Grammuary 2018

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Fluffy8x » 14 Jan 2018 01:58

Middle Rymakonian: Deontic recommendation ("should") is marked by <-₄> on the verb. (<₄> is a "halfway" version of the rod signal <4>.)
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Khemehekis » 14 Jan 2018 04:59

January 13

Inspired by viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6530#p271730 :

Note that the prepositional object in such noun "compounds" is often singular even where one would expect a plural. For instance, "lung cancer" is called voshayid na rina, not voshayid na rinas, even when both lungs are afflicted.
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Creyeditor » 14 Jan 2018 21:12

Fluffy8x wrote:
14 Jan 2018 01:58
Middle Rymakonian: Deontic recommendation ("should") is marked by <-₄> on the verb. (<₄> is a "halfway" version of the rod signal <4>.)
Is there also Epistemic recommendation?
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Fluffy8x » 14 Jan 2018 21:51

Creyeditor wrote:
14 Jan 2018 21:12
Is there also Epistemic recommendation?
Hmm, "recommendation" wouldn't really make sense; more like "probability".
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by gestaltist » 14 Jan 2018 22:30

Grammuary 14 - Nakarian

Nakarian shall have four core cases marked with suffixes: Nominative (unmarked), Accusative (-e/-ạ depending on vowel harmony), Dative (-h/-ha (the latter after closed syllables), Locative (-vo). After applying morphophonetic rules, this gives a range of surface forms, especially in the Dative.

Some examples:

NOM tàn ACC tàne DAT tànsa LOC tàmvo
NOM kina ACC kinee DAT kinsa LOC kinavo
NOM bahar ACC bahare DAT baharra LOC baharvo
NOM sorạ ACC sorạạ DAT sothạ̀ạ LOC sorạvo

(The grave means low tone, ạ is the schwa.)

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Parlox » 14 Jan 2018 23:56

Looks like i have missed quite a bit. I'll do a little bit of catching up, and do the rest tomorrow.

Day 4
I have created a huge amount of conjunctions, i'm still not done quite yet.

Day 5
Possessive pronouns are formed by affixing the conjunction bouz "with" on any pronoun.

Day 6
Comparative and superlative adjectives are formed by affixing a variety of particles onto an adjective, they always agree with the verbs basic aspect(Perfect, imperfect, gnomic).

Day 7
Lozkazmat uses SVO word order. Though VSO word order is used when making an inferential statement.

Day 8
Lozkazmat now has a Plupluperfect aspect, as displayed below.

Azem veur’zacq eup keurnas.
3RD.NEU.AFF PLPLPER that accident
It had happened before the accident

Day 9
I have determined how cardinal numerals work in Lozkazmat, though it's still a work on progress.

Day 10
Ordinal numbers in Lozkazmat are formed by affixing Mëlomoun “position” on the end of a cardinal number. This results in ridiculously long numbers.

First, leunmëlomoun.
Tenth, leunasozmëlomoun.
Hundrenth, leunnagrmëlomoun.
Thousandth, leunnagasozmëlomoun.
Millionth, keur'meunmëlomoun.
Billionth, keur'lanmëlomoun.
Trillionth, keur'sonmëlomoun.
Quadrillionth, keur'nagounmëlomoun.

I think i'll try to find a way to shorten this a bit.
  • :con: Cajun, a descendant of French spoken in Louisiana.
  • :con: Bàsupan, loosely inspired by Amharic.
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire, a fusion of Welsh and Arabic.

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Keenir » 15 Jan 2018 08:26

In Stoplang:

Day 11:
For stating that one object is bigger than another object, use -'ipii.
A bas 'akanaka-'ipi pos kibebebe
[a bas ʔa.ka.na.ka.ʔip pos ki.be.beb
A puppy is bigger than crabs.

Day 12:
For stating that one object is nearer to the speaker than another object, use _'ipi_
Example: A naba a bas 'akanaka 'ipi
[a na.ba a bas ʔa.ka.na.ka ʔip]
A puppy is nearer to be than you are.
{pragmatically, this means the speaker likes the puppy more than the speaker likes you}

Day 13: when talking about people, _pi_ is an alienable possession.
Example: A taba pi lasunuthu
[a ta.ba pi la.sunT]
My shirt?

Day 14:
When daasaafe is in the middle of a statement, its normal definition applies. However, when it is sentence-final, it means thinking.
Example: A thaba a daasaafe
[a Ta.ba a da:.sa:f]
I'm thinking!
{pragmatically: "I'm thinking (or trying to), so quit bugging me"}

Day 15:
When faced with a non-human subject, _pi_ is inalienable and intrinsic.
Example: A kaabaa pi bas 'akanaka
[a ka:.ba: pi bas ʔa.ka.na.ka]
The holy puppy.
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by gestaltist » 15 Jan 2018 10:49

Grammuary 15 - Nakarian

I decided a few things about expressing feelings:
  • this will be one exception where the light verb "to feel" can act as a content verb taking the noun describing the feeling as its direct argument
  • otherwise verbs expressing feelings will be prototypically intransitive and won't be able to take an argument: i.e., "I love."
  • as a result, the default constructions for feelings don't have a slot for the person you feel them about; to get around it, two strategies are employed: 1. using the benefactive/malefactive applicatives; 2. using a topical construction
Examples of valid sentences:
I love-ACC feel-1s = "I love."
I to.love-PTCP-1s feel = "I love."
Woman-TOP I love-ACC feel-1s = "I love the woman."
I woman-ACC to.love-PTCP-C2 give-1s. = "I love a/the woman."

Please note that using the light verb "to give" in the last sentence constitutes the benefactive applicative construction.

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Parlox » 16 Jan 2018 01:22

Nothing interesting here, mainly showing the quirks of the Buzqgancqoz dialect of Lozkazmat.

Day 11
Lozkazmat doesn't mark tense, though it marks aspect. Past and present tenses are implied with the perfect and imperfect aspects. The future tense is implied with a copula(Which is always in the future tense) and a perfect/imperfect aspect.

Day 12
Some speakers of the Lozkazmat dialect Buzqgancqoz retain the genitive case bouz(Now meaning "with"), this comes from Quee influence.

Day 13
Speakers of the Lozkazmat dialect Buzqgancqoz have revived the old ergative case as a vocative marker. The vocative is also used as a form of "Hello", where most dialects of Lozkazmat use the phrase Am vazat jeurp! "I see you" to express greetings.

As kras!
VOC father
Hello father!

Day 14
(More related to the vocative case)

The Buzqgancqoz dialect of Lozkazmat retains the absolutive case as a negated vocative, used to form a rather vulgar way of saying hello, mainly used in the presence of one’s enemies. The negated vocative is also used as the normal vocative in an inferential statement.

An kras!
NEG.VOC father
Hello, father!

Day 15
The end of any action is formed with the terminative aspect, and the start of any action is formed with the inceptive aspect.
  • :con: Cajun, a descendant of French spoken in Louisiana.
  • :con: Bàsupan, loosely inspired by Amharic.
  • :con: Oddúhath Claire, a fusion of Welsh and Arabic.

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by gestaltist » 17 Jan 2018 10:11

Nakarian 16-17

1. There are three verbal participles divided by voice: active, middle, and passive.
2. The passive voice is valency-reducing (duh), and the agent can only be added via noun incorporation or further valency-altering operations. Otherwise, a passive sentence is treated like a normal intransitive, including the light verbs which are used.
3. The middle voice is used for situations where the agent and patient are not clear-cut. Prototypically, it's used for reflexives, reciprocals, cooperation, etc. It is likewise valency-reducing, and is used with the intransitive light verbs. It is also used for unaccusative verbs ("the tree fell") which usually get a causative meaning in the active voice (fall > make fall).
4. All participles can be used as noun complements.

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Iyionaku » 18 Jan 2018 13:22

Grammuary 18th

In many Southern Yélian dialects, the use of the standard plural starts to decline. Instead, the people from the Southernmost Yélian states (Narfe und Gralák) will generally use the suffix -locan [or iòha in this dialect) to mark the plural. This suffix means "many" in Standard Yélian, but appears to have lost this meaning in Narfenian and Gralakian.

[Generally I really should start to work at Yélian dialects! I've been postponing this for years although I find it generally very interesting]
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by gestaltist » 18 Jan 2018 14:45

Nakarian 18

As the middle voice is used for situations with an underspecified subject, it is also shown in grammar: the only argument of a middle voice verb is set in the Accusative. E.g., "girl-ACC MID-wash do-C2" = The girl bathes/washes herself.

This gives me a natural way to have a subjectless construct, and as such it shall be employed for impersonal verbs - e.g., weather terms such as "it rains".

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Reyzadren » 19 Jan 2018 01:13

gestaltist wrote:
17 Jan 2018 10:11
2. The passive voice is valency-reducing (duh), and the agent can only be added via noun incorporation or further valency-altering operations. Otherwise, a passive sentence is treated like a normal intransitive, including the light verbs which are used.
Unless your conlang is specified to have the nom-acc/erg-abs alignment, that statement isn't always a duh. The passive voice doesn't need to reduce valency, especially in trigger languages.

Hence, it is good that you stated that somewhere in your conlang notes, as it isn't a general universal (con-)linguistic fact.
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 19 Jan 2018 02:21

Fluffy8x wrote:
14 Jan 2018 01:58
Middle Rymakonian: Deontic recommendation ("should") is marked by <-₄> on the verb. (<₄> is a "halfway" version of the rod signal <4>.)
What's a rod signal?
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Khemehekis » 19 Jan 2018 08:06

January 14

A preposition such as "ad" (to), "ab" (from), "mer" (around), etc. may come before "iri":

Ad iri Cliff daitroken?
to where Cliff walk-PST
Where did Cliff walk?

Lit iri o ailiss?
near where one live-PRS
Where to live near?

January 15

When "where" as a question-relative is the object of a preposition, the preposition comes before "houmiri":

Is hauess ad houmiri Cliff daitroken.
1s know-PRS to QR-where Cliff walk-PST
I know where Cliff walked.

Is os wahazas spladik lit houmiri is lesas ailis.
1s NEG be_able_to-PRS decide near QR-where 1s should-PRS live
I can't decide where to live near.

January 16

The word for "all" as in "the only thing" is oulos. It does not take "azid":

Oulos is fuiren en feshmet na trahi.
all 1s want-PST PST sandwich of ham
All I wanted was a ham sandwich.

Asa is emiyain ad ar oulos is hauess.
already 1s tell-PST to 2s all 1s know-PRS
I already told you all I know.

January 17

"Enles" also translates "it" when one is talking about the month, season, year, decade, etc.:

Enles as tan tzopu tziyim!
time PRS one summer hot
It is one hot summer!

Enles en 9472.
time PST 9472
It was [the year] 9472.

January 18

When an action verb is repeated, it may be gapped. Simply introduce the gapping clause with shul (whereas, while), and use the connective id where the verb would be:

Lili anas havilu ski, shul Tiy id havilu blan.
Lili have-PRS ponytail blonde whereas Tiy done_to ponytail brown
Lili has a blonde ponytail, Tiy a brown ponytail.

Nisha sereren ad is domuyizh ad yeshpeltz na is, shul Andy id uweng wopapi.
Nisha bring-PST to 1s blender for birthday of 1s whereas Andy done_to swan inflatable
Nisha brought me a blender for my birthday, Andy an inflatable swan.

January 19

To gap a repeated linking verb, introduce the gapping clause with shul and use the connective shil (as) instead of id:

Demed as alpas, shul unzit shil meui.
err PRS human whereas forgive as divine
To err is human, to forgive divine.

Tzires adetamen selmas, shul khamitzi shil tzebrang.
cheese taste-PST mild whereas chili as strong
The cheese tasted mild, the chili strong.
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by gestaltist » 19 Jan 2018 10:40

Nakarian 19

I've decided there will be decidedly less marking on the participle and the light verb than I initially envisioned. Instead, auxiliaries will be added after the light verb to provide additional TAM information. Subject agreement will be added to the last verb in the chain.

So, a simple sentence will be something like: I her ACT-love-C2 feel-1s. ("I love her.)
A more complex one could go like: I her 1s-ACT-love-C2 feel FUT CAUS-1s. ("I will make her love me.")

Reyzadren wrote:
19 Jan 2018 01:13
gestaltist wrote:
17 Jan 2018 10:11
2. The passive voice is valency-reducing (duh), and the agent can only be added via noun incorporation or further valency-altering operations. Otherwise, a passive sentence is treated like a normal intransitive, including the light verbs which are used.
Unless your conlang is specified to have the nom-acc/erg-abs alignment, that statement isn't always a duh. The passive voice doesn't need to reduce valency, especially in trigger languages.

Hence, it is good that you stated that somewhere in your conlang notes, as it isn't a general universal (con-)linguistic fact.
Nakarian is Nom-Acc, hence the "duh". I somehow don't "feel" other alignments than N-A or E-A anyway. Maybe I need to step out of that comfort zone some day.

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Fluffy8x » 19 Jan 2018 20:56

Thrice Xandvii wrote:
19 Jan 2018 02:21
Fluffy8x wrote:
14 Jan 2018 01:58
Middle Rymakonian: Deontic recommendation ("should") is marked by <-₄> on the verb. (<₄> is a "halfway" version of the rod signal <4>.)
What's a rod signal?
RTFM
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 20 Jan 2018 00:09

Fluffy8x wrote:
19 Jan 2018 20:56
RTFM
...

I don't see how that link answers my question... unless you expect me to read all of the links on there to find out where the question might be answered.
Edit: Wooooah there buddy!

I just realized what your abbreviation there stands for, as I just clicked it by reflex before when I saw it was a link. Drop the attitude and stop being a jerk. I didn't say anything to warrant you calling me an idiot, or implying as such, or in any way demean your project. I asked a question and got an extremely rude response.
Last edited by Thrice Xandvii on 20 Jan 2018 00:50, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by alynnidalar » 20 Jan 2018 00:16

It's also a bit rude to act like others should just know everything about your language, when you don't even have a link to your grammar in your post. Do you even have a thread on your conlang? We're not going to learn anything about it if you don't tell us about it.

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Dormouse559 » 20 Jan 2018 00:46

Fluffy8x wrote:
19 Jan 2018 20:56
RTFM
Remember House Rule No. 1: Be Civil. That means no personal insults or profanity directed at other forum members. More broadly, don't be dismissive of people's questions, even if the answers might seem obvious to you. I'd say that goes especially if the question is about your conlang; it's so easy to get wrapped up in creating and forget not everyone knows the language as deeply as you do.

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