An r-Turkic conlang in eastern Hungary/Transylvania?

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sangi39
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Re: An r-Turkic conlang in eastern Hungary/Transylvania?

Post by sangi39 » 05 Feb 2019 19:31

Zythros Jubi wrote:
31 Jan 2019 19:23
I'm not sure how come Hungarian orthography uses <s sz> for /S s/
I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that early on, <s> was used for both /ʃ/ and /ʒ/ while <z> was used for both /s/ and /z/, and it looks like that formed the basis for systems which tried to distinguish all four phonemes (IIRC, there was one that indicated /s/ and /ʒ/ by means of an acute accent or the apostrophe-like diacritic found in Czech). Eventually it settled on <s> indicating a postalveolar and <z> indicating an alveolar, as in the original system, and then the "opposite" character was used to indicate a change in voicing, i.e. <zs> is "the voiced <s>" and <sz> is "the voiceless <z>".
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

Zythros Jubi
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Re: An r-Turkic conlang in eastern Hungary/Transylvania?

Post by Zythros Jubi » 06 Feb 2019 16:15

I haven't decided the language's name yet; there are following choices:
a. *oːn + *ogur "10 tribes"
b. *siaːrɨɡ + *ogur "white/yellow tribe"
c. other suggestions?

Zythros Jubi
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Re: An r-Turkic conlang in eastern Hungary/Transylvania?

Post by Zythros Jubi » 10 Feb 2019 16:45

The conlang is called Ongor (from Onogur) for the time; I'm not sure what suffix to add to form the name of language, like -la in Chuvash.
A short vowel ê/o/ö are often dropped when it occurs in the final closed syllable when preceded by a suffix; partly due to initial stress and partly Saxon influence, such a vowel is pronounced as a schwa in unstressed syllables:

3. Front unrounded vowel harmony with consonant ending
kech 'night'
Singular Plural
Nom. kech kezyer
Acc. kezyi kezyeri
Gen. kezyên kezyerên
Dat. kezye kezyere
Abl. kechten kezyerden
Loc. kechte kezyerde
Com. (comitative) kechpen kezyerben

Possessive forms:
Singular Plural
1sg. kezyêm kezyêmer
1pl. kezyêvêr kezyêvrer
2sg. kezyên kezyêger
2pl. kezyêr kezyêrer
3 kezyi kezyiser


k-stem (-VCk)
jêgek 'cow'
Singular Plural
Nom. jêgek jêgeher
Acc. jêgehi jêgeheri
Gen. jêgehên jêgeherên
Dat. jêgehe jêgehere
Abl. jêgekten jêgeherden
Loc. jêgekte jêgeherde
Com. jêgekpen jêgeherben

Possessive forms:
Singular Plural
1sg. jêgehêm jêgehêmer
1pl. jêgehêvêr jêgehêvrer
2sg. jêgehên jêgehêger
2pl. jêgehêr jêgehêrer
3 jêgehi jêgehisar


2. Front unrounded VH with vowel ending

enne 'mother'
Singular Plural
Nom. enne enneer
Acc. enneni enneeri
Gen. enneen enneeren
Dat. ennene enneere
Abl. enneren enneerden
Loc. ennere enneerde
Com. enneben enneerben

Possessive forms:
Singular Plural
1sg. ennem ennemer
1pl. ennevêr ennevrer
2sg. ennen enneger
2pl. ennenêr ennenêrer
3 ennej ennejer

3. Front rounded VH with consonant ending

köl 'lake'
Singular Plural
Nom. köl köler
Acc. köli köleri
Gen. kölön kölerên
Dat. köle kölere
Abl. kölden kölerden
Loc. kölde kölerde
Com. kölben kölerben

Possessive forms:
Singular Plural
1sg. kölöm kölömer
1pl. kölövör kölövrer
2sg. kölön kölöger
2pl. kölör kölönörer
3 köli köleer

4. Front rounded VH with vowel ending
työlki 'fox'
Singular Plural
Nom. työlki työlkiir
Acc. työlköni työlkiiri
Gen. työlkiin työlkiirên
Dat. työlköne työlkiire
Abl. työlkören työlkiirden
Loc. työlköre työlkiirde
Com. työlkiben* työlkiirben
*This case evolved from a postposition *bilen, so it was exempted from vowel reduction.

Possessive forms:
Singular Plural
1sg. työlkim työlkimer
1pl. työlkivêr työlkivrer
2sg. työlkin työlkiger
2pl. työlkinêr työlkinêrer
3 työlkii työlkeer

There are other case-like markers like -sêr/-sor/-sör 'without' and -scên/-scon/-scön/-zyên/-zyon/-zyön 'for; because of'; the former behaves like a conventional case, but the latter behaves like comitative.
Last edited by Zythros Jubi on 05 Mar 2019 07:51, edited 1 time in total.

Zythros Jubi
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Re: An r-Turkic conlang in eastern Hungary/Transylvania?

Post by Zythros Jubi » 17 Feb 2019 07:15

II. Pronoun
1. Personal pronouns
Personal pronouns in Ongor decline like nouns, except for the nominative form, which is suppletive.
1st singular
Nom bi
Acc meni
Gen menên
Dat mege
Abl menden
Loc mende
Com menben

2nd singular
Nom si
Acc seni
Gen senên
Dat sege
Abl senden
Loc sende
Com senben

3rd singular
Nom van
Acc ani
Gen anon
Dat aga
Abl andan
Loc anda
Com anban

1st plural
Nom bêr
Acc bêri
Gen bêrên
Dat bêre
Abl bêrden
Loc bêrde
Com bêrben

2nd plural
Nom sêr
Acc sêri
Gen sêrên
Dat sêre
Abl sêrden
Loc sêrde
Com sêrben

3rd plural
Nom vanar
Acc anari
Gen anaron
Dat anara
Abl anardan
Loc anarda
Com anarban
Last edited by Zythros Jubi on 05 Mar 2019 09:50, edited 2 times in total.

Zythros Jubi
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Re: An r-Turkic conlang in eastern Hungary/Transylvania?

Post by Zythros Jubi » 05 Mar 2019 09:49

2. Demonstrative Pronouns
Proximal singular
Nom mu
Acc moni
Gen monon
Dat moga
Abl mondan
Loc monda
Com monban

plural
Nom molar
Acc molari
Gen molaron
Dat molara
Abl molardan
Loc molarda
Com molarban

Distal singular
Nom va
Acc vali
Gen valon
Dat vala
Abl valdan
Loc valda
Com valban

plural
Nom valar
Acc valari
Gen valaron
Dat valara
Abl valardan
Loc valarda
Com valarban

When used as an attributive, the pronoun is not changed by case (by number only), and occurs with an -l suffix as mol and val.
e.g. mu chascka = this cup, va maachka = that cat; mu chasckaar = these cups, va maachkaar = those cats; mol chascka = this is a cup, val maachka = that is a cat; mol chasckaar = these are cups, val maachkaar = those are cats.

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