Miršian - a Finnic conlang

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Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 16 Jan 2019 19:13

Miršian - ethnonym miršiõ or miršia ćeli - is one of my Uralic projects.

It is a Uralic language of the Finnic branch, where it more resembles the Southern languages, Estonian and Livonian. It's a minority language spoken somewhere in the Baltic countries or East from there.

Some features:

Phonological:
- Recreation of a system of many sibilants and affricates
- No consonant gradation, or a very limited one
- Lack of rounded front vowels
- Lack of long vowels
- Preserves many coda consonants, NOM kagõł - ACC kagła Estonian: kael - kaela

Morphological:
- Lack of partitive singular, partitive plural develops to an indefinite plural absolutive

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 16 Jan 2019 21:08

A attempt to make a paradigm of nominal inflection
'Fish' is always the best example word.

singular
NOMINATIVE: kal ~ kalõ (< kala, word-final /a/ reduces)
ACCUSATIVE: kala (< kalan, word-internal /a/ doesn't reduce)
GENITIVE: kala (< kalan, word-internal /a/ doesn't reduce)
DATIVE: kalen (< kalēn < kalaen < kala-hen (Finnish kalaan))
INSTUMENTAL: kalal (< kala-lla)

LOCATIVE: kala-s (< kala-ssa)
ABLATIVE: kala-st (kala-sta)
APPROXIMATIVE: kale-mpe (< kalēnpei < kalaenpein < kala-hen päin (Finnish kalaan päin))
TERMINATIVE: kala-ni (kala-nik)

plural
NOMINATIVE: kalat
ACCUSATIVE: kalat
INDEF. ABSOLUTIVE (PARTITIVE): kalot
GENITIVE: kalade
DATIVE: kalohin
INSTUMENTAL: kalol

LOCATIVE: kala-de-s
ABLATIVE: kala-de-st
APPROXIMATIVE: kale-de-mpe
TERMINATIVE: kala-de-ni

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 21 Jan 2019 20:48

Something on verbs:

'to bear'
sg1 kanda
sg2 kandad
sg3 kandu (kanda-u < kanda-vi)
pl1 kandam
pl2 kandat
pl3 kandud (< kanda-ut < kanda-va-t)

'to become, to arrive'
sg1 sa
sg2 sad
sg3 sab (< saa-pi)
pl1 sam
pl2 sat
pl3 sab

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by gach » 22 Jan 2019 23:34

Omzinesý wrote:
16 Jan 2019 19:13
- Lack of partitive singular, partitive plural develops to an indefinite plural absolutive
Do you have anything more ready on this subject? It sounds like it could be interesting. Is the partitive plural supposed to be in contrast with the definite nominative/accusative plural or do you have a more complex split in mind?
ImageKištaLkal sikSeic

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 23 Jan 2019 19:28

gach wrote:
22 Jan 2019 23:34
Omzinesý wrote:
16 Jan 2019 19:13
- Lack of partitive singular, partitive plural develops to an indefinite plural absolutive
Do you have anything more ready on this subject? It sounds like it could be interesting. Is the partitive plural supposed to be in contrast with the definite nominative/accusative plural or do you have a more complex split in mind?
My idea was just to preserve what already exist in Finnish at least. My Estonian grammar book, for some reason, doesn't tell about such a usage. Mirsian just increses the frequency of those uses.

Intransitive subjects:
Poikia leikkii pihalla.
Some boys are playing outdoors.

Pojat leikkivät pihalla.
The boys are playing outdoors.


Transitive object:
Poimin kukkia.
I picked some flowers.

Poimin kukat.
I picked the flowers.

This is thus not as innovative an idea as calling it an absolutive hints.
I think non-countable words will also often appear in this indefinite absolutive "plural" like in Saami.

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 23 Jan 2019 20:37

On vowels

Proto-Finnic had (maybe?) the following vowels:

*y, *i, *u
*e, *o
*æ, *ɑ

*y:, *i:, *u:
*ø:, *e:, *o:
*æ:, *ɑ:

1. Short /*y/ merges with /*i/
2. If back-vowels follow, /*e/ is backed, creating /ɤ/, it later rises (in most environments) to mid-high (merked ɪ̈ here).
3. Long /*y:/ dipthongize to [yi], which can be analysed as /uj/.
4. Long non-high vowels diphthongize /*ø:/ => /jø/, /*e:/ => /je/, /*o:/ => /wo/, /*æ:/ => /jæ/, /*ɑ:/ => /wɑ/
5. /jø/ backs to /jo/
6. /ɑ/ is fronted to [ä]
7. /æ/ sometimes merges with /ɑ/, sometimes with /e/
8. Short high vowel are lowered to mid-high.
9. Word-final vowel is lost if the word has more than to syllables or the first syllable is "strong" or closed.
10. Word-final /ä/ is lost or reduced to /ɜ/, which is considered an allophone of /ɪ̈/.

So the vowel system is something like:
uj, ij, uw
ɪ, ɪ̈, ʊ
e, o
ä

C + glide develop to new affricates and sibilants
*t/*k + j => t͡ɕ
*t/*k + w => t͡ʃ
s* + j => ɕ
s* + w => ʃ

Diphtongs are still coming!

Some examples:
*ke:li 'language, tongue'
=> 4. kjeli => t͡ɕeli
9. doesn't affect (see Estonian ke:l) because the vowel is not long anymore.

sepra 'friend'
=> 2. sɪ̈bra => 9. sɪ̈ber

*sø: 'eat'
=> 4. sjø(:) => 5. sjo(:) => ɕo(:)

*so: 'swamp'
=> 4. swo(:) => ʃo(:)

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 24 Jan 2019 16:20

A new paradigm of a noun
Some changes have already appeared

šari 'island'

singular
NOMINATIVE: šari
ACCUSATIVE: šare
GENITIVE: šare

DATIVE: šari-n
LOCATIVE: šare-s
ABLATIVE: šare-st
APPROXIMATIVE: šare-mbas

TERMINATIVE: šar-riq
ESSIVE: šar-ra (< saar-na)
TRANSLATIVE: šar-ra-q

COMITATIVE: šare-lin-na
ABESSIVE: šare-ton-na

plural
NOMINATIVE: šare-d
ACCUSATIVE: šare-d
INDEF. ABSOLUTIVE (PARTITIVE): šar-id
GENITIVE: šare-de
DATIVE: šar-din

LOCATIVE: šar-de-s
ABLATIVE: šar-de-st
APPROXIMATIVE: šar-de-mpe

TERMINATIVE: šare-d-ni
ESSIVE: šare-d-ni
TRANSLATIVE: šare-d-na-q

COMITATIVE: šare-lis-i-na
ABESSIVE: šare-tom-i-na

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 24 Jan 2019 16:34

Consonants

p, t̪, k ʔ
b, d̪, g
m n
t͡s t͡ʂ t͡ɕ
s ʂ ɕ x
r l ʟ
(ⱱ, ɾ maybe)
v j


Proto-Finnic had (maybe?)

p t k (and their weak allophones as voiced fricatives)
m n
t͡s
s h
r l
v j
Many of the consonants could be geminated.


1) The inventory of affricates and sibilants is created from tj, tw, kj, kw, sj, and sw
*keeli => ćeli 'language'

2) Stops are voiced in voiced environments. Syllable-finally they are devoiced, anyway.
*koto > kodo 'home'

3) Gemninated stops are simplified to voiceless single stops.
*seppä => sepa 'smith'

4) l+v => ʟ, also l => ʟ after velars
*talvi => tałi 'winter'
*kakla => kageł 'neck'


Length
There is a length distinction in both consonants and vowels in Miršian. Neither of them has much functional load.

Word-final stressed vowels are pronounced long. If such a word gets a suffix, the vowel stays long.
sa [sä:] 'gets' - sad [sä:t] 'you get'

Some consonants assimilate creating geminates.
šari 'island' - šarriq 'to the island'
Last edited by Omzinesý on 24 Jan 2019 17:26, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 24 Jan 2019 17:18

On consonant gradation

It's questionable if Proto-Finnic had consonant gradation. My opinion is that it did somewhat but consonant gradations of different Finnic languages differ. Livonian and Veps have very little of it, while Estonian has very much.

Usually the "basic" consonant gradation is thought to be:
1) Short stops (p,t,k) appear as voiced fricatives (β,ð,ɣ) at the border of the first and second syllable if the second syllable is closed.
koto - koðo-t 'home - homes'

2) Geminates become "short geminates" at the border of the first and second syllable if the second syllable is closed.
seppä - seppä-t 'smith - smiths' (hard to type)

3. Consonants between two unstressed syllables, the second and third in practice, have the weak grade. (Comparable to Werner's law in Germanic)
*saa-pi 'gets'
*tule-βi 'comes'



In Miršian, gradation

1) disappears when all geminated stops are simplified to single stops.
I'm still considering if the elision of word-final vowels happens before the simplification of the geminates, because then it should always happen after a geminate.
*seppä => sepp => sep
or
*seppä => sepa = sepa

2) single voiceless stops are voiced. My first idea was that both the strong and weak versions become voiced stops, but I'm still considering if the weak versions could in some contexts appear as taps. [<3] Bilabial tap [<3]

3) does affect the paradigms, but its phonetic nature disappears.
sab < *saa-pi 'gets'
tulu < *tule-βi 'comes'

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 27 Jan 2019 13:44

Omzinesý wrote:
21 Jan 2019 20:48
Something on verbs:

'to bear'
sg1 kanda
sg2 kandad
sg3 kandu (kanda-u < kanda-vi)
pl1 kandam
pl2 kandat
pl3 kandud (< kanda-ut < kanda-va-t)

'to become, to arrive'
sg1 sa
sg2 sad
sg3 sab (< saa-pi)
pl1 sam
pl2 sat
pl3 sab
Some verbs, whose stem ends in /n/ also take -b in 3rd person.

mene 'I go'
mened 'you go'
menp 'goes'
menme 'we go'
mente 'you go'
menpad 'they go'

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 27 Jan 2019 16:22

And the -s declension

varbas 'toe'

singular
NOMINATIVE: varba-s
ACCUSATIVE: varba-h
GENITIVE: varba-h

DATIVE: varba-h-sen
LOCATIVE: varba-he-s
ABLATIVE: varba-he-st
APPROXIMATIVE: varba-he-mbas

TERMINATIVE: varba-s-siq
ESSIVE: varba-s-sa
TRANSLATIVE: varba-s-saq

COMITATIVE: varba-h-lin-na
ABESSIVE: varba-h-ton-na

plural
NOMINATIVE: varba-h-t
ACCUSATIVE: varba-h-t
INDEF. ABSOLUTIVE (PARTITIVE): varba-h-i
GENITIVE: varba-s-te
DATIVE: varba-h-sin

LOCATIVE: varba-s-te-s
ABLATIVE: varba-s-te-st
APPROXIMATIVE: varba-s-te-mbas

TERMINATIVE: varba-h-i-niq
ESSIVE: šare-d-ni
TRANSLATIVE: varba-s-te-na-q

COMITATIVE: varba-s-te-lin-na
ABESSIVE: varba-s-te-ton-na

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 02 Feb 2019 12:35

There are too "meta-conjugations".

Historically the verbs of 1st conjugation had an odd number of syllables.
Historically the verbs of 2nd conjugation had an even number of syllables.


1st Conjugation

Present sg3 and pl3 are both -b - word-finally devoiced [p]
Past: sg1 and sg2 have Past Marker -si; other persons -s
Sg3 and sg3 are always alike in 1st conjugation

Monosyllabic

saraq 'to arrive, to become'
Present
sg1 sa
sg2 sad
sg3 sab
pl1 sam
pl2 sat
pl3 sab

Past
sg1 sasi
sg2 sasid
sg3 sas
pl1sasme
pl2 saste
pl3 sas


Contraction verbs that historically have three-syllabic stems

*palađa => pala: => paloa => palo: => palo

sg1 palo
sg2 palod
sg3 palob
pl1 palom
pl2 palot
pl3 palovd [päloft]

sg1 pałasi
sg2 pałasid
sg3 pałas
pl1pałasme
pl2 pałaste
pl3 pałasd


2nd conjugation
1st person form can have either -a or -e. 3rd person form always has -u.
The a or e is the original stem vowel (though some verbs with -u [or -o that first became -u]as their stem vowel have analogically changed it to -a or -e). The -u derives from -avi or -evi that appeared with bisyllabic stems in Proto-Finnic. (avi => aw => u, evi => ew => u)

The past has -i in 1st person and zero in 3rd person. -i is the original Finnic past marker. In 3rd person it has elided.

kandaraq 'to bear'
Present
sg1 kanda
sg2 kandad
sg3 kandu
pl1 kandam
pl2 kandat
pl3 kandud

Past
sg1 kandi
sg2 kandid
sg3 kand
pl1 kandime
pl2 kandit
pl3 kandt [kant]

Many verbs that have PF *k - develops to g in the strong grade and ∅ in the weak grade - their stem are synchonically monosyllabic but part of 2nd conjugation.
tedoq 'to do/make'
sg1 te
sg2 ted
sg3 teu
pl1 tem
pl2 tet
pl3 teud

sg1 tegi
sg2 tegid
sg3 teg
pl1 tegim
pl2 tegit
pl3 tegt


Mixed conjugations
Some verbs forms their sg3 and pl3 Present with -b that attaches to the consonant stem. The other persons are formed after the 2nd conjugation.
mendaq 'to go'
sg1 mene
sg2 mened
sg3 menb
pl1 menem
pl2 tened
pl3 menb

sg1 meni
sg2 menid
sg3 men
pl1 menim
pl2 menid
pl3 ment
Last edited by Omzinesý on 03 May 2019 23:07, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 28 Apr 2019 10:27

I'm changing the sound changes a bit

1. All unstressed /o/s merge with /u/s. That happens in Estonian too.
o [-stress] => u

2. All long /a:/s become /o/ (through /o:/).
a [+long] => o

3. Nouns ending in /u/, both original /u/ and earlier /o/, have Genitive in /o/ which is analogy with i-e nouns.

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 03 May 2019 23:28

The passive

Miršian passive differs from those of Finnish and Estonian in that it agrees the number of its subject. Syntactically it also is more subjectlike than its counterparts.

Code: Select all

           singular  plural 
Present    -taš      -tašt
Past       -taś      -taśt
Finnic passive is explained as a kind of middle-voice form of a causativized verb.
*teke-ttä-k-sen
do-CAUS-PRS-sg3
'Is being done.'

In Finnish it eds up to "tehdään" and in Estonian to "tehtakse".

Miršian ends up to "tehtaš" where š is an irregular result from /ks/.
It has also gained a plural "tehtašt analogical with plural forms of many active verbs.

Its past form derives from:

*teke-ttä-j-sen
do-CAUS-PST-sg3
'Was being done.'

Miršian ends up to "tehdaś" for singular and "tehdaśt" for plural, which are irregular developments from /js/.

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 09 Aug 2019 21:20

The terminative will be
-nk from *-nik

The approximative will be
-mp from *-mba-s

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 11 Aug 2019 16:26

The newest version of the case paradigm.
ćeli 'language/tong' (Finnish kieli, Estonian keel)

Singular

Code: Select all

NOM	ćeli
GEN/ACC	ćele
DAT	ćelel		<= ćele-le (old allative) 

LOC	ćeles
ABL	ćelet		<= ćele-sta (old elative)
APPR	ćelemp		<= ćele-mba-s (old comparative lative) 
TERM	ćelenk		<= ćele-ni-k (Estonian [i]keeleni[/i]) 

TRANSL	ćeleš		<= ćele-ksi (sporadically: ks => ʃ)
COM	ćelelzeš	<= ćele-llise-ksi
ABESS	ćeletomš	<= ćele-toma-ksi
Plural

Code: Select all

NOM/ACC	ćeled
GEN	ćelede
DAT	ćelil

LOC	ćelis
ABL	ćelit
APPR	ćelimp
TERM	ćelink 

TRANSL	ćeliš
COM	ćelelziš
ABESS	ćeletomiš


kal 'fish' (again)
The problem with the a-declension is that in Finnic usually rather the i of the i-declension is elided that the a.
Singular

Code: Select all

NOM	kal	
GEN/ACC	kala	
DAT	kalal	

LOC	kalas	
ABL	kalat	
APPR	kalamp	
TERM	kalank	

TRANSL	kalaš	
COM	kalalzeš	
ABESS	kalatomš	
Plural

Code: Select all

NOM/ACC	kalad	
GEN	kalde	
DAT	kaldel

LOC	kaldes	
ABL	kaldes	
APPR	kaldemp	
TERM	kaldenk	

TRANSL	kaldeš	
COM	kalalziš	
ABESS	kalatomiš	

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by eldin raigmore » 12 Aug 2019 07:49

Omzinesý wrote:
09 Aug 2019 21:20
The terminative will be
-nk from *-nik

The approximative will be
-mp from *-mba-s
Are terminative and approximative:
Aspects? Or
Moods? Or
Cases? Or
Something else?

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Re: Miršian - a Finnic conlang

Post by Omzinesý » 12 Aug 2019 08:42

eldin raigmore wrote:
12 Aug 2019 07:49
Omzinesý wrote:
09 Aug 2019 21:20
The terminative will be
-nk from *-nik

The approximative will be
-mp from *-mba-s
Are terminative and approximative:
Aspects? Or
Moods? Or
Cases? Or
Something else?
They are noun cases, in the above paradigm.

Approximative mean "towards" and Terminative "into, as far as". The lang distinguishes the semantic space of goal that way. Because there is no general goal case, I suppose Terminative is the goal case in practice.
Of course, the distinction is aspectual.

(1) Mene kaupungamp. 'I am going to(wards) the town.'
(2) Mene kaupungank. 'I will go (as far as) to the town.'

(3) Istu tolamp. 'I am sitting down on the chair.'
(4) Istu tolank. 'I will sit down on the chair.'
(5) Istu tolas. 'I am sitting on the chair.'

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