Vadhāyan

A forum for all topics related to constructed languages
Post Reply
User avatar
Bernard
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 6
Joined: 06 Jun 2018 21:10

Vadhāyan

Post by Bernard » 07 Jun 2018 16:08

So, I've been working on this language on and off since 2015, but I really quickly got stuck on this issue I am about to present.

I have more or less come up with an idea of word stem or root formation in Proto-Vadhāyan, but I've got hard time getting details right.

So, essentially, the most basic root structure is CW(C) where C is a consonant and W is a sound from the set of /w j ħ ʔ ʕ h/. A root of this type bears some basic semantic meaning e.g. m-j-n is the source of various words related to heart. This root is modified by inserting vowel /a/ in different places among the root consonants, so it might be said that it functions like the Semitic triliteral root. However, I don't intend to stick to this Semitic kind of a root. I would like it to constitute a limited resource of pretty archaic word formation that would appear for later generations of Vadhāyan speakers more like an ablaut. Eventually, there would exist some good number of roots build through this archaic a-insertion into the triliteral stems and they would undergo further modification through adding of morphemes at a later stage, more like in the IE languages. I think the most difficult question for me is how to tackle the problem of the productivity of this archaic model. An example:

There is this root m.j.n, which produced three stems represented in these words:
myanȧ (heart); derivatives: myadli (cardiac), myanāvi (cordial)
amnida (to ponder); derivatives: amniddhyāvi (worth pondering)
mena (to be mad) derivatives: menī (madness)

But there could be formed theoretically a stem mēn- as well (as it is for the root. r.j.k (holy) in ryak-, ark-, rek- and rēk-). Is it likely for it to be created at this later stage of the language when suffixes and prefixes generally took over the word formation?

Also some of these root alternations are used to form verbal aspects of basic verbs, e.g. from ṣ.ȝ.ḍ (to sit) there is verb ṣaḍa (to sit; gnomic/imperfective) derived with ṣāḍi (perfective) and aẓḍi (inchoative) as grammatical forms. Could these different aspect forms constitute sources for word families on their own? With ṣāḍi producing e.g. aṣāḍa (seat, chair) and aẓḍi being a source of e.g. aẓḍida (to take land in possession). On the one hand it seems reasonable, but on the other it might end up to confusing to sound realistically. What do you think?

User avatar
Creyeditor
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4493
Joined: 14 Aug 2012 18:32

Re: Vadhāyan

Post by Creyeditor » 07 Jun 2018 17:21

I like the general feel. Is it Sanskrit inspired?
Aspects becoming different roots happened from PIE to its daughters, didn't it?
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 :deu: 2 :eng: 3 :idn: 4 :fra: 4 :esp:
:con: Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
[<3] Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics [<3]

User avatar
Bernard
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 6
Joined: 06 Jun 2018 21:10

Re: Vadhāyan

Post by Bernard » 08 Jun 2018 09:03

Yes, Sanskrit was the original inspiration for this language, although I'm working on distancing it from it in various ways. For instance, Vadhāyan has a good load of agglutination as for its case system:
Image
The forms of the nouns in the table above are given in collective. Singulative is formed through adding -a, which in the case of nouns ending on -ȧ replaces this final vowel: ȝūra, khārya, ṣora. Plurative is analogically formed by adding -ō: ȝūrō, khāryō, ṣorō (however for plurative accusative it takes form of ȝūravi, not **ȝūrōy etc.). There is also dual with -ta enging restricted to things that come in pairs, e.g. maȝȧ 'hand' > maȝta 'a pair of hands'.

As for the aspects in the IE family - could you provide any examples? I'm very interested in investigating how this worked out.

User avatar
Frislander
runic
runic
Posts: 3116
Joined: 14 May 2016 17:47
Location: The North

Re: Vadhāyan

Post by Frislander » 08 Jun 2018 09:28

Nice! So what's your consonant inventory currently?

User avatar
Bernard
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 6
Joined: 06 Jun 2018 21:10

Re: Vadhāyan

Post by Bernard » 08 Jun 2018 09:49

As for the consosnants I think I will stick to this inventory (although I'm still quite hesitant as for the exact pronunciation of the fricatives):
/m n ɳ/ <m n ṇ>
/mb b p v f/ <mb b p bh ph>
/nd d t ð θ/ <nd d t dh th>
/ɳɖ ɖ ʈ ʐ ʂ/ <ṇḍ ḍ ṭ ḍh ṭh>
/ŋg g k ɣ ħ/ <ng g k gh kh>
/z s ʂ/ <z s ṣ>
/ʕ ħ h q/ <ȝ ḥ h q>
/ɾ ɽ l w j/ <r ṛ l w y>

User avatar
Creyeditor
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4493
Joined: 14 Aug 2012 18:32

Re: Vadhāyan

Post by Creyeditor » 08 Jun 2018 15:16

Adding prenasalization really adds to the uniqueness of the language. Can they appear word intitially?
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 :deu: 2 :eng: 3 :idn: 4 :fra: 4 :esp:
:con: Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
[<3] Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics [<3]

User avatar
eldin raigmore
fire
fire
Posts: 6234
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 18:38
Location: SouthEast Michigan

Re: Vadhāyan

Post by eldin raigmore » 08 Jun 2018 16:36

Creyeditor wrote:
08 Jun 2018 15:16
Adding prenasalization really adds to the uniqueness of the language. Can they appear word intitially?
As I recall that’s where they’re most obviously a prenasalized stop phoneme instead of a nasal phoneme followed by a stop phoneme.
They abound in a certain set of African languages.
The word romanized as “mbubwe” meaning “lion” is one example. (Which language?)
The word romanized as “mbwa” meaning “dog” is another. (Which language?)

—————

(But maybe I should have let Bernard answer for themself.)

User avatar
Bernard
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 6
Joined: 06 Jun 2018 21:10

Re: Vadhāyan

Post by Bernard » 08 Jun 2018 19:34

eldin raigmore wrote:
08 Jun 2018 16:36
Creyeditor wrote:
08 Jun 2018 15:16
Adding prenasalization really adds to the uniqueness of the language. Can they appear word intitially?
As I recall that’s where they’re most obviously a prenasalized stop phoneme instead of a nasal phoneme followed by a stop phoneme.
That's exactly right. These prenasalised stops can be found only word initially and they turn into regular nasal + stop when used inside a word, e.g.:
mbaṣāḍȧ 'council' [ᵐbaˈʂaːɖə]
vayṣyambaṣāḍȧ 'university' [ˌvaɪ.ʂʲa.mba.ˈʂaː.də] (vayṣyȧ 'prusuit, study, research')

User avatar
Creyeditor
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4493
Joined: 14 Aug 2012 18:32

Re: Vadhāyan

Post by Creyeditor » 08 Jun 2018 20:24

Sorry for this very specific question. I would be interested in your stress system, what is it like?
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 :deu: 2 :eng: 3 :idn: 4 :fra: 4 :esp:
:con: Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
[<3] Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics [<3]

User avatar
eldin raigmore
fire
fire
Posts: 6234
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 18:38
Location: SouthEast Michigan

Re: Vadhāyan

Post by eldin raigmore » 08 Jun 2018 22:15

Creyeditor wrote:
08 Jun 2018 20:24
I would be interested in your stress system, what is it like?
[+1]

User avatar
Bernard
rupestrian
rupestrian
Posts: 6
Joined: 06 Jun 2018 21:10

Re: Vadhāyan

Post by Bernard » 10 Jun 2018 17:00

eldin raigmore wrote:
08 Jun 2018 22:15
Creyeditor wrote:
08 Jun 2018 20:24
I would be interested in your stress system, what is it like?
[+1]
That's going to be disappointing. I haven't thought about it much, except that I followed the penultimate syllable stress by default with occasional first syllable stress when certain prefixes are added. However, once the stress is in place, it doesn't move e.g. by influence of a case ending. And so ṭeghrīdȧ 'dignity' is stressed on the penultimate syllable and the stress remains on this syllable even in ṭeghrīdȧṣṇaḥa 'in regards of his dignity'.

Post Reply