Iramite of the Pillars - Progeny of a Lost Semitic

A forum for all topics related to constructed languages
shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 11653
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: Phonology and Topic List

Post by shimobaatar » 03 Jan 2019 00:43

Thank you for your responses! Sorry it's taken me so long to comment again.
Isfendil wrote:
03 Nov 2018 21:11
As for the language's prosody, there is something, but my ability to communicate what it is is limited by my vocab. I haven't studied prosody thoroughly, you see. All the same, what I've noticed is that there is a bias in the footing towards the center left of the word, so heavier syllables will try to concentrate themselves there. I apologize if that isn't clear, it really is the best I can explain. Perhaps once you see the larger words or the more aggressively inflected nouns it will become clearer.
No worries at all! I must admit I'm not very good with prosody either.
Isfendil wrote:
03 Nov 2018 21:11
I essentially have two conflicting and equally beloved aesthetics for this language- the tolkienesque, which uses circumflexes, dioreses, and the schwa, and the classical, which uses macrons, /y/ for [ɨ], and jod. This is because I use this language in two different settings, one which is not in this world, and in the fantastical history. In the latter, it is contemporaneous with and has the same role as classical languages, so I employ the classical romanization style here, because that setting is the one I am focusing on for this thread's purpose, and will be less alien to readers.
Totally understandable! Thanks for the clarification.
Isfendil wrote:
03 Nov 2018 21:11
On a slightly related note, I've learned this year that textbooks are notoriously difficult to proofread. I think this probably extends to forum posts, so I'd appreciate further attempts at pointing out errors. If it turns out it is not an error it could turn into a fun explanation anyway.
I'll do my best. You're absolutely right about that last part!
Isfendil wrote:
03 Nov 2018 21:11
For one, they actually have a large presence in the Upper World, in the MENA region, and were a great impact on its cultural development.
So, to clarify, they had a great deal of cultural impact on the Upper World in the past, but they don't really anymore, despite continuing to have a large presence there?
Isfendil wrote:
03 Nov 2018 21:11
Finally, they are nearly physically infallible, but extremely psychosomatic - they do not weaken with age, they're extremely resistant to physical illness, but their feelings can and will kill them - mental illnesses such as depression needn't move a djinni to suicide but simply cause the poor wretch to waste away and die on their own. That's the short explanation.
Wow! This is all fascinating stuff, but this stuck out to me in particular!
Isfendil wrote:
03 Nov 2018 21:11
by the modern day, the mirages are known to exist, but access to them is still unreliable, and knowledge of them is a bit scarce.
To clarify, modern "mainstream" academics, scientists, etc. acknowledge their existence?
Isfendil wrote:
04 Nov 2018 04:55
Essentially, it is meant to relate the deponent of a phrase to its head in a way that is not.
I think there might be a word missing here?
Isfendil wrote:
04 Nov 2018 04:55
It has a meaning essentially corresponding equally to relative, adjectival, and some kind of qualitative genitive. The actual oblique case, which contains the genitive, is for syntax and possessives. The QRPS can also be used as a sort of abstract noun suffix.

I will try to illustrate this with some examples.
Isfendil wrote:
04 Nov 2018 04:55
If this was even half as confusing for you all to read as it was for me to write I apologize and implore that you ask questions and point out better ways to organize things.
I think you've explained it quite well. The only line that was confusing for me was:
Isfendil wrote:
04 Nov 2018 04:55
The nom and obl singular forms are also how the combined auffix appears on nouns which end in one consonant.
Despite the examples given, it's just not clear to me what it's referring to, for some reason.
Isfendil wrote:
04 Nov 2018 04:55
As of now though, the book is open again! What shall be our next topic?

Pronominal Morphology
Noun Patterns (Not including patterns related directly to verbal patterns)
Basic Verb, full inflections (Ground Stem)
Or something you might suggest? I am open to anything.
Well, I'd be interested in reading about all of those things, eventually. I would personally finish covering nouns and pronouns as much as possible before moving on, but since protondonor has already suggested covering verbs next, I'll second that request.

User avatar
Isfendil
greek
greek
Posts: 708
Joined: 19 Feb 2016 03:47

Re: Phonology and Topic List

Post by Isfendil » 04 Jan 2019 23:28

shimobaatar wrote:
03 Jan 2019 00:43

So, to clarify, they had a great deal of cultural impact on the Upper World in the past, but they don't really anymore, despite continuing to have a large presence there?
Oh the djinn continue to impact the upper world, arguably more after globalization, in much the same way any large class of people would.
shimobaatar wrote:
03 Jan 2019 00:43
To clarify, modern "mainstream" academics, scientists, etc. acknowledge their existence?
Yup. Magic and magic-adjacent academia are very much an "accepted" feature of both worlds, so it's not preposterous, and there is plenty of proof of the mirages' existence from that point of view.

shimobaatar wrote:
03 Jan 2019 00:43
Isfendil wrote:
04 Nov 2018 04:55
Essentially, it is meant to relate the deponent of a phrase to its head in a way that is not.
I think there might be a word missing here?
Unfortnately the exact missing word escapes me, but essentially it's an abstract genitive relationship.
shimobaatar wrote:
03 Jan 2019 00:43
Isfendil wrote:
04 Nov 2018 04:55
The nom and obl singular forms are also how the combined auffix appears on nouns which end in one consonant.
Despite the examples given, it's just not clear to me what it's referring to, for some reason. [/quote]
Right so one of the words was semrys, I mean the -rys component, how the "r" and "s" suffixes combine together and form an "rVs" suffix.
shimobaatar wrote:
03 Jan 2019 00:43
Isfendil wrote:
04 Nov 2018 04:55
As of now though, the book is open again! What shall be our next topic?

Pronominal Morphology
Noun Patterns (Not including patterns related directly to verbal patterns)
Basic Verb, full inflections (Ground Stem)
Or something you might suggest? I am open to anything.
Well, I'd be interested in reading about all of those things, eventually. I would personally finish covering nouns and pronouns as much as possible before moving on, but since protondonor has already suggested covering verbs next, I'll second that request.
As for the next entry, I'll try to begin work on it soon, I appreciate that people have continued interest in the language especially since I can't really stop working on it. I just have some . . . issues with the verbal system, specifically the participle formations, and want to be sure of something before I post anything new.

User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 3086
Joined: 29 Apr 2013 04:06

Re: Iramite of the Pillars - Progeny of a Lost Semitic

Post by Shemtov » 08 Jan 2019 04:56

Isfendil wrote:
12 Oct 2018 20:02
Syrgastuata is spoken inside one such pocket dimension, which stretches from the shadows of the Arabian Peninsula to the Western Sahara and is named in the upper world ("our" world, so to speak) after the most famous city therein, Iram of the Pillars.

People have been bleeding into these realms through accidental paths for the thousands of years since they've come to exist, and the ancient semites are no exception: How a unique group managed to get to the region around the city of Iram, which shadows the Rubᶜ al-Xāli in the Upper World, is unknown, but why they are there is not - the location is the largest oasis known to human beings, the perfect place for such wanderers to put a large settlement, and put it there they did.

Was this interpretation of the Qu'ranic Iram inspired by the Lovecraftian one of Irem?
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

User avatar
Isfendil
greek
greek
Posts: 708
Joined: 19 Feb 2016 03:47

Re: Iramite of the Pillars - Progeny of a Lost Semitic

Post by Isfendil » 08 Jan 2019 06:44

Shemtov wrote:
08 Jan 2019 04:56
Isfendil wrote:
12 Oct 2018 20:02
Syrgastuata is spoken inside one such pocket dimension, which stretches from the shadows of the Arabian Peninsula to the Western Sahara and is named in the upper world ("our" world, so to speak) after the most famous city therein, Iram of the Pillars.

People have been bleeding into these realms through accidental paths for the thousands of years since they've come to exist, and the ancient semites are no exception: How a unique group managed to get to the region around the city of Iram, which shadows the Rubᶜ al-Xāli in the Upper World, is unknown, but why they are there is not - the location is the largest oasis known to human beings, the perfect place for such wanderers to put a large settlement, and put it there they did.

Was this interpretation of the Qu'ranic Iram inspired by the Lovecraftian one of Irem?
Oh much more Qur’anic than lovecraft. The more ... sinister mirage cities are in the Sahara, peopled by Carthaginese.

User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 3086
Joined: 29 Apr 2013 04:06

Re: Iramite of the Pillars - Progeny of a Lost Semitic

Post by Shemtov » 08 Jan 2019 07:11

Isfendil wrote:
08 Jan 2019 06:44
Shemtov wrote:
08 Jan 2019 04:56
Isfendil wrote:
12 Oct 2018 20:02
Syrgastuata is spoken inside one such pocket dimension, which stretches from the shadows of the Arabian Peninsula to the Western Sahara and is named in the upper world ("our" world, so to speak) after the most famous city therein, Iram of the Pillars.

People have been bleeding into these realms through accidental paths for the thousands of years since they've come to exist, and the ancient semites are no exception: How a unique group managed to get to the region around the city of Iram, which shadows the Rubᶜ al-Xāli in the Upper World, is unknown, but why they are there is not - the location is the largest oasis known to human beings, the perfect place for such wanderers to put a large settlement, and put it there they did.

Was this interpretation of the Qu'ranic Iram inspired by the Lovecraftian one of Irem?
Oh much more Qur’anic than lovecraft. The more ... sinister mirage cities are in the Sahara, peopled by Carthaginese.
Actually, before I researched it, I thought Irem was a Lovecraftian invention, and your language inspired me to introduce elements of the Cthulhu Mythos into the World of Fuhe (though the actual position of the Elder Things are very different, and Nyarlathotep may be the only "real" one), with some purposeful digs at Lovecraft's racism (the worshipers of Cthulhu actually have similar views on race) and create a language around it.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

User avatar
Isfendil
greek
greek
Posts: 708
Joined: 19 Feb 2016 03:47

Re: Iramite of the Pillars - Progeny of a Lost Semitic

Post by Isfendil » 08 Jan 2019 08:07

Shemtov wrote:
08 Jan 2019 07:11
Isfendil wrote:
08 Jan 2019 06:44
Shemtov wrote:
08 Jan 2019 04:56
Isfendil wrote:
12 Oct 2018 20:02
Syrgastuata is spoken inside one such pocket dimension, which stretches from the shadows of the Arabian Peninsula to the Western Sahara and is named in the upper world ("our" world, so to speak) after the most famous city therein, Iram of the Pillars.

People have been bleeding into these realms through accidental paths for the thousands of years since they've come to exist, and the ancient semites are no exception: How a unique group managed to get to the region around the city of Iram, which shadows the Rubᶜ al-Xāli in the Upper World, is unknown, but why they are there is not - the location is the largest oasis known to human beings, the perfect place for such wanderers to put a large settlement, and put it there they did.

Was this interpretation of the Qu'ranic Iram inspired by the Lovecraftian one of Irem?
Oh much more Qur’anic than lovecraft. The more ... sinister mirage cities are in the Sahara, peopled by Carthaginese.
Actually, before I researched it, I thought Irem was a Lovecraftian invention, and your language inspired me to introduce elements of the Cthulhu Mythos into the World of Fuhe (though the actual position of the Elder Things are very different, and Nyarlathotep may be the only "real" one), with some purposeful digs at Lovecraft's racism (the worshipers of Cthulhu actually have similar views on race) and create a language around it.
This is actually very heartening to hear, though did the names of the Elder Things not change for Fuhe? Or were you just using more recognizable referrants?

User avatar
Shemtov
runic
runic
Posts: 3086
Joined: 29 Apr 2013 04:06

Re: Iramite of the Pillars - Progeny of a Lost Semitic

Post by Shemtov » 08 Jan 2019 08:25

Isfendil wrote:
08 Jan 2019 08:07
Shemtov wrote:
08 Jan 2019 07:11
Isfendil wrote:
08 Jan 2019 06:44
Shemtov wrote:
08 Jan 2019 04:56
Isfendil wrote:
12 Oct 2018 20:02
Syrgastuata is spoken inside one such pocket dimension, which stretches from the shadows of the Arabian Peninsula to the Western Sahara and is named in the upper world ("our" world, so to speak) after the most famous city therein, Iram of the Pillars.

People have been bleeding into these realms through accidental paths for the thousands of years since they've come to exist, and the ancient semites are no exception: How a unique group managed to get to the region around the city of Iram, which shadows the Rubᶜ al-Xāli in the Upper World, is unknown, but why they are there is not - the location is the largest oasis known to human beings, the perfect place for such wanderers to put a large settlement, and put it there they did.

Was this interpretation of the Qu'ranic Iram inspired by the Lovecraftian one of Irem?
Oh much more Qur’anic than lovecraft. The more ... sinister mirage cities are in the Sahara, peopled by Carthaginese.
Actually, before I researched it, I thought Irem was a Lovecraftian invention, and your language inspired me to introduce elements of the Cthulhu Mythos into the World of Fuhe (though the actual position of the Elder Things are very different, and Nyarlathotep may be the only "real" one), with some purposeful digs at Lovecraft's racism (the worshipers of Cthulhu actually have similar views on race) and create a language around it.
This is actually very heartening to hear, though did the names of the Elder Things not change for Fuhe? Or were you just using more recognizable referrants?
They did change, and in the relevant thread, I gloss Kquxu /k͡ʟ̞uɬu/ as "Cthuhlu". That pronunciation is based on a an analysis of a letter by Lovecraft, where he describes the "closest pronounciation" that a human can make, which seems to be [k͡ʟ̞uɬu]. Nyarlathotep is Nyung ralat Khotep /ɲuŋ ralat xotep/, though Yog-Sothoth keeps the name, but with the pronounciation /jogsoθoθ/.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

Post Reply