Īsmay - verbal system continued

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gestaltist
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Īsmay - verbal system continued

Post by gestaltist » 03 Jan 2019 23:19

Over the holiday season, a Christmas miracle occurred. An idea for a conlang came to me on December 15, and resulted in an explosion of creativity. After two weeks, I have a conlang on my hands I'm really excited about and want to share with you. Welcome to Īsmay.

Starting with phonology bores me, so let's talk about some basic features of the language instead.
Spoiler:
What you need to know about the romanization for now:
  • most characters correspond to their IPA values
  • a macron marks a long vowel
  • bh dh gh are murmured voiced stops when in onset position, and closer to [β̞ ð̞ ɣ̞] when in coda position
Īsmay is what's usually called a triconsonantal language, although in reality, it has a robust base of biliteral roots, as well. What makes it different than typical Semitic roots is that the agreement marker is placed after the second radical, and conjugation is applied to this extended consonantal root. Consider the following example of some forms using the root l-l-m ("to sleep")

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AGREEMENT INFIX:		3sm -∅-		1sf -k-		2p -ydh-
EXTENDED ROOT:			L-L-M		L-L-k-M		L-L-ydh-M

AORIST GNOMIC:			lalam		lalakma		lalaidham	(he/I/y'all slept)
NON-PAST IRREALIS:		īllimu		īllikum		īllīdhum	(he/I/y'all would sleep)
Īsmay is also split-ergative: morphologically, it is nominative-accusative, with the agreement marker (featured in the examples above) agreeing with the subject of an intransitive verb and with the agent of a transitive one. Syntactically, it is absolutive-ergative, with the patient of a transitive sentence in initial position, and the agent following the verb. (Oblique arguments come last.) This gives us the following sentence structure (with agreement markers in angle brackets):

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INTRANSITIVE VERB PHRASE: 	Subject	Verb<Subject>		Oblique_Arguments
TRANSITIVE VERB PHRASE: 	Patient	Verb<Agent>	Agent	Oblique_Arguments

This is about as much as I have patience to write today. Let me know if you'd like to learn more.
Last edited by gestaltist on 28 Jan 2019 09:02, edited 1 time in total.

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DesEsseintes
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Re: Īsmay - a Christmas miracle of a language

Post by DesEsseintes » 04 Jan 2019 05:27

I want to see more, especially explanations of the formation of the basic awzaan/binyanim, and how they interact with the person markers.

Otherwise, there’s not enough meat here to form an opinion.

Oh, and lalaidhum is very cute. [<3]

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Re: Īsmay - a Christmas miracle of a language

Post by elemtilas » 04 Jan 2019 14:38

I'm happy to see you excited about a new language!!

Please continue exploring and revealing for us!
Image

If we stuff the whole chicken back into the egg, will all our problems go away? --- Wandalf of Angera

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Re: Īsmay - a Christmas miracle of a language

Post by gestaltist » 05 Jan 2019 14:17

Ok, let's put some more meat on those bones, as DesEsseintes put it.
Spoiler:
Before I do though, a (not so) short note: I decided to present this language in short posts on purpose. As a person with limited free time, I have noticed I often stop following conlang threads where every post is a wall of text, even if I'm super interested. So I figured I'd write this thread the way I'd like other threads to be written. If that makes it less interesting to some of you due to less info presented at once, so be it. I have pretty organized notes so I don't actually need this thread for documentation. It's purely for presentation, so let me know what you'd like to know about.
A FEW WORDS ABOUT NOUNS

Before I can satisfy DesEsseintes' request I feel like a short primer on nouns is needed - if nothing else, to better understand how verbs agree with them. Like verbs, nouns tend to be derived from biliteral or triliteral roots. Unlike verbs, their derivation patterns are much more haphazard and varied. Also unlike verbs, some monolateral nouns do exist.

A perhaps interesting feature of Ismaic nouns is that each noun has two basic stems: an individuating and a completive one. (The completive stem is usually derived from the individuating stem via infixation or suffixation of -i-.) It is thought that the two may have been used for singular and plural earlier in the history of the language. In classical Īsmay, the two stems are used to derive four numbers for which nouns inflect: singular and paucal are based on the individuating stem, and dual and plural - on the completive one.

The singular uses the base individuating stem and is also used as the dictionary form of the noun. It can only have underlying short vowels, with long vowels stemming from semivowel assimilation.
The dual has restricted distribution - it is mostly only available for words forming natural pairs such as body parts, couples, etc. In fact, nouns lacking a dual will frequently use a dual-like form for their plural. In some cases, it uses the base completive stem, but - equally frequently - suffixes -s onto it.
The paucal can have a secondary partitive or collective meaning. It's basically a "marked" plural option. It is indicated by the suffixes -ib and -ij added to the individuating stem.
The plural can use the base completive stem (especially for nouns that lack a dual), but is more frequently indicated by one of the suffixes -i -a -ad.

Nouns only inflect for number but they are inherently classified as one of three genders: masculine, feminine, or abstract. The abstract gender is mostly reserved for deverbal nouns and some abstract concepts like "time". The assignment of masculine or feminine to most nouns is unpredictable, with the only cue being that feminine nouns frequently have a voiceless stop as their second or third radical, and masculine nouns tend to have a nasal or an approximant in that position.

Under the spoiler, some declension tables can be found for the more curious:
Spoiler:

A "V" in the tables below means one of the short vowels /a i u/. <y> is /j/.

Monoradical nouns

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		Leading V	Trailing V
singular:	VC		CV
dual:		VC(s)VC		CVsCV
paucal:		VCib		--
plural:		VCVC(i)		CV̄CV
Biradical nouns

Biradical nouns have two forms of the completive: infixed or suffixed. Which one is used is completely unpredictable and has to be learned for individual nouns. Biradical suffixed completives usually take the suffix -s in the dual, and -yad in the plural. Their infixed counterparts usually use the completive stem as the dual form, and any of -i -a -ad as the plural suffix.

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Individuating:	Infixed completive:	Suffixed completive:
CaC		CaiC				CaCi
erC		(ariC)				erCi
azC		(aziC)				azCi
iCC(a)		eCiC				iCCi
uCC(a)		oCiC				oCCi
īC(a)		īC				īCi
ūC(a)		ūyC(a)				ūCi
As can be seen, there are several "special cases" here.

Triradical nouns

Triradical nouns have two basic formats: right- or left-leaning, depending on whether the medial radical clusters with the radical to its right or left in the individuating stem. They are more regular but there are still some variants - and again, they are lexical and have to be learned.

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RIGHT-LEANING
Singular:	(V)CVCC(a)
Dual:		(V)CVCiC
Paucal:		(V)CVCCib /-ij
Plural:		CVCiCa(d) / V̄CCiCa(d)

LEFT-LEANING:
Singular:	VCCVC
Dual:		VCCVCis
Paucal:		VCCVCib /-ij
Plural:		VCCVCī / VCCVCya(d)
For the less curious, let's provide a few actual nouns to showcase the declension:

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MEANING		GENDER		SINGULAR		DUAL		PAUCAL		PLURAL	COMMENT
river		masculine	yudr			---		yudrib		yudir 
food		feminine								abhik	(plurale tantum)
meal, dish	feminine	bhaku			bhakiv		bhakvib		bhakiva	(the dual can mean “all meals in a day” due to there being two prototypical meals)
wind		masculine 	abhū			---		abhūib		abhuyu
mother		feminine	nana			nainas		nanaib		naina	(the dual form can be used for mother and wet nurse or stepmother)
timber, log	feminine	ulat			---		ultib		ulati
bird		masculine	al			alsal		alib		alal
time (period)	abstract 	prā			---		prahij		praś
PERSONAL PRONOUNS

For completeness' sake, let's mention personal pronouns.

Personal pronouns inflect for number and gender (with the abstract gender only available in the third person), and they additionally inflect for person. As can be see from the table below, there is a clusivity distinction in the first person, and a gender distinction in all cases except for first person plural.

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			SINGULAR	DUAL		PAUCAL		PLURAL
1M			ma
1F			mak
1INCL					awwa		ūb		iwwa
1EXCL					assa		sāb		issa
2M			dham		dhās		dhub		idhma
2F			dhak		dhaksa		dhakba		idhka
3M			yad		ifsa		ūb		īv
3F			ik		iksa		ikba		īk
3A			lam		lams		lāb		yāl

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Re: Īsmay - a Christmas miracle of a language

Post by gestaltist » 20 Jan 2019 23:06

Alright, I'm not going to have the time to lay out the whole verbal system in this post but I want to force myself to write something or else I'm likely to abandon this thread. (Or maybe I can lay out the whole system? Let's see how much editing my notes need before being copied over.)

LET'S TALK ABOUT VERBS

Ismaic verbs conjugate for tense, mood, and voice. Aspectual distinctions are not a part of conjugation and can be expressed through semantics (prototypically, through verb serialization).
They also agree with the *nominative* subject for person, gender, and number. Please note that syntactic alignment is ergative, so the verb agrees with the subject of an intransitive verb, but with the ergative object of a transitive verb.
A feature of Īsmay's radical system is that agreement markers are infixed onto the root before any conjugation is applied. You add this person marker after the second literal. This root with the infixed agreement marker is known as the consonantal base. From this base, you create derived stems (binyanim/awzaan) which contain tense and mood information, and default to the active voice. Other voices are expressed via affixes added onto these stems.

AGREEMENT INFIXES

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		SINGULAR	DUAL		PAUCAL		PLURAL
1M		-m-
1F		-k-
1INCL				-w-		-b-		-mm-
1EXCL				-s-		-sab-		-ss-
2M		-dh-		-dhas-		-mudh-		-ydh-
2F		-dh-		-dhas-		-kudh-		-ydh-
3M		-∅-		-s-		-b-		-y-
3F		-k-		-s-		-kab-		-yk-
3A		-l-		-l-		-l-		-y-
Spoiler:
Let's take two roots as an example:
biconsonantal K-P (to get)
triconsonantal Dh-L-B (to know)

The 3sm form is zero marked, i.e., the consonantal base is equal to the root. 1sm would be K-P-M and Dh-L-M-B, respectively.
TENSE
Three grammatical tenses can be found in Īsmay. The aorist, also known as “past” or “past simple”, is the least-marked form, and expresses most past situations. The non-past is built based on aorist forms, and expresses present and future situations. The historical past expresses remote events. It is mainly used in narrative.

MOOD
There are four grammatical moods: two reales and two irreales. However, the historical past only utilizes two moods.
The puncual realis mood is used when describing an action linked to a specific point on the space-time continuum. That place or time doesn’t have to be made explicit in the discourse.
The gnomic realis mood (also called generic realis) is used when a spatiotemporal specification is lacking. Because of that, the historical past can only use this realis mood - the assumption being that the exact place and time of historical events cannot be known.
The dubitative, sometimes also called the subjunctive, is a mood used to express a lack of certainty. It is somewhere on the verge between realis and irrealis. It can be used to indicate that the described event is inferred or known from hearsay. It is used for related speech. It is also the mood used for questions.
(The historical past lacks a dubitative form. It uses the gnomic realis for most related uses, and non-past dubitative is usually used to ask questions.)
The irrealis is a generic mood used to express all counterfactuals, and other irrealis meanings, except for those covered by the dubitative.
Spoiler:
I'm not going to show all conjugation tables this time. Let's show an example with the citation form: the aorist gnomic. We have a C-C form (get<3sm>), a C-C-C form (get<1sm> and know<3sm>), and a C-C-C-C form (know<1sm>). Each of these follow their own conjugation pattern, which gives us:
Aorist gnomic: CāC -> kāp ("he got"); CaCaC -> kapam ("I got"), dhalab ("He knew"); CaCaCC -> dhalamb ("I knew")
Next time: voice

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Re: Īsmay - verbal system continued

Post by gestaltist » 28 Jan 2019 09:29

Today, let's discuss voice. Voice is marked through affixes with the exception of the Causative which alters the stem. I have divided voices into "syntactical" and "lexical". Causative and cooperative are characterized as "lexical" because they often cause a semantic shift, and are perceived by Īsmay speakers as separate words. More importantly, though, they are the only two voices which can form their own deverbal nouns.

Note that my example belows are pseudo-glosses meant for illustration and they don't represent well-formed Ismaic sentences.

SYNTACTICAL VOICES

Most voices are used mainly as a syntactic device, without changing the core meaning of the verb. They are covered under this section.

Active Voice
The active voice is the unmarked voice in both intransitive and transitive verbs, with the expected syntactical structure of the patient coming as the first (and obligatory) argument, and the agent coming after the verb in transitive sentences. The verb agrees with the nominative subject.
Impersonal verbs are also active in form although no argument is specified.

Passive Voice
The default, unmarked grammatical voice could as well be called the active-passive when it comes to transitives, since passivization only requires dropping the ergative argument. This strategy is available without many restrictions.
It is probably a relic of an earlier nominative-accusative grammar, with the agreement marker taking on the role of the subject. I.e., one could argue that Īsmay has no dedicated passive voice and is simply pro-drop in the active voice. The counterargument to this interpretation, however, is that the absolutive argument can never be dropped.
If the agent of a passivized transitive verb is unknown or unspecified, the verbs takes the agreement marker -b-, corresponding to the paucal markers in third person masculine and first person inclusive, glossed as unknown subject (US). (The diachronic provenience of this usage is uncertain.)
The syntactical reflexive can be analyzed as a special case of the passive voice. It is distinguished only by the fact that in the reflexive, the verb agrees with the absolutive subject, i.e., `I wash<1sm>` means “I wash myself”, whereas `I wash<US>` means “Someone washes me” or “I am being washed.”
A passivized transitive can also cover mediopassive meanings, such as “the cake cooks.” In these contexts, verb agreement can be either reflexive or with the unknown subject. The former seems to be preferred for animate arguments, and the latter - for inanimate ones.

Antipassive Voice
In the antipassive voice, the ergative argument of a transitive verb is raised to the role of the absolutive subject, and the valency is decreased. The patient can be reintroduced as an oblique argument.
It is to be noted that Īsmay has some deponent verbs which are intransitive verbs semantically but take an obligatory antipassive prefix.
The antipassive can also be used in a reciprocal construction (see below).
Antipassive can also be used with intransitives to express volition, effectively turning an unaccusative verb into an unergative one. This is most common with the verbs of motion:

Code: Select all

1sm ANTIP-trip<1sm>
meaning “I tripped on purpose.” It can also indicate intention (“I listened carefully”).

Reflexive Voice
The morphological reflexive described here competes with a syntactical reflexive strategy described earlier under the passive voice. It expresses that the agent and undergoer of an action are the same actor. The dedicated reflexive is a feature of more formal speech, and is gradually falling out of use in favore of the syntactical one.

Circumstantial Voice
The circumstantial doesn’t change the valency of the verb. It raises an oblique argument to the role of the absolutive subject. It can be used with both transitives and intransitives. It doesn’t affect the ergative agent, but it demotes the patient which can be expressed as an oblique argument or omitted.
As an additional note: the preposition which would introduce the raised argument in the active voice is often prepended to the verb, especially with verbs of motion or location.

Adjutative Voice
The adjutative voice places an actor helping to do something in the ergative slot. The original agent is placed in the absolutive, and any direct object is demoted to an oblique role.

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John-ABS build-ADJ Mark-ERG
= “Mark helps John build.”

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John-ABS sleep-ADJ potion-ERG
= “The potion helps John sleep.” While the adjutative construction is similar to the causative one, it doesn’t have the same lexical effect, and can even be applied to a verb in the causative voice (

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John-ABS eat-CAUS-ADJ Mark-ERG to cows
= “Mark helps John feed the cows.”
The adjutative has a secondary permissive meaning. (The examples above could be translated as: “Mark lets John build.”, “The potion lets John sleep.”, and “Mark lets John feed the cows.”, respectively.)

Reciprocal constructions
Īsmay has no dedicated reciprocal voice but there are two common strategies to express it.
The first strategy uses the active voice with a dedicated noun which could be translated as “each other”:

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each_other-ABS fight we-ERG
= “We fight with each other.”
The second strategy consists of antipassivization and repetition of the agent with the preposition among:

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1p-ABS fight-ANTIP  among=1p
= “We fight with each other.”

LEXICAL VOICES
The voices mentioned below have a strong lexical component, to the point of often being covered as separate lexicon entries. Because of that, they are often combined with other - syntactical - voice markers.

Causative Voice
The causative raises the valency of the verb by one, and places the causer in the ergative slot. It is to be noted that unaccusative verbs can usually be transitivized by simply adding the causer as the ergative argument while keeping the verb in active voice. (“The tree fell” > “I felled the tree”). However, the dedicated causative voice can also be used - and has to be used for transitive verbs and unergative intransitives. The causee becomes the absolutive argument. If the underlying verb was transitive, the previous direct object can be reintroduced as an oblique argument. The causative is very productive lexically. (eat-CAUS = “feed” to give one example).

Cooperative Voice
The cooperative voice expresses reciprocity or common action. It turns “selling” into “trading”, and “eating” into “feasting”. Because of the prominence of this semantic role, the cooperative can be used with a singular subject, with the other actors remaining implicit. It is to be noted that the cooperative places the agent in the absolutive and detransitivizes an affected transitive verb. The undergoer, as well as implied cooperators, are demoted to optional oblique arguments.

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I-ABS sleep-COOP (with her)
= “I have sex (with her)”;

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I-ABS fight-COOP
= “I fight in a squad/army”, etc.)
The cooperative’s prefix frequently loses the echo vowel if prefixed with another voice prefix due to syncope rules.

Under the spoiler, the actual voice affixes are provided.
Spoiler:
Voice affixes are illustrated on a few forms of the biradical verb bāl in first person masculine (suffix -m):

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Active: -0			bālm	īblum		āblunt
Antipassive: dh(E*)-		dhabālm	dhīblum		dhāblunt
Adjutative: tu-***		tubālm	tūblum		tūblunt
Causative:	-ā-**		bālām	ībulām		āblānt
Reflexive: s(E*)-		sabālm	śīblum		sāblunt
Cooperative: s(E*)- -i		sabālmi	sībulmi		sāblunti
Circumstantial:VD-****		abbālm	ībbalum		ābbalunt

*E means an "echo vowel" repeating the following vowel (but always short)
**a vowel infix deletes a stem-final short vowel
***the u is strong and supplants an initial vowel, becoming long
****D means reduplication of the stem-initial consonant. In the case of a following consonant, an epenthetic -a- is added. If there is no initial vowel, a- is taken (but can be ommitted if it doesn't form an initial cluster - e.g., due to further prefixation or cliticization.)

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Re: Īsmay - verbal system continued

Post by Omzinesý » 28 Jan 2019 14:55

gestaltist wrote:
28 Jan 2019 09:29

Passive Voice
The default, unmarked grammatical voice could as well be called the active-passive when it comes to transitives, since passivization only requires dropping the ergative argument. This strategy is available without many restrictions.
It is probably a relic of an earlier nominative-accusative grammar, with the agreement marker taking on the role of the subject. I.e., one could argue that Īsmay has no dedicated passive voice and is simply pro-drop in the active voice. The counterargument to this interpretation, however, is that the absolutive argument can never be dropped.
If the agent of a passivized transitive verb is unknown or unspecified, the verbs takes the agreement marker -b-, corresponding to the paucal markers in third person masculine and first person inclusive, glossed as unknown subject (US). (The diachronic provenience of this usage is uncertain.)
The syntactical reflexive can be analyzed as a special case of the passive voice. It is distinguished only by the fact that in the reflexive, the verb agrees with the absolutive subject, i.e., `I wash<1sm>` means “I wash myself”, whereas `I wash<US>` means “Someone washes me” or “I am being washed.”
A passivized transitive can also cover mediopassive meanings, such as “the cake cooks.” In these contexts, verb agreement can be either reflexive or with the unknown subject. The former seems to be preferred for animate arguments, and the latter - for inanimate ones.

Antipassive Voice
In the antipassive voice, the ergative argument of a transitive verb is raised to the role of the absolutive subject, and the valency is decreased. The patient can be reintroduced as an oblique argument.
It is to be noted that Īsmay has some deponent verbs which are intransitive verbs semantically but take an obligatory antipassive prefix.
The antipassive can also be used in a reciprocal construction (see below).
Antipassive can also be used with intransitives to express volition, effectively turning an unaccusative verb into an unergative one. This is most common with the verbs of motion:

Code: Select all

1sm ANTIP-trip<1sm>
meaning “I tripped on purpose.” It can also indicate intention (“I listened carefully”).
Did I understand right? Pseudo-examples:
[dog][cat][chase] 'The dog chases the cat.'
[cat][chase] 'The cat is chased.'
Would an easier analyses just be that the verbs are lexically absolutive-ergative, i.e. dropping the agent argument also drops it from the argument structure. I think "Potatoes boil." is not a passive. I may have misunderstood something.
Could Impersonal be a better gloss for Unknown Subject?
Edit: Sorry, now I see. The verb still agrees with the A(gent).
I think it would be seen as a zero-person, fourth person, impersonal person, or whatever they are called.
Adjutative voice is interesting!
I think it would also be seen as a kind of causative, "adjutative causative" maybe.
Its use as an instrumental applicative is especially practical. Im gonna copy it in some lang.

Is the cooperative voice used in 'send letters to each other'? It's the basic example in the list of Arabic K-T-B derivations. In Arabic, I think, it still can be transitive, the letters being the object.

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Re: Īsmay - verbal system continued

Post by Omzinesý » 28 Jan 2019 15:10

gestaltist wrote:
28 Jan 2019 09:29

If the agent of a passivized transitive verb is unknown or unspecified, the verbs takes the agreement marker -b-, corresponding to the paucal markers in third person masculine and first person inclusive, glossed as unknown subject (US). (The diachronic provenience of this usage is uncertain.)
Can it be specified, however?
How do the clauses look like then?

It's an indicator of a lang being "good", when describing it gets hard!

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Re: Īsmay - verbal system continued

Post by gestaltist » 28 Jan 2019 23:08

Omzinesý wrote:
28 Jan 2019 14:55
Did I understand right? Pseudo-examples:
[dog][cat][chase] 'The dog chases the cat.'
[cat][chase] 'The cat is chased.'
Would an easier analyses just be that the verbs are lexically absolutive-ergative, i.e. dropping the agent argument also drops it from the argument structure. I think "Potatoes boil." is not a passive. I may have misunderstood something.
Could Impersonal be a better gloss for Unknown Subject?
Edit: Sorry, now I see. The verb still agrees with the A(gent).
I think it would be seen as a zero-person, fourth person, impersonal person, or whatever they are called.
Īsmay is split-ergative. Syntactically, it is ergative-absolutive and SVO. Morphologically, it is nominative-accusative, with the verb agreeing with the ergative agent in a transitive sentence.

Let's inspect your example sentence:

"The dog chases the cat."
Yuv nōnbūku bis.

Code: Select all

cat	after=go<3sf>\NPST.PUNC	dog
yuv	nonu=būw<k>u		bis
It's a transitive sentence so the undergoer, being the absolutive argument, goes before the verb, and the (ergative) agent goes after. However, the verb agrees with the nominative subject, i.e., with the "dog". (In Īsmay, "dog" is prototypically feminine, and "cat" is prototypically masculine.)

If you drop the ergative argument, you get this:
"She chases the cat./The cat is chased (by her)."
Yuv nōnbūku.

Code: Select all

cat	after=go<3sf>\NPST.PUNC
yuv	nonu=būw<k>u
I.e., the ergative argument can be freely dropped without adding a personal pronoun, as agreement on the verb encodes that information already.

Now, what happens if the above sentence gets the marker -b-:
"Some of us chase the cat./Some of them chase the cat./The cat is chased."
Yuv nōnbūbu.

Code: Select all

cat	after=go<1INCL.PAUC/3m.PAUC/US>\NPST.PUNC
yuv	nonu=būw<b>u
As you can see, the marker -b- is somewhat overloaded. It can mean that somebody among us talking is doing the action or some of those other people are doing it. Because of that convenient under-specificity, the meaning of this marker gradually broadened to include any unknown agent. I guess I could just as well gloss the above sentence as "cat after=go<PAS>\NPST.PUNC". Semantically, it really is just it: a passive construction. It doesn't have the same connotations as the zero person constructions in Finnish or zero anaphora in Slavic languages, for example. Does this clarify somewhat?
Omzinesý wrote:
28 Jan 2019 15:10
gestaltist wrote:
28 Jan 2019 09:29
If the agent of a passivized transitive verb is unknown or unspecified, the verbs takes the agreement marker -b-, corresponding to the paucal markers in third person masculine and first person inclusive, glossed as unknown subject (US). (The diachronic provenience of this usage is uncertain.)
Can it be specified, however?
How do the clauses look like then?
I hope the answer to this will be easier to see now. With an agent, the marker -b- is just that - an agreement marker of the first person inclusive or third person masculine in the paucal number. I.e., it loses its "passive" meaning. If you're asking about phrases like "The cat was chased [by a dog]", this would always be expressed with the active voice in Īsmay. Think of it as the equivalent of the English sentence "The dog chased." You could treat it as an antipassive sentence because you deleted the undergoer. But the moment you re-add the undergoer, it becomes active voice again. Īsmay, being ERG-ABS, could keep the antipassive voice and reintroduce the undergoer as an oblique argument - but cannot do so in the passive. Does it make sense?
Adjutative voice is interesting!
I think it would also be seen as a kind of causative, "adjutative causative" maybe.
Its use as an instrumental applicative is especially practical. Im gonna copy it in some lang.
I'm glad you like it. Of course it could be seen as a type of causative. In fact, it derives from the original proto-Ismaic causative. The reason I avoid calling it that is because the causative has a strong semantic component which the adjutative lacks. Also, given its secondary meaning, it might have to be called adjutative-permissive. And an "adjutative-permissive causative" just doesn't roll off the tongue, does it. [:)]
Is the cooperative voice used in 'send letters to each other'? It's the basic example in the list of Arabic K-T-B derivations. In Arabic, I think, it still can be transitive, the letters being the object.
Yes! sāptalī, the cooperative form of patal ("to write") means "to correspond, to exchange letters." In Īsmay, it is strictly intransitive. You can introduce the letters as an oblique argument, of course, not unlike in English: "they corresponded via lengthy letters."
It's an indicator of a lang being "good", when describing it gets hard!
Thank you for your interest, your inquisitive questions, and for the compliment. [:)]

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Re: Īsmay - verbal system continued

Post by Ahzoh » 29 Jan 2019 01:29

gestaltist wrote:
28 Jan 2019 09:29
LEXICAL VOICES
The voices mentioned below have a strong lexical component, to the point of often being covered as separate lexicon entries. Because of that, they are often combined with other - syntactical - voice markers.

Causative Voice
The causative raises the valency of the verb by one, and places the causer in the ergative slot. It is to be noted that unaccusative verbs can usually be transitivized by simply adding the causer as the ergative argument while keeping the verb in active voice. (“The tree fell” > “I felled the tree”). However, the dedicated causative voice can also be used - and has to be used for transitive verbs and unergative intransitives. The causee becomes the absolutive argument. If the underlying verb was transitive, the previous direct object can be reintroduced as an oblique argument. The causative is very productive lexically. (eat-CAUS = “feed” to give one example).

Cooperative Voice
The cooperative voice expresses reciprocity or common action. It turns “selling” into “trading”, and “eating” into “feasting”. Because of the prominence of this semantic role, the cooperative can be used with a singular subject, with the other actors remaining implicit. It is to be noted that the cooperative places the agent in the absolutive and detransitivizes an affected transitive verb. The undergoer, as well as implied cooperators, are demoted to optional oblique arguments.

Code: Select all

I-ABS sleep-COOP (with her)
= “I have sex (with her)”;

Code: Select all

I-ABS fight-COOP
= “I fight in a squad/army”, etc.)
The cooperative’s prefix frequently loses the echo vowel if prefixed with another voice prefix due to syncope rules.
My triconlang also has four voices similar to yours, although my causative analogue is more of an instrumental applicative and my cooperative has adjutative (helping) functions and doesn't detransitivize. The latter two make for some interesting nouns:

śutñe "one who hears" > śəttuñe "one who is used to hear"
mabñiga "trial, ordeal" > mabñaggaha "mutual trial, mutual ordeal"
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Re: Īsmay - deverbal nouns

Post by gestaltist » 08 Feb 2019 10:38

Ahzoh wrote:
29 Jan 2019 01:29
My triconlang also has four voices similar to yours, although my causative analogue is more of an instrumental applicative and my cooperative has adjutative (helping) functions and doesn't detransitivize. The latter two make for some interesting nouns:

śutñe "one who hears" > śəttuñe "one who is used to hear"
mabñiga "trial, ordeal" > mabñaggaha "mutual trial, mutual ordeal"
Hey Ahzoh. Sorry for the lack of response. I wrote one but for some reason it is not here? Maybe I left it as a draft and forgot. Be it as it may... I wonder how much of my post your really read since 1) I have more than four voices; and 2) I do have a strictly adjutative voice. Maybe I misunderstand your comment.

I enjoy deverbal derivations from various voices same as you, so let's talk about that. Inspired by your example, I'll use the root H-Y-R to illustrate. (It means "to hear", and yes, it's an Easter egg.)

DEVERBAL NOUNS

Īsmay has four types of deverbal nouns. Let's investigate them.

Basic Deverbal
The basic deverbal denotes an activity or a specific action, depending on context (so Īsmay doesn’t distinguish between “walking”, and “a walk”).

The basic deverbal is formed according to the pattern under the spoiler.
Spoiler:

Code: Select all

		biradical		triradical
SG		CaC			CaCC(a)
DU		CaCis			CaCiCs(a)
PAUC		CaCib			CaCCib
PL		CaCi			CaCiC
The causative and cooperative forms have a strong enough lexical component to need their own deverbal nouns. The causative inserts its long -ā-, and the cooperative - a long -ī-, giving the following:

Code: Select all

 CAUS / COOP
		biradical	triradical
SG		CaCV̄		CaCCV̄
DU		CaCV̄s		CaCV̄Cs(a)
PAUC		CaCV̄b		CaCCV̄b
PL		CaCV̄d		CaCV̄Ci
To create a causative+cooperative noun the suffix -āy is added:

Code: Select all

 CAUS + COOP
		biradical	triradical
SG		CaCāy		CaCCāy
DU		CaCāys		CaCCāyas
PAUC		CaCāyb		CaCCāyb
PL		CaCāyd		CaCCāya
Agent noun
Adding the antipassive prefix dhE- to the basic deverbal forms creates an agent noun ("invader, singer, sleeper"). Note that this is also sometimes available for intransitive verbs which can’t use an antipassive. ("E" means an echo vowel.)

Circumstantial deverbal
Adding the circumstantial prefix eD- creates a circumstantial noun denoting manner, ability, or a place or object used to perform a given action (a “funny/fast (manner of) walk(ing)”, the ability to walk, or a walking path). ("D" means reduplication of the initial consonant).

Resultative deverbal
Adding the unique prefix kra- creates a resultative noun denoting the result or the patient of an action (“employee”, “killing victim”, “building”, “dent”, “wound”).

All deverbal nouns have the abstract gender, except for the agent noun which is masculine or feminine depending on context.

EXAMPLES

Let's derive all possible deverbals of the root H-Y-R ("to hear")

It has four semantic verbal stems:
hayar - "to hear" (the base form)
hayār - "to announce to someone" (recepient is the direct object, content is added with “about”) - this is the causative form
sājari - "to listen to an announcement or order; to accept a law or rule" - this is the cooperative form
sājāri - "to jointly proclaim something, make a pact, to publicly agree on something" - this is the cooperative+causative form

This gives us the following four base deverbals (I'm giving the singular / dual / paucal / plural forms between the slashes).

hajr / hayīš / hajrib / hayir - "(act of) hearing" (cf. hajr / hayir / hajrib / hajrâ meaning "ear" and declining according to another pattern)
hajrā / hayāš / hajrāb / hayāri - "(act of) announcing, announcement"
hajrī / hayīš / hajrīb / hayīri - "(act of) accepting a message/law; submission"
hajrāy / hajrāyas / hajrāyb / hajrāya - "(joint) proclamation, pact"

From this basis, the following deverbals can be created (only giving singular forms):

Agent nouns
dhahajr - listener
dhahajrā - announcer
dhahajrī - one submitting to a law or announcement
dhahajrāy - pact-maker/co-signer

Circumstantial nouns
ešajr - attentiveness
ešajrā - podium, place from which announcements are made
ešajrī - submissiveness, obedience, lawfulness
ešajrāy - written pact or contract

Resultative nouns
krahajr - noise, rumor, sound
krahajrā - order-taker, subordinate
krahajrī - law, custom
krahajrāy - articles/content of a pact

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Re: Īsmay - verbal system continued

Post by Jackk » 08 Feb 2019 12:13

Very nice! [:D] Deverbals are derivation I always enjoy; I have lots in Boral (and i really should have more options for that sort of thing in Duban...)

I also really like the echo vowel/gemination morphemes (again, reminds me of Duban [B)] ). Īsmay clearly has a lot of phonological processes going on - it took me a long while to see some of the correspondences!
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Re: Īsmay - deverbal nouns

Post by Ahzoh » 08 Feb 2019 18:30

gestaltist wrote:
08 Feb 2019 10:38
I wonder how much of my post your really read since 1) I have more than four voices; and 2) I do have a strictly adjutative voice.
The voices were what stuck out to me first and I at first only saw active, passive and especially the lexical voices I had quoted.

Mainly I wanted to make note of the interesting differences between coincidentally similar features between parallel projects, in this case between a priori triconlangs.
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