Grammuary 2018

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Fluffy8x
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Fluffy8x » 20 Jan 2018 02:06

Sorry about the rudeness. Didn't realise that you didn't know which document there to look at. It's out/7_1.pdf, in the first chapter.
Edit: P. S. I was a bit surprised that people took my comment offensively. I didn't intend for it to mean "I told you to read my grammars a million times and you still didn't read it" but "here's where you can read more about it".
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by sangi39 » 20 Jan 2018 02:39

Fluffy8x wrote:
20 Jan 2018 02:06
Sorry about the rudeness. Didn't realise that you didn't know which document there to look at. It's out/7_1.pdf, in the first chapter.
Edit: P. S. I was a bit surprised that people took my comment offensively. I didn't intend for it to mean "I told you to read my grammars a million times and you still didn't read it" but "here's where you can read more about it".
So rod signals, to use a rough equivalent, are similar to hand gestures used alongside spoken language?
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Fluffy8x » 20 Jan 2018 02:50

sangi39 wrote:
20 Jan 2018 02:39
So rod signals, to use a rough equivalent, are similar to hand gestures used alongside spoken language?
That's a good way to explain it.
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Thrice Xandvii » 20 Jan 2018 02:57

Fluffy8x wrote:
20 Jan 2018 02:06
Edit: P. S. I was a bit surprised that people took my comment offensively. I didn't intend for it to mean "I told you to read my grammars a million times and you still didn't read it" but "here's where you can read more about it".
Ummmm, "RTFM" means 'read the fucking manual,' how does that NOT seem rude to you?
Last edited by Thrice Xandvii on 20 Jan 2018 12:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by sangi39 » 20 Jan 2018 03:27

I'd suggest moving any further discussion over that post being "rude" off-thread and into PMs if anyone feels like it needs to be discussed further.

However, I will say that I can't see how "kind of like hand gestures" couldn't have been the response, as opposed to "here, read this and find the answer yourself.

Anyway, back to the topic of the thread! [:D]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
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So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Fluffy8x » 21 Jan 2018 05:14

an siina levian t'isorakateez

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Khemehekis » 22 Jan 2018 08:12

January 20

A passive clause is also used with a gerund and its object as the predicate (much as we would mark such a clause with "for" in English): (Any better way to explain this?)

Adaz ham yan omo kuless as ovu dyu posk na is.
what-that this party really need-PRS PRS play by band of 1s
What this party really needs is for my band to play.

January 21

As well as introducing an adjective, "ai" (to have) can also introduce an adverb, with "shil" (as) before the adverb:

Is ayas shil lei dzhisuan na is.
1s have-PRS as here ansible of 1s
I have my ansible here.

January 22

But "ai" with a prepositional phrase does not require "shil" (using "shil" is still considered grammatically correct, though):

Stamos ayen spash adul uweish mui zakwiz ab levatz na wan.
Stamos have-PST all_over floor glue and glitter from project of 3s

Stamos ayen shil spash adul uweish mui zakwiz ab levatz na wan.
Stamos have-PST as all_over floor glue and glitter from project of 3s
Stamos had glue and glitter from his project all over the floor.

January 23

PREVIOUSLY:

"Ai" can be used with an active verb as well. Simply use a conjugated "ai", then the active verb in its appropriate tense, then the subject:

Wan ayos raighios damarkis we kaushanga.
3s have-FUT play-FUT continuous ADV videogram
She'll have the videogram playing nonstop.

Jim ayen tzoyen ash stiv na wan klotzab.
Jim have-PST sit-PST on shoulder of 3s parrot
Jim had a parrot sitting on his shoulder.

NEW:

In such a construction, verbs with "ien" (would) are considered past tense:

Frida ien ai adnasuen argas hen.
Frida would have come_in-PST much money
Frida would have lots of money coming in.

Wir ien wahaz ai tzoyen e karg na posk robomis.
1p would be_able_to have sit-PST in box of band drummer
We could have the drummer sitting in the bandshell.

January 24

An existential construction in which the nominal would take an -ing verb in English places "mos" after the subject, then the conjugated action verb (and object or prepositional phrase if there are any), then the verb "a":

Argas meyez mos gheisteiven ham yan aen.
many person-PL while attend-PST that party exist-PST
There were lots of people coming to that party.

Khofembas mos baitzitas badku aas.
spider-PL while climb-PRS wall exist-PRS
There are spiders climbing the wall.

January 25

When "ai" is in the imperative, place the passive verb in the passive voice, with the same voice suffix (-iz) as "ai":

Ayet kanizet dyu ham donzaris wan non dartz id kobletar na is.
have-IMPRTV beat_up-IMPRTV by that squadder 3s for steal done_to fabber of 1s
Have him beaten up by that squadder for stealing my fabber.

January 26

When the main clause of a "mos" (while) clause has the helping verb "ien" (would), the verb after "mos" is in the past tense:

Is ien ailis dumath we, mos abamen pitza haliblatzi we.
1s would live alone ADV while eat-PST pizza all-day-y ADV
I would live alone, eating pizza all day.

January 27

A construction with "a" (to exist) is used as the equivalent of a generic "they have" or "we have":

Er uhules Yuesik, argas pomires oibugmas aas.
LOC school-PL American many rule-PL pointless exist-PRS
In American schools, they have lots of pointless rules.
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31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by gestaltist » 22 Jan 2018 12:35

Nakarian 20-22

I am struggling with the verbal system for Nakarian and have been experimenting, re-doing, etc. Nothing I could state here as I haven't made any final decisions. Likely, stuff I posted before will also change. Not sure if I'll be able to participate in this thread - I might need until the end of the month to figure this out.

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by gestaltist » 23 Jan 2018 09:24

Nakarian 23

Ok, I actually made an interesting decision I want to share. Nakarian will have the noun alignment system similar to that of Yimas. I.e., the syntactic pivot will always be in the nominative, and the other argument will be in the Accusative or Ergative depending on its role. Note that the main verb always agrees with the Nominative subject of the sentence.

A few glosses to illustrate:

1s-NOM bread-ACC eat-CNJ wife-ERG ACT-shout_at AUX-1s. = I ate the bread and my wife shouted at me.
bread-NOM wife-ERG prepare-CNJ 1s-ERG ACT-eat AUX-C7. = My wife prepared the bread and I ate it.

Devices like applicatives, causatives, etc., can be employed to keep the syntactic mirror as a core argument in complex sentences.

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by gestaltist » 24 Jan 2018 17:07

Nakarian 24

Nakarian will have a pronoun to refer to the demoted argument of a passive or the "other" referent of a reciprocal middle voice. Now I need somebody's help for ideas how I should gloss it. Examples with gloss DA (demoted argument):

3s-NOM PAS-kill-PST DA country-ACC ACT-flee "Whoever killed him, fled the country."

3p-NOM MID-fight-CONTEMP DA ACT-hurt-PST "While they were fighting, one of them was hurt."

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Khemehekis » 28 Jan 2018 03:27

January 28

A metaphor, under the section Color Words:

The spectrum of color is used as a metaphor for physical attractiveness: Gudum (red) is the equivalent of calling someone "a ten", rahatgudum (orange-red) is "a nine", rahat (orange) is "an eight", hilisrahat (yellow-orange) is "a seven", hilis (yellow) is "a six" or "a five", hiliskran (yellow-green) is "a four", kran (green) is "a three", kwatkwon (turquoise) is "a two", and wowum (blue) is "a one". Sometimes rahat-hilis (orange-yellow) is used for "six" and kranhilis (green-yellow) for "five" when communicating with people in whose languages a ten-point scale is used.

January 29

When you are giving multiple dimensions, the number for length is given first and the number for width second. The number for height or depth, if it is included as well, is given third:

Katel shtaen zansem akhatzes embens sem akhatzes.
board measure-PST ten-six akhatz-PL by six akhatz-PL
The board measured sixteen akhatz [in length] by six akhatz [in width].

Sheli na naskel na Pero shtaen bam akhatzes embens bam akhatzes embens zan akhatzes.
model of pyramid of Pero measure-PST two akhatz-PL by two akhatz-PL by ten akhatz-PL
Pero's model of a pyramid was two akhatz [in length] by two akhatz [in width] by ten akhatz [in height].

Buito na Viana shtaas hol shitzes embens zanbam shitzes embens bam shitzes.
swimming_pool of Viana measure-PRS four shitz-PL by ten-two shitz-PL by two shitz-PL
Viana's swimming pool is four shitz [in length] by twelve shitz [in width] by two shitz [in depth].

January 30

When a passive suffix is added onto a connective, the resulting word follows the same spelling rules as the passives of verbs. For instance, when "mokhass" (within) takes the suffix -iz, it drops one S:

Mosamas az ailis mokhasiz pure va*an en bolpok ehem hamargas oiras.
guideline-PL that live within-PSV always after_all PST unhelpful after all_these year-PL
The guidelines that were always lived within turned out to be unhelpful after all these years.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Khemehekis » 02 Feb 2018 08:59

January 31

To indicate that a nominal can refer to either something singular or something plural, place o es (or -s) after the singular form. "O es" is used regardless of the way the singular pluralizes -- no matter if it takes an -es plural, an -as plural, or an irregular plural:

Ar he az as hoimas, shemebet spyu ar mui yed o es ad ar as salishas.
2s as that PRS father relationship between 2s and son or PL to 2s PRS important
As a father, the relationship between you and your son(s) is important.

Doef Pi*oso Zhanel arditzen kahupha hasp hous houmans o kheskas shara o es ad ar.
Doef Sodium Zhanel write-PST book famous about QR-how one raise-PRS daughter or PL of 2s
Doef Sodium Zhanel wrote a famous book on how to raise your daughter(s).

Et goyart ad zhered o es mui zwaniz o es ad ar.
IMPRTV kind to brother or PL and sister or PL to 2s
Be kind to your brother(s) and sister(s).

If the noun has no singular, use the plural form and follow it with o et (-et being an excerptal suffix):

Yakh o be*esen er els, yau o regudeos anas udravishes ka*azos amasi ab homoses o et ad o.
if one grow_up-PST LOC there then one probably have-PRS view-PL political different from parents or EXCPT to one
If you grew up there, you probably have different political views from your parent(s).

Note that the following adjective comes after the "o es" or "o et" and not immediately after the base nominal:

Wrong: Tzehimez sherm o es os ad hesi tri khetz ad o pure.
language native or PL FUT for speak SUP easy for one always

Right: Tzehimez o es sherm os ad hesi tri khetz ad o pure.
language or PL native FUT for speak SUP easy for one always

Your native language(s) will always be the easiest for you to speak.

The pronominal equivalent of an "o es" construction is "wan o mem" (s/he/it or they):

Rehinet aswid o es mui kailoret wan o mem.
find-IMPRTV error or PL and correct-IMPRTV 3s or 3p
Find the error(s) and fix it/them.

And the pronominal equivalent of a "[plural] o et" construction is "mem o met" (they or one of them):

*agitet emihomoses o et shfehil ad ar mui azirethet mem o met.
contact-IMPRTV grandparents or EXCPT surviving to 2s and teach-IMPRTV 3p or 3e
Contact your surviving grandparent(s) and teach her/him/them.
Last edited by Khemehekis on 03 Feb 2018 03:29, edited 1 time in total.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Khemehekis » 02 Feb 2018 23:56

Let's see how much our grammars expanded during Grammuary.

As of December 31, 2017, my Kankonian grammar at http://khemehekis.angelfire.com/basic.htm ran to 133 pages and took up 42,965 words to write.

At the beginning of February, it runs to 144 pages and takes up 46,472 words to write.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Khemehekis » 07 Feb 2018 07:20

So no one else went all the way through Grammuary?
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 57,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by gestaltist » 07 Feb 2018 09:19

Khemehekis wrote:
07 Feb 2018 07:20
So no one else went all the way through Grammuary?
I did but I don't know the size of my grammar before it...

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Re: Grammuary 2018

Post by Iyionaku » 07 Feb 2018 10:42

Khemehekis wrote:
07 Feb 2018 07:20
So no one else went all the way through Grammuary?
I had a pretty rough January, my schedule was just overflooding and I had taken several overtime. That jeopardized my plans to go through with it.

On a side note, I just realized that when I registered at this board, I was a pupil who'd rather develop words for Yélian than studying for his A-Levels. Now I graduated university and have a job. Dang, time runs indeed.
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