very much are possible

User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1790
Joined: 01 Mar 2014 07:19

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » 06 Jun 2017 20:01

Clausal Conjunctions
There are 2 kinds of clausal conjunctions: those that behave like relative clause nouns and those that don’t. There is no equivalent for the conjunction “that” and where it would be used the two sentences are simply joined together.

Those similar to relative clauses
𣅶 (Đrã)- When (present/future/recent past)
時 (Sưy)- When (distant past)
兜 (Lơnh)- Where
物 (Mut)- What/which
𠊛 (Ởnh)- Who
咦牢 (Ha·Khet)- Why
芇 (Ỹ)- How/the way
𠓀𢗼 (Đỉ·Lo)- Before
耒 (Húy)- After
𠓀捉 (Đỉ·Áo)- Until
Sample sentence:
倅䋃ヌ步𧶮𣅶 (Cư đrã·đrã lảt mờ đrã)- I was fast when I walked (1S.FAM fast walk prep)


Others
間於 (Ghen·Đi)- While/at the same time as
爲 (Cao)- Because/since
耒 (Húy)- (And) then
咍 (Áy)- Or
雖 (Suy)- Although
𤳄 (Cúy)- So
以 (Nuinh)- In order to
Sample sentence:
倅䋃ヌ雖湄 (Cư đrã·đrã suy hứy)- I was fast although it was raining (1s.FAM fast CONJ rain)
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 20 Jul 2018 09:26, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Creyeditor
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4495
Joined: 14 Aug 2012 18:32

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Creyeditor » 06 Jun 2017 23:31

The order of the clause and the connective is different, right?
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 :deu: 2 :eng: 3 :idn: 4 :fra: 4 :esp:
:con: Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
[<3] Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics [<3]

User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1790
Joined: 01 Mar 2014 07:19

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » 07 Jun 2017 00:00

Creyeditor wrote:The order of the clause and the connective is different, right?
Yep. In the top ones the clause comes before the connective while in the bottom ones they come after

User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1790
Joined: 01 Mar 2014 07:19

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » 11 Jun 2017 20:50

Classifiers
Classifiers are placed between the number and the noun that they refer to. Classifiers are placed into 2 groups based on the kind of numbers they take: traditional or Chinese. Above 1000, all numbers are automatically Chinese numbers with no exceptions. Although Chinese counters tend to involve length and money, this is far from a rule and the which set of numbers a counter takes must be learned on its own. Below are some of the more common counters:

Traditional
𣘃 (Bè)- Long/thin/stick-like objects (bottles, rivers, ties, roads, sticks, etc.)
𧷺 (Bõ)- Round objects
丐 (Cà)- Any inanimate object without its own counter
𥟌 (Cả)- Bovids/deer
座 (Đừ)- Buildings/statues
鉗 (Ghém)- Fish/invertebrates
面 (Mèn)- Flat and smooth surfaces (e.g: flags, mirrors, walls)
人 (Nin)- People
瞂 (Pá)- Days
片 (Pẽn)- Thin/flat objects not made of paper (e.g: CDs, slices, movies, DVD’s)
𦑃 (Sãp)- Birds/bats
𦲿 (Vã)- Leaves, sheets and other thin items made out of leaves/paper
畫 (Vẽ)- Character strokes
回 (Vi)- Number of times/occurrences
𡓋 (Y)- Animals
神 (Yãnh)- Gods/spirits/holy people/weather phenomena

Chinese
倍 (Bứy)- Number of times something is multiplied
章 (Chanh)- Chapters
種 (Chónh)- Kinds/types/sorts
週 (Chu)- Weeks
層 (Đơnh)- Stories/Floors/Strata
銅 (Đunh)- Đồng
𣇞 (Đrả)- Hours
冊 (Đréc)- Books
之 (Mớ)- Seconds
年 (Nen)- Years
丿 (Pun)- Minutes
本 (Pứn)- Volumes (of books and movies)/issues (of magazines)/tv show episodes
歲 (Xờy)- Years of age
夜 (Yà)- Nights/overnight stays
曜 (Yè)- Days of the week
圓 (Yúin)- Yuan
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 14 Apr 2018 19:14, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
qwed117
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4400
Joined: 20 Nov 2014 02:27

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by qwed117 » 11 Jun 2017 21:36

This is just a general question, but did this trait evolve from contact with Chinese and Austro-Asiatic? (and even less relevantly, are there any hypotheses linking that trait with Andamese?)
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.

User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1790
Joined: 01 Mar 2014 07:19

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » 11 Jun 2017 22:12

qwed117 wrote:This is just a general question, but did this trait evolve from contact with Chinese and Austro-Asiatic? (and even less relevantly, are there any hypotheses linking that trait with Andamese?)
From my understanding, Proto-Chamic developed classifiers due to contact with Mon-Khmer and then further borrowed some counters from Malay which went through a similar process on its own. Similar to some other Proto-Chamic languages, Ởnh·Vú further extended its number of classifiers due to contact with Chinese. I haven't seen anything about a relation to that with Andamese but I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case

User avatar
All4Ɇn
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1790
Joined: 01 Mar 2014 07:19

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn » 16 Jun 2017 16:22

Since I've finished grammar and syntax as far as I'm aware would you guys be interested in me covering some of the more complicated characters with multiple readings?

Zythros Jubi
sinic
sinic
Posts: 340
Joined: 24 Nov 2014 17:31

Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Zythros Jubi » 16 Jun 2017 16:29

What's the etymology of the word for "hour"?

Post Reply