Atlas: new auxlang

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Davush
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Davush » 19 Sep 2017 01:41

I think really the aspect system which Atlas proposes would need to undergo the test of 'real' usage among speakers for a certain period of time to see where it causes confusion and/or too much ambiguity. Such ideas often seem nice on paper, but most aspect systems in the world's language contain many quirks and lexically determined usages, or other particular usages which have gained a certain nuance/meaning. I don't think Atlas would be different in this regard, and I imagine if there were ever 'native' speakers, actual usage would look quite different from the intended way. But then I suppose having native speakers isn't the goal of most auxlangs... (or is it)?

The example 'I used to live in Chicago' with a non-permanent aspect when it is not your home is pretty specific, not particularly intuitive, and illustrates my point above of a specific meaning becoming attached to a lexical item when used with a certain aspect.

Keenir
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Keenir » 19 Sep 2017 04:40

Rodiniye wrote:
Here's a counterexample:
Well having a very small and for most people unknown country as an example does not really invalidate the Atlas. Following your phylosophy you could have added Australia as well for instance, or New Zealand...

But still. I fly every day. I am uncapable of saying where every country begins/ends, except for islands. Even then, imagine an aircraft flying above Nauru. If you had no knowledge about that island, you would not be able to say it is a country.
on the other hand, if that aircraft then flies over The Orknies, you wouldn't know the border swings around it - its not a country, its a part of the Scottish Mainland.
but why would you say that second one? (i said it to myself a few times, and every time i felt like i was mocking a blind person)
Well, that might be one of the usages! [:D] But think about other examples: Wi nai das quges (I can't play -now-) or wi nai das qugis (I can't play). In the first one maybe you are injured short-medium term, and in the second one maybe it's long term or it is a disability etc.
Atlas-speakers are odd, then. but better than folks where I grew up:
Normally, when someone says "Can you come over and play?", they are only asking for right then - if I say "I can't play", they don't care if its permanent or not...they're not going to sit around and wait for me to physically recover - they'll go play ball without me.
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799

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Xing
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Xing » 24 Sep 2017 14:11

Some more thoughts in the post on nations:
As you would expect, country names can take also an -i ending (adjectives):

Zi esset al-itsa Barati - He/she was the Indian person.

Could you use just the a-suffix to render the meaning 'person from (country)'? Like Vranse 'France' -> Vransa 'Frenchman'? It would seem like a quite straightforward way.
Some countries are directly transcribed from its original language, or one of its original languages (in case that more than one language is spoken in the country):


When you transcribe the names of the countries, do you try to follow the pronunciation or the orthography in the native language? (Looking at the list, it seems like you've adopted a somewhat mixed strategy, sometimes seeking to preserve pronunciation, while sometimes following the native orthography, even if this means that an Atlas speaker would pronounce the country's name in a way that's very different from its native pronunciation.)

In the section on phonology in the grammar, you list no rules of phonotactics. How would you ensure that a transcribed country name does not contain sequences that might be linguistically unusual or difficult to pronounce for many people?

Finally, I note that there are Atlas names for 'England' and 'Holland', but not for 'United Kingdom' or the 'Netherlands'.

Rodiniye
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Rodiniye » 29 Sep 2017 20:39

Could you use just the a-suffix to render the meaning 'person from (country)'? Like Vranse 'France' -> Vransa 'Frenchman'? It would seem like a quite straightforward way.
Correct! I will talk about that in future blog updates, but it is exactly as you said.
When you transcribe the names of the countries, do you try to follow the pronunciation or the orthography in the native language? (Looking at the list, it seems like you've adopted a somewhat mixed strategy, sometimes seeking to preserve pronunciation, while sometimes following the native orthography, even if this means that an Atlas speaker would pronounce the country's name in a way that's very different from its native pronunciation.)

Finally, I note that there are Atlas names for 'England' and 'Holland', but not for 'United Kingdom' or the 'Netherlands'.
I try to take the original noun (sometimes it is in different languages, so in one of them) and then transcribe it by pronunciation. Obviously in many cases Atlas will not be able to copy that pronunciation exactly or it might not be easy, so in those cases there might be a difference. Take "Arhentina" for instance, the Spanish "g" sound in there does not exist in Atlas.

You are right, those need to be added. Thanks!
Atlas-speakers are odd, then. but better than folks where I grew up.
If Atlas makes people better or nicer, so be it! [;)]

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Xing
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Xing » 01 Oct 2017 12:02

Rodiniye wrote:

I try to take the original noun (sometimes it is in different languages, so in one of them) and then transcribe it by pronunciation. Obviously in many cases Atlas will not be able to copy that pronunciation exactly or it might not be easy, so in those cases there might be a difference. Take "Arhentina" for instance, the Spanish "g" sound in there does not exist in Atlas.
Sverige 'Sweden'. It should be something like Swerie. Do you have a general system for how to handle 'foreign' phonemes in Atlas? (Say, if a /ɬ/ or /ɣ/ appeared in a foreign name?)

Rodiniye
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Re: Atlas: new auxlang

Post by Rodiniye » 06 Oct 2017 21:44

verige 'Sweden'. It should be something like Swerie. Do you have a general system for how to handle 'foreign' phonemes in Atlas? (Say, if a /ɬ/ or /ɣ/ appeared in a foreign name?)
Absolutely right, for some reason I had another pronunciation in my mind.

Not really, it would be impossible to have rules for every single sound. Just choose whatever is more similar to Atlas.

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