Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

A forum for all topics related to constructed languages
User avatar
DesEsseintes
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 4581
Joined: 31 Mar 2013 13:16

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes » 27 Apr 2018 03:45

k1234567890y wrote:
26 Apr 2018 17:26
nasals: /m mˠ mʲ nˠ nʲ nʷ ŋ ŋʲ ŋʷ/
plosives: /p ɓ pˠ ɓˠ pʲ ɓʲ tˠ tˠʼ tʲ tʲʼ tʷ tʷʼ k kʼ kʲ kʲʼ kʷ kʷʼ/
resonants: /w rˠ rʲ rʷ lˠ lʲ lʷ j ɰ/

vowels: /a ə ɨ/, with a great variety of allophones

syllable: (C)V(C), all words end with a consonant in the underlying form.

note: velar consonants are inherently velarized; labial consonants are inherently labialized; /j/ is inherently palatalized

allophones of vowels:

underlying: /a ə ɨ/

Cˠ_Cˠ : /ɑ: ʌ: ɯ:/
Cˠ_Cʲ : /ɑi ʌi ɯi/
Cˠ_Cʷ : /ɑu ʌu ɯu/

Cʲ_Cˠ : /ɛ e i/
Cʲ_Cʲ : /ɛ: e: i:/
Cʲ_Cʷ : /ɶ: ø: y:/

Cʷ_Cˠ : /ɔ o u/
Cʷ_Cʲ : /ɶ ø y/
Cʷ_Cʷ : /ɔ: o: u:/
Lovely! Now give it triconsonantal roots for the win. [:D]

User avatar
k1234567890y
runic
runic
Posts: 3055
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
Contact:

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by k1234567890y » 27 Apr 2018 08:07

DesEsseintes wrote:
27 Apr 2018 03:45
k1234567890y wrote:
26 Apr 2018 17:26
nasals: /m mˠ mʲ nˠ nʲ nʷ ŋ ŋʲ ŋʷ/
plosives: /p ɓ pˠ ɓˠ pʲ ɓʲ tˠ tˠʼ tʲ tʲʼ tʷ tʷʼ k kʼ kʲ kʲʼ kʷ kʷʼ/
resonants: /w rˠ rʲ rʷ lˠ lʲ lʷ j ɰ/

vowels: /a ə ɨ/, with a great variety of allophones

syllable: (C)V(C), all words end with a consonant in the underlying form.

note: velar consonants are inherently velarized; labial consonants are inherently labialized; /j/ is inherently palatalized

allophones of vowels:

underlying: /a ə ɨ/

Cˠ_Cˠ : /ɑ: ʌ: ɯ:/
Cˠ_Cʲ : /ɑi ʌi ɯi/
Cˠ_Cʷ : /ɑu ʌu ɯu/

Cʲ_Cˠ : /ɛ e i/
Cʲ_Cʲ : /ɛ: e: i:/
Cʲ_Cʷ : /ɶ: ø: y:/

Cʷ_Cˠ : /ɔ o u/
Cʷ_Cʲ : /ɶ ø y/
Cʷ_Cʷ : /ɔ: o: u:/
Lovely! Now give it triconsonantal roots for the win. [:D]
uncertain lol
...

User avatar
Frislander
runic
runic
Posts: 3492
Joined: 14 May 2016 18:47
Location: The North

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » 28 Apr 2018 12:05

/p pʲ t t͡ʃ k ʔ/
/m mʲ n ɲ ŋ/
/β βʲ ɾ j ɣ/

/i~ɨ/
/e~ə o/
/a/

Central vowels are fronted adjacent to palatal consonants.

Syllable structure is CV(ʔ).

Jampot911
hieroglyphic
hieroglyphic
Posts: 31
Joined: 25 Dec 2016 18:13
Location: Elgin, Scotland

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Jampot911 » 28 Apr 2018 15:51

Frislander wrote:
28 Apr 2018 12:05
/i~ɨ/
/e~ə o/
/a/

Central vowels are fronted adjacent to palatal consonants.
This phonemic inventory seems really interesting (I may just have to adapt/steal it for myself, if that's alright with you 😁). May I just ask whether you intended for the fronting rule to occur next to the palatalised bilabials as well?
What can I say? I like making stuff up.

Lofdǣdum sceal in mǣgþa gehƿǣre man geþeon.

User avatar
k1234567890y
runic
runic
Posts: 3055
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
Contact:

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by k1234567890y » 28 Apr 2018 16:10

Jampot911 wrote:
28 Apr 2018 15:51
Frislander wrote:
28 Apr 2018 12:05
/i~ɨ/
/e~ə o/
/a/

Central vowels are fronted adjacent to palatal consonants.
This phonemic inventory seems really interesting (I may just have to adapt/steal it for myself, if that's alright with you 😁). May I just ask whether you intended for the fronting rule to occur next to the palatalised bilabials as well?
uncertain about the allophone parts, but the arrangement /a e i o/ is attested in natural languages.

http://www.incatena.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=41583 < here there is a list of vowel systems in natural languages.
...

User avatar
Frislander
runic
runic
Posts: 3492
Joined: 14 May 2016 18:47
Location: The North

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » 28 Apr 2018 21:47

Jampot911 wrote:
28 Apr 2018 15:51
Frislander wrote:
28 Apr 2018 12:05
/i~ɨ/
/e~ə o/
/a/

Central vowels are fronted adjacent to palatal consonants.
This phonemic inventory seems really interesting (I may just have to adapt/steal it for myself, if that's alright with you 😁). May I just ask whether you intended for the fronting rule to occur next to the palatalised bilabials as well?
That's what I meant, yes.

Birdlang
greek
greek
Posts: 749
Joined: 25 Dec 2014 20:17
Location: Virginia

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » 01 May 2018 01:48

I made an inventory using all 26 English letters.
/m n ŋ ɲ/ m n q j
/p ᵐb t nd k ᵑg/ p b t d k g
/f v s z [θ ð] ɣ h/ f v s z s z c h
/w l r j ɰ/ w l r y x
/i u e o a/ i u e o a
A more digraph one would be
m n ng ny
p b t d k g
f v s/th z/dh gh h
w l r y wh
i u e o a
More diacritics would be
m n ŋ ɲ
p b t d k g
f v s/ϑ z/δ ǥ h
w l r j ẃ
i u e o a
The allophones happen before triphthongs or diphthongs. Which would be /ae ao ei eu oe ou iae iao/ ae ao ee eo oe oo iae iao
Other language I’m working on, minimal
/m n ŋ p t tˀ k ʔ f ɕ x h w ɽ j i ɨ u e o ə a/ m n g p t ƭ k ɂ f s h v r y i ɩ u e o ə a
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ

User avatar
sangi39
moderator
moderator
Posts: 3264
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 01:53
Location: North Yorkshire, UK

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by sangi39 » 01 May 2018 05:16

Birdlang wrote:
01 May 2018 01:48
/m n ŋ p t tˀ k ʔ f ɕ x h w ɽ j i ɨ u e o ə a/ m n g p t ƭ k ɂ f s h v r y i ɩ u e o ə a
Why not something like:

/m n ŋ/ <m n g>
/p t tˀ k ʔ/ <p t d k q>
/f ɕ x h/ <f c x h>
/w ɽ j/ <w r j>

/i ɨ u/ <i y u>
/e ə o/ <e ə o>
/a/ <a>

...?

Cuts down on the use of characters not found on many keyboards in favour of characters that you haven't use yet, while still making sense (well, at least, for example, <q> for the glottal stop is attested, as is <g> for the velar nasal, just not in the same language, as far as I know).
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

wintiver
sinic
sinic
Posts: 219
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 03:37

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by wintiver » 03 May 2018 18:33

sangi39 wrote:
01 May 2018 05:16
Birdlang wrote:
01 May 2018 01:48
/m n ŋ p t tˀ k ʔ f ɕ x h w ɽ j i ɨ u e o ə a/ m n g p t ƭ k ɂ f s h v r y i ɩ u e o ə a
Why not something like:

/m n ŋ/ <m n g>
/p t tˀ k ʔ/ <p t d k q>
/f ɕ x h/ <f c x h>
/w ɽ j/ <w r j>

/i ɨ u/ <i y u>
/e ə o/ <e ə o>
/a/ <a>

...?

Cuts down on the use of characters not found on many keyboards in favour of characters that you haven't use yet, while still making sense (well, at least, for example, <q> for the glottal stop is attested, as is <g> for the velar nasal, just not in the same language, as far as I know).
I like the orthography for it. But the one thing that glares at me is the glottalized voiceless alveolar stop /tˀ/. It seems quite out of place. Which, in fairness, can totally happen IRL I'm sure. But it feels sort of thrown in. I'd expect perhaps a series of retroflexes? Idk.

But, I do like it.

wintiver
sinic
sinic
Posts: 219
Joined: 09 Oct 2012 03:37

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by wintiver » 03 May 2018 19:02

I've been making strides with a conlang but I was thinking I would like to have some of its neighboring languages should be quite dissimilar to it.

I have a strong urge to make a language with many series of stops, I was thinking of going to as many as 5 series of stops, a basic 3 (maybe 4) vowel system with length contrast.

I don't know how naturalistic this is though.

Here's my thought on the basic phonemic inventory.

Nasals m n ɲ ŋ
Voiced Stops b d ɟ g
Unaspirated Stops p t c k
Aspirated Stops pʰ tʰ cʰ kʰ
Ejectives pʼ tʼ cʼ kʼ
Pre-Nasal Clicks ᵑǃ ᵑǁ
Aspirated Clicks ǃʰ ǁʰ
Fricatives s x h
Trills r
Approximants w j

(Maybe Prenasalized Implosives ᵐɓ ⁿɗ ᶮʄ ᵑɠ)

Short Vowels ɪ ʊ ɛ ɑ
Long Vowels iː uː eː ɑː

For the series of stops I was also debating on having a pre-nasal series. Then, as I kept pronouncing pre-nasal voiced stops they became implosivized, which was weird. So I was debating on potentially a pre-nasalized implosive series as well. That may be a bit kitchen-sinky though. Opinons are welcome if this basic sketch warrants any.

Also, potentially I'd want a basic High/Low Tone system too.

Birdlang
greek
greek
Posts: 749
Joined: 25 Dec 2014 20:17
Location: Virginia

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » 11 May 2018 00:51

A different protolang
/m n ŋ/ m n ŋ or m n ng
/p pʰ t tʰ k kʰ ʔ/ b p d t g k q or b p d t g k j
/f s ʂ ʐ~ɻ ɕ ç x h/ f s z r x j ĥ h or f s sh r x xy h xh
/l j ɥ w/ l y ÿ w or l y~i ÿ~ü w~u
/ɬ ʎ̝̊ ʟ̝̊/ Ɨ ⱡ ɫ or lh ly ll

/i y ʉ ɯ u e ø ɵ ɤ o ɛ œ ɞ ʌ ɔ a ɶ ɒ̈ ɑ ɒ/ plus length i ü ů ï u é ö ô e o è õ ø ŏ ò a ơ ä ɑ ɒ plus macron or i ü û ï u é ö ô e o è ó ø ô ò a ē ō â å plus double vowels
/Ṽ/ Vƞ or Vnh
I’m trying to think of how I could evolve different languages from these. The first one is more diacritic laden and the second is more Pinyin-influenced. I’m making this language for a humanoid species.
My other protolang I’m working on
/m ɱ n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ/ <m mv n ṇ ň ŋ ŋq>
/p b p̪ b̪ t d t̪ d̪ ʈ ɖ c ɟ k g q ɢ ʡ ʔ/ <p b pv bv t d ŧ đ ṭ ḍ ť ď k g kġ gġ x q>
/ɸ β f v θ~ʂ ð~ʐ s z ʃ ʒ ɕ ʑ x ɣ ʁ ħ ʕ h ɦ/ <f ḇ fv ḇv ṣ ẓ s z ş z̧ š ž ḵ ḡ ḡġ ħ c h ḫ>
/ʋ ɹ l j/ <v r l j>
/ɢ̆/ <ġ>
/ɖɽ ɽr/ <ḍr dr>
/ɭ̝̊ ɬʲː/ <ḷ lľ>
/ʎ̆ ʟ̆/ <ľ ł>

/iː yː uː ɪ ʏ ʊ eː øː oː œ ɔ æː ɐ ɑː ɒ̃ æ̃/ <ii yy uu i y u e øø oo ø o æ a aa ǫ ą>
/V̤ V̰ Vˀ Vˁ Vʰ Vʲ V˞ Vʷ/ <Vh Vḫ Vq Vc Vħ Vj Vr Vv>
Thanks shimobaatar for helping me romanize it. Nice to see how you used the Somali c for the voiced pharyngeal fricative.
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ

Porphyrogenitos
sinic
sinic
Posts: 249
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 08:01
Location: Buffalo, NY

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Porphyrogenitos » 18 May 2018 08:35

A diachronic vowel thing inspired by the Southern American Vowel Shift:

i iː > i ei̯
e eː > e ai̯
a aː > a au̯
o oː > o eː
u uː > u iː
ai̯ au̯ > aː oː
oi̯ eu̯ > uː ou̯

User avatar
eldin raigmore
korean
korean
Posts: 6375
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 19:38
Location: SouthEast Michigan

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by eldin raigmore » 18 May 2018 23:11

Porphyrogenitos wrote:
18 May 2018 08:35
A diachronic vowel thing inspired by the Southern American Vowel Shift:
What?!? We Southrons have _always_ pronounced vowels exactly as they _should_ be pronounced!!




😏

shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 11590
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by shimobaatar » 19 May 2018 02:30

Porphyrogenitos wrote:
18 May 2018 08:35
A diachronic vowel thing inspired by the Southern American Vowel Shift:

i iː > i ei̯
e eː > e ai̯
a aː > a au̯
o oː > o eː
u uː > u iː
ai̯ au̯ > aː oː
oi̯ eu̯ > uː ou̯
I really like this!

Birdlang
greek
greek
Posts: 749
Joined: 25 Dec 2014 20:17
Location: Virginia

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » 20 May 2018 23:46

Some quick sketches
Lituko
/m n ŋ p t k ʔ f s ʃ h l w j i u ə ɑ ɒ/ m n g p t k q f s x h l w y i u e a o
Toj
/n t k ʔ s ʂ h ɺ j i ɯ e ɤ a/ n t k ' s c h r j i u e o a
Baceqoki
/m n ŋ ɲ p pʰ t tʰ c cʰ k kʰ ʔ f v s z ʃ ʒ ç ʝ x ɣ h ɦ l ɹ w j ɾ ɬ ʎ i ɨ u e o ə a ɑ/ m n ng gn b p d t j c g k q f v s z š ž ś ź x ġ h gh l ŗ w y r ł gl i ı u e o ė a ȧ
Moñño
/m n ɲ b t d k ʔ f s z ʃ ʒ x ɣ ħ ʕ h l w j ɾ i u ɘ ɛ ɔ ə ɑ/ m n ñ b t d k q f s z š ž ḫ ǥ ħ ƣ l w y r i u ē e o ā a
Dot Island language
/m n ŋ p t k ʔ ɕ h w ɾ i iː u uː e eː o oː ɑ ɑː ɑi ɑu ei eu oi ou/ m n g p t k ʻ s h w r i ī u ū e ē o ō a ā ae ao ei eu oe ou
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ

Birdlang
greek
greek
Posts: 749
Joined: 25 Dec 2014 20:17
Location: Virginia

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Birdlang » 21 May 2018 00:45

wintiver wrote:
03 May 2018 18:33
sangi39 wrote:
01 May 2018 05:16
Birdlang wrote:
01 May 2018 01:48
/m n ŋ p t tˀ k ʔ f ɕ x h w ɽ j i ɨ u e o ə a/ m n g p t ƭ k ɂ f s h v r y i ɩ u e o ə a
Why not something like:

/m n ŋ/ <m n g>
/p t tˀ k ʔ/ <p t d k q>
/f ɕ x h/ <f c x h>
/w ɽ j/ <w r j>

/i ɨ u/ <i y u>
/e ə o/ <e ə o>
/a/ <a>

...?

Cuts down on the use of characters not found on many keyboards in favour of characters that you haven't use yet, while still making sense (well, at least, for example, <q> for the glottal stop is attested, as is <g> for the velar nasal, just not in the same language, as far as I know).
I like the orthography for it. But the one thing that glares at me is the glottalized voiceless alveolar stop /tˀ/. It seems quite out of place. Which, in fairness, can totally happen IRL I'm sure. But it feels sort of thrown in. I'd expect perhaps a series of retroflexes? Idk.

But, I do like it.
The glottalized stop came from a retroflex t.
Ꭓꭓ Ʝʝ Ɬɬ Ɦɦ Ɡɡ Ɥɥ Ɫɫ Ɽɽ Ɑɑ Ɱɱ Ɐɐ Ɒɒ Ɓɓ Ɔɔ Ɖɖ Ɗɗ Əə Ɛɛ Ɠɠ Ɣɣ Ɯɯ Ɲɲ Ɵɵ Ʀʀ Ʃʃ Ʈʈ Ʊʊ Ʋʋ Ʒʒ Ꞵꞵ Ʉʉ Ʌʌ Ŋŋ Ɂɂ Ɪɪ Ææ Øø Ð𠌜 Ɜɜ Ǝɘ

User avatar
Frislander
runic
runic
Posts: 3492
Joined: 14 May 2016 18:47
Location: The North

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander » 25 May 2018 16:22

/p t k k͡p/
/t͡s~t͡ʃ/
/s~ʃ h~ç/
/ɾ ɣ~j w/

/i ɪ~ɨ o~u/
/ɛ~æ ɑ/

The main difference between /i/ and /ɨ/ is the presence vs. absence respectively on a preceding consonant. The consonants which show this most obviously are /t͡s~t͡ʃ s~ʃ h~ç ɣ~j/, where the former occurs before /ɨ/ and the latter before /i/ and /ɛ/. Additionally there is a tone distinction on vowels, high vs. low.

Syllable structure is CV(s, h, ɾ). Additionally there are some cluster-resolution processes that occur when certain consonants come into contact. Firstly /i/ and /ɨ/ undergo metathesis with /h/ when they precede it, and are deleted when between a single permissible coda consonant and a following consonant when they have a low tone. Secondly whenever /h/ would occur after another consonant/cluster, it is deleted and a following low-toned vowel becomes high. Finally /ɨ/ and /i/ are deleted before another vowel, however /i/ causes /ɑ ɛ ɨ/ to front to /ɛ i i/ respectively. Finally if a consonantal prefix would result in a word-initial cluster an /ɨ/ is inserted to break it up. This can lead to interestin contrasts, e.g. /ɾ-kɑn/ > /rɨkɑn/ but /r-hɑn/ > /ɾɑ́n/ and /si-hɑn/ > /sɛ́n/.

User avatar
LinguoFranco
greek
greek
Posts: 456
Joined: 20 Jul 2016 17:49
Location: U.S.

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguoFranco » 29 May 2018 20:16

Here's a vowel system I quickly came up with, and I want to see how naturalistic it is.

/a e̞ ə i o̞/

I know /u/ is pretty widely attested, especially in a five vowel system, but I'm trying out the Nahuatl vowel system, just with /ə/ added.

shimobaatar
korean
korean
Posts: 11590
Joined: 12 Jul 2013 23:09
Location: PA → IN

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by shimobaatar » 29 May 2018 20:58

LinguoFranco wrote:
29 May 2018 20:16
Here's a vowel system I quickly came up with, and I want to see how naturalistic it is.

/a e̞ ə i o̞/

I know /u/ is pretty widely attested, especially in a five vowel system, but I'm trying out the Nahuatl vowel system, just with /ə/ added.
Looks fine to me.

User avatar
LinguoFranco
greek
greek
Posts: 456
Joined: 20 Jul 2016 17:49
Location: U.S.

Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by LinguoFranco » 04 Jun 2018 02:49

Here's a new phoneme inventory I've compiled. The vowel system is based on Abkhaz, but I tried to do my own thing with the consonants. I like it for the most part, but it feels incomplete, like I'm missing something, or it may just need some more work. I don't know if I should treat palatals as official phonemes in the language, or occur as a part of sound change. The language makes heavy use of palatalization and labialization. I don't know if the affricates or /ɕ/ should also have palatalized versions, since you could argue they are technically already palatalized.

I was also going to have /k/ be a coda, and it still does occur as a word-final coda, but is altered when it precedes /t/, so a word like /mak.ta/ becomes /mat.ta/

/i~ə~u/
/e~a~o/
/m n ɲ/
/b t d c ɟ k g/
/s z ɕ ɦ/
/j w~ʋ ʍ r l ʟ/
/t͡ɕ d͡ʑ/

Post Reply