CBB Conlang Relay X

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Lao Kou
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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X

Post by Lao Kou » 02 Dec 2018 14:15

gestaltist wrote:
02 Dec 2018 13:00
We clearly have a different idea of what a good torch is.
If I understand gestaltist correctly, I'm inclined to agree.
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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X

Post by shimobaatar » 02 Dec 2018 14:36

Does it matter? I think the results are pretty interesting, and one of the most notable instances of weirdness came from me translating an Atruozan idiom literally. I didn't mind that it wasn't mentioned in the torch I received, especially because DzêtaRedfang was incredibly thorough about everything else. I included notes about the idioms I used in my torch, but that's just a personal preference.

Actually, I'm getting the impression that some people might be interested in this kind of relay as a way to see how accurately everyone can translate the text, with the goal of keeping it as close to the original as possible by the end, while I've always considered the point of such relays to be that everyone who participated will get to chuckle at seeing how many things changed and got lost in translation by the end.

I could be totally off on this, but if I'm not, maybe for future relays, we could have one ring that's "just for fun", so to speak, and another where the goal is to preserve the meaning of the original text to the best of everyone's ability?

Znex wrote:
02 Dec 2018 12:11
To be fair, they're really easy mistakes to make if you're just going quickly off my notes. The Hawntow involved some amount of reference switching, unmarked local adverbs (à la Chinese time adverbs), affect marking (which really just mark the speaker's opinion, eg. "This was a really wholesome thing that happened", vs. "This was really bizarre, let me tell you"), and then there was the "subjunctive" prefix which functioned more as an irrealis-equative marker here rather than the prototypical subjunctive.

Plus it didn't help that when it came to my translation, the identity of the first character had completely disappeared, and with the premise of there being a cafe. I translated rather conservatively there.
Yeah, the affect definitely gave me some trouble. I didn't feel right ignoring it, but I wasn't really sure how to translate it, so I just ended up translating the negative affect as negation and the quizzical one as interrogative.

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CBB Conlang Relay X

Post by Lao Kou » 02 Dec 2018 15:22

shimobaatar wrote:
02 Dec 2018 14:36
Actually, I'm getting the impression that some people might be interested in this kind of relay as a way to see how accurately everyone can translate the text, with the goal of keeping it as close to the original as possible by the end, while I've always considered the point of such relays to be that everyone who participated will get to chuckle at seeing how many things changed and got lost in translation by the end.
I've always thought of these as complementary purposes. The chuckly "fun" of Chinese Whispers/Telephone (of which this is a ramped-up version), even among speakers of the same language, is to see how mangled, lost in translation, the message becomes from beginning to end, even with everyone playing it straight. Deliberately throwing in spanners seems, to me, more obvious and less chuckle worthy.
shimobaatar wrote:
02 Dec 2018 14:36
Does it matter?
Probably not so much.
shimobaatar wrote:
02 Dec 2018 14:36
I could be totally off on this, but if I'm not, maybe for future relays, we could have one ring that's "just for fun", so to speak, and another where the goal is to preserve the meaning of the original text to the best of everyone's ability?
Well, one could give it a try.
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DesEsseintes
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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X

Post by DesEsseintes » 02 Dec 2018 16:09

Lao Kou wrote:
02 Dec 2018 15:22
Deliberately throwing in spanners seems, to me, more obvious and less chuckle worthy.
This.

Following it up with bragging statements about “earning the right” to such spanners takes the fun down yet another level in my opinion, in addition to just being rather poor sportsmanship.

Having said that, and unrelated to this (non-)issue, I’d be interested to see this 15-page torch. In fact, I’d be interested to see all the torches. Will they be made available?

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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X

Post by DzêtaRedfang » 02 Dec 2018 16:43

DesEsseintes wrote:
02 Dec 2018 16:09
Having said that, and unrelated to this (non-)issue, I’d be interested to see this 15-page torch. In fact, I’d be interested to see all the torches. Will they be made available?
I can send it to you. Do you want the version with or without the gloss and english translation?

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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X

Post by DesEsseintes » 02 Dec 2018 16:52

DzêtaRedfang wrote:
02 Dec 2018 16:43
DesEsseintes wrote:
02 Dec 2018 16:09
Having said that, and unrelated to this (non-)issue, I’d be interested to see this 15-page torch. In fact, I’d be interested to see all the torches. Will they be made available?
I can send it to you. Do you want the version with or without the gloss and english translation?
Ooh I guess without might be fun.

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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X

Post by Iyionaku » 03 Dec 2018 14:43

DzêtaRedfang wrote:
01 Dec 2018 21:47
gestaltist wrote:
01 Dec 2018 11:18
DzêtaRedfang wrote:
01 Dec 2018 02:03
For those wondering where the heck the fire and ice came into play in ring one, as well as those who aren't but to whom i will tell this anyways, I am the culprit behind it. In Atruozan, "Nonetheless" is "of ƀeoköltmoþo nölcërlëlđdø̃møþe" in Atruozan, an idiom glossing as "SEM fire(AN)-ESS.ANZ-ADJZ(IN)-ADVZ freeze-NMZ(IN)-ESS.INZ-CNS.INZ-ADJZ(IN)-ADVZ", where "freeze-NMZ" is really "ice-NMZ.Creation/destruction_class", which translates literally to "in a manner like/similar to fire's freezing/the freezing of fire". It ended up translated literally and then somehow became the fiery path that is ice which is great.
Did you provide the idiomatic meaning of that phrase to shimo? If you didn’t, it really is on you...
NOPE [:P]. For what it's worth though, I had to get some form of fun change in there, and the Atruozan idioms are a great way to do that. Also, listen. The torch I sent was 15 pages long, okay? 15 pages of word document in Times New Roman font size 12, which is pretty much the minimum required in order to let the next guy be able to properly decipher most of what is going on. I think at that point I have the right to not give what every single idiom means.
I have to agree with the other guys in this topic, sorry. Idioms are cool to have and I absolutely endorse using them in relays. But, imagine being in shimobaatar's position, that is, being 6th in the relay. At this point, without further notice, is it not possible whatsoever for him to find out if this is an idiom or just a weird twist caused by the relay's progress. Boldly assuming a specific meaning is way more likely to cause a lot of destruction than just taking it over literally.

For this specific case though, it indeed provided some fun to the relay so everything is fine. I actually would propose to call this relay "The relay of Fire and Ice".
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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X

Post by Frislander » 03 Dec 2018 18:34

Dormouse559 wrote:
30 Nov 2018 19:58
Ring 2 is a paragon of concision. It has about the same number of sentences as the original (maybe even the same number; the original's punctuation gets dodgy toward the end), but has fewer than half the words. Cut the fat! Kill your darlings!
Yeah that was pretty much my fault. I struggled a bit to get a cohesive narrative out of your text (I think I was probably rushing the translation a bit), so I attempted to bring together the apparent fragments in the English translation into some kind of cohesive whole. Then I had the job of translating the thing into Asta, which was a pain, because there were several things in the text which don't correspond well to anything in Asta culture, notably the restaurant (i suppose this is partly my fault for preferring to make technologically simple hunter-gatherers/small-scale agriculturalists isn't it?). I also went for an intentionally eliptical style, which perhaps was a mistake.

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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X

Post by DzêtaRedfang » 04 Dec 2018 18:09

Iyionaku wrote:
03 Dec 2018 14:43
I have to agree with the other guys in this topic, sorry. Idioms are cool to have and I absolutely endorse using them in relays. But, imagine being in shimobaatar's position, that is, being 6th in the relay. At this point, without further notice, is it not possible whatsoever for him to find out if this is an idiom or just a weird twist caused by the relay's progress. Boldly assuming a specific meaning is way more likely to cause a lot of destruction than just taking it over literally.

For this specific case though, it indeed provided some fun to the relay so everything is fine. I actually would propose to call this relay "The relay of Fire and Ice".
ngl I really just don't wanna admit that I completely forgot to put explanations for the weird/not easily understandable idioms because I finished it at 3h30 after getting almost no sleep the previous night, partly because I nearly fell asleep while walking in the hallway the following day due to me being so tired which wasn't fun and I should really stop beating up my body

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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X

Post by Dormouse559 » 04 Dec 2018 18:50

Frislander wrote:
03 Dec 2018 18:34
Yeah that was pretty much my fault. I struggled a bit to get a cohesive narrative out of your text
That makes two of us. [:P] I didn't try to create a cohesive narrative in my translation because I couldn't puzzle one out from my source text. That seems to have been by design, though, because the original is largely descriptive, not narrative.

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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X

Post by J Reggie » 04 Dec 2018 19:34

I think some people were talking about the second mention of the restaurant in ring 1. That started with me, and that was one of the things that I thought for a while about. You can't really just say someone turned away in Mýr; they have to turn away from something (because of the fact that prepositions are actually verbs). At the time, I interpreted it as turning away from the restaurant, but now it seems to me more like it was supposed to be turning away from his problems.

I think this is one of the most fun scenarios in a relay like this, where you're presented with grammatical ambiguity and you have to make a decision because that ambiguity doesn't exist in your language. On the flip side, there are times where you have to introduce ambiguity that wasn't in the text, such as the switch over to first person. (Narratives in Mýr are always in first person regardless of who is actually speaking.)

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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X

Post by kiwikami » 05 Dec 2018 12:51

J Reggie wrote:
04 Dec 2018 19:34
I think this is one of the most fun scenarios in a relay like this, where you're presented with grammatical ambiguity and you have to make a decision because that ambiguity doesn't exist in your language.
[+1] Most definitely agreed!
Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.

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